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The Koppen climate mod is surely one of the main issues when talking about RAM issues.... but I'm sure there are a lot more. I've been planning to address this issue for a long time, I'm just not certain what's causing the rest of the slowdowns.
This is good news. I would strongly support anything that improves performance, 70 years in I'm already starting to feel the pain. Enough pain that I'll probably end up upgrading my rig despite being a cheap bastard, but some people probably don't have that luxury.

This is the Europa Barbarorum of CK2 in terms of detail and immersion.
Truth. Also off topic but ah, such memories.

randomguyx posted 8 years ago:
I can't wait for this mod [EB2] to come out!
 
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Numahr

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Dear folk of Lux Invicta!

Are you having a hot debate with your neighbor about whose religion is the most widespread? Please don't get your weapons! Instead, as an outside effect of my current work on holy orders, I bring to you the ranking of the world's religions by number of provinces:

(some really interesting stuff, and some things I would not have guessed! for example Druidic > Zoroastrian, or the top 3... )


Catholic 97
Forn Siðric 57
Manichaean 47
Mithraic 36
Arian 27
Wodanazic 21
Orthodox 21
Mithraic-Christian 20
Sunni 20
Hibernicist 18
Pelagian 15
Solar-Christian 15
Antinomian 13
Rodnoveric 13
Voipel'ean 13
Suomenuskan 12
Ghazi Islamic 12
Druidic 11
Shia 11
Gökh Tanrili 11
Gurzili 10
Zoroastrian 10
Perunic 9
Solar-Imperial 9
Mani Tanrili 9
Dažbogite 8
Graeco-Roman 8
Ilm Islamic 8
Yehudi 8
Serer 8
Dragomirist 8
Eosphorist 8
Semipelagian 8
Svetovidan 8
Firner Situic 7
Ibadi 7
Jupiterite 7
Ahrimanic 7
Svarogan 7
Alexandros-Ammonite 6
Almaqahi 6
Chumbylatic 6
Ilmattarenpalvoja 6
Jumalanpalvoja 6
Kharijite 6
Luwian 6
Melkite 6
Nestorian 6
Rod Tanrili 6
Unctionist 6
Yahyanist 6
Yorùbá 6
Christo-Zalmoxian 6
Ash'ari 5
Bogomilist 5
Cathar 5
Dievasic 5
Irminsulic 5
Lughite 5
Wulfilist 5
Euskalist 5
Mazdakist 5
Monophysite 5
Scandinist 5
Ófriðartrívaric 5
Rodic 5
Imperial Cultist 5
Apollo-Heliosean 5
Apollo-Boreasean 5
Ts'ähäy Mahremite 5
Vattisen Yalist 5
Zalmoxian 5
Angra Mainyui 5
Zurvanite 5
Buddhist 4
Druze 4
Indo-Hellenic Hindu 4
Pyromantic 4
Yahweh Sabaothite 4
Murji'i 4
Peckolsic 4
Saulic 4
Ash-Shamsi 4
Al-Shams Islamic 4
Óðinn-Sólar 4
Sowiloic 4
Velesic 4
Adoptionist 3
Amanaii 3
Amunite 3
Athari 3
Audianist 3
Beelshameni 3
Docetist 3
Donatist 3
Haruri 3
Indo-Hellenic Buddhist 3
Theomachian 3
Marabouti 3
Monothelite 3
Mu'tazili 3
Neoplatonic 3
Elohimi 3
Perkunan 3
Priscillian 3
Qarmatian 3
Ragnarökric 3
Slavic Christian 3
Solar-Manichaean 3
Renatus Solisean 3
Teiwazic 3
Ahriman Tanrili 3
Aglibôli 2
Atenist 2
Attari 2
Cybelite 2
Indo-Hellenic 2
Malakbêlite 2
Ruha d-Qudshai 2
Mandaean 2
Marcionist 2
Platonic Islamic 2
Porphyryan 2
Sabellianist 2
Sethoitae 2
Horsic 2
Solomonic Christian 2
Ta'labi 2
Yazidi 2
Zahiri 2
Apogenesianist 2
Kurembori 2
Zoroastrian Hindu 2
Al-Lati 1
Apollinarist 1
Amazigh 1
Gandharan Buddhist 1
Buddhist-Zoroastrian 1
Ra-Horakhtic 1
Hubali 1
Illuyankan 1
Isetite 1
Arôn Habrîtan 1
Khawdash Siyunic 1
Montanist 1
Platonic Christian 1
Platonic Pythagorean 1
Sutahi 1
Solomon-Alexandrian 1
Sufi 1
Tarhuntite 1
Buda Tanrili 1
Valentinian 1
Yazdâni 1
 
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DarkReborn

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Really intersting, I did not expect the Manicheans and the Mithraics so high. By the way Numahr, since you seem to be an expert on everything east of Constantinople, should the Levantine/Canaanite/Phoenician religions have blood sacrifice? Some sources tell they did perform human sacrifices, but other sources discredit this as post-Punic wars Roman propaganda, so I'm a bit confused.
 

Numahr

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I would say no.

The books I read on this topic (like Richard Miles' Carthage must be destroyed, but also based on Heri Dridi and Serge Lancel's takes on this issue) tend to say that:
- the archeological signs that the Carthaginians may have sacrificed infants do exist, but are not easy to interpret definitely;
- if they did so, it must have been an innovation from the original phoenician religious practices (and no LI religion can trace back its origin straight from the "Carthaginian" branch of the phoenician religion);
- if they did so, it looks like it was a rather exceptional, ad hoc sacrifice of nobles' infant (not a systematic one like the Aztecs anyway);
- there is no sign of a sacrifice of an individual older than 3 y.o., and the sacrifice seems like it would not make sense if the infant did not come from a respected noble family (so Baal would probably choke at an unholy enemy).
- note also that the infants' skeletons discovered may have been already dead when a ceremony took place which resulted in them being "disposed" at the feet of Baal's statue (in which case the alleged infants' sacrifice was in fact just a peculiar burial practice);
- also the sacrifice had to be performed at the tophet, not in a gloomy unholy fortress (minor point compared to the others).

In light of these elements, if anything, an event/decision would occur at the birth, to propose sacrificing the new-born for a huge piety boost. There are hints at noble women buying a poor mother's infant to replace and save their own child. That could be scripted too, with a chance of a major piety malus if discovered... But again it would be a bit stretched to assume that the Levent's Phoenicians would have adopted the Carthaginian way, if it ever existed.
 

Ezumiyr

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I would say no.

The books I read on this topic (like Richard Miles' Carthage must be destroyed, but also based on Heri Dridi and Serge Lancel's takes on this issue) tend to say that:
- the archeological signs that the Carthaginians may have sacrificed infants do exist, but are not easy to interpret definitely;
- if they did so, it must have been an innovation from the original phoenician religious practices (and no LI religion can trace back its origin straight from the "Carthaginian" branch of the phoenician religion);
- if they did so, it looks like it was a rather exceptional, ad hoc sacrifice of nobles' infant (not a systematic one like the Aztecs anyway);
- there is no sign of a sacrifice of an individual older than 3 y.o., and the sacrifice seems like it would not make sense if the infant did not come from a respected noble family (so Baal would probably choke at an unholy enemy).
- note also that the infants' skeletons discovered may have been already dead when a ceremony took place which resulted in them being "disposed" at the feet of Baal's statue (in which case the alleged infants' sacrifice was in fact just a peculiar burial practice);
- also the sacrifice had to be performed at the tophet, not in a gloomy unholy fortress (minor point compared to the others).

In light of these elements, if anything, an event/decision would occur at the birth, to propose sacrificing the new-born for a huge piety boost. There are hints at noble women buying a poor mother's infant to replace and save their own child. That could be scripted too, with a chance of a major piety malus if discovered... But again it would be a bit stretched to assume that the Levent's Phoenicians would have adopted the Carthaginian way, if it ever existed.


If the Carthaginian-inspired religions are going to have blood sacrifices, the celtic ones should have too. Because such sacrifices are archeologically proven, in the Gauls for exemple, even if the exact circumstances of these sacrifices are unclear (for example, we do not know if it was a proper sacrifice for the gods only or if it was a kind of judicial execution under the patronage of the gods).
 

blackhelm

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From what I've learned of ancient cult and worship (From a series of classes I took on "Religions that were around before Joshua of Nazareth the Anointed One did his thing"*) - infant sacrifice seems to be an extension of "First-fruits" sacrifice. In other words the first of whatever you've just got (whether it be a deer in the woods, some fish from a river, or the grain that you harvested from the field first - it is normally tied up in food and drink) needs to be given up to the gods/god in recognition of their ultimate dominion and power over your world. A statement of "Here you go, I am recognizing your ability to take and give, in the hopes that in return for my gratitude and obedience you'll give me loads and loads more." So first-born sacrifice is an outgrowth of that idea. Sort of "Here's my first kid, now give me a bunch more, kthnxbai."

Note that in times of extreme duress many groups used limited human sacrifice, including the Romans while Hannibal was tromping through Italia. It also seems that the story of Abraham is recounting a transition away from the idea of human sacrifice and first-born sacrifice because the Jewish god YHWH views it as an abomination - an early religious innovation in the Semitic religions. The Greeks seem to have held a similar view towards their gods as the Jews did towards YHWH, but in so feeling they were something of an exception really. Its more that human sacrifice is a really extreme religious statement, even for those populations used to large amounts of violence and death.

Also important to note is that child sacrifice especially seems to be leveled as a propaganda charge in the Roman influenced world - in our own times it is still (quite stupidly) leveled against the Jews, but the early followers of Christos (The Smeared One)* were also regularly accused of killing children and baking them into the Eucharist bread and whatnot. Fun story - supposedly the way the early Christians "got you" was by inviting you to come knead the bread to be baked for the Eucharistic meal, except that they'd hide a baby in the bread, and by kneading it you'd kill the baby, and then the Christians would threaten to expose you to the authorities unless you went along and joined their creepy cult! Hahahaha, people have been stupid and paranoid and gossipy for literally millenia! So, baby killing is kind of the go to horror story about "those evil foreigners and/or weird cultists", a remarkably hypocritical view considering how many unwanted children were left to die of exposure to the elements (especially daughters).

So in all likelihood, no, most of the religions in LI probably wouldn't have much human sacrifice - the Christian influenced faiths especially would have to contend with the fact that Jesus* is regularly referenced as the last, most obvious human sacrifice for the world, so more dead people probably aren't going to do much compared to that. And there's little reason to believe that the Phoenicians were particularly more enthusiastic about this than others. Difficulties also arise with regards to the very idea of "sacrifice". It now has the connotation in English of "giving up/dying", but it originally mean more of "make sacred/give to the gods" (Literally from the Latin "Sacer" -meaning sacred or set apart- and "Ficio/Facere" -meaning to make or to do- hence [sacri]-[fice]). This could mean being given up as a priest to the gods (the story of Eli from the Torah), or being dedicated as a holy object/thing (like holy animals), or offering up and then killing, normally for food (in keeping with the Greek and Roman ideas). Rather conveniently YHWH, the Greek gods, and the Roman gods all liked to get offered animal parts that humans tend to not eat, like hair or blood, allowing the people to "offer" an animal, and then eat it. This is what influenced the idea about sacrifice meaning dying, along with the very powerful example the Christians rely on.

*In English he is normally referred to as Jesus Christ, but in the Aramaic/Hebrew he'd be Yeshua ben Yosep Moshiach (or there about) which was translated into Koine Greek as Iesous Christos (The early christian tracts followed the lead of the Septuagint). Except that in Koine Greek "Christos" has the connotation more of "smeared" rather than "annointed". In addition, Iesous led to Iesus and then Jesus, except his name is more correctly Joshua, not Jesus. So by and large his name should be Joshua son of Joseph the Messiah, not Jesus Christ. I like confusing people by making fun of the silly mutations gained from centuries of transliterating across languages. It's almost like the Lux Invicta crowd was made for people like me!

Edits: I also feel compelled to note that evidence of Celtic human sacrifice is severely lacking, with essentially no supporting evidence of the kinds of sacrifices the Romans claimed to know of. Up until Iulius Caesar's suppression of the Gauls in definitive manner during the last century BC, the Romans had a very fraught relationship with the Gauls (heck, all of the Celtic peoples really), especially considering the Gaulic invasions and sacks of the Italian peninsula that occurred in regular manner during the Hellenistic era. Indeed, one of the reasons Hannibal failed to gain the support of southern Italy is because he brought Gauls with his army, and the Italic peoples had a moment of choice - between the overbearing Romans, who never raided them, just bossed them around, or this foreign "savior" bringing the damned Gauls back. They ended up choosing Rome. So it's no wonder the Roman world spread rumors of the horribleness of the Gauls in particular - they definitely didn't like them.

And as for the the case of the Mexica (NOT THE AZTECS - The Mexica came from Aztlan in MYTH, and calling them "Aztecs" is like calling the Romans "Trojans" cause the Aeneid said they came from Troy! They are Mexica, hence the city and later the country) The human sacrifice regimen was a relatively young innovation tied up in a major restructuring of society in Tenochtitlan under Moctezuma I. It's a particularly (horrible) unique change, and probably was initiated as a means of subjugation of neighboring populations. Certainly not all of the Mexica were as enthusiastic about human sacrifice as the political structure in Tenochtitlan was. Sorry, I'm a big Meso-american enthusiast, and that always bugs me!

tl;dr: Human sacrifice? Not really what most people think it is, so no, probably not useful to include in most cases.
 
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Ezumiyr

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Edits: I also feel compelled to note that evidence of Celtic human sacrifice is severely lacking, with essentially no supporting evidence of the kinds of sacrifices the Romans claimed to know of. Up until Iulius Caesar's suppression of the Gauls in definitive manner during the last century BC, the Romans had a very fraught relationship with the Gauls (heck, all of the Celtic peoples really), especially considering the Gaulic invasions and sacks of the Italian peninsula that occurred in regular manner during the Hellenistic era. Indeed, one of the reasons Hannibal failed to gain the support of southern Italy is because he brought Gauls with his army, and the Italic peoples had a moment of choice - between the overbearing Romans, who never raided them, just bossed them around, or this foreign "savior" bringing the damned Gauls back. They ended up choosing Rome. So it's no wonder the Roman world spread rumors of the horribleness of the Gauls in particular - they definitely didn't like them.

Well, what the latin and greek writers told about the gallic sacrifices is well known, and every body with a bit of critical thinking knows that it has great chances to be propaganda. Still, there are these strange fossa with decapitated young men and bovines. There are other unexplained burials and there is a rite (which is also described by Caesar, by the way) that consists in taking the skull of the enemy to offer it to the gods (which is a kind of human sacrifice, I think), which is attested in Ribemont sur ancre, for example (where even entire corpses have been moved next to a temple).

Anyway, these sacrifices are "more established" and more probable than Carthaginian ones. I prefer to rely on archaeology for problems of that kind. What you say about the imaginary Jewish human sacrifices proves that we can't believe the ancient authors, not that there weren't human sacrifices in the Antiquity. One thing is certain, though: none of these sacrifices was regular. They are always exeptional, even if they're not necessarily rare (we just don't know about that). As a feature for the celtic religions (and also perhaps some Germanic ones), the ruler could have the choice to put all his vainquished enemies to death for the glory of his god. Or it could be a new (or modified just to give more piety) casus belli. Or an in-war modifier that gives more piety for each victory for zealous characters.
 

DarkReborn

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I would say no.

The books I read on this topic (like Richard Miles' Carthage must be destroyed, but also based on Heri Dridi and Serge Lancel's takes on this issue) tend to say that:
- the archeological signs that the Carthaginians may have sacrificed infants do exist, but are not easy to interpret definitely;
- if they did so, it must have been an innovation from the original phoenician religious practices (and no LI religion can trace back its origin straight from the "Carthaginian" branch of the phoenician religion);
- if they did so, it looks like it was a rather exceptional, ad hoc sacrifice of nobles' infant (not a systematic one like the Aztecs anyway);
- there is no sign of a sacrifice of an individual older than 3 y.o., and the sacrifice seems like it would not make sense if the infant did not come from a respected noble family (so Baal would probably choke at an unholy enemy).
- note also that the infants' skeletons discovered may have been already dead when a ceremony took place which resulted in them being "disposed" at the feet of Baal's statue (in which case the alleged infants' sacrifice was in fact just a peculiar burial practice);
- also the sacrifice had to be performed at the tophet, not in a gloomy unholy fortress (minor point compared to the others).

In light of these elements, if anything, an event/decision would occur at the birth, to propose sacrificing the new-born for a huge piety boost. There are hints at noble women buying a poor mother's infant to replace and save their own child. That could be scripted too, with a chance of a major piety malus if discovered... But again it would be a bit stretched to assume that the Levent's Phoenicians would have adopted the Carthaginian way, if it ever existed.

I figured as much. Since I couldn't find books on the subject of the original Phoenician traditions on the library, I picked up some Carthage ones effectively. The kind of event to sacrifice a newborn would be feasible and easy to code.... if we can relate the Levantine traditions to the Phoenician levantine ones, anyway, we already have 2 Carthaginian colonies in East/West Africa and both are Beelshameni to represent Carthaginian cult of Baal Hammon.

tl;dr: Human sacrifice? Not really what most people think it is, so no, probably not useful to include in most cases.

(Don't worry, I've read the full thing)

I know some cases of human sacrifice have been grossly exaggerated, but still I want it to be a feature, maybe an exceptional action in times of crisis indeed. For example when on negative piety or prestige, and probably only towards captured enemies of other religions, or newborns in the case of the Phoenicians if I can find a trustworthy source.

About the Celts... I figured it was some kind of Roman propaganda, since it's no mystery that the Romans hated the Gauls. But again, if you can point me to a source that isn't Roman propaganda about Celtic human sacrifice, they're probably getting it now, just FYI, the list of groups that are getting it (excluding syncretic religions that prohibit human sacrifice such as Hibernicist):

- Norse-German
- Celts
- Mesoamerican
- Ancient Egyptians (on the dead of important rulers, voluntary courtiers/slaves may be buried with him)
- Canaanite (newborns, depending if I find enough sources stating it was indeed a practise among the Phoenicians and not propaganda)
- Graeco-Roman (in times of crisis probably)
- Solar (same as graeco roman)
- Slavic
- West African (maybe, if I can find trustworthy sources)
 

blackhelm

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I really think any use of human sacrifice in LI should be entirely based on examples in the LI timeline as the basis for inclusion - Zalmoxians leap onto the spears, Emperor-sacrifice by the Sarmato-Brythonic Christo-Zalmoxians, etc. There are a wide variety of prisoner sacrifice, abdication/suicide/into-the-desert, death of courtiers/companions upon ruler death, and so forth in the LI histories written by Shaytana to allow for this without relying on pseudo-historical speculation on what "real Druids" or "real Norse" would have done. There is such limited information on the real world occurrence of such events that I can't state strongly enough how opposed I am to their inclusion in LI (Not, of course, that I have any real influence! I just figured I'd put my opinion out there, and I'll just mod out what I don't want for myself, which is what I do anyways!)


@ Ezumiyr
There is essentially no evidence of anything that Caesar claimed about the Gauls with regards to human sacrifice - to begin with, the limited evidence we have of human remains can easily be tied to any number of causes, including, but not limited to, execution of criminals, murder of politically inconvenient people, physical mutilation after death for the humiliation of the deceased, physical mutilation for glorification/memorialization of the deceased, etc.


The fact that there are bone remains in various states of dismemberment or mutilation, or that they are present near a holy or sacred site, emphatically does not mean that we can at all conclude that the remains were as a result of religious sacrifice. Are the Capuchin monks at Santa Maria della Concezione dei Cappuccini engaged in human sacrifice? They've got thousands of dismembered and reorganized bones covering an entire crypt right beneath a church! Clearly, this is evidence of human sacrifice..... except that it's not. Not to mention the fact none of the Aedui or Arverni, nor any of the politically prominent individuals of Caesar's time (such as, say, Vercingetorix), are at all tied to human sacrifice, even during the most extreme moments of the double circumvallation of Alesia. If there were any evidence of such actions, it would have been plastered left, right, and center. What's more, there is no evidence from later Roman administration of Celtic regions that there was ever any continuing practice of such sacrifices/worship, something that the Romans paid a lot of attention to and would most certainly have sought to root out. Certainly they opposed Isis worship, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Mithraism, Dionysian/Bacchanalia worship, etc. There is simply no reason to believe that the Druidic regions had any real organized idea of human sacrifice.


Contrastingly, Phoenician (and later Carthaginian) first-born sacrifice, while likely exaggerated, certainly follows a known pattern of "first-fruits" sacrifice, and has a far greater deal of archaeological evidence than Druidic sacrifice. There are explicit pronouncements against such kinds of sacrifice and worship in the Torah from a period dating to before the founding of Carthage, and it likely had existed to some extent.


That being said, your idea of prisoner sacrifice and altered CBs are both not only good, but I think great. There is significant evidence of murder of captured leaders in war, and although in many cases this is explicitly NOT religious in nature, it could probably get a pass in the LI-verse, especially because Shaytana explicitly refers to it this way.


@ DarkReborn
-I would strongly suggest starting with prisoner sacrifice, which is pretty commonly mentioned by Shaytana's histories.

-I would pretty strongly oppose including the Slavic, West African, Celtic faiths in much more than that (there's evidence that the Slavs were WAY nicer to prisoners than most, in fact).

-I would say only very few religious would have infant sacrifice, and those would be Phoenician influenced specifically, not necessarily Canaanite in general.

-Courtiers and Wives/Concubines dying with the ruler should probably be a rather common thing - Norse, Egyptian, Solar, Tengrii, etc all have suggestions/evidence of such practices.

-Major Invasions or certain CBs probably could allow Graeco-roman sacrifice of courtiers for a piety hit and a boost to troop moral or something similar (It was an extreme, and not well regarded, practice, hence the piety hit, but might have been considered necessary and worthwhile)

-"Riding into the Desert" or self-sacrifice in various forms is well attested to in Shaytana's histories for the more established, Imperial level faiths, like Sol Invictus.

-The Zalmoxians have an explicit sacrifice of a soldier as a religious duty and an honor for the individual chosen, so that could definitely be included in a "Passover", "Lent", or "Hajj" like event chain.

-The Norse otherwise should possibly have blot events, but in all likelihood they would involve horse sacrifice, not human. But I haven't read through looking at Shaytana's implications for the Norse.


Basically, I think that sacrifice of prisoners is the best bet, followed by suicide style abdications and courtier/concubine/wife death upon succession. Otherwise, it's really really dubious. And I think our primary source shouldn't be what people "know" about actual history, but instead what is included in Shaytana's stories, so any time Shaytana's stuff conflicts with historical evidence or debates, Shaytana's should win, because alternate history. Which means if there is some clear evidence in the stories about the Slavs stabbing people for their gods, then more power to you! My two cents worth :)


Edits: Formatting to reduce the "wall of text" effect
 
Last edited:

atdoan

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Hey Lux Invicta guys. I've heard tell that you've had problems with the "Demand religious conversion" diplomatic option recently-- vassals will not change their religion for some reason, even if they accept your diplomatic request. Well, it just so happens that I'm having the same problem in my mod. I was wondering if you had managed to figure it out? I'm totally stumped and need some help!
 

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@DR
just to confirm for documentation, you essentially un-integrated the Climate Mod right?
 

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Don't worry, your opinion - and reasonable criticism - matters (to me at least), as do the opinions of most other players of the mod.
I'm no history major, just a database admin with and odd hobby and way too much free time, so input from knowledgeable people is more than welcome.

I had indeed planned it just for prisoners (just like the Aztecs - the Mexica - do in vanilla, you can sacrifice prisoners either on a successful siege or "save them for later") for almost all listed religions except the select ones that have other kinds of sacrifice. And probably more than that, prisoner sacrifices to Angra Mainyu and Sowilo are mentioned in the LI timeline, a snippet of the timeline:
Artabanus V decides to embrace the worship of Angra Mainyu on the condition of the fall of the city. He makes a public promise to Angra Mainyu before his army, that he will sacrifice all of the magi priests to him if he manages to conquer the city. The city falls, after a section of the wall miraculously collapses. Artabanus V has all of the magi within the city sacrificed to Angra Mainyu. The Moabadan-moabad is burned alive, Artabanus V proclaiming: "Let us see if fire will cleanse you of sin!".

From this we can, for example, extrapolate that the Ahrimanic religions practise this kind of sacrifice.

"Riding into the desert" abdication is planned but I keep forgetting about it (between the new map, updating to different patches and all I keep forgetting most things I'm planning to do). I'll see what I can do with concubine/spouse sacrifice.

Hey Lux Invicta guys. I've heard tell that you've had problems with the "Demand religious conversion" diplomatic option recently-- vassals will not change their religion for some reason, even if they accept your diplomatic request. Well, it just so happens that I'm having the same problem in my mod. I was wondering if you had managed to figure it out? I'm totally stumped and need some help!

You need to add this to "on_actions":

Code:
# When a character accepts religious conversion (the diplomatic action)
# FROMFROM is the demander. FROM is the vassal. ROOT is the character. Fires for the vassal and each of his courtiers and vassals.
on_vassal_accepts_religious_conversion = {
	events = {
		39700 # Hidden event actually changing the religion
	}
}

and then find the relevant event in religious_events and copy it to your mod's version.

@Riknap:
Yes, I did. Performance issues as FG noticed.
 

riknap

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@Riknap:
Yes, I did. Performance issues as FG noticed.
fair enough. I was considering disabling it myself, but you beat me to it anyway :laugh:

as for other potential sources of lag, most of them usually come from maintenance events and triggered modifiers. Friends and Foes related ones for example along with SELIN/LIBERT3 modifiers - granted, I won't recommend scrapping those just yet, since they're pretty much a core of the mod :laugh:
(well, IIRC, the FF maintenance event that removes traits based on present humours was among the events I disabled when I was removing the first-month-end freeze, plus a genetic-related one I couldn't identify who wrote it or what it was for. )
 

atdoan

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You need to add this to "on_actions":

Code:
# When a character accepts religious conversion (the diplomatic action)
# FROMFROM is the demander. FROM is the vassal. ROOT is the character. Fires for the vassal and each of his courtiers and vassals.
on_vassal_accepts_religious_conversion = {
	events = {
		39700 # Hidden event actually changing the religion
	}
}

and then find the relevant event in religious_events and copy it to your mod's version.

Ohhh thank you! Thank you! Thank you so much!!! Hallelujah!
 

Ivir Baggins

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Regarding prisoner sacrifice, if it were to be an option, it should certainly be one for the "evil" religions of the LI-verse, ie. Ahrimanic, Angra Mainyu, Tengri-Ahrimanic, and Ragnarokic - and maybe the martial religions as well.
 

Numahr

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A call for feedback

I am now designing the composition of holy orders by civilization.

In order to keep it somehow balanced, I created a little calculation to evaluate the approximate military value of a given combination of units. It is based on the following values of units:
LI = 1
Archers = 1.5
LC = 4
HA = 3 (takes into account the low economic "cost" of such warriors for those civilizaitons who have access to them)
Pikemen = 4
HI = 4
HC = 8

Being said that perfect balance is not what we aim for anyway, would you agree with these values?

As a result, for example, a "unit" of holy orders gives the following compositions of approximate equal values:
- Christian: 120 HC, 300 HI, 200 LC (total = 620)
- Celitc: 300 HI, 100 HA, 200 LC, 400 LI, 200 Archers (total = 1,200)
 

riknap

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A call for feedback

I am now designing the composition of holy orders by civilization.

In order to keep it somehow balanced, I created a little calculation to evaluate the approximate military value of a given combination of units. It is based on the following values of units:
LI = 1
Archers = 1.5
LC = 4
HA = 3 (takes into account the low economic "cost" of such warriors for those civilizaitons who have access to them)
Pikemen = 4
HI = 4
HC = 8

Being said that perfect balance is not what we aim for anyway, would you agree with these values?

As a result, for example, a "unit" of holy orders gives the following compositions of approximate equal values:
- Christian: 120 HC, 300 HI, 200 LC (total = 620)
- Celitc: 300 HI, 100 HA, 200 LC, 400 LI, 200 Archers (total = 1,200)

if you don't mind, may I suggest values of my own?
these were the values for the cost-ratios I've been using for LIBERT3 balancing for some time now:
LI 1
HI 3
PI 3
LC 4
KN 6
AR 1
HA 4

by contrast for reference, vanilla uses:
li 1
hi 2
pi 2
lc 2
kn 4
ar 1
ha 2


I'll explain in detail.
In the values I've chosen, I specifically made them in conjunction with parameter balance I've made before, specifically (where offence/defence) :

Light Infantry - still the base all-around unit
morale: 3
skirmish: 3/3
melee: 3/3
pursue: 3/3

Archers - boosted skirmish offensive and morale relative to LI, but weak anywhere else
morale: 2
skirmish: 8/2
melee: 1/2
pursue: 2/3

Heavy Infantry - slightly reduced pursue defence to LI/AR levels while increasing maintenance
morale: 5
skirmish: 0.5/5
melee: 6/4
pursue: 2/3

Pikemen - rebalanced to be more like defensive heavy infantry in exchange for poor pursue-phase combat
morale: 5
skirmish: 0.25/5
melee: 6/7
pursue: 0.25/2

Light Cavalry - buffed to be stronger in the skirmish and pursue phase while weaker in melee phase
morale: 4
skirmish: 6/5
melee: 2/3
pursue: 12/8

Horse Archers - increased morale and skirmish attack in exchange for higher base maintenance. relative to LI, it's a more combat-oriented version
morale: 7
skirmish: 7/4
melee: 3/4
pursue: 7/7

Heavy Cavalry/Knights - slightly reduced defence and morale to keep them in line with other units
morale: 9
skirmish: 1/7
melee: 10/7
pursue: 8/5



thus, for maintenance costs (which also determines the retinue cap usage), I've made them symmetrical based on the unit balancing I've attempted:
Light Infantry = Archers = 1
Heavy Infantry = Pikemen = 3
Light Cavalry = Heavy Archers = 4
Knights = 6


that said, I of course am interested in tweaking that balance further to be optimal for combat (since I'm trying to make each and every unit type worth its weight/place in combat - read: we don't want one realm to be overpowering another with its vastly superior OP units :laugh: ). So I'm also interested in your thoughts on the balance I've made a long time ago.
 

futuregary

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Aug 22, 2011
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I would trust Riknap, when it comes to the numbers of this game he knows what he's doing quite well :3

I also think LC should be less than or equal to HA, since in many situations (especially rural areas) light cavalrymen's gear consists of leather armor, a light lance (more of a spear) for running down routers, and a sabre in case you actually need to fight. Horse archers require special stirrups to free hands, arrows and a bow, probably a similar sabre, and maybe a buckler to protect your wrist. All in all, more expensive. However, what a payoff; nothing could outmatch the horse archer on the battlefield until some cheap bastard had to invent cowardpowder and "revolutionize warfare".

Geez, this map is... amazing. I've just spent the past two days trying to readjust the realms we already have defined :laugh: That part's about done, and I am frankly excited to see what comes next :D Still, though, probably a good idea to keep the hype down for now... this may be quite a project indeed.