[Mod] Project: Augustus - A Roman Realism Mod

[christopher0936]

The mongols werent Manichaean, the Uyghurs were

yep. my bad

 

[christopher0936]

You seem to be getting your terms confused.

Iranian Zoroastrianism was Mazdaist, not Mazdakist. Mazdak was a 6th century prophet who founded the heretical Mazdakist sect, which focused on poverty and charity. The Iranian church blended elements of Zurvanism and Mazdaism (Vanilla Zoroastrianism) in order to keep both sides happy. Some emperors went more towards Zurvan, while others went more towards Ahura Mazda, but the compromise remained. After the fall of the Sassanid Empire, the Zoroastrian church purged itself of its Zurvanist elements and adopted Mazdaism as its sole creed.

Officially, Mazdaism was the sole creed of the Sassanid church, but there was an unofficial tolerance of Zurvanists.

So what does vanilla "Zoroastrian" represent then? The blended Zurvanis, and Mazdaism?

and is the Mazdaki heresy in game therefore this prophet and unrelated or?

 

[omega20056]

So what does vanilla "Zoroastrian" represent then? The blended Zurvanis, and Mazdaism?

and is the Mazdaki heresy in game therefore this prophet and unrelated or?

Vanilla Zoroastrian is Mazdaism. Zurvanism can rise as a heresy of that, and is present in some areas of Persia in 769. Mazdaki is in vanilla and the mod, with a church structure and a focus on charity as mod additions.

 

[christopher0936]

Vanilla Zoroastrian is Mazdaism. Zurvanism can rise as a heresy of that, and is present in some areas of Persia in 769. Mazdaki is in vanilla and the mod, with a church structure and a focus on charity as mod additions.

there is no Zurvanism in vanilla.

There is Zoroastrian and it's heresies Manichean and Mazdaki

 

[starwarsfan541]

there is no Zurvanism in vanilla.

There is Zoroastrian and it's heresies Manichean and Mazdaki

I'm writing a dev diary in a bit, I'll reexplain Zoroastrianism in it

 

[starwarsfan541]

Dev Diary: Caucuses Khazars and some other stuff

769 Culture Map
Changes from previous versions
New Cultures;
-Aghbanian (Caucasian Albanian)
-Awaral (Caucasian Avar)
-Circassian
-Nakh

Awaral, Circassian and Nakh are all playable as tributaries of the Khazars
Aghbanian will be playable after fixing some of the char history in Armenia that shouldnt be Armenian

Mandaeic was moved a bit to be more historical/ pluasible
Panjabi represents the Indians moved from Sindh/ Punjab by the Sassanids and early Caliphate, they had a rebellion in the 700s or 800s
Somali is there for a similar reason, the area became depopulated and many East African slaves were brought in to replace the peasantry as it seemingly was a plantation economy set up, they are Sunni in 769

Also if you look at the area south of Damascus, the map has been altered to be more correct with Druz and Suwaidia being moved to more accurate locations south of Damascus

One fun fact is that Samo-Thracian Paganism survived in a good ammount in Thrace until the Bulgars converted to Christianity
Religion Map, we will revist this in a few minutes for a explanation on Zoroastrian sects and how they are represented in the mod

Two new de jure kingdoms Sogdiana and Aghbania

Mesopotamia and Persia will be adjusted in time as well, Alania possibly as well, or at least more cultural localization for the king tier title

Updated political map for the Khazars
The Alans, Nakh, Caucasian Avars, Circassians, some of the Magyar nomads (up to the river), Yaik, Volga Bulgaria and the periphery Mordvins are tributaries
Also Volga Bulgaria is partially Manichean

Extra few provinces (4-5) for this area

Event 1
Khazar Conversion event has been modified

Optional Event 2

Now the Khazars have a chance of turning Nestorian, Buddhist or Manichaen
The original was also fixed to use Imperial instead of Orthodox

Explaining Zoroastrian Heresies
Mazdaism/ Zoroastrianism normal (what eventually lead to the one remaining in India from what i understand)
Vanuhism = Sogdian Zoroastrianism, syncretic with other faiths and polytheistic (Will explain their flavor at a later date)
Zurvanism = The deity Zurvan a likely pre Zoroastrian deity is placed as the main deity (he is the deity of time and destiny I believe)
Mazdakism = Heresy of Zoroastrian, very important in Azerbaijain/ Northern Persia. Focus on Charity, communal living and the such/ Turned into the Khurramites

In future earlier bookmarks there would be more Zoroastrian heresies

This religion was at times in favor and other times out of favor at the Sassanid court, it quickly dissipated after the Arabic Conquests

Manichaeism is its own religion within the Iranian category
Mandaeism is its heresy atm, they will be receiving 1-2 more in the fuutre

Yazidi is also in the Iranian religion group but a heresy of Sunni
​

 

[TomTheKnight]

Why is Yazidi a Sunni heresy?

 

[starwarsfan541]

Why is Yazidi a Sunni heresy?

Because it kinda is. It has a fairly complicated origin involving someone related to a Caliph or something like that, Omega explains it better

 

[TomTheKnight]

Because it kinda is. It has a fairly complicated origin involving someone related to a Caliph or something like that, Omega explains it better

Not a caliph, a sheik. yazidi should be an independent religion under the iranian group

 

[omega20056]

Not a caliph, a sheik. yazidi should be an independent religion under the iranian group

No, he was descended from a caliph, Marwan I. Yazidi is an independent Iranian faith that is also a Sunni heresy because Yazidis have been historically persecuted by Islam.

 

[christopher0936]

This religion was at times in favor and other times out of favor at the Sassanid court, it quickly dissipated after the Arabic Conquests
​

​

which religion? Mazdakism?

Yazidi is also in the Iranian religion group but a heresy of Sunni​

you can do this? heresies in different religious groups?

 

[omega20056]

Yes, heresies in different religion groups are possible.

 

[TomTheKnight]

No, he was descended from a caliph, Marwan I. Yazidi is an independent Iranian faith that is also a Sunni heresy because Yazidis have been historically persecuted by Islam.

just because it was persecuted doesnt make it a heresy. under this same logic, judaism should be a heresy of christianity and islam

 

[l1l1l1l1]

just because it was persecuted doesnt make it a heresy. under this same logic, judaism should be a heresy of christianity and islam

True that

 

[omega20056]

Yazidi otherwise will be an independent religion with no heresies. The Muslims called the Yazidi Satanists and persecuted them as such. This is why it needs to remain a heresy.

 

[l1l1l1l1]

Yazidi otherwise will be an independent religion with no heresies. The Muslims called the Yazidi Satanists and persecuted them as such. This is why it needs to remain a heresy.

Indian religions have no heresies too, huh? The second reason has already been debunked, why don't we make Judaism a Christian heresy?

 

[Zarathustra_the]

To be honest, historically speaking, Yazdi and Islam has much a similar relation as Orthodox did to Catholicism. And it would perhaps warrant a similar extension of the schism mechanism, whereby a dominant religion can reach a point at which the other can be declared a heresy. Logically speaking, doing such between Christianity and Islam would also make sense depending on which source of the Prophet's life one uses.

Even within Islamic teachings there is an implicit recognition of Islam as a de-facto heresy of Christianity, alongside a de-facto assertion of Christianity itself being a heresy of Judaism. All the faiths of the book and their derivations should in my view be capable of being forcibly united within one doctrine, but that is getting onto some topics which are politically dangerous

 

[Zarathustra_the]

History aside, now for a theology lesson, if we wish to look at heresies defined along the mechanics we see in game in contradistinction to their parent faiths, Yazdi should not be a heresy of anything nor should a bunch of religions for a single functional purpose, there was no doctrinal struggle. A doctrinal struggle seems to be the key function of the mechanics of a heresy in game, and we see this most readily in history with the Fratacelli's and the Protestant Reformation, (Well Luther's reformation, not Calvin's or Cromwell's, though Cranmer arguably attempted this also.) The Cathars likewise did not seek to overthrow mainstream Catholicism nor did they seek the legitimacy of the Papacy. In contrast the Iconoclasts certainly did.

What does this mean for the game, well if you wish to mirror the history there should be more religions and less heresies. While the difference between a heresy and a religion are quite indecipherable at times, any religious practice that does not seek to engage in an internal doctrinal battle for supremacy is in strict theological terms not a heresy, it is a new cult or a nascent religion.

 

[starwarsfan541]

Ok, so change what religions have heresies, and instead redo the heresy spreading event to spread various religions based on era, region, culture etc?

I personally like that

 

[l1l1l1l1]

Ok, so change what religions have heresies, and instead redo the heresy spreading event to spread various religions based on era, region, culture etc?

I personally like that

I like that idea too