[MOD] NBRT+ , a complete map upgrade package

[EOOQE]

It was Eooqe that made it for AGoT IIRC which was the first mod to have it. He also did a version for vanilla aswell(probably the one in the pic) but I don't think it was ever released.

Correct, but never released or will be as "standalone". As im "Retired from Modding Szene" here at the Paradox Forum, sadly
So , sadly no more new Versions of NBRT+ for CK2 and EUIV , only some last "Hotfixes" will be released.

Sorry guys , but im not longer able to tolerate the lack of communication and the arrogance of some Paradox Employees...

 

[Phibs]

Honestly this stopped being relevant after swmh-exclusivity + roi release imo.

Integrating a map mod into some of the biggest mods available for both ck2 and eu4 always seemed like an odd decision to me.
One would be interesting to pretty much everybody, while the other is highly niche at best.

On the drama with pdox I can't really comment, but I have yet to see other modders (of mods I follow) make similar complains.

 

[Aasmul]

Correct, but never released or will be as "standalone". As im "Retired from Modding Szene" here at the Paradox Forum, sadly
So , sadly no more new Versions of NBRT+ for CK2 and EUIV , only some last "Hotfixes" will be released.

Sorry guys , but im not longer able to tolerate the lack of communication and the arrogance of some Paradox Employees...

That's very sad news, HIP won't be the same without its texture wizard
Its also a big loss for the Paradox forums, your graphical work is without equal my friend.

 

[Aasmul]

Honestly this stopped being relevant after swmh-exclusivity + roi release imo.

Integrating a map mod into some of the biggest mods available for both ck2 and eu4 always seemed like an odd decision to me.
One would be interesting to pretty much everybody, while the other is highly niche at best.

To the tens of thousands of people who have enjoyed EOOQE's graphics while playing CK2 and EU4 with HIP and M&T, NBRT+ is far from irrelevant.

On the drama with pdox I can't really comment, but I have yet to see other modders (of mods I follow) make similar complains.

That's because thankfully few other modders have gone through what EOOQE did(no I don't think it benefits anyone ripping up in old wounds by expanding on what happened), safe to say he got enough reasons to be dissatisfied and apparently there haven't been much in the way of concrete devlopments to ensure that it wouldn't reoccur.
Also I think you will find that most modders in these forums who have spend that much effort on their project can relate to his feelings about certain rules and the way they have been utilized, even if they don't voice it publicly.

 

[Phibs]

To the tens of thousands of people who have enjoyed EOOQE's graphics while playing CK2 and EU4 with HIP and M&T, NBRT+ is far from irrelevant.

Total numbers are not the point. Though I would like to know the numbers for HIP/SWMH pre- and post-ROI release.

[...]

I'd guess the numbers for CK2 to be non too dissimilar.

Point being that the reach for EOOQE's work could've been far greater.
The reasoning seemed to be mostly personal relationships with the HIP and MEIOU modders.
Which is a rather questionable reason imo.

Also I think you will find that most modders in these forums who have spend that much effort on their project can relate to his feelings about certain rules and the way they have been utilized, even if they don't voice it publicly.

Actually I won't. If there's something wrong with pdox's policies the modders should speak up (in a unified manner if possible)

 

[Aasmul]

Total numbers are not the point. Though I would like to know the numbers for HIP/SWMH pre- and post-ROI release.
Point being that the reach for EOOQE's work could've been far greater.
The reasoning seemed to be mostly personal relationships with the HIP and MEIOU modders.
Which is a rather questionable reason imo.

Personal relationships is one of the reasons we do this, its fun working on things you enjoy togther with friends. Secondly EOOQE wanted control of how his work was spread due to the reasons I mentioned previously, and third the NBRT+ lite in HIP functions perfectly with the vanilla map, SWMH is in no way required. The graphics differentiating NBRT+ from NBRT+ lite has to be custom fitted to the projection used which is a ton of work.

Actually I won't. If there's something wrong with pdox's policies the modders should speak up (in a unified manner if possible)

Actually you would the argument goes on for the next 8-9 pages(Korbah's post on page 15 sums up the situation very well). that is the last time this argument was raised(11 previous pages was also more or less the same), and you will find at least one dev from every EU4 and CK2 mod with a subforum speaking up in that last round. And trust me every single other Paradox modder I have talked about the rules with feels exactly the same about those rules as those speaking up.

 

[Phibs]

Personal relationships is one of the reasons we do this, its fun working on things you enjoy togther with friends. Secondly EOOQE wanted control of how his work was spread due to the reasons I mentioned previously, and third the NBRT+ lite in HIP functions perfectly with the vanilla map, SWMH is in no way required. The graphics differentiating NBRT+ from NBRT+ lite has to be custom fitted to the projection used which is a ton of work.

1 Friendship + mods = magic. Granted. Exclusivity does not necessarily follow.
2 You did not previously mention reasons (you merely alluded to their existence). Nor do I ask for them.
3 You were talking about graphics so I automatically assumed NBRT+ (not lite) to be the topic of conversation. In this very thread people have posted how to get NBRT+ terrain to work without SWMH (admittedly pre-ROI).

Actually you would the argument goes on for the next 8-9 pages(Korbah's post on page 15 sums up the situation very well). that is the last time this argument was raised(11 previous pages was also more or less the same), and you will find at least one dev from every EU4 and CK2 mod with a subforum speaking up in that last round. And trust me every single other Paradox modder I have talked about the rules with feels exactly the same about those rules as those speaking up.

"even if they don't voice it publicly."

By definition I wouldn't.

But alright.
Looking at the thread you linked the argument seems to be about ways and means of delivery or more to the point - the ability to advertise on these forums and on the steam workshop to offsite third party sites and hosts (moddb for example). On the problem itself I can offer no comment.

Both HIP and MEIOU manage and continue. EOOQE's work was a part (a submod) of those mods.
If either HIP or MEIOU modders closed shop I could see the argument for this particular case. IF.
Of course that's pure speculation. EOOQE's reasons are his and I do not question them.


But that's besides the point.
My point was that NBRT+ became - in my opinion - irrelevant post ROI-release, mostly due to being tied to SWMH.
Integrating a texture/map mod with an overhaul mod never made sense to me, because the former would find a much larger audience than the latter (again my opinion).

There was and is demand (a bad word for it... interest maybe?) for a CK2 vanilla texture/map mod.
EOOQE's was THE best as far as I can tell.

That would've been a success story waiting to happen. Alas it was not to be.


And don't get me wrong SWMH and HIP (for MEIOU I can't say - I never tried) are exceptional mods and I have nothing but respect for the people putting in a lot of work creating them.
I hope none of my statements implied this to be otherwise.

 

[elvain]

1 Friendship + mods = magic. Granted. Exclusivity does not necessarily follow.

As Aasmul stated above, there is no exclusivity of NBRT+ and SWMH, did you notice it So I think you could stop usig this false premise

 

[Phibs]

[...] and third the NBRT+ lite in HIP functions perfectly with the vanilla map, SWMH is in no way required. The graphics differentiating NBRT+ from NBRT+ lite has to be custom fitted to the projection used which is a ton of work.

As Aasmul stated above, there is no exclusivity of NBRT+ and SWMH, did you notice it So I think you could stop usig this false premise

Ok now I'm confused. (See bolded part)

 

[elvain]

Ok now I'm confused. (See bolded part)

in the quoted text, did you miss the part "SWMH is no way required"? or "functions perfectly with vanilla map"?

 

[Phibs]

in the yuoted text, did you miss the part "SWMH is no way required"? or "functions perfectly with vanilla map"?

He wrote lite.

Ok maybe I'm talking nonsense but here's my understanding of it:

There's two version of NBRT. NBRT+ and NBRT+lite. Lite does not require SWMH and works with vanilla. NBRT+ does not.

Edit: Actually looking at OP it's light, not lite.

Edit2: From OP:

NBRT+ Compatibility Checklist :

NT+(NewTextures) : Vanilla CK2 / SWMH MOD

 

[Arko]

HIP is not an overhaul and no mod is integrated thanks to the modular nature of the project.
you can install and use every single composing mod as a standalone.
only NBRT+ includes a handfull of files dedicated to SWMH. but a "light" version exists.
so where is there a problem ?

 

[Phibs]

HIP is not an overhaul and no mod is integrated thanks to the modular nature of the project.
you can install and use every single composing mod as a standalone.
only NBRT+ includes a handfull of files dedicated to SWMH. but a "light" version exists.
so where is there a problem ?

I don't see how any of that invalidates anything I said but ok, here we go:

SWMH in its OWN THREAD

Spoiler

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...al-history-mod.-For-a-superior-CK2-experience

states that it is a comprehensive map overhaul.

I know HIP is modular. (Which I applaud, seriously that's a GOOD THING)

But even when talking about SWMH (necessitated by non-light NBRT+) by most people's definition you're talking about an overhaul.
Not that the definition is important per se, but it's a very large, comprehensive mod.

And if you can't see the difference between the light and the non-light version of NBRT+, I cannot help you.

EOOQE's terrain texture work makes a heck of a difference.
Or would make a difference. So there's the "problem". I am in fact a fan of his work. But even before his retirement, that seized to matter.

I still enjoy CK2 very much (and still use NBRT+Light). But a standalone CK2 terrain texture mod (NBRT+) would be wildly popular.
As is, I will play out CK2 without it, content in the knowledge that financial success will ensure a CK3.

 

[Arko]

adding textures to the lite version is not very hard if you really want to.
you can even use a pre-HIP version that does that.

 

[Meneth]

I don't see how any of that invalidates anything I said but ok, here we go:

SWMH in its OWN THREAD

Spoiler

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...al-history-mod.-For-a-superior-CK2-experience

states that it is a comprehensive map overhaul.

I know HIP is modular. (Which I applaud, seriously that's a GOOD THING)

But even when talking about SWMH (necessitated by non-light NBRT+) by most people's definition you're talking about an overhaul.
Not that the definition is important per se, but it's a very large, comprehensive mod.

And if you can't see the difference between the light and the non-light version of NBRT+, I cannot help you.

EOOQE's terrain texture work makes a heck of a difference.
Or would make a difference. So there's the "problem". I am in fact a fan of his work. But even before his retirement, that seized to matter.

I still enjoy CK2 very much (and still use NBRT+Light). But a standalone CK2 terrain texture mod (NBRT+) would be wildly popular.
As is, I will play out CK2 without it, content in the knowledge that financial success will ensure a CK3.

NBRT+ as it exists for SWMH has to my knowledge never existed for vanilla.
That is, only the lite version has ever worked with vanilla. When EOOQE expanded upon NBRT+ to add a lot of awesome stuff, that had to be custom-made for the projection. He chose to do that for SWMH rather than vanilla.
The work was never done for vanilla, but the vanilla version of NBRT+ was never reduced in size; it just didn't get some of the new stuff that had to be based on the projection.

I hope that helps explain the situation.

 

[Phibs]

adding textures to the lite version is not very hard if you really want to.
you can even use a pre-HIP version that does that.

Funny, couple of quotes up I was told it would be a "ton of work".
Which is it? (rhetorical question)

NBRT+ as it exists for SWMH has to my knowledge never existed for vanilla.
That is, only the lite version has ever worked with vanilla.

Fact, as stated by myself.

When EOOQE expanded upon NBRT+ to add a lot of awesome stuff, that had to be custom-made for the projection. He chose to do that for SWMH rather than vanilla.
The work was never done for vanilla, but the vanilla version of NBRT+ was never reduced in size; it just didn't get some of the new stuff that had to be based on the projection.

I hope that helps explain the situation.

But making a vanilla version would've been "not very hard", right?

Seriously, let's not kid each other, the situation did not need explanation.
I'm quite content with the way things are.

All I'm saying is that EOOQE's work (which again I regard to be exceptional) could've benefited a much larger audience.
It didn't. And now it won't.

 

[Meneth]

But making a vanilla version would've been "not very hard", right?

Seriously, let's not kid each other, the situation did not need explanation.
I'm quite content with the way things are.

All I'm saying is that EOOQE's work (which again I regard to be exceptional) could've benefited a much larger audience.
It didn't. And now it won't.

Some aspects of the full version wouldn't be hard to port. All the ones custom to the projection would be.

 

[zijistark]

Almost every major mod within HIP contains special modules to provide special features for each every other major mod in combination with it, yet works when installed on its own.

EOOQE apparently liked the SWMH map so much as to create special content for it and not bother to create that same special content for vanilla. So what?

I'm just hoping that NBRT+ Light keeps working once Charlemagne hits with its snow/climate effects. I couldn't imagine having to play the 769 start in full vanilla map gore, let alone SWMH without pretty borders.

 

[Phibs]

Some aspects of the full version wouldn't be hard to port. All the ones custom to the projection would be.

Even if the portable aspects were worth the hassle (I don't know which aspects these are) I can't see a new mod or port like this emerging.
EOOQE would have to give permission, another modder would have to pick up the project, etc etc.
I don't see it happening.

Almost every major mod within HIP contains special modules to provide special features for each every other major mod in combination with it, yet works when installed on its own.

EOOQE apparently liked the SWMH map so much as to create special content for it and not bother to create that same special content for vanilla. So what?

Posts 173 & 176

I'm just hoping that NBRT+ Light keeps working once Charlemagne hits with its snow/climate effects. I couldn't imagine having to play the 769 start in full vanilla map gore, let alone SWMH without pretty borders.

Same here.

 

[Arko]

All I'm saying is that EOOQE's work (which again I regard to be exceptional) could've benefited a much larger audience.
It didn't. And now it won't.

Largest audience is not always what a modder wants