[MOD] Princes of Darkness (Vampires, Werewolves, etc...)

[ngppgn]

Beyond the wars which is mostly about the biggest doomstacks, isn't CK2 one giant succession crisis after another? Setting default succession to Gavelkind and changing it will piss off any childer. Allow for adventurers and uprisings for culture/covenant conflict. Covenant wars (Holy wars), and Clan wars (at one time, I had that in the code).

I don't see any need for us to further complicate CK2's robust succession crisis system. We just have to pick the thematically appropriate default succession for clans and covenants. I may have already done a little of that.

Was thinking more of a "some barons seize power when the prince unexpectedly dies" sort of thing. A vampire going to tormpor should trigger a normal inheritance. Talking more about intriguing than about warfare.

 

[flintsparc]

So, the observer game I started with the latest hot code is still running! Yay!
That's a 1250 bookmark, and its made it to 1720. So that is stable atleast in observer mode.

Some observations.

Large Ventrue dynasties dominate holdings. LARGE dynasties. One of the largest is the Russian Tzimisce. How large? The bad news is that it has 5886 living members. The good news is that it has 9450 members. Which means that without disease... through primarily murders, executions and wars--38% of the great Russian Tzimisce dynasty has been killed off. Which is a lot of murder in any family!

Spoiler

Succession is such in Russian Tzimisce land that a huge number of claims can exist. Like this lucky fellow. While he doesn't lack for claims and he has a good intrigue to go about murdering, he has a different problem. His demense limit is 1. This is caused setting the game rules at the start to quarter demense.

Spoiler

The are few characters that rise above 2 demense. They have one thing in common, they are over their limits. In this case, the vampire with the largest demense is an upstart Gangrel pesant leader that is 412 years young. If he dies, its Gavelkind. Oh, and like many elders, he's possessed. So that's nice.

Spoiler

The characters with the highest stewardships can only have a demense limit of 2.

The largest realm is held by the King of Anatolia. The Rex Nemorensis Theodoros the Holy, Greek, Circle of the Crone, Ventrue, of the Euryale dynasty. His realm size is 122. That's a whole lot of vassals. The game rule here is unrestricted number of vassals. He has 16 vassals. They provide most of his 22,593 army; he's over his demense limit at 2 holdings. His own demense only allows him to levy 4,531. The Greek Euryale dynasty seems to have a lot more murders than the Russian Tzimisce; Euryale has 1126 "living" members and 2256 total members. So that's a death rate of 49.9%. With all that vassals and all that army, Theodoros still hasn't managed to make his claim on Constantinople.

Spoiler

Covenant spread is still a good mix and are in good places with nothing too weird. Dynasties too.

So, my thoughts on this build is:

Increase the number of independent vampire dynasties beyond the current setting of 95% of vampire lords being from one of the five principle dynasties of the five clans in their culture area. (There is a Russian Tzimisce dynasty, and its different than the Polish Tzimisce dynasty, etc...). Maybe go for 50%?

Increase the demense to half of vanilla rather than a quarter. A quarter does a great job of limiting a vampire lord to one to two holdings. But they can't even take control of all the baronies in their county, much less become a Duke. I think allowing Demense of 3 to 5 (depending on stewardship) might be the sweet spot.

Maybe decrease number of vassals from unrestricted, to less than that but more than vanilla.

I'm thinking we should write some future events that decrease the number of unlanded immortals laying about court. Frenzy, vampire hunters, masquerade breaches, lupines ridding the world of wyrm taint, getting caught outside without sunscreen, etc.... maybe get the fatality rate for vampires up to 75% per major dynasty. One reason to do this is all these immortal characters will eventually bog down the performance of the game.

Anyone else have any thoughts about the latest hot code?

 

[NightAvail]

It would be really nice to use random vampire hunters (as you suggested) to kill off no-player characters with no titles (perhaps as a start?). The latest version, starting at 767 works pretty well for me Thanks for the update!

You'll probably want to set a recent_attacked flag for characters that survived a hunter attack. That way they can breath a little before getting attacked again heh.

 

[flintsparc]

It would be really nice to use random vampire hunters (as you suggested) to kill off no-player characters with no titles (perhaps as a start?). The latest version, starting at 767 works pretty well for me Thanks for the update!

You'll probably want to set a recent_attacked flag for characters that survived a hunter attack. That way they can breath a little before getting attacked again heh.

767... I don't think it has a way for Mages to create apprentices. But... if a new character is randomnly generated for a holding, they will be a supernatural and most likely a Mage at that bookmark.

 

[NightAvail]

I like to use that bookmark as it seems to be the only one that I can actually use the Ruler Designer with. I'm not quite sure how I can use the ruler designer with the other bookmarks (perhaps I'm doing something wrong). Most of my attempts (unless the province doesn't start off with a vampire culture), tends to end with a randomly generated character.

 

[flintsparc]

I like to use that bookmark as it seems to be the only one that I can actually use the Ruler Designer with. I'm not quite sure how I can use the ruler designer with the other bookmarks (perhaps I'm doing something wrong). Most of my attempts (unless the province doesn't start off with a vampire culture), tends to end with a randomly generated character.

When you are at province picking, there is no supernatural covenants (religions) for provinces. That all gets started when you hit "Start Game".

I do see what you mean though. I tried to make a custom vampire with the rule designer, and it created a random one for me. I suspect I know what the problem is and will investigate.

 

[vuIkan]

I manage to get the mod to work but it crashes on january 1st

 

[ngppgn]

I manage to get the mod to work but it crashes on january 1st

Are you using the hot code? Which bookmark are you using?

 

[vuIkan]

I am using the hotcode, and I should have added I was using 1355, I did try the 1250 one which does work, but it seems it's only VTR clans are in that one where I would much prefer the VTM ones

 

[ngppgn]

IIRC there is a bug in event CWOD_vampire_noble.1 (which is the responsible for seeding the VTM clans). That might be the responsible. I hope to catch that missing/exceeding bracket ASAP!

 

[hiigara128]

Another Question: in the former version of Princes of Darkness there was very few, if any, canon characters in the mod. So do you have plans to add more in, like Mithras, Hardestadt the Elder, Etienne de Poitiers ex ex? And followup, will we see the de-jure realms that existed in the dark ages, ie the Fiefs of the Black Cross, the Baronies of Avalon, the Sea of Shadows ex ex, added as well?

 

[ngppgn]

Yes, but me hanics take precedence over history scripting. Unless more help is provided!

 

[flintsparc]

Another Question: in the former version of Princes of Darkness there was very few, if any, canon characters in the mod. So do you have plans to add more in, like Mithras, Hardestadt the Elder, Etienne de Poitiers ex ex?

Depended on the version of Princes of Darkness that was being played. Past builds has had Mithras, Hardestadt the Elder, Etienne de Poitiers, etc.... We will be adding those back. I added Caine, the Antediluvians and some of the Methusalahs two days ago. Take a look at that POD_CWOD_Vampire_Characters.txt file. If anyone wants to contribute more canon characters, that'd be welcome.

And followup, will we see the de-jure realms that existed in the dark ages, ie the Fiefs of the Black Cross, the Baronies of Avalon, the Sea of Shadows ex ex, added as well?

Yes, we've had that as well. See:

The art and code for for those titles still exists. We mostly just need to redo some title history work to match with the character history.

 

[Admiral Boysen]

I think he's asking to make them de jure.

 

[flintsparc]

I think he's asking to make them de jure.

Here are the rules we were using for DAV 1230 AD:

Spoiler

# DAV War of Princes
e_fiefs_of_the_black_cross = {
color = { 102 0 51 }
capital = 496 # Germany
culture = german
dignity = 100
short_name = yes
title = "Elder"
title_female = "Elder"
allow = {
trait = venture
culture = german
religion = vampire_high_clans
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 500
piety = 500
realm_size = 50
has_global_flag = bookmark1230
}
gain_effect = {
}
}

e_ashirra = {
color = { 255 178 102 }
capital = 496 # Medina
culture = levantine_arabic
caliphate = yes
controls_religion = ashirra
short_name = yes
dignity = 100
title = "Caliph"
title_female = "Calipha"
allow = {
religion = ashirra
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 500
piety = 500
realm_size = 15
OR = {
has_global_flag = bookmark1230
has_global_flag = bookmark1500
}
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
e_inconnu= {
color = { 176 196 222 }
capital = 239 # Geneve, Burgundy, Switzerland
culture = frankish
short_name = yes
caliphate = yes
controls_religion = inconnu
dignity = 100
title = "Prince"
title_female = "Prince"
allow = {
religion = inconnu
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 500
piety = 500
realm_size = 15
OR = {
has_global_flag = bookmark1230
has_global_flag = bookmark1500
}
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
# Independents

e_assamites = {
color = { 210 105 30 }
capital = 663 # Alamut, Rayy (Tehran) Hamadan Persia
culture = persian
caliphate = yes
controls_religion = assamites
short_name = yes
dignity = 100
title = "Eldest"
title_female = "Eldest"
allow = {
religion = assamites
trait = assamite
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 500
piety = 500
realm_size = 15
OR = {
has_global_flag = bookmark1230
has_global_flag = bookmark1500
}
}
gain_effect = {
}
}


e_ravnos = {
color = { 25 25 25 }
culture = hindustani
caliphate = yes
controls_religion = mayaparisataya
short_name = yes
dignity = 100
allow = {
religion = mayaparisataya
trait = ravnos
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 500
piety = 500
realm_size = 10
has_global_flag = bookmark1500
}
gain_effect = {
}
}


e_midgard = {
# Domain of Odin, the All-Father
color = { 102 102 0 }
dignity = 5
capital = 290 # Uppsala
creation_requires_capital = no
culture = norse
title = "THE_ALL_HIGH"
title_female = "CRONE"
allow = {
culture = norse
trait = gangrel
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
OR = {
religion = circle_of_the_crone
religion = einherjhar
}
prestige = 1000
piety = 1000
realm_size = 50
}
gain_effect = {
}
}

e_voivodate = {
# Transylvannia
color = { 102 102 0 }
dignity = 5
title = "VOIVODE_OF_VOIVODES"
title_female = "VOIVODE_OF_VOIVODES"
capital = 539 # Bistritz, Marmaros,
creation_requires_capital = no
culture = romanian
allow = {
OR = {
culture = romanian
culture = serbian
culture = bulgarian
culture = croatian
culture = bohemian
culture = russian
culture = polish
}
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
OR = {
AND = { religion = koldun
trait = tzimisce
has_global_flag = bookmark1230 }
AND = {
religion = circle_of_the_crone
trait = ventrue }
}
prestige = 1000
piety = 1000
realm_size = 50
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
e_sea_of_shadows = {
color = { 0 0 0 }
dignity = 5
title = "LORD"
title_female = "QUEEN"
capital = 343 # Syrakousa, Sicily
culture = italian
allow = {
OR = { trait = lasombra
AND = { trait = ventrue
OR = { has_global_flag = bookmark1142
has_global_flag = bookmark1250
}
}
}
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 1000
piety = 1000
realm_size = 50
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
e_avalon = {
color = { 255 0 0 }
title = "LORD"
title_female = "QUEEN"
dignity = 5
capital = 32 # London, Middlesex, England
culture = saxon
short_name = yes
allow = {
OR = {
trait = daeva
trait = venture
trait = mekhet
trait = toreador
trait = lasombra
}
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 1000
piety = 1000
realm_size = 25
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
e_love = {
color = { 178 0 0 }
dignity = 5
title = "KING"
title_female = "QUEEN"
capital = 112 # Paris, Valois, France
culture = frankish
allow = {
OR = {
trait = daeva
trait = venture
trait = mekhet
trait = toreador
trait = lasombra
}
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 1000
piety = 1000
realm_size = 50
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
[/code]

Are folks suggesting that we delete de jure titles for Kingdom of Germany, HRE, etc... ?

 

[hiigara128]

Here are the rules we were using for DAV 1230 AD:

Spoiler

# DAV War of Princes
e_fiefs_of_the_black_cross = {
color = { 102 0 51 }
capital = 496 # Germany
culture = german
dignity = 100
short_name = yes
title = "Elder"
title_female = "Elder"
allow = {
trait = venture
culture = german
religion = vampire_high_clans
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 500
piety = 500
realm_size = 50
has_global_flag = bookmark1230
}
gain_effect = {
}
}

e_ashirra = {
color = { 255 178 102 }
capital = 496 # Medina
culture = levantine_arabic
caliphate = yes
controls_religion = ashirra
short_name = yes
dignity = 100
title = "Caliph"
title_female = "Calipha"
allow = {
religion = ashirra
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 500
piety = 500
realm_size = 15
OR = {
has_global_flag = bookmark1230
has_global_flag = bookmark1500
}
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
e_inconnu= {
color = { 176 196 222 }
capital = 239 # Geneve, Burgundy, Switzerland
culture = frankish
short_name = yes
caliphate = yes
controls_religion = inconnu
dignity = 100
title = "Prince"
title_female = "Prince"
allow = {
religion = inconnu
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 500
piety = 500
realm_size = 15
OR = {
has_global_flag = bookmark1230
has_global_flag = bookmark1500
}
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
# Independents

e_assamites = {
color = { 210 105 30 }
capital = 663 # Alamut, Rayy (Tehran) Hamadan Persia
culture = persian
caliphate = yes
controls_religion = assamites
short_name = yes
dignity = 100
title = "Eldest"
title_female = "Eldest"
allow = {
religion = assamites
trait = assamite
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 500
piety = 500
realm_size = 15
OR = {
has_global_flag = bookmark1230
has_global_flag = bookmark1500
}
}
gain_effect = {
}
}


e_ravnos = {
color = { 25 25 25 }
culture = hindustani
caliphate = yes
controls_religion = mayaparisataya
short_name = yes
dignity = 100
allow = {
religion = mayaparisataya
trait = ravnos
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 500
piety = 500
realm_size = 10
has_global_flag = bookmark1500
}
gain_effect = {
}
}


e_midgard = {
# Domain of Odin, the All-Father
color = { 102 102 0 }
dignity = 5
capital = 290 # Uppsala
creation_requires_capital = no
culture = norse
title = "THE_ALL_HIGH"
title_female = "CRONE"
allow = {
culture = norse
trait = gangrel
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
OR = {
religion = circle_of_the_crone
religion = einherjhar
}
prestige = 1000
piety = 1000
realm_size = 50
}
gain_effect = {
}
}

e_voivodate = {
# Transylvannia
color = { 102 102 0 }
dignity = 5
title = "VOIVODE_OF_VOIVODES"
title_female = "VOIVODE_OF_VOIVODES"
capital = 539 # Bistritz, Marmaros,
creation_requires_capital = no
culture = romanian
allow = {
OR = {
culture = romanian
culture = serbian
culture = bulgarian
culture = croatian
culture = bohemian
culture = russian
culture = polish
}
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
OR = {
AND = { religion = koldun
trait = tzimisce
has_global_flag = bookmark1230 }
AND = {
religion = circle_of_the_crone
trait = ventrue }
}
prestige = 1000
piety = 1000
realm_size = 50
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
e_sea_of_shadows = {
color = { 0 0 0 }
dignity = 5
title = "LORD"
title_female = "QUEEN"
capital = 343 # Syrakousa, Sicily
culture = italian
allow = {
OR = { trait = lasombra
AND = { trait = ventrue
OR = { has_global_flag = bookmark1142
has_global_flag = bookmark1250
}
}
}
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 1000
piety = 1000
realm_size = 50
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
e_avalon = {
color = { 255 0 0 }
title = "LORD"
title_female = "QUEEN"
dignity = 5
capital = 32 # London, Middlesex, England
culture = saxon
short_name = yes
allow = {
OR = {
trait = daeva
trait = venture
trait = mekhet
trait = toreador
trait = lasombra
}
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 1000
piety = 1000
realm_size = 25
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
e_love = {
color = { 178 0 0 }
dignity = 5
title = "KING"
title_female = "QUEEN"
capital = 112 # Paris, Valois, France
culture = frankish
allow = {
OR = {
trait = daeva
trait = venture
trait = mekhet
trait = toreador
trait = lasombra
}
trait = vampire
NOT = { trait = werewolf }
prestige = 1000
piety = 1000
realm_size = 50
}
gain_effect = {
}
}
[/code]

Are folks suggesting that we delete de jure titles for Kingdom of Germany, HRE, etc... ?

Yes I'm suggesting that. After all we're playing in the shadow world, not the mortal one, so in my opinion it makes more sense to remove the mortal titles and replace them with the various Shadow realms of the Dark ages.

 

[flintsparc]

Yes I'm suggesting that. After all we're playing in the shadow world, not the mortal one, so in my opinion it makes more sense to remove the mortal titles and replace them with the various Shadow realms of the Dark ages.

Could you provide a list?

Here is what I have for canon:

Dark Ages Vampire (1230/1355 Bookmarks):

• Baronies of Avalon (Ventrue England, parts of Scotland and the Duchy of Aquitaine) (canon)
• Courts of Love (Toreador Western France) (canon)
• Fiefs of the Black Cross (Ventrue Magdeburg (and areas east), Cologne, Munich, Leipzig and various fiefdoms along the Rhine River and the northern Alps (mainly Bavaria)) (canon)
• Sea of Shadows (Lasombra Iberia, Sicily, Mediterranean islands and coastal regions, Byzantium) (canon)
• Voivodate (Tzimisce Carpathia)
• Midgard (Odin's Norse lands) (canon, but my name)
• Midnight Crescent (Ashirra; Holy Lands and Islamic Kingdoms of the Mediterranean) (canon)
• Obertus Landholds (Obertus ghoul family, Olt Valley, Balkans, Livonia) (canon)

Requiem (1142/1250 Bookmarks):

• Ager Sanguinis (Lancea Sanctum Crusader States of the Levant) (my invention)
• Grémio de Corajoso (Ventrue Portugal) (canon)
• Duchy of Ireland (Palladius, Duke of Ireland, Ventrue, Lancea Sanctum) (canon)

So, with just that list, it would leave most duchies and kingdoms not having titles. I do think having Charlemagne DLC, rulers can create a custom de jure kingdoms and empires based off the name of their primary duchies.

 

[ngppgn]

Some points:

-The Tzimisce lands should be se0arated principialities instead of one unified realm.

-In 1230 Byzantium is divided between several relams, aking to the successor states post-fourth crusade.

-athe wotanist/odinist lands should cover only part of Scandinavia. Since parts of it were already christianised. In particular, Denmak was under some sort of regency council-slash-pwrtition-slash-non aggresion pact.

-By the time the Iberian lasombra were more divided by the christian/muslim conflicts of the "Shadoe reconquista" to be really following the Sea of Shadows' obedience, nd the italian leadership had more or less left them on their own.

-The steppes should be controlled by Anda acompanying the mongol hordes.

-The finno ugric areas should probably be divided in Noiad OPMs or similar.

-The baltic lands should be divided between the german high clans, mostly Ventrue, supporting the Teutonic Order, and the Baltic pagans, which IIRC were said to be koldunic... So mostly Tzimisce?

That said, I shoudl reread Dark Ages:Europe.

 

[flintsparc]

-The Tzimisce lands should be se0arated principialities instead of one unified realm.

Isn't Vladimir Rustovitch the Voivode of Voivodes?

 

[flintsparc]

worked out the issues with Masquerade bookmarks after a lot of work turning the giant POD_CWO_vampire_noble.txt into several different scripted triggers and scripted effect files.

This is a 1355 Dark Ages Vampire bookmark on observer play through 1626. There was an intial crash at the first auto-save, but after loading the save... it ran very smooth and fast.

This is with Demense Size: Half. No demense seems larger than 3. Some of the realms are large though, even with default restrictions on number of vassals.

Spoiler