[MOD] Lux Invicta

[DarkReborn]

Be sure to take into account the Enatic and Enatic-Cognatic succession when bringing succession/religion into the table, Numahr. We have some religions that were historically more abiding with females being rulers.

About holy orders/martial cults. Remember that some religions that we don't consider "pagan" by any other accounts get cults (Mithraism, Yahweh Sabaoth and Ghazi Islam).

But I'm OK with reformed barbarian civ/martial soul religion Holy Orders being stronger. We can always craft SELIN modifiers for those holy orders.

 

[Numahr]

you guy2 are thiinkiing thiings two 2iimplii2tiically, bee 2ure two add fractal complexiity

well at least my wall of text inspired someone to some form of contemporary art

--- Edit ---

Good points DarkReborn. So what you're saying, if I try to translate it in SELIN terms, is that the warrior cult buildings will be granted to:
- All "LI-Pagan" religions
- Some hand-picked ones as per Shaytana's design

Now I am just reading a history book devoting a fair share of attention to Saxony between Charlemagne and the HRE*. A good model for what a "reformed barbarian" religion is (although they were actually Christian). And kind of fits the concept we are speaking about now of warrior cult becoming a strong holy order.

So we could introduce some sort of SELIN thing on Holy Orders, upon which:
- "LI-pagan" unreformed religions (not graeco-roman ones) and any unreformed religion hand-picked for warrior cult get no religious order
- other unreformed religions (such as classical graeco-roman) get weak ones (or not? not sure about this)
- reformed religions generally get average HO, with room for custom approach
- reformed martial, "LI-pagan" and religions hand-picked for the warrior cult when unreformed get strong HO -> simulates the "reform" of the warrior cults

You will note that with this logic, reformed religions which are hand-picked by Shaytana for the WC get it AND the average HO. Heck, these must be very few ones that amply deserve it thematically, so I would say "so be it" and so much for idealistic balance

* Millenium by Tom Holland, a good read about the CK2 period and a good source of inspiration for the background behind LI

 

[ASmallEthiopianVilage]

will this mod ever be compatable with the EU4 converter?

 

[Darkgamma]

Now that I've read Numahr's post in a bit more detail, I agree with the level of complexity. Fractals are always optimal, shore, but I like his ideas.

will this mod ever be compatable with the EU4 converter?

Well, it's nowhere near our main project, but I think Riknap's (?) slowly, slowly, slowly been working on it

 

[DarkReborn]

Good points DarkReborn. So what you're saying, if I try to translate it in SELIN terms, is that the warrior cult buildings will be granted to:
- All "LI-Pagan" religions
- Some hand-picked ones as per Shaytana's design

Now I am just reading a history book covering Saxony between Charlemagne and the HRE. A good model for what a "reformed barbarian" religion is (although they were actually Christian). And kind of fits the concept we are speaking about now of warrior cult becoming a strong holy order.

So we could introduce some sort of SELIN thing on Holy Orders, upon which:
- "LI-pagan" unreformed religions (not graeco-roman ones) and any unreformed religion hand-picked for warrior cult get no religious order
- other unreformed religions (such as classical graeco-roman) get weak ones (or not? not sure about this)
- reformed religions generally get average HO, with room for custom approach
- reformed martial, "LI-pagan" and religions hand-picked for the warrior cult when unreformed get strong HO -> simulates the "reform" of the warrior cults

You will note that with this logic, reformed religions which are hand-picked by Shaytana for the WC get it AND the average HO. Heck, these must be very few ones that amply deserve it thematically, so I would say "so be it" and so much for idealistic balance

I know it throws balance out of the window, but I just said we should account for those religions.

If I may voice my personal opinion (I was talking from a balance perspective before), I think that unreformed religions in general shouldn't get holy orders; most "folk" traditional religions we know of (or at least, I know of) didn't have dedicated monk/priest warriors, but typically strong leader figures that claimed to be "chosen by the gods" (Temujin himself for example). Anyway, "Holy Orders", or even religiously dedicated warriors are a staple of organized religions with a established hierarchy, from the Templars to the Japanese Sōhei. The Jomsvikings were at best mercenaries (they even offered themselves to Christian lords) and at worst bandits under a fancy name, so they wouldn't qualify as what we could call a "holy order".

Still, as I said before, for balance's sake (unreformed non-martial, as you say) religions should get generally "weak" Holy Orders, In the context of LI, let's say that they're basically warriors desperate to conserve their faiths against so much opposition as there is in LI (a ton of other religions competing for supremacy is what I mean). I'm otherwise OK with everything else you said.

 

[Der Einzige]

I'm alittle confused. I'm playing as Kyrene and I conquered Alexandria. So I go to the religious page and so I can appoint a Pentarch and it says that "There is currently no Apollo-Heliosean Bishop of Alexandria" so I'm wondering how I can appoint a bishop. There was already a religious district there but I built anotherone to see if I can appoint one then, still nothing. So I grant the title to one of my vassals and still no option. So how do I do this?

.... anyone?

 

[Comm Cody]

.... anyone?

Wait for the current bishop of Alexandria to die.

Or revoke it by force.

 

[Numahr]

Wait for the current bishop of Alexandria to die.

Wait... did you say "wait"? Hum you seem to be a patient dure

---

Anyway I had a look at the change log. Many small interesting things (excluding cosmetic ones, which BTW are really interesting too):
- Added support in traits for tolerance of other religion groups: nice in itself. I thought of scholarly / platonic religions, some could get a "curious" trait or something ("this character is interested in learning about other religious systems, and enjoys theological debates with like-minded people of other faiths") if they have access to other religions in their court and/or high education buildings, giving them a nice boost including tolerance. Also we can think of small tolerance boosts in existing traits.
- Added 'priests_can_inherit' to religions: nice, we can further refine how the clergy works in different religious systems. Ideas welcome
- Exported some AI raid parameters to defines: let's see what else they let us tweak, I was already kind of happy?
- Added battle_warscore_mult setting to cb_types, this modifies the warscore gained from battles in wars using that CB: well seen riknap, I would not have paid much attention to this one without your emphasis. Yes, very interesting, I see that we can use it for the martial-holy war CB to boost authority gained from battles in this kind of wars (reminder: the CB is used as an authority harvester through war), maybe we can even use this mechanic to reduce the prestige gain to be obtained through winning the war (which had to be fixed). Maybe even remove it. So you would just end the holy war, gaining as much as you gained through battles, and declare the war season over. On the contrary, in a less obvious way, some other CB may focus more on occupying holdings (the révolutionary wars of the populist religions?).
- Religious (non-heretic) rebels: obviously, interesting. They mention a decrease in revolt risk. We just decreased our revolt risk values, maybe we will need to increase them again?
-

Otherwise the main benefit for LI religions IMO is the mechanic upon which heresies can topple mainstream religions. That is going to be a breakthrough. The HO changes are important too.


If we are brave, we could give hérésies an event or decision to change once they have become mainstream, so that they indeed get the mainstream status. But that is not a short-term plan, it would involve creating so many new religions so, considering the efforts involved, there are lower-hanging fruits to be collected before...

---

@ riknap: with SELIN TOG features mostly completed, I think we could focus on defining the religions enjoying the warrior cults for this version, and leave the issue of balance for the next version, as it may be related to HO. Integration of succession law limits should be in the next release too as it is not going to be long to implement and it is really key to the balance of the reform mechanic.

 

[unmerged(515410)]

I am growing to love this mod the more I play it. My biggest concern with it at the moment is self inflicted, as seeing all these vibrant cultures and religions go down to my rather monolithic Norman Catholic is a depressing loss of diversity.

I think I will briefly switch to SPQR in order to create a rival for my growing state. So many interesting states to play is resulting in confusing indecision on my part.

 

[Darkgamma]

Play Khwarazmshahiyan. A fun playime guaranteed

 

[DarkReborn]

Play Khwarazmshahiyan. A fun playime guaranteed

An Ahriman game is a fun game.

 

[alxeu]

I asked on the last page, but I'll ask again. Do we need to still go through the process of deleting portrait pack references if we don't have the portrait packs?

Could someone please answer my question, or at least acknowledge my existence? I really want to play this mod, but my dad won't buy me the portrait packs.

 

[DarkReborn]

Could someone please answer my question, or at least acknowledge my existence? I really want to play this mod, but my dad won't buy me the portrait packs.

I'm not giving any help on that front. BLC needs to have all DLC portraits as requirement or it'll get into legal trouble with Paradox.

 

[riknap]

@Numahr

regarding holy orders, I was thinking - if you're planning to make them that way, then would it be better if the "jump" wasn't severe?

for example, if we can reduce the troop bonus of the cult buildings, then the jump to reformation wouldn't be very disheartening (since right now, those cult buildings pretty much double/triple the base sizes of cult-having religions, which is a very strong argument against reforming as it'll mean significantly reducing the total manpower of the realm, something no amount of holy orders, whether in quantity of men per order or number of different orders or both, can compensate).

For this matter I'm proposing something like cutting the amount of troops of the current existing cult-buildings by 50~75% so that the "dissolution" of the buildings that would come from reformation would not be a shot on the foot and would instead be something more like exchanging a mild bonus in men for access to holy orders.
Alternatively/additionally, we can instead/also make "reforming the faith" unlock a (series or) similar cult-building(s) with fewer troops instead.

Right now, while you're proposal are attractive in theory, in practice the gameplay shift from "pagan et. al." and reformed is just too self destructive for a player to feasibly consider. It's like exchanging an "Iron Axe +10" with 90 base damage for a "Spectral Reaver" ... with 30 base damage and 20-100 random critical damage - ie. the reformation may have moments wherein the presence of holy orders will more than compensate for the loss of warrior cults (for smaller realms with pious leaders), but the likelihood that it'll be a net loss (for moderately large realms and average-leaders) since the lost number of men from potential warrior cults just doesn't add up to the number of holy order soldiers.

Now that I've read Numahr's post in a bit more detail, I agree with the level of complexity. Fractals are always optimal, shore, but I like his ideas.

Well, it's nowhere near our main project, but I think Riknap's (?) slowly, slowly, slowly been working on it

why does english have to distinguish between the present tense and future tense? @_@

Could someone please answer my question, or at least acknowledge my existence? I really want to play this mod, but my dad won't buy me the portrait packs.

you don't need the portrait packs to play the game. LI-BLC is entirely optional, so I don't understand why you *need* it.
Of course, your game will use vanilla faces that way, but it's entirely playable.

 

[Worldcrusher]

It's like exchanging an "Iron Axe +10" with 90 base damage for a "Spectral Reaver" ... with 30 base damage and 20-100 random critical damage - ie. the reformation may have moments wherein the presence of holy orders will more than compensate for the loss of warrior cults (for smaller realms with pious leaders), but the likelihood that it'll be a net loss (for moderately large realms and average-leaders) since the lost number of men from potential warrior cults just doesn't add up to the number of holy order soldiers.

This is my new favourite analogy.

 

[riknap]

@futuregary
the observe save you shared is for revision 451 right? while I'm still using 453 (which is essentially 451 + loading screens + your save), loading your observe simply gives me a black map. I'm guessing you have a different setup that you didn't commit yet, aye?

@others using the SVN builds
since I really haven't had an answer in the past, I'll ask again - does loading a saved game take a long time as well for you guys? or is there really something odd with my files (ie. needing to redownload the SVN for simplicity)?

This is my new favourite analogy.

grammar mistakes aside, happy to be of service :rofl:

 

[unmerged(621604)]

This has probably been brought up before... "Forn Sidr" means past times, a more correct name for it would be Asatro or simply Hedendom.

 

[alxeu]

Thank you!

 

[Darkgamma]

An Ahriman game is a fun game.

You're even allowed allies in Azerbaijan!

 

[Der Einzige]

Wait for the current bishop of Alexandria to die.

Or revoke it by force.

The religious buildings in the city are Religious Districts rather than Bishoprics would that be a problem?

I'll try what you said though.