[MOD] SWMH 2.0  Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

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ahistorically correct

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I have a question about the 1300 bookmark (King Wenceslaus II). Fairly new to SWMH so sorry if asking the obvious of if it belongs elsewhere. Tried to play the Hungarian interregnum period, but found some missing characters and ran into other problems with one of the bigger historical events around Bohemia, Poland and Hungary, that changed whole dynasties:

Andrew III, king of Hungary, died without male heir in 1301 (his wife and daughter is missing from the game). Nobles split, two main pretendants:

1) Charles d'Anjou (469500), grandson of Mary of Hungary and son of King of Naples, supported by Croatian part of the kingdom, coronated with a provisional crown by those lords, which the Diet declared invalid, supported by Pope.

2) Wenceslaus II of Bohemia and Poland, kinsman of Andrew, on behalf of his young son Wenceslas III, betrothed to Andrew's young daughter Elizabeth of Töss (missing in game or SWMH!). Supported at first by Matthew Csák of Upper Hungary, Kőszegis and around the capital Buda, coronated as Ladislaus with Hungary's Holy Crown in 1301. Historical expose:
W.III resided in Buda 1301-1304, briefly besieged by Charles (not successfully), he nevertheless gradually lost support of the Hungarian nobles. Asked father for help, who captured Esztergom and came to Buda with an army. After negotiations WII decided it is untenable and both returned to Bohemia, leaving a governor in place but taking the crown with them to Prague.

Charles tried to invade Moravia in 1304 (unsuccessfully) with help of Rudolf of Austria. Meanwhile, Władysław (Piast) claimed Poland against W.II, who died in 1305. W.III saw he couldn't keep three kingdoms and renounced Hungary's crown, but surprisingly not to Charles, but Otto III of Bavaria, who held it till 1307. With Wenceslaus's position in Poland weakening, he was assassinated in 1306, ending the male line of Premyslid dynasty. In 1308, Charles finaly became King of Hungary proper.

Historically, it was all quite significant, as it was the turning point for three very powerful kingdoms and extinction of two important "bloodline" dynasties in the male line (Premyslids and Arpads), with much subsequent furore and several kingdoms changing hands. Hungary to Charles, who did consolidate it, Poland back to Piasts, Bohemia to Luxembourgs with later Charles IV becoming HRE (out of scope of the game) and all later to the Habsburgs and their empire.
I tried to recreate that scenario playing either as Wenceslaus II, Wenceslaus III himself with a regent or possibly as Charles.

Here the problems start:

1) Elizabeth, daughter of Andrew III and her mother are missing completely, Andrew III is unmarried in the 1300 timeline till his death, has no daughter and there is obviously no way for W. III to get elected for Hungary when Andrew dies due to game mechanics as he has no claim. Since he is still able and not old, AI will marry Andrew immediately at any game start when he is still alive and the whole thing is off. Scrolling the timeline the events do show corretly, just no way to get them with missing people and incompatible mechanics for outside claims on vacated thrones. One of the Hungarian dukes just gets the crown instead, after Andrew dies.

2) Even though the timeline shows Wenceslaus III as King of Hungary from 1301 to 1305, it is in name only since he is landless (correct, both pretendants W.III and Charles held no lands in Hungary, the powerful nobles haven't given them "even a single castle"). Cannot start game as a landless character, and cannot play as Wenceslaus II either, since Hungary gets destroyed immediately upon game start. It's history tab shows 1301.1.14 Vaclav, 1301.1.14 No Holder. It's all now just big independent dukes and Croatia, without any CBs to unite it back.

3) There is now no way to recreate it, even when starting game as W.II or W.III after 1301, since k_hungary gets destroyed immediately upon start (owner landless!) and there are no Casus Belli against the dukes or the former territory to press. I tried giving me a claim to k_hungary via console, but that didn't give me any CB, since it no longer existed. To create it, I'd need 51% land. I'd have to give me claims to all De iure duchies, but I am not sure how would that work later, with strong claims to all the duchies getting inherited by my descendants? He had claim for the crown only, not the duchies.

4) All that makes the period 1301-1305 unplayable from the perspective of those characters. Only date I am able to start as Wenceslaus III is 21 June 1305, because by then he inherits Bohemia and Poland from his father and is no longer landless. Even then, there are no competing claims on the crown of Hungary, Charles d'Anjou is away content in Naples and the dukes are easy to placate at first. Makes for a boring start with no claimants.

I know CK2 game mechanics don't cope well with interregnum periods and outside claimants, it's a game after all, not a medieval politics simulator and not every moment on the timeline can ever be supported. However, would there be anything to make that period playable? Either made into SWMH (because the 1300 W.II bookmark misses the whole Hungary episode if started at the bookmark - Andrew III lives on and marries, since his real wife is missing in-game), or if I just wanted to script it myself for fun?

Giving W.III a single county inside Hungary to keep the crown?
Charles d'Anjou as AI adventurer with goal of Hungary?
Adding some CBs to both W.III and Charles while allied with their powerful fathers, the Habsburgs and Pope for Charles and Carinthians or whoever it was for Wenceslaus? Is there even such a CB? That could perhaps work if even with Hungary shattered into duchies and Croatia (which might better represent the actual situation at the time), with all the relevant duchies allied with each other for each side and all Dalmatians with Charles and Upper Hungary and some with Wenceslaus (until 1304 or so when W.III lost their support)?

I know SWMH is mostly moving onto CK3, but perhaps this was just overlooked and there is a simple solution that could be implemented? Or again, it might need too much work, I have no idea :)

Thanks again for the whole SWMH, that really made CK2 much more enjoyable for me!
(I had to remove the respective links to any sources since it got flagged as spam, I guess due to being my first post here, oh well)
 
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Cèsar de Quart

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What the CK system can't handle at all are adventurer lords like most of Charles' ambitions, or El Cid at the 1066 start (he NEVER does anything other than being marshal to whomever wins the civil war - because the game doesn't have a mechanic whereby someone becomes an adventurer. That's why all the adventurers are in fact Duke of Jamtland and Sicily, Duke of Visby and Galicia...)

Giving W.III a single county inside Hungary to keep the crown? Charles d'Anjou as AI adventurer with goal of Hungary?
 

ahistorically correct

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What the CK system can't handle at all are adventurer lords
I see, thanks. While outside the scope of the SWMH topic (sorry, I posted it here just because of the missing Andrew's bethrothed daughter, I wondered if it was just omission or mechanics issue with SWMH historical characters at first), any way to recreate similar scenario with several outside claimants to a single crown inside CK2 mechanics? These days, I much more enjoy "ahistorical" CK2 short-plays of "but what if" based on true historical events (the whole HIP mod and SWMH help with that a lot) rather than a long-play to some boring empire blob :)
 

Isewein

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Some small suggestions regarding cultural choices: It seems odd that Surayye / Aramaic is its own completely separate cultural group, especially considering how in other cases SWMH did away precisely with such outliers. I think being at least in a common group with Mashriqi would make sense, based on cultural as well as linguistic affiliation, even if they are not exactly "Arabic" per se. Even the vanilla classification within the Byzantine group might be fine considering Armenian and Georgian are lumped in there as well, although it makes less sense for Eastern Syriacs who had few ties to the Empire.

Second, how cane Moger / proto-Hungarians are not nomadic any longer? It seems by all accounts they should be, rather than just tribal.

Then there are some strange choices of basically synonymous ethnonyms applied in different variations - how are Langobardo / Lombardo, Frensisk / Fransisk or Parsi / Parsig supposed to be distinct from each other?
 
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theKing1988

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Well as i said to you the other day. Development of SWMH is completely stopped. I was the lead modder of SWMH in CK2.

Unless something is not working as intended, i am not gonna touch it.

My fellow HIP co-mod Delnar did the Old Magyar/Hungarian split, and according to what he read on the early days of the Magyars, they don't really fit what is defined as Nomads in CK2. But then again, the border between Tribals and Nomads are poorly defined in CK2, which is probably why they scrapped Nomads altogether for the inital release of CK3.

The Cultures you mention in the bottom is (Upper) Franconian and Lower Franconian. One developed into German and the other developed into Dutch. And the other is Southern Lombard and Northern Lombard. The Southern Lombard remained much more Germanic, while the Northern Lombard became a lot more French/Latin under the rule of Charlemagne and his successors.

I will leave my reply at this, so don't be concerned that i am not responding any further to you, if you post any more about the topic. As i said at the beginning of this post. I have stopped all development of SWMH for CK2. So i don't really want to spend any more time in this thread than i have to
 
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Isewein

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Sorry, I just thought it was courteous to leave a little feeback regardless. You never know who might pick it up one day, after all! I don't think CK2 will be abandoned by the player base as fast as CK1 was, seeing as it will take years for CK3 to catch up on all those DLCs. Please don't feel pressured into responding or anything.

I concur that the regional cultures are different, I just found it weird that they are given synonymous names in different dialect variations - but then again, "Dutch" is sort of the same case, so touchee.
 

theKing1988

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It sounded like you assumed changes was still possible to the SWMH setup, which is why i made sure to make it absolutely clear that they're not. You don't need to apologize for your assuming anything. If you are new to the mod, there is no way you could have known this.

I certainly hope that the playerbase don't abandon playing my SWMH work (and my fellow co-mods, although i'm the only SWMH mod that is still actively modding) immediately. I've spent god knows how many hours on it.

And yeah, sometimes there is just no way around ethnonyms that are very similar. Some languages in Europe just resemble each other a lot.
 
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Grave461

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I certainly hope that the playerbase don't abandon playing my SWMH work (and my fellow co-mods, although i'm the only SWMH mod that is still actively modding) immediately. I've spent god knows how many hours on it.
King, do you have a province ID map available for the latest version of SWMH or know where I can obtain one?

Sort of like the one IoannesBarbus posted a few years ago, like this:

I need something that I can readily distinguish Wasteland areas with, because I'm... working on something that I hope will be useful to the community (if I can finish it). :cool:
 

theKing1988

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I need you to clarify your question. I'm not sure i understand what it is you are asking me about
 

theKing1988

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je can post your mod in workshop steam?
I would like you to respond to the French Private Message you got from Arko. You are French yourself, obviously. Thats why i got Arko to respond to you, so it would be easier for you guys to communicate with each other.

But if you want a response from me too, then fine. No, i would like you to not post SWMH in the Steam Workshop.

There is no conflicts between SWMH and your mod. People can download your mod and download SWMH and play them together just fine, without any problems. The Mods don't need to be uploaded together / packaged together.

There is a reason why i have never uploaded SWMH to the Steam Workshop before and i would like to keep SWMH here. SWMH doesn't need to be uploaded to the Steam Workshop.
 
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ahistorically correct

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Is there a list of terrain type for all provinces? Or a way to generate one? Some province terrains are easy to parse into a list from history/xxxprovince.txt, but how do I get ones that generate their terrain type just from terrain.bmp? Since terrain.bmp doesn't correspond to province boundaries. I guess the engine decides terrain type from most pixels of single colour inside province boundary or some such way? Even some list from SWMH dev history? I am trying to make a "province terrain view" submod for HIP/SWMH (painted colormap.dds with terrain type for each province)... Thanks!
 

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Is there a list of terrain type for all provinces? Or a way to generate one? Some province terrains are easy to parse into a list from history/xxxprovince.txt, but how do I get ones that generate their terrain type just from terrain.bmp? Since terrain.bmp doesn't correspond to province boundaries. I guess the engine decides terrain type from most pixels of single colour inside province boundary or some such way? Even some list from SWMH dev history? I am trying to make a "province terrain view" submod for HIP/SWMH (painted colormap.dds with terrain type for each province)... Thanks!
You could run this script using the run console command. It logs everything in game.log. Be sure to run the game with '-debug -debugscripts '.

Code:
any_province = {
    limit = { has_owner = yes } # Remove if you also want to log wasteland and water provinces (lakes, rivers, oceans, etc.)
    # limit = { is_land = yes } # Uncomment this to get all land provinces, but no water provinces, or use 'is_land = no' to only get water provinces

    trigger_switch = {
        on_trigger = terrain

        farmlands = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has farmland terrain" }
        desert = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has desert terrain" }
        hills = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has hills terrain" }
        steppe = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has steppe terrain" }
        arctic = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has arctic terrain" }
        mountain = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has mountain terrain" }
        jungle = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has jungle terrain" }
        coastal_desert = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has coastal desert terrain" }
        marsh = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has marsh terrain" }
        plains = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has plains terrain" }
        forest = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has forest terrain" }
        woods = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has woods terrain" }
        impassable_mountains = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has impassable_mountains terrain" }
        inland_ocean = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has inland_ocean terrain" }
        ocean = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has ocean terrain" }
        pti = { log = "[This.GetName] ([This.GetID]) has pti terrain" }
    }
}
Hope that helps.
 
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ahistorically correct

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You could run this script using the run console command. It logs everything in game.log. Be sure to run the game with '-debug -debugscripts '.
That is just great! I thought about using a script in-game, but didn't know about the -debug options & localization commands - there is so much to learn! Your script works perfectly, saved me a lot of time, thank you! Now just the "easy" task of painting the map - definitely not doing it by hand! :)

Thankfuly, we have provinces.bmp with their unique colours for that:
1) merge the list from your script with definition.csv and list of RGB values for each terrain type to get a list like provinceID ; provinceRGB ; terrainRGB
2) script to run imagemagick (or Python & NumPy?) to replace each and every provinceRGB with terrainRGB colour in the provinces.bmp
3) use the result as a layer to create new colormap.dds in Photoshop (I already have layers for water, rivers and borders with their masks)
... that should work, right?

Thanks!
 
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ahistorically correct

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@Whizzer, there you go! Generated Crusader Kings 2 province terrain map for HIP/SWMH, ver. 0.1 ;-)
@MapTerrainClean.jpg
This one is quite downscaled so the borders might be fuzzy or partly missing in places due to downscaling algo. Any rivers not defined in provinces.bmp (i.e. Nile) are obviously missing and this version is without wasteland terrain. Not sure how to paint them, perhaps with a checkerboard pattern for making it clear they're wastelands?

Please let me know if you spot any errors!

I have used CK2AutoBorder2 tool by @Toa Kraka to draw the borders (awesome script, thanks!). Colour palette is slightly adjusted from terrain.bmp, I might tweak it further for acuity and accessibility-friendly version. I'll upload a full-size version once I am sure there are no errors either in the map or in my script pipeline. Also looking at adding automatic province ID annotations.
 
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ahistorically correct

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Hah! And such a big font, how could I have missed that! Anyway, here is a tweaked version. Didn't like the colours of hills/mountains of the first one, but still tweaking... Nomads get the most garish colour, so far :(
@MapTerrain2.jpg
 
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