[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

[Toa Kraka]

Is there a way to use this map from the Charlemagne start Date?

A project is underway here.

This is regarding why the holder of the Castile title is called a count but holds a duke-tier title.
A suggestion: Just make the title a county, rather than a duchy.

Argument for making Castile a duchy: It historically controlled an amount of land that was called "duchy" in most of Europe.
Argument for making Castile a county: It historically was called "county".

Simple solution: Keep Castile as a duchy-tier title, but give it a modifier that decreases prestige so that, overall, the Count of Castile gains only the amount of prestige that's associated with a count-tier title.

Normally, a duke gains 0.2 prestige per month, while a count gains 0.05 prestige per year. The Counts of Castile could get a modifier that gives -0.15 prestige per month, to simulate how they're called counts despite actually being dukes. Likewise, a king normally gains 0.4 prestige per month, so the Anglo-Saxon petty kings could get a modifier that grants 0.2 extra prestige per month, in order to represent how they considered themselves kings despite actually being mere dukes.

This character modifier would have to be added and removed by event, based on titles and ruler cultures.

 

[BigPharma]

A project is underway here.

Argument for making Castile a duchy: It historically controlled an amount of land that was called "duchy" in most of Europe.
Argument for making Castile a county: It historically was called "county".

Simple solution: Keep Castile as a duchy-tier title, but give it a modifier that decreases prestige so that, overall, the Count of Castile gains only the amount of prestige that's associated with a count-tier title.

Normally, a duke gains 0.2 prestige per month, while a count gains 0.05 prestige per year. The Counts of Castile could get a modifier that gives -0.15 prestige per month, to simulate how they're called counts despite actually being dukes. Likewise, a king normally gains 0.4 prestige per month, so the Anglo-Saxon petty kings could get a modifier that grants 0.2 extra prestige per month, in order to represent how they considered themselves kings despite actually being mere dukes.

This character modifier would have to be added and removed by event, based on titles and ruler cultures.

I don't think the issue here is the prestige as much as he is concerned about the title and rank itself

 

[BigPharma]

Once Leon is Created the Duchy of Casteal can be Created and Galacia. The Titular just goes away. Which will Stable The northern part of Spain and the Guy holding the Casteal Title becomes a real Duke and leaves you alone. If not the currant out Come is that They wiped out in a few years by Muslims and the Kingdoms never form at all.

So what's the difference between duke-tier title being called the County of Castile and your suggested Duchy of Castile? The only difference is the name.

 

[Rylock]

I don't think it's much of an issue that needs solving.

A duke-tier title being called a County - and there were, historically-speaking, a number of such large "counties" across Europe -- is worthy of approximately three seconds of confusion before you realize the truth, by looking at the character's portrait border and/or title icon. If that's truly such a problem, perhaps you are using the wrong mod.

 

[robomax]

So what's the difference between duke-tier title being called the County of Castile and your suggested Duchy of Castile? The only difference is the name.

No what happens is the Code of Castillo is mad you all time because he wants a Duke Title.

 

[robomax]

I don't think it's much of an issue that needs solving.

A duke-tier title being called a County - and there were, historically-speaking, a number of such large "counties" across Europe -- is worthy of approximately three seconds of confusion before you realize the truth, by looking at the character's portrait border and/or title icon. If that's truly such a problem, perhaps you are using the wrong mod.

Historically There was not Duchy of Castile at 867 it wasn't form till 1065 so The Code of Castillo would start at count rank with cont title controlling 3 counties? Make sense?
Historically the 867 start is wrong.

 

[Rylock]

Historically There was not Duchy of Castile at 867 it wasn't form till 1065 so The Code of Castillo would start at count rank with cont title controlling 3 counties? Make sense?
Historically the 867 start is wrong.

The Kingdom of Castlle was formed in 1065, as there was never anything called the Duchy of Castille.

And the County of Castille does exist in 867, as a duke-tier title.

SWMH goes to great lengths to make sure these regional titles are historical. I'm not sure why this appears to puzzle you so.

 

[robomax]

So what's the difference between duke-tier title being called the County of Castile and your suggested Duchy of Castile? The only difference is the name.

No how can a Count have vassals of the same rank? Its a Game mechanic issue not an historical one

 

[robomax]

The Kingdom of Castlle was formed in 1065, as there was never anything called the Duchy of Castille.

And the County of Castille does exist in 867, as a duke-tier title.

SWMH goes to great lengths to make sure these regional titles are historical. I'm not sure why this appears to puzzle you so.

Ya because technically and Historically Kingdom of Castillo is Petty kingdom. Your Confusing the Crown of Castile to the Kingdom of Castillo. 2 different Titles to different times in history.

 

[Moarice]

No how can a Count have vassals of the same rank? Its a Game mechanic issue not an historical one

Having vassals of the same rank wasn't even that rare. Good ol' Willie the Conqueror was still technically vassal of the French king even as the king of England.
Honestly, if localization of the title is your only concern here, why not propose some local, historical name for the county of Castille/Castillian culture counts?

 

[robomax]

Having vassals of the same rank wasn't even that rare. Good ol' Willie the Conqueror was still technically vassal of the French king even as the king of England.
Honestly, if localization of the title is your only concern here, why not propose some local, historical name for the county of Castille/Castillian culture counts?

No Because Frances Title at the time was Greater Title France was a Confederacy of Kingdoms we dont have that in the game. And all that was was a law change in England. Thats why William is the known at the first King of England. Or the first King after the reforming of England. If England was ever a vassal of France it wasn't for very long.

So I can Vessel Transfer all my Dukes under one duke and they can still all be dukes?



Its the only Kingdom that does not have Ducky in it ?

It must have changed after the last update hes not vasseling any one of the same rank

But the the sizr of Crown symbol is of a duchy rank not count

 

[Rylock]

Ya because technically and Historically Kingdom of Castillo is Petty kingdom. Your Confusing the Crown of Castile to the Kingdom of Castillo. 2 different Titles to different times in history.

I honestly don't even know what you're arguing any longer. I'll leave you to it.

 

[robomax]

The Kingdom of Castlle was formed in 1065, as there was never anything called the Duchy of Castille.

And the County of Castille does exist in 867, as a duke-tier title.

SWMH goes to great lengths to make sure these regional titles are historical. I'm not sure why this appears to puzzle you so.

Yes it does see pic

 

[BigPharma]

Yes it does see pic

Look in your photo. Do you see the blue border around his portrait? That means the game treats him as having a duke-tier title. His title's CoA on the map is also in the pattern of a duke tier title. The only thing that seems to be confusing you so incredibly needlessly is that he is referred to as a Conde, which was his historical title. The game does not care if his localized title is Conde, it treats him like a duke without calling him one. Check his opinion of his liege. Do you see him demanding a duchy? No? That's because he already has a duke-tier title.

Look around the map. What makes a Basileios different from a Keisur in terms of title tier? Nothing. All that differs is their name. Speaking of which, Basileios doesn't automatically mean emperor in Greek, it can also be used to refer to kings. So by your logic, that can't be a legitimate title for a Greek emperor as he can have king-level titles under him.

In short, accept that titles are just titles that differ based on time period and culture. What tier they are in the game is very different from what we choose to call them. And because you refuse to stop making up nonsense like France being a confederacy of kings (William was a vassal to France because he was duke of Normandy, not because England is vassal to France) and whatnot to prove your point, I'll leave you to whatever it is you think you're achieving.

 

[Toa Kraka]

William was a vassal to France because he was duke of Normandy, not because England is vassal to France

That's an interesting idea, actually. Maybe, in such situations, France could make England into a tributary via event, rather than immediately going to war for Normandy. (Currently, non-Muslim feudal rulers controlled by the AI are forbidden by ai_will_do from using tributary_cb on each other, even though the player has no such restriction.)

Spoiler: First draft of the event

character_event = {
  id = de_jure_tribute.1
  trigger = {
    any_demesne_title = {
      any_direct_de_jure_vassal_title = {
        holder_scope = { # The target('s top liege) must be a valid target for tributary_cb (but adjacency isn't necessary, since this is a de jure vassal of the title)
          not = { same_realm = root }
          or = {
            and = {
              independent = yes
              mercenary = no
              is_tributary = no
              not = { rightful_religious_head_scope = { character = root } }
              nand = { or = { holy_order = yes root = { holy_order = yes } } religion = root }
            }
            top_liege = {
              mercenary = no
              is_tributary = no
              not = { rightful_religious_head_scope = { character = root } }
              nand = { or = { holy_order = yes root = { holy_order = yes } } religion = root }
            }
          }
        }
      }
    }
  }
  option = { # Send demands
    any_demesne_title = {
      any_direct_de_jure_vassal_title = {
        limit = {
          holder_scope = { # The target('s top liege) must be a valid target for tributary_cb (but adjacency isn't necessary, since this is a de jure vassal of the title)
            not = { same_realm = root }
            or = {
              and = {
                independent = yes
                mercenary = no
                is_tributary = no
                not = { rightful_religious_head_scope = { character = root } }
                nand = { or = { holy_order = yes root = { holy_order = yes } } religion = root }
              }
              top_liege = {
                mercenary = no
                is_tributary = no
                not = { rightful_religious_head_scope = { character = root } }
                nand = { or = { holy_order = yes root = { holy_order = yes } } religion = root }
              }
            }
          }
        }
        if = {
          limit = { holder_scope = { independent = yes } }
          holder_scope = {
            character_event = {
              id = de_jure_tribute.2
              days = 0
            }
          }
          break = yes
        }
        holder_scope = {
          top_liege = {
            character_event = {
              id = de_jure_tribute.2
              days = 0
            }
          }
        }
      }
    }
  }
  option = { # Don't send demands
  }
}

 

[HandicapdHippo]

That's an interesting idea, actually. Maybe, in such situations, France could make England into a tributary via event, rather than immediately going to war for Normandy.

But that's even less historically accurate, why would France get a cut of all the taxes collected in England rather than just Normandy and the ability to force England to fight for them?

 

[Toa Kraka]

But that's even less historically accurate, why would France get a cut of all the taxes collected in England rather than just Normandy and the ability to force England to fight for them?

Well, it was just an idea. I vaguely remember learning in high school that the Hundred Years' War was ignited specifically when an English king refused to pay homage to the French king despite holding a de jure French duchy, and that sounds a lot like refusing to renew a tributary relationship, even if it was more like paying prestige than paying money.

 

[Teutonic_Thrash]

I made this post in the bug report thread too because I'm not certain where specifically is this kind of complaint supposed to be directed, so I post in both threads.

"At the moment a bunch of regions in the Old Gods bookmark around the area of Soghdia has Tajik rulers - I assume it's not intended since the Tajik culture doesn't exist on the map.

I'm also not sure about the Khalaj culture where Pashto is supposed to be - isn't it a Turkic culture?"

Re Tajik: Yes it is intended. Tajik represents the Persianised eastern Iranians (represented by Sogdian). It's assumed that the 9th century is roughly the time when this process of the Persianisation of Transoxiana (and Afghanistan to some extent) began, aided of course by Islamisation.

Re Khalaj: It's in debate whether Khalaj was a Turkic culture or one of the groups that moved in with the Hephthalites. On the other hand, these two ideas need not be mutually exclusive; while the Hephthalite rulers certainly used the Bactrian language (and in some cases Bactrian names) it is also possible that Turkic also took part in the migration.

 

[Moarice]

Originally, the Kings of Sweden were elected by all free men at the Mora Thing. Elective monarchy continued until 1544, when the Riksdag of the Estates designated the heirs of King Gustav Vasa as the heirs to the throne. The Danish monarchy was also officially elective, although the eldest son of the reigning monarch was usually elected. This continued until 1660, when a hereditary and absolute monarchy was instituted by Frederick III. Though the monarchy of Norway was originally hereditary, it too became elective in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. Candidates had to be of royal blood, but the kingship was elected by a council of noblemen, rather than automatically passing to the eldest son

So, and I'm not sure if this is the right thread to ask for it, would it be possible to add a new succession type for Scandinavian kingdoms that is basically Elective Monarchy which makes only royal family members eligible, but without favouring distant kinsmen or splitting the demesne every time a ruler dies?

 

[Toa Kraka]

Would it be possible to add a new succession type?

The succession laws are hardcoded.