[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

[deserk]

Why isn't the isle of Pantelleria on the SWMH map? The isle of Gozo (part of the province of Malta) is, and Pantelleria is a bigger island. Could perhaps be worth making it single-county province since like the Maltese islands it held a strategic value being locked closely between Tunisia and Sicily, and for it's harbours and use as a waystation in Mediterranean trade and was contested by several powers in the Medieval era (notably conquered by the Norman king of Sicily Roger II) and upwards into the Renaissance/Colonial era.

 

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

The Curonians (Balts) are famous Baltic raiders. For centuries (since 9th until 13th century) they terrorised basically the whole Baltic coast including Sweden and Denmark. This triggered dozens mutual raids between them and the Vikings and many naval campaigns of the Scandinavian kings.

I have no problem with them raiding in Scandinavia and along Baltics, just as I don't mind Slavs raiding other Slavs or Bolghars and Finns in what is today Northern Russia. Or Irish raiding in the Ireland and Britain. But England, Scotland, France and Hispania are another matter. Also I completely agree with them raiding, but maybe they should have harder times at actually subjugating and conquering lands in Scandinavia and England. Perhaps some modifiers that grant Vikings greater distance to raid, and puts larger penalties for subjugated / conquered territory for non-Nords?

 

[elvain]

Why isn't the isle of Pantelleria on the SWMH map? The isle of Gozo (part of the province of Malta) is, and Pantelleria is a bigger island. Could perhaps be worth making it single-county province since like the Maltese islands it held a strategic value being locked closely between Tunisia and Sicily, and for it's harbours and use as a waystation in Mediterranean trade and was contested by several powers in the Medieval era (notably conquered by the Norman king of Sicily Roger II) and upwards into the Renaissance/Colonial era.

Gozo is not its own province, it is there to actually increase the size of Malta.
While the importance of Pantelleria and Gozo may be comparable, the importance of Pantelleria and Malta is incomparable. Just my opinion, the SWMH team might see it differently, but IMHO there is like thousand other places which would deserve to be a single province more than this tiny island.

 

[theKing1988]

I think it would be quite a bit of overkill to add ait as a separate province.

But it could be an idea to draw it on to the map as a part of one of the Sicilian provinces. Aasmul is feaudalizing Italy at the moment, so i'll discuss the idea with him and see what we both think about it

 

[deserk]

Gozo is not its own province, it is there to actually increase the size of Malta.
While the importance of Pantelleria and Gozo may be comparable, the importance of Pantelleria and Malta is incomparable. Just my opinion, the SWMH team might see it differently, but IMHO there is like thousand other places which would deserve to be a single province more than this tiny island.

Well what I meant was that the isle of Pantelleria isn't even present on the SWMH terrain map, which is strange when considering that it is a bigger island than Gozo which is present on the SWMH terrain map.

 

[elvain]

Well what I meant was that the isle of Pantelleria isn't even present on the SWMH terrain map, which is strange when considering that it is a bigger island than Gozo which is present on the SWMH terrain map.

Gozo is there to increase the clickable land of the province of Malta and they are both made bigger.

But I must admit, that the coast of North Africa wasn't made in the level of detail like, for instance Scandinavian coast or, well, actually, any other coast the team has been working on.

 

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

Can you make Guelph Welf at 1066 legitimized bastard, or remove bastard trait or something. Since he is a bastard, he always takes a decision to form his cadet branch, and that removes House Welf from the game :/ ?

 

[zijistark]

Can you make Guelph Welf at 1066 legitimized bastard, or remove bastard trait or something. Since he is a bastard, he always takes a decision to form his cadet branch, and that removes House Welf from the game :/ ?

Cadet branches aren't part of SWMH.
Cadet branches are only part of EMF insofar as Muslims, so unless Guelph Welf is converting to Islam or something is dearly wrong with EMF, that isn't what is happening.
It's presumably because Guelph, being a bastard, will have children of a new dynasty rather than his own, which is a vanilla hard-coded mechanic.

 

[RhaegarTelcontarTargaryen]

Damn it. In that case, I will remove his bastard trait. Thanks.

 

[R'hllor]

But shouldn't Guelph Welf in 1066 be a part of his own dynasty, the younger house of Welf (or Guelph)? And at least according to wikipedia, he wasn't a bastard either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welf_I,_Duke_of_Bavaria

Also, on the subject of cadet branches, are you considering adding them in the mod at some point? Especially now when fertility is so high family trees tend to get really big and messy, and I'd personally see them as a welcome addition for that alone.

 

[2ndPorphyry]

Also, on the subject of cadet branches, are you considering adding them in the mod at some point? Especially now when fertility is so high family trees tend to get really big and messy, and I'd personally see them as a welcome addition for that alone.

It would be nice to get cadet branches that maintained some sort of dynastic relation to their scion (same dynasty bonus, no game over if succeeded by a cadet, and especially some kind of shared dynasty prestige), but I get the feeling CK2's dynasty system is too cut & dried for that on a hardcode level. Is this true?

 

[Rylock]

It would be nice to get cadet branches that maintained some sort of dynastic relation to their scion (same dynasty bonus, no game over if succeeded by a cadet, and especially some kind of shared dynasty prestige), but I get the feeling CK2's dynasty system is too cut & dried for that on a hardcode level. Is this true?

It's true. If you are of a different dynasty, you are of a different dynasty - period.

The other difficulty with cadet dynasties is the way they're named. Cultures which use founder-named dynasties aren't that bad, but everything else just assigns a random dynasty name...which very likely is going to use the province the cadet is located in as its base, as opposed to using their parent dynasty as a base. It's not ideal.

 

[R'hllor]

But aren't most cadet branches in the game and in real life just named after the place they rule? Of course, there are exceptions which make this limited but I think it would work good enough. Though I suppose instead of arguing here I could spend my time figuring out how to mod that in myself.

 

[Thure]

It's true. If you are of a different dynasty, you are of a different dynasty - period.

The other difficulty with cadet dynasties is the way they're named. Cultures which use founder-named dynasties aren't that bad, but everything else just assigns a random dynasty name...which very likely is going to use the province the cadet is located in as its base, as opposed to using their parent dynasty as a base. It's not ideal.

Why should they use their parent dynasty as a base? That wouldn't really work. For exemple the House Capet split into:
de Valois, d'Évreux, de Bourbon, d'Artois, d'Anjou etc...
Where did you see the 'parent dynasty as a base'? The House of York was a cadet of the Plantagenet. So for me province based names sound more plausible than parent dynasty based ones.

 

[Herr Doctor]

Why should they use their parent dynasty as a base? That wouldn't really work. For exemple the House Capet split into:
de Valois, d'Évreux, de Bourbon, d'Artois, d'Anjou etc...
Where did you see the 'parent dynasty as a base'? The House of York was a cadet of the Plantagenet. So for me province based names sound more plausible than parent dynasty based ones.

Good idea. However those are probably names of the "duchies" rather than "provinces" (in game terms).

 

[Rylock]

Why should they use their parent dynasty as a base? That wouldn't really work. For exemple the House Capet split into:
de Valois, d'Évreux, de Bourbon, d'Artois, d'Anjou etc...
Where did you see the 'parent dynasty as a base'? The House of York was a cadet of the Plantagenet. So for me province based names sound more plausible than parent dynasty based ones.

Fair enough, though most of the ones you mentioned aren't provinces but duchies (and it still doesn't get rid of the fact that new dynasties have no connection to the previous).

Either way, I'm not the one to argue with. I created the cadet system in Plus -- what I mentioned are the general issues of the team against implementing cadets (which also has nothing to do with SWMH, by the by, as I doubt they would put in such a system).

 

[zijistark]

Guys, let's move any future talk of cadet dynasty systems to the EMF thread or some specific thread in our sub-forum. As @Rylock hints, this really isn't the place. Thanks.

 

[vyshan]

I'm working on a timeline extension. A major project, to put it midly.

Curious when this extension is being extended to? I assume something between old gods and hastings? but I am curious to as to what time?

 

[theKing1988]

1043-1066 is step one

There will most likely be both a step two and three later

 

[vyshan]

1043-1066 is step one

There will most likely be both a step two and three later

Cool. I am hoping for a year 1000 bookmark myself. but this will do while I wait