I need to think about it further. I'd like to represent the tagmata but I don't want Byzantium to be OP.
[Mod] Project: Augustus - A Roman Realism Mod
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Maybe Byzantium as a state could automatically have reduced vassal levies overall but a higher tax rate, to be able to support the tagmata.
I could edit the theme system law to only have two options, Inactive (With the massive levy/tax penalty for late game Byzantium) and Active (Which gives nothing). If I restore the 0.8 maximum levy command for viceroyalties then Byzantium would probably have the same troops numbers, but with half of them mercenaries. The average maximum levy for Byzantium is around 40,000 men, so if I reduce it to say 30,000 men and then add in the four tagmata (Which are 4,000 men each) I'll end up with 56,000 men, which isn't too far off the mark, but is still very high.
The Byzantine Empire might be very OP in 1066 though, because it had around 40,000-50,000 tagmata troops (6,000 from each of the main tagmata, 4,000 from two new tagmata, and the rest from the foreign Hetaireia regiments). Then again, Byzantium only lost in 1071 because half of Romanos' 40,000 men abandoned him. He could very well have won, or at least forced Alp to turn back. The Byzantine army actually retreated from Manzikert in good order, it wasn't the massacre it's usually portrayed as. The civil war which followed Romanos' capture and eventual blinding is what ruined the empire and destroyed the themes, allowing the Turks access to Anatolia.
If I did add the tagmata, Byzantium would begin in 769 with the Scholae Palatinae (Scholai by now) and the Excubitors (Now known as the Exkoubitores), each 4,000 men strong. Two more tagmata, the Arithmos (Watch) and Hikanatoi (Able Ones) would be available in 867, each 4,000 men strong, giving a total of 16,000 mercenary troops, or 22,000 if you include the Varangian Guard (Which was also considered to be a tagmata unit). There's also the Noumeroi (Number, included the men who manned the Theodosian Walls) and the Optimatoi (Originally a guard unit, but later became an elite logistics unit), which were guarded Constantinople.
By 1066, the four main tagmata would rise to 6,000 men each (Something I can't portray in-game unless I made larger clones), and the Hetaireia would have become a major part of the army. There's not much information on the Hetaireia, but it's probable it was around 4,000-6,000 men strong. There's also the short lived tagmata of the 10th century emperors, such as the Immortals, but they are so minor that I can essentially ignore them. Anyway, in total, Byzantium would have access to 36,000 mercenary troops in 1066, 90% of which would disappear after 1078. Some of the tagmata continued into Alexius' time (The Varangians and Hetaireia), but they never fully recovered.
I could add a decision to allow Byzantine players to revive the tagmata after 1078 if they have the money, but this seems much too complicated for me. We are talking here about tens of thousands of troops, more if you want Rome to have legions. If I gave the Roman Empire ten legions of 5,000 men each, that's 50,000 men at your direct command. I honestly thing I'd rather use retinues to represent the tagmata and the legions. I added a legionary retinue for Roman culture characters, and the tagmata were all heavy cavalry (Expect for the Varangians, of course), which the cataphract retinue covers really well. I could rename the cataphracts to tagmata to make it more historical.
I would like to do something to boost retinue numbers for Rome and Byzantium at the expense of levy numbers. If I could do this, and find a way to make the Byzantine Emperors start with pre-formed cataphract/tagamta retinues, I could represent the tagmata much better. Mercenary units are difficult because you can't change the sizes and the cost necessitates you give a realm more money, which can lead to it becoming a superpower. The Byzantine Empire was certainly strong in the Middle Ages, but it wasn't the superpower it was before Islam. I've tried boosting retinue numbers through laws, but it doesn't seem to work. The administration laws would work well for this.
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You would need to apply a modifier. Laws will not accept the modifier codes as a parameter hence why you cannot interfere with the retinue caps with laws alone. The other option is to enable a province building, which has to be built but adds retinue cap increases.
I'm going to try to get it to work with the SWHM map but that's it.
Perhaps consider a garrison building, that you build in your holdings to increase the retinue percent ? You can limit the construction to your capital province as well to ensure no obscene numbers. Just be aware that somewhere around the 2 million mark the retinue cap wraps over.
Btw, regarding the Roman retinue: I don't think you can have 3 different troops in a retinue.
with your implementation of the Macedonian empire, have you considered making any improvements to the Persians or a Perso-Greek culture, such as including some of the stuff from the Zoroastrianism expanded mod??
Yeah, no disagreement here that just having the tagmata / legions and retinues would be way too much.
My idea - I got no knowledge how that would work - would be to add a modifier (maybe a copy of the freshly-conquered modifier?) to the provinces if the players revive the Tagmata. This would essentially give the player the choice between having the Tagamata or levies. Say one tagmata gives you 10% less levies etc. and this scales up. If I am not mistaken, this is also what you already intend to do.
With the legions, I am not sure if a straight legion revival would be a good choice, considering they were outdated tactical doctrine at that point. If anything, it probably would be more of a heavy combined arms formation akin to the late Roman legions / byzantine armies, meaning ~ a 20/40/20/20 split of skirmishers, heavy inf., archers and cav. Maybe it would be worth tying them to a kingdom - like for example you can raise one or two via decision once you reconquer the kingdom of Italy. Obviously raising such a professional army should disable all levies from that kingdom (except maybe for a 10% emergency levy?).
Anyway, forgive my rambling, I just wanted to toss a few things out there. I am not sure if these ideas are codable.
I gave Zoroastrians the ability to make women generals and I've given them special CBs to help them reform the Persian Empire. The reconquest CB covers the de jure Persian Empire and the subjugation CB covers the territory of the former Achaemenid empire. I'll be giving them reconquest events at some stage (The Macedonians will be getting similar events).
All of those ideas are do-able and what I intend to do after Christmas.
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Yes, I just realised that. I'm torn between heavy infantry and pikemen with morale boosts or heavy infantry and cavalry with offensive boosts. The Roman army concentrated on a mix of offensive and defensive fighting, with a large focus on stabbing actions. The legionaries were trained to stab and advance in formation, as were the comitatenses/limitanei and their Byzantine equivalents. The emphasis of both armies was on keeping friendly loses low while killing the enemies best troops. The Roman army didn't really use spears or pikes, but the Byzantine army was known to be more flexible (The Varangians were allowed to use axes if they pleased).
This is my to-do list for the next update, which should be out sometime within the next week:
- Either special retinue buildings or a retinue province modifier to better represent standing armies.
- Reconquest events for Macedonia which will cover Alexander's empire. The events themselves will give prestige.
- Reconquest events for Persia which will cover the old Achaemenid empire. These events will also give you prestige.
- More flavour events for Hellenic rulers, including a special event chain which deals with the famous Oracle at Delphi.
- Either special retinue buildings or a retinue province modifier to better represent standing armies.
- Reconquest events for Macedonia which will cover Alexander's empire. The events themselves will give prestige.
- Reconquest events for Persia which will cover the old Achaemenid empire. These events will also give you prestige.
- More flavour events for Hellenic rulers, including a special event chain which deals with the famous Oracle at Delphi.
Im really enjoying this mod, keep up the good work. In my current Macedonia game, Ive noticed that the cult, sacrifice, odyssey performance and choose high priest events are missing text in the option buttons.
That's a Paradox bug. I assume it will be fixed in the next patch.
In a way I liked the idea of having a boosted version of the knight retinue. Sure, cavalry isn't what the Romans back in the day were know for but this is a resurgence of the Roman empire and Roman culture. Heavy infantry was the dominant "unit" earlier but now heavy cavalry is the thing. Surely they are keeping up with current events.
Besides, having an army composed entirely of HC, LC and HA's is just fun! :laugh: And ungodly expensive but that's beside the point.
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