[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

[theKing1988]

"Historicity"

We have never stated that it was our intent to improve historicity for all of the map areas that PDX decided to introduce. On the contrary we have always stated that we are mainly focusing on the original map areas. And to create a historically optimal original area we felt like including Rajasthan on the map was the only thing that was essential.

 

[zijistark]

One thing to note about ahistorical de jure empires:

The game is designed around the assumption that every de jure kingdom has a de jure empire title. It doesn't need to be creatable, though. Why? They are used for more than just a title that a player may hold. They are used to group together related kingdom titles (as in, kingdoms that a ruler might plausibly have territory within) for a variety of purposes, incl. things like calculation of effective liege levies based upon de jure territory or using the empire titles as geographical guides for conquest for the Tribal Invasion, etc. etc. It's actually really important to stick to the model of having a de jure empire title defined to cover every province on the map. They, of course, don't have to be possible to create, though.

It would be really nice if Paradox would code their 'de jure empires' map mode so that deactivated empire titles (all titles have an 'active' flag-- all holy orders, e.g., start deactivated and are then activated later by event) just appeared as the 'dark grey' of 'no de jure empire' for display purposes. It would end a lot of confusion and let us organize the titular structure of the map optimally for the engine w/o introducing any ahistorical empires into the game. Unfortunately, even if a de jure title is deactivated, its color appears on that stupid map mode, causing a lot of confusion.

 

[JonStryker]

One thing to note about ahistorical de jure empires:

The game is designed around the assumption that every de jure kingdom has a de jure empire title. It doesn't need to be creatable, though. Why? They are used for more than just a title that a player may hold. They are used to group together related kingdom titles (as in, kingdoms that a ruler might plausibly have territory within) for a variety of purposes, incl. things like calculation of effective liege levies based upon de jure territory or using the empire titles as geographical guides for conquest for the Tribal Invasion, etc. etc. It's actually really important to stick to the model of having a de jure empire title defined to cover every province on the map. They, of course, don't have to be possible to create, though.

It would be really nice if Paradox would code their 'de jure empires' map mode so that deactivated empire titles (all titles have an 'active' flag-- all holy orders, e.g., start deactivated and are then activated later by event) just appeared as the 'dark grey' of 'no de jure empire' for display purposes. It would end a lot of confusion and let us organize the titular structure of the map optimally for the engine w/o introducing any ahistorical empires into the game. Unfortunately, even if a de jure title is deactivated, its color appears on that stupid map mode, causing a lot of confusion.

How would you then see which titles exist and can be created in an unfamiliar setting?

 

[theStormWeaver]

How would you then see which titles exist and can be created in an unfamiliar setting?

If they are deactivated, they can't be created normally, so that's not really an issue. Right?

 

[IoannesBarbarus]

One thing to note about ahistorical de jure empires:

The game is designed around the assumption that every de jure kingdom has a de jure empire title. It doesn't need to be creatable, though. Why? They are used for more than just a title that a player may hold. They are used to group together related kingdom titles (as in, kingdoms that a ruler might plausibly have territory within) for a variety of purposes, incl. things like calculation of effective liege levies based upon de jure territory or using the empire titles as geographical guides for conquest for the Tribal Invasion, etc. etc. It's actually really important to stick to the model of having a de jure empire title defined to cover every province on the map. They, of course, don't have to be possible to create, though.

It would be really nice if Paradox would code their 'de jure empires' map mode so that deactivated empire titles (all titles have an 'active' flag-- all holy orders, e.g., start deactivated and are then activated later by event) just appeared as the 'dark grey' of 'no de jure empire' for display purposes. It would end a lot of confusion and let us organize the titular structure of the map optimally for the engine w/o introducing any ahistorical empires into the game. Unfortunately, even if a de jure title is deactivated, its color appears on that stupid map mode, causing a lot of confusion.

Interesting. But aren’t there already large areas of the SWMH map that have no de jure empire, e.g. the Holy Land?

 

[zijistark]

Interesting. But aren’t there already large areas of the SWMH map that have no de jure empire, e.g. the Holy Land?

Yep, and that's a thorn in my side and something that requires a lot of workarounds and suboptimal AI war targeting behavior, although I've at least managed to negate the unintended de jure territory tier liege levy malus caused by that in the EMF beta (will be part of the first 2.3/WoL release).

 

[zijistark]

How would you then see which titles exist and can be created in an unfamiliar setting?

Are you referring to my 2nd paragraph? What I was saying there was that it'd be nice if the de jure empires map mode did NOT show the colors of deactivated non-de-jure empire titles and instead showed the usual black. Your query is precisely the reason that should be the case.

Since it's not, you'd have to simply know whether 'no ahistorical empires' was enabled (by you) and that the ERE, HRE, and Persia are the only valid de jure empire titles. Otherwise (without enabling 'NAE'), everything you see should be creatable IMHO.

 

[zijistark]

If they are deactivated, they can't be created normally, so that's not really an issue. Right?

Right. Only the historically de jure empire titles would be creatable (HRE, ERE-- which exists at all starts anyhow, and Persia).

 

[Federalist girl]

huh, wait, the no ahistorical empires decision also means they can't be created at all? Not even as titular empires?

edit: not an argument, just a clarification requested

 

[Aasmul]

huh, wait, the no ahistorical empires decision also means they can't be created at all? Not even as titular empires?

edit: not an argument, just a clarification requested

Iirc it just makes them titular. So yes they should still be possible to create.

 

[omega20056]

I wonder if it would be possible to make my mod compatible with SWHM? I can write events and decisions, but I'm terrible when it comes to map modding. The map you've and the rest of the SWHM team has created is far superior to the vanilla map, and I'd love to be able to use it alongside my own changes if possible. People have asked me multiple times if I could try to make it compatible with SWHM, and like I said, I'd really like to use it myself.

 

[StenKilla]

The petty kings in scandinavia are named "King" not "Kronugr" everybody else are named according to theyr culture

 

[zijistark]

Iirc it just makes them titular. So yes they should still be possible to create.

Actually, verification necessary, but they should be straight-up out of the game (not creatable as titular) if 'remove ahistorical empires' is selected AFAIK. Unless there's another vanilla bug IDK about. Custom empires w/ the Charlemagne DLC serves the purpose of, well, custom empires better.

 

[Aasmul]

I wonder if it would be possible to make my mod compatible with SWHM? I can write events and decisions, but I'm terrible when it comes to map modding. The map you've and the rest of the SWHM team has created is far superior to the vanilla map, and I'd love to be able to use it alongside my own changes if possible. People have asked me multiple times if I could try to make it compatible with SWHM, and like I said, I'd really like to use it myself.

Thanks. Hmm it might be, I wonder how much work it would be when looking at your files though. Technically it should be fairly straightforward if the scope is decision and events, but you seem to have quite a lot of other files in. I think I would recommend waiting until we got the eastern expansion out before trying, given that it will affect the area you are most focused on so heavily.

The petty kings in scandinavia are named "King" not "Kronugr" everybody else are named according to theyr culture

I had no luck modifying them when I tried for the ToG version, afaik its hardcoded.

 

[Aasmul]

Actually, verification necessary, but they should be straight-up out of the game (not creatable as titular) if 'remove ahistorical empires' is selected AFAIK. Unless there's another vanilla bug IDK about. Custom empires w/ the Charlemagne DLC serves the purpose of, well, custom empires better.

Oki, been a long time since I looked.^^

 

[IoannesBarbarus]

Actually, verification necessary, but they should be straight-up out of the game (not creatable as titular) if 'remove ahistorical empires' is selected AFAIK. Unless there's another vanilla bug IDK about. Custom empires w/ the Charlemagne DLC serves the purpose of, well, custom empires better.

If that’s true, then why does PB need that decision? Why not have it be default SWMH behavior?

On the other hand, for players without the Charlemagne DLC, perhaps the decision should​ leave the titles creatable but titular.

 

[theStormWeaver]

If that’s true, then why does PB need that decision? Why not have it be default SWMH behavior?

On the other hand, for players without the Charlemagne DLC, perhaps the decision should​ leave the titles creatable but titular.

Because the reverse decision (adding ahistorical empires) would be tedious and un-maintainable.

 

[omega20056]

Thanks. Hmm it might be, I wonder how much work it would be when looking at your files though. Technically it should be fairly straightforward if the scope is decision and events, but you seem to have quite a lot of other files in. I think I would recommend waiting until we got the eastern expansion out before trying, given that it will affect the area you are most focused on so heavily.

I had no luck modifying them when I tried for the ToG version, afaik its hardcoded.

I can remove anything that has to do with the map and so forth. You make a good point though, it's probably best to wait until you finish what you're working on.

 

[Lord Blazer]

I've found that the localization for the Serbian culture to be a bit particularly lacking and with one minor error in the King title, here is the error:

king_serbian;Kralj ;Kralj ;Kralj ;;Kralj ;;;;;;;;;x

As you can see, there's an additional space that shouldn't be there and while minor it does tend to detract a bit from the game, so here's the fix:

king_serbian;Kralj;Kralj;Kralj;;Kralj;;;;;;;;;x

In addition, here is a total listing of Serb titles I tend to add to any CK2 mod I use:

Spoiler

emperor_serbian;Car;Car;Car;;Car;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_female_serbian;Carica;Carica;Carica;;Carica;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_ruler_consort_serbian;Car;Car;Car;;Car;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_ruler_consort_female_serbian;Carica;Carica;Carica;;;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_prince_serbian;Knez;Knez;Knez;;Knez;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_prince_female_serbian;Kneginja;Kneginja;Kneginja;;Kneginja;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_queen_mother_female_serbian;Carica Majka;Carica Majka;Carica Majka;;Carica Majka;;;;;;;;;x
empire_of_serbian;Carstvo;Carstvo;Carstvo;;Carstvo;;;;;;;;;x
temple_emperor_serbian;Arhi-Patrijarh;Arhi-Patrijarh;Arhi-Patrijarh;;Arhi-Patrijarh;;;;;;;;;x
temple_empire_of_serbian;Visoka Patrijaršija;Visoka Patrijaršija;Visoka Patrijaršija;;Visoka Patrijaršija;;;;;;;;;x
city_emperor_serbian;Veliki Guverner;Veliki Guverner;Veliki Guverner;;Veliki Guverner;;;;;;;;;x
city_empire_of_serbian;Velika Republika;Velika Republika;Velika Republika;;Velika Republika;;;;;;;;;x
king_serbian;Kralj;Kralj;Kralj;;Kralj;;;;;;;;;x
king_female_serbian;Kraljica;Kraljica;Kraljica;;Kraljica;;;;;;;;;x
king_title_ruler_consort_serbian;Kralj;Kralj;Kralj;;Kralj;;;;;;;;;x
king_title_ruler_consort_female_serbian;Kraljica;Kraljica;Kraljica;;Kraljica;;;;;;;;;x
title_prince_serbian;Knez;Knez;Knez;;Knez;;;;;;;;;x
title_prince_female_serbian;Kneginja;Kneginja;Kneginja;;Kneginja;;;;;;;;;x
title_queen_mother_serbian;Kraljica Majka;Kraljica Majka;Kraljica Majka;;Kraljica Majka;;;;;;;;;x
kingdom_of_serbian;Kraljevstvo;Kraljevstvo;Kraljevstvo;;Kraljevstvo;;;;;;;;;x
temple_king_serbian;Patrijarh;Patrijarh;Patrijarh;;Patrijarh;;;;;;;;;x
temple_kingdom_of_serbian;Patrijaršija;Patrijaršija;Patrijaršija;;Patrijaršija;;;;;;;;;x
city_king_serbian;Vladar;Vladar;Vladar;;Vladar;;;;;;;;;x
city_kingdom_of_serbian;Republika;Republika;Republika;;Republika;;;;;;;;;x
duke_serbian;Vojvoda;Vojvoda;Vojvoda;;Vojvoda;;;;;;;;;x
duke_female_serbian;Vojvotkinja;Vojvotkinja;Vojvotkinja;;Vojvotkinja;;;;;;;;;x
duke_title_ruler_consort_serbian;Vojvotda;Vojvotda;Vojvotda;;Vojvotda;;;;;;;;;x
duke_title_ruler_consort_female_serbian;Vojvotkinja;Vojvotkinja;Vojvotkinja;;Vojvotkinja;;;;;;;;;x
duchy_of_serbian;Vojvodstvo;Vojvodstvo;Vojvodstvo;;Vojvodstvo;;;;;;;;;x
temple_duke_serbian;Arhiepiskop;Arhiepiskop;Arhiepiskop;;Arhiepiskop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_duchy_of_serbian;Arhiepiskopija;Arhiepiskopija;Arhiepiskopija;;Arhiepiskopija;;;;;;;;;x
city_duke_serbian;Posadnik;Posadnik;Posadnik;;Posadnik;;;;;;;;;x
city_duchy_of_serbian;Posadnikestvo;Posadnikestvo;Posadnikestvo;;Posadnikestvo;;;;;;;;;x
count_serbian;Grof;Grof;Grof;;Grof;;;;;;;;;x
count_female_serbian;Grofica;Grofica;Grofica;;Grofica;;;;;;;;;x
count_title_ruler_consort_serbian;Grof;Grof;Grof;;Grof;;;;;;;;;x
count_title_ruler_consort_female_serbian;Grofica;Grofica;Grofica;;Grofica;;;;;;;;;x
county_of_serbian;Oblast;Oblast;Oblast;;Oblast;;;;;;;;;x
temple_count_serbian;Mitropolit;Mitropolit;Mitropolit;;Mitropolit;;;;;;;;;x
temple_county_of_serbian;Mitropolija;Mitropolija;Mitropolija;;Mitropolija;;;;;;;;;x
city_count_serbian;Knez-Gradonacelnik;Knez-Gradonacelnik;Knez-Gradonacelnik;;Knez-Gradonacelnik;;;;;;;;;x
city_county_of_serbian;Veliki Gradstvo;Veliki Gradstvo;Veliki Gradstvo;;Veliki Gradstvo;;;;;;;;;x
baron_serbian;Bojar;Bojar;Bojar;;Bojar;;;;;;;;;x
baron_female_serbian;Bojarica;Bojarica;Bojarica;;Bojarica;;;;;;;;;x
baron_title_ruler_consort_serbian;Bojar;Bojar;Bojar;;Bojar;;;;;;;;;x
baron_title_ruler_consort_female_serbian;Bojarica;Bojarica;Bojarica;;Bojarica;;;;;;;;;x
barony_of_serbian;Baronija;Baronija;Baronija;;Baronija;;;;;;;;;x
temple_baron_serbian;Episkop;Episkop;Episkop;;Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_barony_of_serbian;Episkop;Episkop;Episkop;;Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
city_baron_serbian;Gradonacelnik;Gradonacelnik;Gradonacelnik;;Gradonacelnik;;;;;;;;;x
city_barony_of_serbian;Grad;Grad;Grad;;Grad;;;;;;;;;x
family_palace_baron_serbian;Burzuj;Burzuj;Burzuj;;Burzuj;;;;;;;;;x
family_palace_baron_female_serbian;Burzoazija;Burzoazija;Burzoazija;;Burzoazija;;;;;;;;;x
family_palace_barony_of_serbian;Kuca;Kuca;Kuca;;Kuca;;;;;;;;;x

 

[SBolshevik]

I've found that the localization for the Serbian culture to be a bit particularly lacking and with one minor error in the King title, here is the error:

king_serbian;Kralj ;Kralj ;Kralj ;;Kralj ;;;;;;;;;x

As you can see, there's an additional space that shouldn't be there and while minor it does tend to detract a bit from the game, so here's the fix:

king_serbian;Kralj;Kralj;Kralj;;Kralj;;;;;;;;;x

In addition, here is a total listing of Serb titles I tend to add to any CK2 mod I use:

Spoiler

emperor_serbian;Car;Car;Car;;Car;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_female_serbian;Carica;Carica;Carica;;Carica;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_ruler_consort_serbian;Car;Car;Car;;Car;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_ruler_consort_female_serbian;Carica;Carica;Carica;;;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_prince_serbian;Knez;Knez;Knez;;Knez;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_prince_female_serbian;Kneginja;Kneginja;Kneginja;;Kneginja;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_queen_mother_female_serbian;Carica Majka;Carica Majka;Carica Majka;;Carica Majka;;;;;;;;;x
empire_of_serbian;Carstvo;Carstvo;Carstvo;;Carstvo;;;;;;;;;x
temple_emperor_serbian;Arhi-Patrijarh;Arhi-Patrijarh;Arhi-Patrijarh;;Arhi-Patrijarh;;;;;;;;;x
temple_empire_of_serbian;Visoka Patrijaršija;Visoka Patrijaršija;Visoka Patrijaršija;;Visoka Patrijaršija;;;;;;;;;x
city_emperor_serbian;Veliki Guverner;Veliki Guverner;Veliki Guverner;;Veliki Guverner;;;;;;;;;x
city_empire_of_serbian;Velika Republika;Velika Republika;Velika Republika;;Velika Republika;;;;;;;;;x
king_serbian;Kralj;Kralj;Kralj;;Kralj;;;;;;;;;x
king_female_serbian;Kraljica;Kraljica;Kraljica;;Kraljica;;;;;;;;;x
king_title_ruler_consort_serbian;Kralj;Kralj;Kralj;;Kralj;;;;;;;;;x
king_title_ruler_consort_female_serbian;Kraljica;Kraljica;Kraljica;;Kraljica;;;;;;;;;x
title_prince_serbian;Knez;Knez;Knez;;Knez;;;;;;;;;x
title_prince_female_serbian;Kneginja;Kneginja;Kneginja;;Kneginja;;;;;;;;;x
title_queen_mother_serbian;Kraljica Majka;Kraljica Majka;Kraljica Majka;;Kraljica Majka;;;;;;;;;x
kingdom_of_serbian;Kraljevstvo;Kraljevstvo;Kraljevstvo;;Kraljevstvo;;;;;;;;;x
temple_king_serbian;Patrijarh;Patrijarh;Patrijarh;;Patrijarh;;;;;;;;;x
temple_kingdom_of_serbian;Patrijaršija;Patrijaršija;Patrijaršija;;Patrijaršija;;;;;;;;;x
city_king_serbian;Vladar;Vladar;Vladar;;Vladar;;;;;;;;;x
city_kingdom_of_serbian;Republika;Republika;Republika;;Republika;;;;;;;;;x
duke_serbian;Vojvoda;Vojvoda;Vojvoda;;Vojvoda;;;;;;;;;x
duke_female_serbian;Vojvotkinja;Vojvotkinja;Vojvotkinja;;Vojvotkinja;;;;;;;;;x
duke_title_ruler_consort_serbian;Vojvotda;Vojvotda;Vojvotda;;Vojvotda;;;;;;;;;x
duke_title_ruler_consort_female_serbian;Vojvotkinja;Vojvotkinja;Vojvotkinja;;Vojvotkinja;;;;;;;;;x
duchy_of_serbian;Vojvodstvo;Vojvodstvo;Vojvodstvo;;Vojvodstvo;;;;;;;;;x
temple_duke_serbian;Arhiepiskop;Arhiepiskop;Arhiepiskop;;Arhiepiskop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_duchy_of_serbian;Arhiepiskopija;Arhiepiskopija;Arhiepiskopija;;Arhiepiskopija;;;;;;;;;x
city_duke_serbian;Posadnik;Posadnik;Posadnik;;Posadnik;;;;;;;;;x
city_duchy_of_serbian;Posadnikestvo;Posadnikestvo;Posadnikestvo;;Posadnikestvo;;;;;;;;;x
count_serbian;Grof;Grof;Grof;;Grof;;;;;;;;;x
count_female_serbian;Grofica;Grofica;Grofica;;Grofica;;;;;;;;;x
count_title_ruler_consort_serbian;Grof;Grof;Grof;;Grof;;;;;;;;;x
count_title_ruler_consort_female_serbian;Grofica;Grofica;Grofica;;Grofica;;;;;;;;;x
county_of_serbian;Oblast;Oblast;Oblast;;Oblast;;;;;;;;;x
temple_count_serbian;Mitropolit;Mitropolit;Mitropolit;;Mitropolit;;;;;;;;;x
temple_county_of_serbian;Mitropolija;Mitropolija;Mitropolija;;Mitropolija;;;;;;;;;x
city_count_serbian;Knez-Gradonacelnik;Knez-Gradonacelnik;Knez-Gradonacelnik;;Knez-Gradonacelnik;;;;;;;;;x
city_county_of_serbian;Veliki Gradstvo;Veliki Gradstvo;Veliki Gradstvo;;Veliki Gradstvo;;;;;;;;;x
baron_serbian;Bojar;Bojar;Bojar;;Bojar;;;;;;;;;x
baron_female_serbian;Bojarica;Bojarica;Bojarica;;Bojarica;;;;;;;;;x
baron_title_ruler_consort_serbian;Bojar;Bojar;Bojar;;Bojar;;;;;;;;;x
baron_title_ruler_consort_female_serbian;Bojarica;Bojarica;Bojarica;;Bojarica;;;;;;;;;x
barony_of_serbian;Baronija;Baronija;Baronija;;Baronija;;;;;;;;;x
temple_baron_serbian;Episkop;Episkop;Episkop;;Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_barony_of_serbian;Episkop;Episkop;Episkop;;Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
city_baron_serbian;Gradonacelnik;Gradonacelnik;Gradonacelnik;;Gradonacelnik;;;;;;;;;x
city_barony_of_serbian;Grad;Grad;Grad;;Grad;;;;;;;;;x
family_palace_baron_serbian;Burzuj;Burzuj;Burzuj;;Burzuj;;;;;;;;;x
family_palace_baron_female_serbian;Burzoazija;Burzoazija;Burzoazija;;Burzoazija;;;;;;;;;x
family_palace_barony_of_serbian;Kuca;Kuca;Kuca;;Kuca;;;;;;;;;x

These are some of the worst titles I have ever seen.
Buržuj? Seriously? That's French, and only appears faaaar later in time.
Buržoazija? No one in their right mind would take the title of "bourgeoisie".
Kuća is a bit too regular IMO, would go with something fancier like Palata, but otherwise, you know, good.
Bojar wasn't actually a title used in Serbia, it was in Bulgaria and Wallachia, however.
The duke=vojvoda is correct, however, it might be better if that title is veliki župan, because that way you represent the entirety of the period's titles a bit better. (his demesne being velika župa(nija), then you could have župan/župa(nija) for count titles)
Carica Majka is literal as all hell, but there isn't much of a better alternative unfortunately.