Oh I do hope you will enjoy it, Khitans are one of the centerpoints of our mod. If Sabratha gets better (she's somewhat ill atm) we might release a verison with a scripted Khitan invasion (so far its just history fuiles) and a bookmark.
[MOD] Silk Road
- Thread starter Shian
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Oh I do hope you will enjoy it, Khitans are one of the centerpoints of our mod. If Sabratha gets better (she's somewhat ill atm) we might release a verison with a scripted Khitan invasion (so far its just history fuiles) and a bookmark.
I've already coded a Khitan invasion for VIET for the next VIET update, I can give it to you guys ifyou're interested (I haven't tested it yet though). I should probably also remember to post my Khotanese and updated Tocharian namelist later today, come to think of it - you guys might find it handy.
Would appreciate both really, would save us worktime we can spend on other stuff. BTW, does your Khitan invasion have a "settle down" decision like the Magyars? That's the thing I was planning to have a decision that if the Khitans control chuy, then can make a capitla there, changing the culture to Khitan there and the religion to buddhist.
So, here is the mod version 0.9:
View attachment Silk Road Mod 0.9.zip
Its still in beta, so some bugs may be present. Feel free to report any.
What is in?
-11 new provinces,4 duchies, 1 kingdom covering the entire Tarim Basin
- Full history files for this region the entire gamespan
- Scripted Khitan invasion, tested and seems to work pretty well (considering they are buddhists)
- A special decision allowing the Khitans to settle down after they conquer Zhetysu (gets khitan culture and buddhist religion free in one province plus prestige and some income)
- A bookmark with the Khitan invasion just starting - take the role of Yelu Dashi and forge your own empire!
- Historical characters (both added in history files and in the scripted khitan events). Expanded Qarakhanid dynasty, khitan characters
- Now you can even play as Kuchlug and try to enact your vengance on Ghenghis Khan, your old enemy (for the hardcore gamers seeking a challenge).
- changes to the religion in the area - buddhist, manichean and nestorian regions play a big role
What is yet to be done?
- Chinese characters and events (similar to how jewish advisors function for the western states)
- Random events specific to the area. Chinese sages, reading passages from Sun Tzu, Silk road trade, Jurchen migrants and mercenaries etc.
- More corrections of vanilla (provinces, characters, new cultures)
- Full compatibility with the "Cultures and Portraits Revamp" mod
P.S
Scripting events is the achilles heel of our team. That's one thing we do not have experience in (we are much better at map and history files editing). So if anyone has experience in events and feels this mod is badass enough to participate, feel free to volunteer. We could use some help to expand on what we already have.
View attachment Silk Road Mod 0.9.zip
Its still in beta, so some bugs may be present. Feel free to report any.
What is in?
-11 new provinces,4 duchies, 1 kingdom covering the entire Tarim Basin
- Full history files for this region the entire gamespan
- Scripted Khitan invasion, tested and seems to work pretty well (considering they are buddhists)
- A special decision allowing the Khitans to settle down after they conquer Zhetysu (gets khitan culture and buddhist religion free in one province plus prestige and some income)
- A bookmark with the Khitan invasion just starting - take the role of Yelu Dashi and forge your own empire!
- Historical characters (both added in history files and in the scripted khitan events). Expanded Qarakhanid dynasty, khitan characters
- Now you can even play as Kuchlug and try to enact your vengance on Ghenghis Khan, your old enemy (for the hardcore gamers seeking a challenge).
- changes to the religion in the area - buddhist, manichean and nestorian regions play a big role
What is yet to be done?
- Chinese characters and events (similar to how jewish advisors function for the western states)
- Random events specific to the area. Chinese sages, reading passages from Sun Tzu, Silk road trade, Jurchen migrants and mercenaries etc.
- More corrections of vanilla (provinces, characters, new cultures)
- Full compatibility with the "Cultures and Portraits Revamp" mod
P.S
Scripting events is the achilles heel of our team. That's one thing we do not have experience in (we are much better at map and history files editing). So if anyone has experience in events and feels this mod is badass enough to participate, feel free to volunteer. We could use some help to expand on what we already have.
Last edited:
One of my favorite things about "Crusader Kings II" is learning about all these terms and cultures and geography. I know the Mongols only from middle school and high school World History, and because I've watched several hours of documentaries on the history of White Russia's Tsars. I've never heard of a Khitan, though I did know that Tibet was really decentralized because of its vast distance (and rather peaceful nature). After all, we never hear about Tibetan Buddhists uniting and turning all of Eastern Europe into their footstools.
One thing I hope we can end up seeing is playing as actual Mongolia proper. Imagine if you could start in 867 AD and unite the Mongolian lands! Then, YOU could fire the "Khan of Khans" event, get the doom stacks, and ROFL-stomp the entire earth EARLY! (If you fail to do so, though, the AI will fire the event anyway.)
One thing I hope we can end up seeing is playing as actual Mongolia proper. Imagine if you could start in 867 AD and unite the Mongolian lands! Then, YOU could fire the "Khan of Khans" event, get the doom stacks, and ROFL-stomp the entire earth EARLY! (If you fail to do so, though, the AI will fire the event anyway.)
Feels pretty good so far. A couple of problems I noticed though:
- The new cultures aren't localised.
- Building placement in the holdings is rather random; some holdings have no buildings, others have all the buildings, and others have some.
- The new cultures aren't localised.
- Building placement in the holdings is rather random; some holdings have no buildings, others have all the buildings, and others have some.
Hmm, looks like you coded your Khitan stuff more quickly than I expected. 
Feel free to compare your Khitan invasion with the one I've coded for the upcoming VIET update and take any parts of it you like. Anyhow, here are links to my Khotanese and (updated) Tocharian namelist, along with some dynasty names: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...w-Cultures&p=17263418&viewfull=1#post17263418
This is likely due to the fact that they're different religions, as different religion groups have different tech levels at the beginning of the game.
Feel free to compare your Khitan invasion with the one I've coded for the upcoming VIET update and take any parts of it you like. Anyhow, here are links to my Khotanese and (updated) Tocharian namelist, along with some dynasty names: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...w-Cultures&p=17263418&viewfull=1#post17263418This is likely due to the fact that they're different religions, as different religion groups have different tech levels at the beginning of the game.
Some stuff is not localised, we are aware of that. To be honest in 0.9 we concentrated on coding the khitan invasions and releasing the mod ASAP yesterday. The mod will be fully localized by 1.0
Building placement does seem to be religion related tbh. I'll double-check it though. LAck of the Kumtura barony in Kucha is a known bug tho, will be fixed by 1.0 (typo in holding files).
The vast majority of Mongolia proper is not on the map (even with ROI). So this is way beyond the scope of our mod. We plan to add new provinces within the current map, we do not plan to expand the map itself.
I noticed that many provinces are Muslim in the 1066 start; are you sure that this would be the case?
Certainly should be the case for Kashgar, Yarkand and Aksu. Probably also true of Hotan and its provinces (There it was a gradual shift and its entirely uncertain and debatable at which point the population became over 50% muslim).
Karakkhanids accept Islam in 937 and things move pretty quickly from there for the next 130 years.
Do you own TOG? The region (arguably) starts more interesting and certainly more diversified in 867. By 1066 its mostly a west Turkish sunni vs east Uighur Buddhist two way match.
Just had a look, and it seems you're correct. It just looks weird with the neighbouring provinces from vanilla still as Tengri or Zoroastrian; do you guys intend on tweaking them?
We will certainly look into vanilla provinces, as for now we pretty much concentrated on having our new provinces up and running and the Khitan events working.
Keep in mind that while we do plan to expand on this mod, we will be doing it in smaller bite-sized steps with subsequent versions. The roadmap is currently as follows:
- In other culture notions... we have been discussing new Iranian cultures. Sogdians are a must, but Sabratha also suggested making Dailami a separate culture in the Persian group. I'm not still certain of that, but tehre are good points for it, especially in the 800s.
- Polish up the regional events, add special silk road bonus modifiers to the silk road provinces.
- Add flavor chinese characters and related chinese events.
- Edit the 867 vanilla culture and country placements (countries, not provinces).
For a very unspecified futre ideas/addons/expansions:
-Iranian plateau, Ugro-Finnic and Slavic nations are certainly gonna get some attention. Sabratha already has some big plans for Mari people, as well as for the balkans including an independant Zachlumia and Pagania (yes, we are planning a historic pagan slavic nation in the balkans at 867).
- Fix some stuff aroudn the edges of the current vanilla map. Nothing really huge, but Sabratha suggested adding a few provinces, probably Udmurtia, parts of Nepal and some areas around Ghana.
- Sabratha had been previously working on an African mod. Now that the map edges in that part have changed in vanilla the mod will not work. But we do at some point consider expanding that part of the map somewhat. Again, nothing drastic but Takrur and Kano are two kingdoms and provinces we do want to see added, as they played an active role in the game's timeframe.
- We have been planning to give the Slavic and Ugro-Finnic religions some more attention, to bring them somewhat up-to par with the current vanilla Tengri and Norse faiths, which seem much more fleshed out and interesting to play.
Last edited:
Jeff van Dyck, composer of a lot of the music from the Total War series, also did some music for a 2002 game called Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom. He's released most if not all of it on his site.
The soundtrack in question is mostly Chinese inspired, though that's not entirely the case for many songs. Maybe some of these will fit well enough for a small soundtrack addition for the Khitans. "Journey of the Gu Qin" in particular strikes me as worth considering.
The soundtrack in question is mostly Chinese inspired, though that's not entirely the case for many songs. Maybe some of these will fit well enough for a small soundtrack addition for the Khitans. "Journey of the Gu Qin" in particular strikes me as worth considering.
If it interests you, I had a Finnish Pagan-themed update for VIET ages ago, that added features and flavor for the Finnish Pagans (you can see the dev diaries (here and here) I had on them, though they're slightly outdated). Feel free to take from it what you want.
I also had some West African map changes, including Takrur, that I removed for the current version of VIET, though I'll be reintroducing them at a later time (here is what they looked like; a future version will likely be different); you may be interested in that, just ask me if you want to look at the files. Additionally you may want to ask the SWMH team if they can show you some of the resources they used for the African portions of their map, they did considerable research for the region and will likely be more than happy to share their sources. And, if you're interested in West African flavor and mechanics, feel free again to borrow from VIET if you like any of it; I consider my West African themed update my current magnum opus of VIET's themed updates.
Slavic Pagans and Slavic stuff in general is also something I'm planning for the near future for VIET, in fact (it was originally planned for January, after a Khitan/Chinese-themed update in December, but my sickness conveniently got in the way), so I'll be happy to share ideas and research if you guys need it. As a minor note, concerning Pagania, that's also something I'm intending to add to the 867 start myself, but I can't find any sources on it besides Wikipedia, other than a couple of mentions in some arguably outdated scholarly texts.
Your Silk Road mod team must have Chinese.In other good news, we have just finished all the history files and we plan to release a beta 0.9 version of the mod tomorrow. We have some really nice historical characters to play around with, including Yelü Dashi and our lovable Mongol that we all love to hate: Küchlüg.
The 0.9 will feature the new 11 provinces, new cultures, history files from 867 to 1337 etc.
Events will come later. Neither of us is an expert in CK2 events, so they leave this for last and plan to release an event-less version first and foremost to those waiting impatiently.
PS - if anyone has any good info on Uighur rulers before 1220, please share!
Also, kara khitan khanate in 1200:
Also, does anyone know how to set a fixed flag for a buddhist kingdom?
I hope you know the relationship between Liao (遼) dynasty and Kara-Khitan Khanate (西遼) = Liao遼 and Western(西) Liao(遼) So,you shouldn't call this dynasty Kara-Khitan Khanate. You should call this dynasty Western Liao because they still use the Liao dynasty of the title. However, they were defeated by Jin dynasty (the rulers established Jurchen people=Manchus), fled to the original Liao dynasty on the west side of the territory. Therefore, they were called Western Liao. Although the Liao dynasty was founded by the khitans nomad, after they were been completely Chinesization by Song dynasty(China). The later of Liao dynasty their emperor only could speak Chinese and write Chinese characters. All of the political system same like Song dynasty(China). khitans also learned the Confucian culture and the worship of Confucius as teacher, so they were defeated by the new barbarian(Jurchen people=Manchus). About Muslims in Tarim, mid Western Liao period into a Muslim country(state religion became Muslim).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liao_dynasty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara-Khitan_Khanate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yelü_Dashi
Last edited:
Seems like perhaps you guys at VIET might consider collaborating with us, as we seem to be following along very similar lines at many points. Our mod was at first planned as mostly a map extension, but as usual the scope widens witch each new idea.
I have quite a bit of polish language written sources as far as slavic religion goes (well, what little there is left about it). There seems to have been some significant regional differences (Jaryło is not present among western slavs, Swarożyc on the other hand seems to be an exclusively western slavic diety). There are also some pretty strong debates concerning the identity of various names with particular dieties (eg: Is Perun the same guy as Swarożyc? Nyia = Morana etc.)
Generally there is little scientific consensus regarding those, so in any mod we would be forced to make some choices and "take sides" with one or the other anthropological theory.
Another issue is that concernign slavic traditions and mythology (unlike most other indoeuropean traditions) the line between demonology and dieties is often pretty blurred.
Your Silk Road mod team must have Chinese.
I hope you know the relationship between Liao (遼) dynasty and Kara-Khitan Khanate (西遼) = Liao遼 and Western(西) Liao(遼) So,you shouldn't call this dynasty Kara-Khitan Khanate. You should call this dynasty Western Liao because they still use the Liao dynasty of the title.
We are entirely aware of the connections between the KaraKhitan state and the Liao (take a look at the second screenshot in the #44 post in this thread).
However, after consulting our sources we have decided to use the Kara Khitan name instead of Laio. While the Khitans by all info we have did also refer to themselves as the Liao when they ruled in the east, after the fall of the last Liao Emperor this seems to have changed.
By the 1100s (and that's when they enter to our game) they are called the "Western Liao" only by the chinese (in regions that are outside the map). Seems that every group present on the game map at this point in time, (including the khitans themselves) used some for of the word "Khitan" to describe it.
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/qara-ketay
Thus the "Western Liao" seems to be exclusively a chinese exonym.
I like what I see concerning your mod for northern Ugro-Finnic pagans. However, have you thought about giving southern Ugro-Finnic groups a separate religion?
I'm asking because the Mari or Mordvin (and by extension, most likely Muromian and Merya) religion is quite different from taht of let's say Komi-Permyaks or Khanty. Its pretty removed from shamanistic practices of peoples like the Mansi and moreover it is much more structured, with a hierarchical male priesthood (called Karts).
Also the dieties themselves are different.
Last edited:
I would be interested in collaborating as well, even if that just means "you do this and I'll steal it for my mod, and I'll do this and you steal it for your mod".
Indeed I have found it difficult to find any consensus or clarity while looking up stuff for the Slavic pagans. At the end of the day I decided that as a flavor mod, for VIET it was more important to have something that seemed authentic but ultimately fun, rather than something accurate per se, and my plans for the Slavic pagans so far will be in that vein.
In VIET I decided to call the Kara-Khitan the Liao Empire. While they didn't call themselves as such per se, I felt the situation is a bit similar to calling the ERE the Byzanitne Empire instead of, say, the Roman Empire, in that the Liao Empire invokes the spirit of the Kara-Khitan Empire much better. Much of the Khitan's legitimacy in Central Asia was derived from them acting like the Chinese - in other words, the Khitan sort of conned the Muslim world into thinking they were China, and this was much of the reason why the Muslims put up with rule by supposed infidels: better to be ruled by the just, sophisticated, urbane but infidel Chinese than bloodthirsty Muslim warlords. Additionally it apepars the Kara-Khitan were still very much interested in returning to China, even as late as c.1200 they were making plans and sending scouting parties towards the Jurchen - obviously these never materialized into anything substantial. All in all, I decided to call them the Liao Empire in VIET to represent the important Chinese aspect of their realm, even if it is not the most accurate name per se; it is also why when I do get around to the Khitan-themed update of VIET, it will very much be a Chinese-themed update as well, because evne in Central Asia the Kara-Khitan kept many of their Chinese trappings, including Emperor styles and imperial exams. That said I can still see the case for calling them the Kara-Khitan, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
Anyhow, for the Kara-Khitan, I recommend Michal Biran's The Empire of the Qara Khitai in Eurasian History: Between China and the Islamic World. It is the only academic book dealing with the Kara-Khitan that I know of, and much if not all of the information I said above I got from this. Part of it is available on google books: http://books.google.com/books?id=B9...BwYCoBA&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBjge#v=onepage&q&f=false
I briefly considered making a Siberian paganism of sorts, for the Samoyeds and other folks in Siberia, and indeed overall the Finno-Ugric religion blob is arguably one of the worst religion blobs in CKII, but I decided against it since I really didn't want to deal with all the history changes I'd have to deal with (among other things). In the end when I did my Finno-Ugric pagan religion I decided to go along with what PI did and have a mishmash of stuff from different Finno-Ugric religions, though with much of that coming from the Finns.
