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Atimo3

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Alright I have being checking a lot about Africa recently and I have come with a list of bits that should probably be considered:

West Africa

My problem mostly comes with the circumstances surrounding the foundation of the Mali Empire in the map. It boths overestimates the size of the kingdom of Soumauro and underestimates the Imperial size of Mali under Sundiata. The foundation of the empire simply appears as a change of the main title and a change of dynasty.

Is generally accepted that Ghana started its great decline around 1077 (the motives are disputable and vary from Almoravid invasion, desertification of the fertile land or some dude killing a magical snake). As such this should be the point of the game in which the state starts to fragment.

Soumaoro Kanté appears as the all mighty king of a Ghana at its peak. I would argue that’s even questionable for him to have the kingdom of Ghana title as the original Cissé Dynasty still ruled an independent state (and would continue ruling as Malian vassals) in the Wagadou region despite losing the city of Koumbi Saleh.

During his time the lands of Oualata and Siby (Which I guess it’s equivalent to Sibiridugu) should be independent and be ruled by Kamandjan Kamara, Mema should be ruled by Musa Tounkara and also unconquered (there are others but Mali has few counties in the game and I am just pointing the things that don’t require redrawing the map).

While the Ghana ruled by Soumaoro Kanté is too big, the Mali ruled by Sundiata is too small, his campaigns to the west reached all the way to Futa Jallon so all the lands of the west Sahel sans the two coastal counties belonging to Takrur should be added within his lifetime as well. Those two last counties were annexes by Sakoura in 1285. (May I also say that it would be a good idea to chage Wolof culture to a more generic Fulani as I think the elites of Takrur spoke Serer)

I would complain about the Mali Empire not being an empire despite being at its peak the second biggest country on Earth after the Mongols. But since the counties are EXTRA THICC and with few holdings because reasons, and HIP has a minimum of holdings to hold an Empire, I will not put that into question.

The counties in the Sahara involved in the gold trade should also be portrayed as either part of the Empire o tributaries as they were very much in control of the Mande population during the Empire’s heyday.

As for the families of the people involved. Soumaoro Kanté is missing his son Balla, his sister Kita and nephew Fakoli (who would become a Malian vassal ruling over Sosso).

Sundiata is missing his half-sister Nana Triban. His older half-brother Dankaran Touman appears as much older of what he probably was in relation to Sundiata. The succession is also fishy. Dankaran Touman appears as dying and Sundiata succeeding him as a vassal of Soumaoro Kanté. Dankaran was simply deposed and died in exile, Sundiata was never a vassal of Kante as he lived in the court of the independent ruler of Mema.

Central Africa

This one is much more general. I have no idea what’s going on with Kanem, it basically pops as a kingdom out of nowhere in the 13th century although is generally accepted that the state had existed in some capacity since the 8th century. Also, despite being commonly called the Kanem-Bornu Empire, the map seems to make Bornu an independent state in every start date (?). By the 13th century Kanem should have expanded into North Hausaland.

As for Hausaland, the fact that the map doesn’t change during the entire game is worrisome. I don’t remember every detail of The Kano Chronicle but the city didn’t gain its prominence until the second millennium, and certainly it shouldn't occupy half Hausaland in the 9th century, a time in which Daura was by Hausa tradition the only real city of Hausaland.

Sources:

  • "The Epic of Sundiata" in it's Portuguese translation.
  • "The Kano Chronicle" in it's H. R. Palmer translation.
  • “The Dynamics of Feudalism in Bornu” and "The Bornu king lists" by Ronald Cohen
 
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Gwyn ap Nud

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Is it possible to add in the rest of India into SWMH now that the game runs faster?

No. The Team has said over and over again that they will not add India. It's not a matter of performance, it's a matter of a) interest, b) sources, c) gameplay, and d) adhering to the design philosophy of SWMH.

The only thing that could possibly change this in the future is a change in SWMH devs such that people with the passion and knowledge join the team. And even then.

It's one of the most posted questions, please do a quick search on the forum or even in this thread.
 

theKing1988

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Instead, you can create a Submod.

It will take a lot of work to add the rest of India to our projection for us, let alone for anyone of our players seeking to create a submod, seeing as we use a different projection than Vanilla. You can't use any shortcut and stitch the rest of Vanilla India unto our projection, because it won't match.

India doesn't really have priority, both for the reasons that Gwyn mentions further up on this page, but also because Aasmul and i (The swmh dev team) are simply too challenged when it comes to available time for modding to undertake any larger projects at the moment. Which is actually the deciding factor

We might look to add someone else to the SWMH dev team at some point, who seems to share our ideas about modding and who we can see ourselves having a good working relationship with, but until that day comes, larger SWMH projects are simply not gonna go anywhere
 
Last edited:

mechl

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It will take a lot of work to add the rest of India to our projection for us, let alone for anyone of our players seeking to create a submod, seeing as we use a different projection than Vanilla. You can't use any shortcut and stitch the rest of Vanilla India unto our projection, because it won't match.

India doesn't really have priority, both for the reasons that Gwyn mentions further up on this page, but also because Aasmul and i (The swmh dev team) are simply too challenged when it comes to available time for modding to undertake any larger projects at the moment. Which is actually the deciding factor

We might look to add someone else to the SWMH dev team at some point, who seems to share our ideas about modding and who we can see ourselves having a good working relationship with, but until that day comes, larger SWMH projects are simply not gonna go anywhere

I've already done the projection on my own personal map though it also comes with the rest of Asia due to me merging the Tianxia map into it. It'd take pretty little effort for me to cut out that section and just leave in India if someone wanted it.
 

IntoTheMaelstrom

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Please post in features that one of them is removing additional retinue cap from tribal buildings
 
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Spenadam

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Apologies if this belongs in the EMF thread, but I was curious as to why there aren't any Norman Mercenary Companies available in any time period. I was always under the impression that Normans were quite prolific amongst sell swords in and around the Mediterranean from the 11th century onwards.
 

Sunbro BigBoss

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Hi, please correct me if this is the wrong thread for asking, is there any source or reasoning behind the religious configuration of Iberia in the 867 bookmark? While arabization was quite extensive my understanding is that conversion to islam only reached 50% of the population during the 950s and would have been more like 20-30% during the 850s, many of those concentrated around urban areas and away from rural ones. I cannot claim to be knowledgeable enough about this period and region, but I think it's reasonable to say arabs, and to a larger extent muslims, would have been a minority.
 

crukin

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I used to play the Mihranids in the 769 start because they are the most legitimate heirs of the Arsacids. In 867 the heirs of the Mihranids again become the Arranshahiks, but this guy Grigor Hamam - Wikipedia id: 1232549 is not put as Spram Mihranid's son in the history files, even though she is married to his father. Hoping for a quick fix for future RP.
 

theKing1988

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I used to play the Mihranids in the 769 start because they are the most legitimate heirs of the Arsacids. In 867 the heirs of the Mihranids again become the Arranshahiks, but this guy Grigor Hamam - Wikipedia id: 1232549 is not put as Spram Mihranid's son in the history files, even though she is married to his father. Hoping for a quick fix for future RP.

Seems legit enough to assume Spram were the mother of Atrnerseh's son, so adding her in as Grigor Hamam's mother.
 

Arko

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Any chance of SWMH increasing the amount of counties in places like Finland which had their number of counties increased with the recent game patches, since vanilla now has more counties than SWMH in Finland?
Not sure why you imply that a change on vanilla map should influence SWMH one ? Vanilla made recently mostly brainless or fantasy changes.
 
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theKing1988

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Any chance of SWMH increasing the amount of counties in places like Finland which had their number of counties increased with the recent game patches, since vanilla now has more counties than SWMH in Finland?

If you wanna argue for province additions then you need to actually use other arguments than Vanilla has more provinces, we will reject those arguments without a second thought. We are not in a province race with Vanilla.

Is there actually a reason for Vanilla to have more provinces, does it represent a tribe, a family or a known administrative subdivision? If you can find the reason, then try arguing based on that.