[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

[Darrigan]

I would like to have the dutch in with the germans(the problem is what then to do with the Frisians?)

I personally always mod the Frisians in the same group as the English, and the Dutch in the same group as the Germans. Based on this overview I learned back in high school:

Germanic languages

1) North-Germanic (Scandinavian) group
+ Swedish
+ Danish
+ Norwegian
+ Icelandic

2) West-Germanic group
-- a) Continental West-Germanic
-- + German
-- + Dutch >> Daughter language: South-African

-- b) Ingvaeonic
-- + English
-- + Frisian

3) East-Germanic group
[Extinct: Gothic, ...]

Since I learned this in high school, I'm quite sure this is all pretty basic. It's probably way more complicated than that, but it gives a nice, simple overview. Maybe you can do something with that information?

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

Wish Italy, even in vanilla, had its own Empire tag for Italy/Sicily/Venice/Latnium Kingdom tags.

Dutch is kind of the midground between German and English, so I'm not sure which it should fall into.

 

[Ruwaard]

Wish Italy, even in vanilla, had its own Empire tag for Italy/Sicily/Venice/Latnium Kingdom tags.

Dutch is kind of the midground between German and English, so I'm not sure which it should fall into.

As far as I know in this mod (at least the vanilla version of this mod), there is an empire tier title in Italy, though it is named a king (name_tier = king), which can be edited by modding (remove or disable this line in the landed_titles file of this mod).

 

[Darrigan]

Wish Italy, even in vanilla, had its own Empire tag for Italy/Sicily/Venice/Latnium Kingdom tags.

Dutch is kind of the midground between German and English, so I'm not sure which it should fall into.

I don't think Dutch is in between English and German. In my opinion, it is much closer to German than it is to English.

 

[sir Eyeball]

I have asked and gotten permission from Korbah to include his mod, but it will probably only be the parts of Egypt, Nubia and Abyssiana. Im not a big fan of a lot going on in and south of Sahara in this game, so Im not looking to up the amount of provinces there to a big degree(but they will get redrawn someway or the other). For the Sahara and below im leaning more towards asking Arko if I may use his setup(but I better finish up the Fance I stole from him first)

yesterday I started working on a little secret surprise for the next update, if(invovles a lot of topolegy modding and I hate working with that) it works you will be probably be pleased

This sounds interesting I always felt Africa was a bit undeveloped for such an interesting region especially concerning Crusades and the Muslim world. The muslim used this part of Africa for troops and slaves a part not easily shown in this game where economy takes a backseat and Vassal states does not exist.
Is the surprise the reinstating of Lapland:laugh: Nah just janking your chain I look forward to seeing it though I don't think it makes it to the next update of TpTT. God work so far and happy Modding.

 

[Aasmul]

I personally always mod the Frisians in the same group as the English, and the Dutch in the same group as the Germans. Based on this overview I learned back in high school:





Since I learned this in high school, I'm quite sure this is all pretty basic. It's probably way more complicated than that, but it gives a nice, simple overview. Maybe you can do something with that information?

sure its close to what I had in mind(the goths is perfectly alive in 1060 though and they are northgermanic(actually would make more sense just calling the north germanic group for gothic, the whole idea of north "germaninc" is somthing thats alwaysed puzzeld me), my big worry was if the dutch and frisians could be seperated. I will move the dutch in next edition then.

for the cultures there is a couple of splits that im hopeing/planning can be implemented(priority from the top).

the germans to be split in five:
Sachsish, Bayrisch, Schwäbisch, Fränkisch(or maybe Rheinsh?) and Thüringisch

The russians in 5-6:
Slovener( Slavic people from Novgorod, much of the noble class in both Novogrod and Kiev was based on them)
Krivicer(Slavic people from Smolensk area )
Poljaner(Slavic People living around and west of Kiev)
Severer or Vjaticer(east of Kiev) one of them might surfice(but I haven't got a clue to which one)
Væringjar

a third candidate would be to split the Leonese from the Castillian

Wish Italy, even in vanilla, had its own Empire tag for Italy/Sicily/Venice/Latnium Kingdom tags.

Dutch is kind of the midground between German and English, so I'm not sure which it should fall into.

I don't think Dutch is in between English and German. In my opinion, it is much closer to German than it is to English.

yeah, the Angels was much closer to the Norse and the Frisians(all three could even to some degree understand each other)

 

[Keanon]

I don't think Dutch is in between English and German. In my opinion, it is much closer to German than it is to English.

Modern Dutch? Yes.

However, Culture Groups should really not be based on language, only Culture should.

English nobility to my knowledge didn't have many connections to the developing Dutch and even less to the Germans and the Culture Groups should be taken advantage of to group Europe's cultures into the blocs that interacted.


Culture itself is a way too simplified concepts in CKII and I've a lot of ideas for Patrum Terrae for developing this highly lacking part of the game, but for SWMH, I'll agree that Dutch belongs with Central Germanic and that Saxon and Frisian belong together.

 

[Aasmul]

This sounds interesting I always felt Africa was a bit undeveloped for such an interesting region especially concerning Crusades and the Muslim world. The muslim used this part of Africa for troops and slaves a part not easily shown in this game where economy takes a backseat and Vassal states does not exist.
Is the surprise the reinstating of Lapland:laugh: Nah just janking your chain I look forward to seeing it though I don't think it makes it to the next update of TpTT. God work so far and happy Modding.

I think Idib is just about to release, so I won't have time to send him more updates before. But trust me, if the little surprise works out you will be very happy(and no its not lappland):happy:

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I don't think Dutch is in between English and German. In my opinion, it is much closer to German than it is to English.

The Germanic languages, especially the Western and Central branches, are more of a continuum than clearly defined branches. Dutch is in the same grouping as German, which makes sense given that many of the northern dialects of Germany are very close to Dutch (if not actually dialects of Dutch). But as German looks more Dutch, it also looks more English as well (e.g. schiff becomes schipp; Eng: ship). Frisian, of course, is a major part of the Anglo-Frisian languages which include English, Scots and Frisian (duh). So in a lot of ways Dutch is a "middle ground".

However; I am very against splitting the cultural groups up based off of linguistics. That isn't the point, the point is to help balance the game. I believe that both Frisian and Dutch belong in the Central Germanic group (due to their ties to the HRE and the continent as a whole) while English, Anglish, Saxon, and Scots belong in the West Germanic group for the opposite reasons.

Edit: It seems Keanon has beat me to the post, but we disagree on the placement of Frisian.

 

[Keanon]

It depends a lot upon what you want to accomplish in terms of development, my line of thought was that the Frisians were very 'independent' and lived lives rather disconnected from the feudal structure of the HRE and I think the -10 relations would symbolise this well enough for a start.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

It depends a lot upon what you want to accomplish in terms of development, my line of thought was that the Frisians were very 'independent' and lived lives rather disconnected from the feudal structure of the HRE and I think the -10 relations would symbolise this well enough for a start.

But at the same time they would not welcome the English either.

 

[sir Eyeball]

I think Idib is just about to release, so I won't have time to send him more updates before. But trust me, if the little surprise works out you will be very happy(and no its not lappland):happy:

Just have to wait for the Next TpTT update then
Edit My guess is that small islands might make their way in to the map maybe(Samsø)? If I am right please do Anglesey/Inis Mon in Wales as well it was not included in the Welsh mod.

 

[Keanon]

But at the same time they would not welcome the English either.

Well, I don't think Saxon and English belong in the same culture group either, the English had far more interest in the continent than the Saxons and should imo be included with the French before any of the Germanics to reflect their almost destined historical path granted by their whole birth being a continental latin spin on the Saxons.

So my point stand that I think that Saxons and Frisians might find more common ground than the Saxons with the English and the Frisians with either Dutch, German or Danish.



Basically, I just think if a Frisian 'state' was to resurface it'd find a natural 'ally' in a 'Saxon' England, and much less so in an 'English' England.


Though of course it's hard to say and as already mentioned I really think cultures all over need a good deal work for any of these groupings to make sense.

P.S. I may very well be wrong and I'm only 'arguing' to give Aasmul more stuff to make his own decision from.

 

[sir Eyeball]

On the subject of cultures in Britain have you had a look at the Cornish mod by Knuckey it covers a very small area and still feels like it should be there for some reason?

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Well, I don't think Saxon and English belong in the same culture group either, the English had far more interest in the continent than the Saxons and should imo be included with the French before any of the Germanics to reflect their almost destined historical path granted by their whole birth being a continental latin spin on the Saxons.

So my point stand that I think that Saxons and Frisians might find more common ground than the Saxons with the English and the Frisians with either Dutch, German or Danish.



Basically, I just think if a Frisian 'state' was to resurface it'd find a natural 'ally' in a 'Saxon' England, and much less so in an 'English' England.


Though of course it's hard to say and as already mentioned I really think cultures all over need a good deal work for any of these groupings to make sense.

P.S. I may very well be wrong and I'm only 'arguing' to give Aasmul more stuff to make his own decision from.

See, I disagree. The English had very little interest in France: it was their French Kings (i.e. the Plantagenets) who were born and raised in France who had a bunch of interest and claims in France. The English people and nobles didn't particular care one war or the other. I don't hear many tales of strife between the Saxons and English (certainly the Saxons and the Normans). Converting to "English" should be a relief for a Norman conqueror, it means the end of the strife: not a tit-for-tat change.

 

[Aasmul]

Just have to wait for the Next TpTT update then
Edit My guess is that small islands might make their way in to the map maybe(Samsø)? If I am right please do Anglesey/Inis Mon in Wales as well it was not included in the Welsh mod.

Not correct, but not totally wrong either. I will see about Anglesey but I think it will be a later version(I better get the surprise and Holland done before promising more for this version).

On the subject of cultures in Britain have you had a look at the Cornish mod by Knuckey it covers a very small area and still feels like it should be there for some reason?

will ask Knucky for leave to serve his mod(that should mean that I will ask for permitance to use it(I have been reading a lot of English judgment lately and its totally gibberish:glare)

 

[sir Eyeball]

Not correct, but not totally wrong either. I will see about Anglesey but I think it will be a later version(I better get the surprise and Holland done before promising more for this version).


will ask Knucky for leave to serve his mod(that should mean that I will ask for permitance to use it(I have been reading a lot of English judgment lately and its totally gibberish:glare)

English Law is gibberish so I guess Judgement will follow along those lines tooo:laugh:

 

[Aasmul]

English Law is gibberish so I guess Judgement will follow along those lines tooo:laugh:

the language is really arcaic but the worst thing by far is all the negations they use.

 

[Aasmul]

Okay I got the surprise working( sort off), it needs a lot of polishing but it will hopefully be ready for the next version.

 

[sir Eyeball]

Okay I got the surprise working( sort off), it needs a lot of polishing but it will hopefully be ready for the next version.

Idlib hasn't posted the update for TpTT maybe you can sneak the surprise in before he does?