[MOD] Relativity - a balance and content mod
- Thread starter Naselus
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Interesting; I managed a 400+ year playthrough yesterday so it'll be one of the set of changes made after that. Any chance you can upload your error.log please? I'll do 0.99a once I've tracked the bug down.
Nevermind, error.log shows nothing. Have traced the problem to the weapons csv anyway
- 1
Looks like it was a div0 error in combat being caused by all windups being set to zero.Have set them all to 1 for the moment; now testing but it's gotten over a year in with no crash
We do want to flesh out the tech tree more, but right now we're prepping for 1.0, so it's not a top priority right now. But I agree that filler tech is not the best. As for the slow down, I'll be doing later game testing once I figure out the AI issues. While the slowdown is a problem, again you're really not intended to reach the end of the tree, at least for a long time. That being said, perhaps that means a lot more techs in smaller research costs chunks instead of the current system. Something to think about.
Thanks for the quick response and update!
I took the ,99a patch for a spin and made observed it for well over a year with no crashes. Seems like its fixed now.
I took the ,99a patch for a spin and made observed it for well over a year with no crashes. Seems like its fixed now.
- 1
3 things:
1. Ai seems to be working better. At least, most of them seem to have quite a few planets, so they're obviously not completely dead.
2. I don't seem to be able to edit defence platforms/stations/fortresses, which is a bit irksome, since I'm currently playing despotic empire specifically to have some awesome defence stations.
3. Can you move the ability to colonise stone age primitives to the middle native interference policy option - especially since you cut down on social tech in space, it's one of the main sources of society research (though possibly restrict the event which fires when you colonise a stone age primitive world to only allowing you to have the "limit our colony" option if you don't have unrestricted interference, if you feel it's necessary)?
1. Ai seems to be working better. At least, most of them seem to have quite a few planets, so they're obviously not completely dead.
2. I don't seem to be able to edit defence platforms/stations/fortresses, which is a bit irksome, since I'm currently playing despotic empire specifically to have some awesome defence stations.
3. Can you move the ability to colonise stone age primitives to the middle native interference policy option - especially since you cut down on social tech in space, it's one of the main sources of society research (though possibly restrict the event which fires when you colonise a stone age primitive world to only allowing you to have the "limit our colony" option if you don't have unrestricted interference, if you feel it's necessary)?
First of all, thanks for the great mod. It is indeed quite fun and interesting to play
Played 3 games (around 150 years first game, 250+ years the next two), here's a few things I've noticed.
1) First game I've played with the default settings. Research after getting to 400+ pops is just non-existent. Takes ears to research anything. Got bored, stopped.
2) Went into defines.lua and changed 'free' pops to 200, started another game. This time it got much better, research in the later stages of the game took a few years instead of 10+.
A thing to note, I haven't seen a single resource required for research facilities 4 and 5 in any of my playthroughs (the one is required by the 'T3' power plant).
AI seems to be doing pretty badly. While it does indeed colonize new worlds, I haven't seen a single AI Empire except the Fallen ones to have anything but 'pathetic' research, fleet power and naval capacity compared to me when looking at them 100+ years into the game.
Otherwise, the game was pretty fun.
A few 'general' things:
1) Are you going to incorporate the CaptainX3's New Ship Classes & More newer version (the one with the flagship present, 4-section dreadnaughts and battleships, etc.)?
2) Have you found a solution to the problem of the AI starving (a few of AI Empires did that, 3 colonies and all of them starving)?
3) I've noticed that the 'main' building that comes after the one that gives you 30 food (I think the 30 food one has the name Empire Capital-Complex) has a trigger 'Never'. So you can never upgrade to it. But you can research it and the one after that. I suspect that's not working as intended.
4) Defense platforms are pretty useless. You get them very late in the tech tree and you can't edit them (which is really strange). So you have defense platforms with like 1k power when you have fleets with 30k+.
Played 3 games (around 150 years first game, 250+ years the next two), here's a few things I've noticed.
1) First game I've played with the default settings. Research after getting to 400+ pops is just non-existent. Takes ears to research anything. Got bored, stopped.
2) Went into defines.lua and changed 'free' pops to 200, started another game. This time it got much better, research in the later stages of the game took a few years instead of 10+.
A thing to note, I haven't seen a single resource required for research facilities 4 and 5 in any of my playthroughs (the one is required by the 'T3' power plant).
AI seems to be doing pretty badly. While it does indeed colonize new worlds, I haven't seen a single AI Empire except the Fallen ones to have anything but 'pathetic' research, fleet power and naval capacity compared to me when looking at them 100+ years into the game.
Otherwise, the game was pretty fun.
A few 'general' things:
1) Are you going to incorporate the CaptainX3's New Ship Classes & More newer version (the one with the flagship present, 4-section dreadnaughts and battleships, etc.)?
2) Have you found a solution to the problem of the AI starving (a few of AI Empires did that, 3 colonies and all of them starving)?
3) I've noticed that the 'main' building that comes after the one that gives you 30 food (I think the 30 food one has the name Empire Capital-Complex) has a trigger 'Never'. So you can never upgrade to it. But you can research it and the one after that. I suspect that's not working as intended.
4) Defense platforms are pretty useless. You get them very late in the tech tree and you can't edit them (which is really strange). So you have defense platforms with like 1k power when you have fleets with 30k+.
I'll be looking at re-introducing this stuff at some stage, but the guy working on stations disappeared after a week or two leaving it unfinished and, tbh, quite a bit broken. We'll probably also ditch government requirements for making them, since I don't really see any reason why only despots can build them.
Probably. I intend to make stone age prims act like other primitives (and un-uplifteds) at some point, since it's bizarre that they have no pops when non-sentients do.
Actually yeah I noticed that too. You'd get tier 1 ones at the same level as cruiser, which seemed ... eh. I'd have put it at either destroyer or the tech between destroyer and cruiser at the latest...
I think anyone can build them? Despotic empires just get MEGA-stations as their autocratic compensating-for-something? superstructure. Again I may be mistaken, though.
You need to build more research centers then
The percentage of your population that needs to be dedicated to research to maintain the same speed increases very rapidly, and that's intentional; it prevents snowballing.It's definitely out there; in my observe games there usually one every 5-6 systems.
Yeah, Energico is now working full-time on getting the AI to behave so hopefully we'll see more improvement in this area, though tbh the AI is pretty hard to control.
Elements of it, yes. Probably not going to bother with the flagship.
Tempted to just junk the nutrient system and have food as a global resource. Since it no longer gives a growth bonus, there's little reason to use nutrients as a proxy now.
Whoopsie, that'll be a leftover from when it was added but not 'ready'. That'll get stripped out for the next release.
Yeah, we'll make them editable again I think.
Thanks a lot for the answers
I am not sure how can I build more, to be honest. I already had like 6 (2 of each) on planets that are at least 16 in size and 9 (3 of each) on planets that are at least 20 in size. And even when I edited the 'free' pops to 200, I still had researches that were over 10 years long when having 500+ pops. It just seems this system favours small empires much much more compared to the larger ones.
Very strange, haven't seen a single one in my two 250+ years games. I might have just been unlucky. While we're on the page of rare resources, zro is EXTREMELY rare. I mean, 1-2 systems per 1/4 of the galaxy rare, as it seems. Is that intended?
That's very nice to hear
Ooh that's too bad Playing with a 5-section Flagship is really fun. Kinda gives you a 'hero' ship that you love and care about. Oh well. I hope you at least keep the 4-sectioned Battleships, Carriers and Dreadnoughts. Because as of right now, you can easily make a battlecruiser that is much more cost effective since they both have the same amount of sections.
Yeah, I've always thought food should be a global resource, even in the base game. It's kinda strange that giant space empires cannot manage transporting food from planet to planet.
That's nice to hear
Yeah, I'd say making the smallest ones available at destroyer tech would be a good idea too, since they're around the same 'power'
I've also recalled a few things I noticed and forgot to mention:
1) Is terraforming still there? I haven't gotten to it once (perhaps it's there after countless world habitability +5% researches, just never got to it)?
2) Power hubs are pretty useless. You will always get more if you just spam the banking system thingie. Perhaps the banking building should be made planet unique? Also, I have never seen a technology that allows power hubs to go beyond level 2.
3) Are there any upgrades for mineral silos beyond level 3? Or is level 3 the maximum for the mod?
4) Are the resources from the vanilla game that allow for the construction of station facilities that improve specific things for the ships built on them going to be reintroduced? Or are they gone for good? (Like Lythuric gas that allows you to construct +% shields station module)
5) Have you thought about incorporating ZBeautiful Battles mod? It makes the game much more beautiful and helps FPS during battles at the same time.
You need to build more research centers then
I am not sure how can I build more, to be honest. I already had like 6 (2 of each) on planets that are at least 16 in size and 9 (3 of each) on planets that are at least 20 in size. And even when I edited the 'free' pops to 200, I still had researches that were over 10 years long when having 500+ pops. It just seems this system favours small empires much much more compared to the larger ones.
Very strange, haven't seen a single one in my two 250+ years games. I might have just been unlucky. While we're on the page of rare resources, zro is EXTREMELY rare. I mean, 1-2 systems per 1/4 of the galaxy rare, as it seems. Is that intended?
That's very nice to hear
Ooh that's too bad
Playing with a 5-section Flagship is really fun. Kinda gives you a 'hero' ship that you love and care about. Oh well. I hope you at least keep the 4-sectioned Battleships, Carriers and Dreadnoughts. Because as of right now, you can easily make a battlecruiser that is much more cost effective since they both have the same amount of sections.Yeah, I've always thought food should be a global resource, even in the base game. It's kinda strange that giant space empires cannot manage transporting food from planet to planet.
That's nice to hear
Yeah, I'd say making the smallest ones available at destroyer tech would be a good idea too, since they're around the same 'power'
I've also recalled a few things I noticed and forgot to mention:
1) Is terraforming still there? I haven't gotten to it once (perhaps it's there after countless world habitability +5% researches, just never got to it)?
2) Power hubs are pretty useless. You will always get more if you just spam the banking system thingie. Perhaps the banking building should be made planet unique? Also, I have never seen a technology that allows power hubs to go beyond level 2.
3) Are there any upgrades for mineral silos beyond level 3? Or is level 3 the maximum for the mod?
4) Are the resources from the vanilla game that allow for the construction of station facilities that improve specific things for the ships built on them going to be reintroduced? Or are they gone for good? (Like Lythuric gas that allows you to construct +% shields station module)
5) Have you thought about incorporating ZBeautiful Battles mod? It makes the game much more beautiful and helps FPS during battles at the same time.
Last edited:
- 2
Hello! I just found this mod and I am really interested to try it! I was wondering... Is it on steam or I just have to come here to check up the update (I am not complaining, just a question for QOL)
For now, the mod is only on here as it is tested, the bugs are sorted out and features implemented. Naselus does plan on moving it onto the workshop come the 1.0 version (we are on .99a version right now, so soon!).
Steam release is planned for some point next month. It's a massive overhaul and so until we've finished the beta, it's exclusively available here.
- 2
- 2
Thanks a lot for the answers
*snip*
I've also recalled a few things I noticed and forgot to mention:
1) Is terraforming still there? I haven't gotten to it once (perhaps it's there after countless world habitability +5% researches, just never got to it)?
2) Power hubs are pretty useless. You will always get more if you just spam the banking system thingie. Perhaps the banking building should be made planet unique? Also, I have never seen a technology that allows power hubs to go beyond level 2.
3) Are there any upgrades for mineral silos beyond level 3? Or is level 3 the maximum for the mod?
4) Are the resources from the vanilla game that allow for the construction of station facilities that improve specific things for the ships built on them going to be reintroduced? Or are they gone for good? (Like Lythuric gas that allows you to construct +% shields station module)
5) Have you thought about incorporating ZBeautiful Battles mod? It makes the game much more beautiful and helps FPS during battles at the same time.
I'll answer a couple of these:
1. Yes, terraforming is still in the game. Terraforming is currently unlocked after researching tile blocker techs, it is not related to the habitability ones. Once you research the techs for Sinkholes, volcanoes, and glaciers, you can research the terraforming tech. In a previous update, I also included the ability to terraform the extreme worlds too, but that's a long arduous process.
I don't believe I changed the prereqs for this tech either, so this should be similar to vanilla. It's possible it could be made available earlier or the prereqs could change. I'll look into that, but its not going to be easier if it is made earlier.
2. There are only 2 levels to power hubs. Banks would have to be buffed to make them planet unique, but I'll leave economy balance to Naselus.
3. Yes, only 3 levels of Silos.
- 1
Figured you guys need an update as to what we're currently doing, since we've been quiet on here for the past couple of weeks. We've been working on the mod every day, however; our slack channel is never quiet We just didn't think hearing about very incremental changes to obscure back-end stuff would be particularly exciting for anyone.
I have Energico chained to a PC in a small room somewhere endlessly rehashing the AI, over and over again, so that we actually have something that can play the game. He's seeing a great deal of success so far, including better tech choices, better building placement, faster AI colonization, better policy choices, and we've managed to teach it to use outposts again. We're still working on it, particularly teaching it to follow the research curve more effectively. Players should be find a significantly more challenging and entertaining experience on that side.
I, meanwhile, have been struggling to get to grips with how the hell mandates work, which is frustratingly opaque but is the final piece in the faction/leader/pops puzzle. In addition, I'm consolidating updates to a lot of the mods we have absorbed into Relativity, so expect to see many more of CaptainX3's new ship classes being brought in, and some updates to the Civ trade module.
We're also looking at just plain dumping Nutrients and making food a global resource instead, since it no longer speeds up POP growth and so we might as well dump the proxy. This should again help the AI out a lot, and get rid of the problem of having AI empires which fail to grow due to abandoning their farm or what have you.
On top of this, the tech tree is being refined and made more tree-like, so that there's central tech lines which act as 'milestones' to unlock the branches; this should make it easier not only to direct the AI as to which techs to go for, but also make it easier for the player to receive relevant technologies at different parts of the game. We've trying to strike a balance here so that there's still a lot of freedom in the order you pick technologies, but not so much that the random tech listing makes it hard for the player to find what he wants, when he wants it.
Now, because of the troubles we've been having with Mandates, and getting the AI to do as we wish, we've postponed 1.0 until after Heinlen is out. That way, I can consolidate Paradoxes changes into the mod at the same time so that when we go live on Steam, we have everything up and working.
We just didn't think hearing about very incremental changes to obscure back-end stuff would be particularly exciting for anyone.I have Energico chained to a PC in a small room somewhere endlessly rehashing the AI, over and over again, so that we actually have something that can play the game. He's seeing a great deal of success so far, including better tech choices, better building placement, faster AI colonization, better policy choices, and we've managed to teach it to use outposts again. We're still working on it, particularly teaching it to follow the research curve more effectively. Players should be find a significantly more challenging and entertaining experience on that side.
I, meanwhile, have been struggling to get to grips with how the hell mandates work, which is frustratingly opaque but is the final piece in the faction/leader/pops puzzle. In addition, I'm consolidating updates to a lot of the mods we have absorbed into Relativity, so expect to see many more of CaptainX3's new ship classes being brought in, and some updates to the Civ trade module.
We're also looking at just plain dumping Nutrients and making food a global resource instead, since it no longer speeds up POP growth and so we might as well dump the proxy. This should again help the AI out a lot, and get rid of the problem of having AI empires which fail to grow due to abandoning their farm or what have you.
On top of this, the tech tree is being refined and made more tree-like, so that there's central tech lines which act as 'milestones' to unlock the branches; this should make it easier not only to direct the AI as to which techs to go for, but also make it easier for the player to receive relevant technologies at different parts of the game. We've trying to strike a balance here so that there's still a lot of freedom in the order you pick technologies, but not so much that the random tech listing makes it hard for the player to find what he wants, when he wants it.
Now, because of the troubles we've been having with Mandates, and getting the AI to do as we wish, we've postponed 1.0 until after Heinlen is out. That way, I can consolidate Paradoxes changes into the mod at the same time so that when we go live on Steam, we have everything up and working.
- 7
- 7