[MOD] Lux Invicta

[Portal]

Is there a 867 starting date in the mod?

There's no point in including one.

 

[Worldcrusher]

There's no point in including one.

This is unnecessarily curt - it's an extra two hundred years of gameplay. That's a point. Probably would be fun. That's a point. More options for one's Lux Invicta gaming experience. That's a point. At least one person wants it. That's a point.

If the gains of adding an 867 bookmark are not worth the headaches for the developers, I understand and accept that. But flat dismissals < concise explanations to reasonable questions.

 

[DarkReborn]

This is unnecessarily curt - it's an extra two hundred years of gameplay. That's a point. Probably would be fun. That's a point. More options for one's Lux Invicta gaming experience. That's a point. At least one person wants it. That's a point.

If the gains of adding an 867 bookmark are not worth the headaches for the developers, I understand and accept that. But flat dismissals < concise explanations to reasonable questions.

LI's timeline is intentionally "rigged" so that the 1066 start is actually the interesting one, so a 876 start would not make sense from a lore point of view. Neither would do from a gameplay one, since the game is set to run up to year 9999, so you can play as long as your RAM can handle the game (or as long as you want).

 

[Ezumiyr]

View attachment 95229
Soooo.... This happend.

Still nothing we can do about that? Can we manually cancel the trigger? (cause my peacefull Buddhist game is ruined by this bug, even after reloads... Bad karma I suppose...)

 

[riknap]

This is unnecessarily curt - it's an extra two hundred years of gameplay. That's a point. Probably would be fun. That's a point. More options for one's Lux Invicta gaming experience. That's a point. At least one person wants it. That's a point.

If the gains of adding an 867 bookmark are not worth the headaches for the developers, I understand and accept that. But flat dismissals < concise explanations to reasonable questions.

basically, the reason there's no point in one is because LI is an alt-verse that is playable until your computer crashes at the mere loading of the save game (time limit of year 9999+ as DR pointed out). Plus, as noted - the timeline was specifically tweaked such that everything interesting starts at 1066 - in short, everything that happened before "1066" is pretty much like backstory to the setting of LI - we might as well use year 0 for the heck of it (except the few character histories that are existing would be messed up if that happened, not to mention there's no in-universe reason to change the calender anyway)


In other words, asking for an 867 bookmark in LI is pretty much like asking for a Valyrian-empire and/or Great Winter bookmark in AGOT or an bookmark set in the Nord invasion/migration of Tamriel in EK - it's just not sensible for the setting nor necessary for gameplay

 

[Numahr]

Coded? I did this a long time ago :laugh: The modifiers for holy orders are located in static_modifiers.txt, but I believe it's somewhat outdated. I'm not too busy to go through that and touch it up a bit

As for the Status effect changes, I agree. You didn't mention it, so I'm guessing the Mainstream having a +2 is fine. Before I go through and update it, though, you may want to draft out your suggestions for the Civilization effects.

Cool! Yes I see your code

Then let's proceed the usual way, I'll put the rules we are discussing now in the Matrix, in a new Holy Orders section, so that we can easily check/update the code in static_modifiers. Basically I need to calculate 3 values:

1. levy_size, as discussed

2. Troop count (I will keep your logic of an ax + b type linear progression, but we can rely on excel to avoid threshold factor between 14 and 15 settlements. Maybe something like 500+10 for each province, that makes it close to your figures).

Important note: religions created by reform should get a boost compared to the initial number of provinces, as we can assume that, by the time of their creation, they will indeed control many more provinces. So I will probably grant them a quite high number, e.g. assuming like 25 provinces or so (that would be 750 if we follow the formula above).

3. Troop distribution, a) as a % based on SELIN characteristics and b) as an absolute value based on 1., 2. and 3.a)

And yes, the bonus for Mainstream makes sense, let's have it at +2.

 

[Ezumiyr]

Still nothing we can do about that? Can we manually cancel the trigger? (cause my peacefull Buddhist game is ruined by this bug, even after reloads... Bad karma I suppose...)

Correction: I have "maintenance_event line 272, Column 2" each time my ruler dies, in the early days of the reign of his successor .

 

[SirKulinski]

Correction: I have "maintenance_event line 272, Column 2" each time my ruler dies, in the early days of the reign of his successor .

I saw Dark(1 or 2) do something with that, let me find it for you.

edit: DarkReborn beat me to it o:

 

[DarkReborn]

Correction: I have "maintenance_event line 272, Column 2" each time my ruler dies, in the early days of the reign of his successor .

Go to Lux Invicta/common/on_actions and open 00_on_actions.txt, search for the on_death section. Replace it all with this:

on_death = {
	events = {
#		8250
		650
		675
		24500
		24502
		70041
		930000008
		930000010
		38000 # bankrupcy events
		finnish.1
		ao_cleanup.0
		88291
	}
	random_events = {
		10 = 24505
		10 = 24510
		100 = 0
	}
}

 

[Ezumiyr]

Go to Lux Invicta/common/on_actions and open 00_on_actions.txt, search for the on_death section. Replace it all with this:

on_death = {
	events = {
#		8250
		650
		675
		24500
		24502
		70041
		930000008
		930000010
		38000 # bankrupcy events
		finnish.1
		ao_cleanup.0
		88291
	}
	random_events = {
		10 = 24505
		10 = 24510
		100 = 0
	}
}

Thank you very much, it works perfectly! Amitabha.

 

[Moonstruck]

I realize that this suggestion might not be entirely preferable, with the state of technology being so as it is, at the moment, but would it be possible (I have searched the thread as much as practically feasible, but didn't find anything on the topic) to have the vassal opinion penalties for Price of Power et al. (that is, the realm size penalties) be reducible by some branch(es?) of technology? I realize that a way to discourage reckless expansion is necessary, lest Lux Invicta too becomes a conquest-fest, but at the same time, it feels rather frustrating to have some arbitrary modifier preventing you from doing anything at all, especially when you're incapable of doing anything about it too.

As things are, the only thing preventing rebellion in my provinces is further wars of conquest, and that has really been the way things have been for the last century or so. It's very reminiscent of both the Alexandrian and Roman empires, which is cool, but as a player, it's somewhat awkward to have everybody arbitrarily hate you, just because you're their overlord. The other penalties are fine, but a -70 realm-wide opinion penalty is just murderous.

 

[riknap]

I realize that this suggestion might not be entirely preferable, with the state of technology being so as it is, at the moment, but would it be possible (I have searched the thread as much as practically feasible, but didn't find anything on the topic) to have the vassal opinion penalties for Price of Power et al. (that is, the realm size penalties) be reducible by some branch(es?) of technology? I realize that a way to discourage reckless expansion is necessary, lest Lux Invicta too becomes a conquest-fest, but at the same time, it feels rather frustrating to have some arbitrary modifier preventing you from doing anything at all, especially when you're incapable of doing anything about it too.

As things are, the only thing preventing rebellion in my provinces is further wars of conquest, and that has really been the way things have been for the last century or so. It's very reminiscent of both the Alexandrian and Roman empires, which is cool, but as a player, it's somewhat awkward to have everybody arbitrarily hate you, just because you're their overlord. The other penalties are fine, but a -70 realm-wide opinion penalty is just murderous.

while it's not possible to directly tie technology and realm duress opinion, it IS possible to increase the opinion bonus from technology.
that said, I am considering reducing that opinion penalty, since I've instead always wanted to find other methods that would help destabilize overly large realms instead of simply opinion (that said, I won't exactly remove it as is, but I do plan to readjust the slope around in conjunction to what I could do)

 

[futuregary]

This is unnecessarily curt - it's an extra two hundred years of gameplay. That's a point. Probably would be fun. That's a point. More options for one's Lux Invicta gaming experience. That's a point. At least one person wants it. That's a point.

If the gains of adding an 867 bookmark are not worth the headaches for the developers, I understand and accept that. But flat dismissals < concise explanations to reasonable questions.

The history is pre-written, and I know for certain I'm not going to alter the history for every year between 867 and 1066, but using the information we have, I don't think it'd be hard to set up the world from the year 867. Or is it 876...? I thought it was, anyway. It's just... very low on the priority list :laugh: But if we're going to do that, we should do other important years in Lux history as well. Only downside: we can only do years in the Common Era :closedeyes:

Contrary to most of the councillors, I think it would be cool to have earlier start dates. Kind of allow the player to see the history of Lux Invicta unfold before them. It would definitely help in understanding the massive amount of historical information in a new form. Keep in mind, though, I'm talking about in addition to the one in 1066. That was specifically intended and won't be changed.

Cool! Yes I see your code

Then let's proceed the usual way, I'll put the rules we are discussing now in the Matrix, in a new Holy Orders section, so that we can easily check/update the code in static_modifiers. Basically I need to calculate 3 values:

1. levy_size, as discussed

2. Troop count (I will keep your logic of an ax + b type linear progression, but we can rely on excel to avoid threshold factor between 14 and 15 settlements. Maybe something like 500+10 for each province, that makes it close to your figures).

Important note: religions created by reform should get a boost compared to the initial number of provinces, as we can assume that, by the time of their creation, they will indeed control many more provinces. So I will probably grant them a quite high number, e.g. assuming like 25 provinces or so (that would be 750 if we follow the formula above).

3. Troop distribution, a) as a % based on SELIN characteristics and b) as an absolute value based on 1., 2., and 3.

And yes, the bonus for Mainstream makes sense, let's have it at +2.

Agreed on reforming religions; otherwise, how could we base them off any numbers, since they have no provinces at start-up :laugh:

---

I don't know if you've taken a look at the stuff in my locker, but I have some things to mention based on observations I've made and ideas I've had. Here are some of the important ones.

One of the biggest changes we made to religious structure a while ago was remove or edit non-heresy religions that had no provinces, and thus could hardly be considered existent. However, we disregarded the non-heresies that had one or two provinces, and few or no leaders. These are static religions, and have little to no chance of survival since they lack the congregational mass (pardon the pun) to expand the faith. I took the time to make note of each of the religions that seem to fit this description. They are as follows:

• Tarhuntite (1 province, no ruler. Suggestion: make neighboring Valentinian province Tarhuntite and give both provinces Tarhuntite counts)
• Marabouti (2 provinces, no rulers. Suggestion: make the Hammadids and their provinces Marabouti. Make Anti-Atlas Gurzili and Figuig Ghazi Islamic.)
• Porphyryan (2 provinces, 1 ruler. Suggestion: make Acre independent from Jerusalem, and make the count be Porphyryan.)
• Platonic Christian (1 province, no ruler. Suggestion: make the count in Hellas Platonic Christian, and make Galilee Platonic Christian.)
• Platonic Islamic (2 provinces, 1 ruler. Suggestion: make the count in Jaffa Platonic Islamic.)
• Yazdâni (1 province, 1 ruler. Suggestion: make Sinjar Yazdâni.)
• Yazidi (1* province, 1 ruler. Suggestion: make Shemakha Yazidi.)

*if changes to Yazdâni are made, otherwise 2

Most of the solutions involve changing province religions or adding counts under a ruler of a different religion. This makes provinces that begin under control of another religion harder to convert, since the count is trying to make sure they stay that religion. There are some other religions that aren't in danger of going extinct as much as the static religions are, but could still use a count or two as a boost. I also documented these:

• Pereyaslavl Zalessky (russian/rod)
• Werle (polab/svetovid)
• Rostock (polab/svetovid)
• Wolgast (pommeranian/svetovid)
• Rügen (pommeranian/svetovid)
• Rhegium (greek/plato_pythagorean)
• Demetrias (greek/graeco_roman)
• Abydos (hellenistic/alexandros)
• Kyzikos (greek/montanist)
• Seleukeia (hellenistic/sol_christ)
• Tarsos (hellenistic/sol_christ)
• Adana (hellenistic/alexandros)
• Taron (armenian/yahyanism)
• Cornouaille (breton/celtic_pagan)
• Penthievre (breton/celtic_pagan)
• Léon (breton/celtic_pagan)
• Chud (komi/voipel)
• Valais (german/catholic)
• Geneve (burgundian/catholic)

Note: Some of these are more for cultural withstanding rather than religious.

---

As of 2.0, heresies that largely outnumber their parent become the new parent, with the parent becoming the new heresy. In the case of Mithraic (around 4 provinces) and Mithraic-Christian (well over 20 provinces), Mithraic-Christian becomes the new dominant religion by February 1, 1066 in every game. My recommendation to fix this would be to replace Mithraic-Christian as a heresy with Eosphorist. Mithraic-Christianity has gotten large enough by spread of the Roman army to become a properly-recognized denomination, while Eosphorist could still arguably be a splinter movement with more of a messiah complex for Mithra. The other solution, of course, is to replace some Mithraic-Christian provinces/realms. I would personally be in favor of either (over 20 provinces is very high, especially since Mithraic is so low), but canon must be respected.

Problem: An event replacing Mithraic with Mithraic-Christian as the parent in the parent-heresy relationship occurs due to the vast difference in the number of Mithraic and Mithraic-Christian provinces.

Potential Solutions:

• Replace Mithraic-Christian as the heresy of Mithraic with Eosphorist, making Mithraic-Christian an independent denomination.
• Reduce the difference in provinces by changing provincial(/character?) religions.

---

I think Haruri should be a Shia heresy. It technically should be a Kharijite heresy, based on IRL history, but since Kharijitism is a Shia heresy, it only makes sense for Haruri to be a Shia heresy as well.

Yes, we're back to this again. I think it's funny since it was originally a Kharijite heresy before I ever put my grubby hands on the mod :laugh: One thing is for sure though, an independent Haruri sect with no ties to any other faith is strange. And on that note, that reminds me about the orange localized names I put in the Matrix. Allow me to explain.

Kharijite - The information in the SELIN localisation does not match our current specification of Kharitijism. The history (both in the Matrix and IRL) says that it developed alongside Sunni and Shia Islam, yet in the game it is a Shia heresy. This also relates back to the Haruri issue above.

Slavic Christian - According to this official description, the Slavic Christian religion should start reformed. They are small, true, but it actually says verbatim that "the Slavic clerics created a highly organized clergy of their own, replicating the Catholic system." If it is so comparable to the Catholic system, is it not as developed?

Waldensian - It looks... very bare-bones-y. Something like what we did with the Fraticelli, where it explains the reasoning and origins and the like, would be better. I didn't want to just delete it, but I would say it needs revision.

On the note of the SELIN localisations, I never did get around to writing any for the new religions (I will eventually, but there are other priorities and they aren't the only religions to not have localisations), but I could help with some of these if I come up with something good. Or did you want to do them yourself?

---

As it turns out, migratory Alan tribes aided the Goths in their fights against the Romans in Iberia. Eventually, they settled down in a place known as Goth-Alania, which would etymologically morph into Catalonia. I think it would be interesting if the Alans settled en masse, to the point that the "Catalans" in the game are actually Alans. They would still be Catholic, of course.

I know DarkReborn responded to this, but I never did hear anyone else's opinion. It's going to be covered by the cultural overhaul, so it's best to define who they are now.

---

And that is all for now.

 

[Ivir Baggins]

No love for Illuyankan? They're another 1-prov no-ruler religion.

 

[futuregary]

No love for Illuyankan? They're another 1-prov no-ruler religion.

They're a heresy of Luwian, so they have a chance to spring up at any given time. I think I saw all of Isauria go Illuyankan one time - after they had gained a lot more land.

 

[Bismarck1899]

is the svn version playable with 2.0.1 ?

 

[sleath56]

Is there supposed to be no description for the religions? When I hover over the religion of a character on their character screen, it says some like 'defines_sol' for a Solar Imperial instead of a description of that religion... Basically my only nitpick about the mod.

 

[futuregary]

is the svn version playable with 2.0.1 ?

Yes.

Is there supposed to be no description for the religions? When I hover over the religion of a character on their character screen, it says some like 'defines_sol' for a Solar Imperial instead of a description of that religion... Basically my only nitpick about the mod.

We're working on the localisations. We actually do have a specific structure for them, and each one does take a lot of effort to research and understand the religion before writing. It doesn't help that some of them Shaytana made up and left few notes on. Also, our time is spread out, so it may be a while for some of them.

 

[DarkReborn]

I don't know if you've taken a look at the stuff in my locker, but I have some things to mention based on observations I've made and ideas I've had. Here are some of the important ones.



Most of the solutions involve changing province religions or adding counts under a ruler of a different religion. This makes provinces that begin under control of another religion harder to convert, since the count is trying to make sure they stay that religion. There are some other religions that aren't in danger of going extinct as much as the static religions are, but could still use a count or two as a boost. I also documented these:

• Pereyaslavl Zalessky (russian/rod)
• Werle (polab/svetovid)
• Rostock (polab/svetovid)
• Wolgast (pommeranian/svetovid)
• Rügen (pommeranian/svetovid)
• Rhegium (greek/plato_pythagorean)
• Demetrias (greek/graeco_roman)
• Abydos (hellenistic/alexandros)
• Kyzikos (greek/montanist)
• Seleukeia (hellenistic/sol_christ)
• Tarsos (hellenistic/sol_christ)
• Adana (hellenistic/alexandros)
• Taron (armenian/yahyanism)
• Cornouaille (breton/celtic_pagan)
• Penthievre (breton/celtic_pagan)
• Léon (breton/celtic_pagan)
• Chud (komi/voipel)
• Valais (german/catholic)
• Geneve (burgundian/catholic)

Note: Some of these are more for cultural withstanding rather than religious.

I'm OK with this. The most usual challenge in vanilla is starting as count. Considering LIs starting setup, it's double the challenge, so double the fun. Also I'm all in for Plato-Pythagorean finally getting a count. It's like one of those cheesy children shows where they win fights with "the power of maths" :rofl:

Problem: An event replacing Mithraic with Mithraic-Christian as the parent in the parent-heresy relationship occurs due to the vast difference in the number of Mithraic and Mithraic-Christian provinces.

Potential Solutions:

• Replace Mithraic-Christian as the heresy of Mithraic with Eosphorist, making Mithraic-Christian an independent denomination.
• Reduce the difference in provinces by changing provincial(/character?) religions.

I already augmented the number of provinces a heresy needs to have more than the mainstream to supplant it (15 from 5), but Mithraic Christian still supplants Mithraic (it also used to happen with Solar Christian replacing Sol-Imperial, but this fixed it). Maybe all we need is more Mithraic provinces/counts (in surgical places, of course), I always thought there were far too few in LI for having been such a popular mystery cult in the Roman military IRL.

I know DarkReborn responded to this, but I never did hear anyone else's opinion. It's going to be covered by the cultural overhaul, so it's best to define who they are now.

Again, on this; that theory, even IRL, is wiry at best. I'm not a professional historian in any way, but I've read a lot on the subject of the migration period in Spain. The number of Alans that migrated to the Peninsula were (comparatively to the Visigoths/Sueves) far too few to make a cultural impact on the Visigoth/Suevic population, and eventually dissolved between those two populations or migrated further to Northern Africa with the Vandals. Catalan culture was mostly the product of Goths + Frankish Carolingian occupation. They did settle for a long time in southern Portugal and parts of what is today the provinces of Castilla-La Mancha, Murcia and Extremadura, so If anything a Hispanic Alan kingdom would make sense in those places. In fact, we could replace one of the Andalusian realms in Southern Portugal with an Alan kingdom now that I think of it, only if we can somewhat fit it into the timeline.

 

[blackhelm]

FYI, (And maybe I'm doing something wrong) but demanding somebody convert to your faith isn't working properly - you can send the demand, and the person will accept, but then they won't convert religions, which is a bit of a slap in the face

I've been looking around and cannot for the life of me figure out why the diplomacy action isn't firing correctly, but I have definitely encountered it myself and seen the AI run up against this wall too - continual messages of how the same person accepted the AI's demand to convert practically every month gets a bit silly. I seem to have a vague recollection of the demand conversion option being disabled to prevent homogenization of polities, but I don't know if that's an actual memory or just something that seems plausible for the LI team. Either way, I'd love to know how to edit it myself, because I can't stand the thought of my lovely wife burning in hellfire for her silly faith, when she clearly likes me so much that she's otherwise willing to convert :happy: