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riknap

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I could do breakdowns, but I think in that hour I'll take to do so, I can already recreate the original situation with cheats.
Therefore I present a Massively Cheated Save; or (Second) Rome was Built in a Day (2 years).
View attachment 93301

(But mostly, the defense/offense comes from the normal traditions and the late-game buildings. Admittedly, I misremembered and it was actually around 300%.
As for units, it was the Levy: Heavy Cavalry and Heavy Infantry/Athanoi Corps that is contributing to pre-modifier levy.
I think it has a yearly income around 50 in autumn.)

huh. well, no surprises if it was coming from those buildings then. (though I might want to rebalance the costs and look into those buildings again, since Shaytana did want the military component to be difficult to fully support. )

that said, thanks for the save! I'll look into it in-depth when my exams (and with it the semester) are over and I go modding all-day (or try to at least :laugh: )

still, +300% is... quite huge though.
it definitely makes retinues weaker in comparison once modifiers overtake them. I'll need to rebalance both so that retinues are still stronger no matter what, but not significantly stronger than they already are (at most, I'll cap the modifiers to +200~250% )
 

riknap

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As far as I see it Germany is the only country that has no bloodline at all while for example GB has I dont know 15 ?

there's Arminius at least... eventually :p
 

Numahr

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I need to ask but...
has anyone noticed if the pagan Disposition Laws actually affect stuff aside from tax and levies?

for example, I seem to have noticed that garrison size does not actually increase (presumably because garrison size is only scoped to provincial/building modifiers ).
That said, does
a) "castle levy"
b) levy reinforcement
c) morale
d) morale recovery / land organization
these values actually change as well? I mean, can someone conduct an experiment for me and check which values ACTUALLY have an in-game effect? the placebo effect really isn't my style, and while it's nice to look at it's still meaningless fluff if it doesn't actually do anything...
I'd like to know if I should change them to something else or make applicator-events to make them stick, or do they (or some at least) work already.

Hey, I have overall rather good news for you. Thanks to the holy day of "Kurban" (sacrifice), I can actually lunch the game, and I run a few tests. Result is that I can confirm that:

a) works as it reduces the % of levy your vassals give you, as intended (don't mix with the reduction in levy size that provincial modifiers give - the tool tip is onfusing in that regard).

b) cannot work as a triggered modifier, that is the only bad news, but not a surprising one. On the other hand I check that it works as a provincial modifier and it does. Pyromantic, which unfortunately has a very small levy to begin with, reinforces it at a record speed as expected while the Wotanist rulers are very slow.

c) ? Unfortunately no tool tip gives you the morale value in absolut numbers, only %, so I lack a precise tool

d) seems to be working. Wotanists (with the update of yesterday on triggered_modifiers) has a -75% land organization and low authority generates -25%. Guess what, in this configuration, starting wotanist armies recover... +0 morale every week, as intended. Again, load a pyromantic ruler and you will see the bonus at work: +19.6 /week!

As a conclusion, only the reinforce modifier should be scrapped, and I am not sure it is worth creating a system of provincial modifiers just for that.

As a side note, the "barbarian" warfare has found a sweet spot I think with the massive reduction in land organization I have recently introduced in the religious modifiers (not coded yet). You can easily assembly large war hosts :mad:... but don't loose a battle! That will be the premature end of your war :confused:... such a huge contrast with the Hellenistic kingdoms and their ability to have an army at full morale in just a month and continue campaigning even after a crushing defeat :glare:...

---

@riknap: Beside, since I had a look at it, I find the % bonus in levy size in buildings overpowered. 10% levy size for each level means really a too quick increase in army sizes. With this you can have 50% larger armies in just a few years / decades! An its gets soon out of control... Note that it also quickly cancels the carefully balanced religious modifiers which are in a range of -20% / +50% levy size. This is not game-breaking, and it is your realm really, but I would happily favor a very significant decrease in levy size bonus generated by "buildings."
 
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riknap

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a) works as it reduces the % of levy your vassals give you, as intended (don't mix with the reduction in levy size that provincial modifiers give - the tool tip is onfusing in that regard).
so how is the Castle Levy Size modifier different from the Castle Vassal Levy modifier then? this is what I really do not understand...

right now, I'm partially convinced that stuff like "castle_levy_size = X" are placebo modifiers in comparison to stuff like "castle_vassal_max_levy = Y" which is the thing you were describing above...

b) cannot work as a triggered modifier, that is the only bad news, but not a surprising one. On the other hand I check that it works as a provincial modifier and it does. Pyromantic, which unfortunately has a very small levy to begin with, reinforces it at a record speed as expected while the Wotanist rulers are very slow.

aye, so provincial modifiers for this then huh...
(or probably scrap it... depends on my priorities I guess)

c) ? Unfortunately no tool tip gives you the morale value in absolut numbers, only %, so I lack a precise tool

an experiment to test this is to temporarily give yourself 5000 "prestige", wait till max laws, and then fight a same-culture same-religion enemy with a relatively equal army (ie. same martial commanders with relatively the same traits).

and probably experimentally change the morale bonus from the laws to absurd values to see it better I guess?

of course, that's only if you're relatively free right now.
I intend to run an experiment myself... a week from now though.


d) seems to be working. Wotanists (with the update of yesterday on triggered_modifiers) has a -75% land organization and low authority generates -25%. Guess what, in this configuration, starting wotanist armies recover... +0 morale every week, as intended. Again, load a pyromantic ruler and you will see the bonus at work: +19.6 /week!
...

you need to remember that vassal armies start with almost zero morale though, so they'll essentially.... never actually organize.
if that's intended, then that's fine I guess.

As a conclusion, only the reinforce modifier should be scrapped, and I am not sure it is worth creating a system of provincial modifiers just for that.

assuming morale works then and "castle levy size" actually has an effect as I was asking above, I might consider transferring the morale and/or morale recovery somewhere (since the garrison laws of burghers don't actually increase as well ).

right now, I'm tempted to just increase the tax modifier of the mercantile disposition laws for simplicity, and transferring the morale bonus to martial disposition and morale recovery (assuming it does work on a LAW-level ) remains with missionary disposition.


@riknap: Beside, since I had a look at it, I find the % bonus in levy size in buildings overpowered. 10% levy size for each level means really a too quick increase in army sizes. With this you can have 50% larger armies in just a few years / decades! An its gets soon out of control... Note that it also quickly cancels the carefully balanced religious modifiers which are in a range of -20% / +50% levy size. This is not game-breaking, and it is your realm really, but I would happily favor a very significant decrease in levy size bonus generated by "buildings."

aye. I've been looking into re-calibrating and re-thinking levy sizes from buildings again actually.

right now, a fully upgraded holding could easily have +900% levy multiplier. While that IS actually WAD, since my earlier design principle was that instead of directly increasing the number of troops PRE-modifiers, the EFFECT of modifiers are instead increased so that the ratio/composition remains the same and that growth is over-time instead of instantaneous with every military-upgrade, I've been rethinking how to rebalance it for some time now.

For now, adding an extra decimal point would be a fairly fast solution, reducing overall levy growth by a factor of ten :rofl:
That said, while I do plan to do just that, I still plan to once again fine-tune levy sizes from buildings in more detail than just simply using a blanket solution alone.

still, since I've made buildings 50% cheaper in general, that works in its favour. Hell, I might experiment with making buildings up to 75% cheaper and see how that pans out in the long run (though instinct tells me that's a bad idea :laugh: ).

(that said, since the balance of city and temple buildings are heavily based on the "base" template of castle buildings, I guess those holdings will also recieve a blanket solution without the appropriate general-rebalancing [and thus removal of the level 8 tech limiter] for now ).




now go use that holy day to do holy work for LI :laugh:



@futuregary

I also keep forgetting to ask this, but...

do you happen to know what happened tot he Grant Estates "honorary title" (where honorary title got renamed to Decisions) ?
I'm guessing it's a casualty of those FnF stuff of course, but I might be mistaken...
 
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Retinues currently cost 7.5% unit-weight for hiring and reinforcing and 75% unit-weight for maintenance, and I'm tweaking that to 33.3% for all, so that in the next iteration they're an expensive up-front investment but more tolerable afterwards.

still, the retinues being powerful is fully intended - they represent the strongest, most-elite soldiers in the realm, not just "professional" soldiers. you'll probably have noticed their total bonuses total to +100%.
I did notice it, but they're just too expensive to keep up. A change to 33% would help, but retinues still need some way of disbanding at least with such an upkeep. In my game, I was forced to take a loan in order to start a war to start suiciding them one by one, just to cut my expenses.


again from the gameplay-guide post:

Grant Title: 5/5 gold/authority

I Claim
availability: presence of a valid claim (any of above)
requirements: 50 gold stockpiled, 100 authority stockpiled, 10% annual income used

again, those are fully WAD. giving away titles doesn't just involve signing away land as it does in vanilla. in LI, titles represent government mechanisms, and establishing new ones cost gold and authority.
granted, it's not well explained yet...
I understand that there's some costs attached, but my son who has been begging me for that duchy for ten years now should certainly be willing to pay those himself, no?

as for wars costing huge amounts of wealth, that is fully and completely WAD. Different wars have different costs and requirements (again, refer to the gameplay-guide post ), but in general wars are fully intended to be expensive, and the costs represent the myriad things that have to be paid for when starting a war, especially for the non-claim CB's (for example, think of propaganda, logistics, bribery, lost economic productivity, etc).
I'm mostly referring to the glorious conquest CB costing up to 4000 at some points, whereas I could use a holy war against an area that is bigger and more well defended and only pay 25. It's a bit skewed, no?


those sieging glitches are likely not the mod's fault.

still, the ratio of attackers:defenders ideal is much greater in this mod, ie. 25, so assaulting without a 25:1 ratio (of identical troops) is tricky


that said, this is a not so well-known vanilla behaviour, but assaulting primarily uses the skirmish-phase stats, so an assault with tons of LI and AR is far stronger than an assault with HI and KN.[/QUOTE]

It wasn't that tricky, though. Like I said, retinue troops could siege holdings at a 1:1 ratio. I had absolutely no issue sieging anything with them, even the HRE capital with 2k garrison and 8 fort fell in ten days. But siege a tiny city with a normal army and suddenly my troops start walking into spears or something?

mercenaries being cheap is fully intended. they have an expensive upfront cost yet minimal upkeep cost (50% unit-weight ).
as for AI selling out as mercs, I'm not sure I understand what you're saying
I'm referring to the fact all the mercenary groups are owned by the AI. In the war to claim independence from my duke, I intentionally hired HIS army as mercenaries to win the war.


opinions range from 0~100, unlike vanilla which is from -50~100, so there's that.
plus your ruler's martial score increases the amount of levies he can raise at 15 and 30 stat intervals, not to mention laws affect them a lot.
as for them shrinking naturally, I have no idea why...

note though that levy regeneration is intentionally slower as a whole, so the fastest way to regenerate levies is to have more county-vassals...
The levy sizes themselves weren't even shrinking intially, the max levies just kept going down until eventually I could raise 0/0 troops.





that's vanilla behaviour though :p
In Vanilla you don't have to deal with ever county in your de jure being a different religion though.


well, if you have a strong martial character(s), then fighting is indeed a piece of cake. it's the preparation that's hard, as is WAD and IRL :p

glad to know you're enjoying it though of course xD

Piece of cake as in did not lose a single battle in over 50 wars and never once raised a single levy either because retinues are that good. Definitely am enjoying it though.



- As a reformed religion, you cannot loot anymore. A reformed religion means, among other things, that you join the "concert of nations" and that your people change their lifestyle. "Reforming" is a kin to "institutionalization."

- In the publicly available build, reformed religions are pretty much WIP so reforming may indeed be bad.

- We are now working hard on coding reformed religions. In particular, you are right to claim that reforming should open the possibilities for better succession laws. That should be one of the main incentives for reforming. I will have a look at that, or maybe riknap can as it is more his realm.

- Even after reforming has been fully coded, you may want to remain "primitive." Genghis Khan historically had such a choice and decided to go for not "reforming" so to say, although his successors did. So although reformed religions should give more benefits than you experienced in your game, you should also loose something, it should not be a straightforward choice.

- ForgottenFury, could you please tell us: did you feel the effect of tribal politics modifiers? Those modifiers based on authority. They are supposed to make a low authority ruler weaker than normal, but a high authority ruler stronger than normal. And what about the pagan virtues? (virtues being different for pagans than for catholics)

- Look at my signature, first item of the workplan, for links to maps of holy sites. riknap, please feel free to publish them / incorporate them anywhere you want.

Tribal politics initially worked perfectly, but I noticed them disappearing from my law options when I became emperor. They might still have been there though, didn't bother looking at my modifiers.


Now that all's said and done, I would totally be up to multiplayer this if anyone's willing to host a hamachi game.
 

riknap

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@Numahr

I remembered something

shouldn't reformed religions be also able to stiill keep their cult buildings?

for example, warrior cults shouldn't disappear just because they reformed, and shouldn't mithraic cults also be the same

(that said, I'd appreciate it if you give a full list of updated religions for the warrior cults, as well as the relevant cult religions so that I could add them )

@DarkReborn

good to know. that's much more realistic too

I did notice it, but they're just too expensive to keep up. A change to 33% would help, but retinues still need some way of disbanding at least with such an upkeep. In my game, I was forced to take a loan in order to start a war to start suiciding them one by one, just to cut my expenses.

I understand that there's some costs attached, but my son who has been begging me for that duchy for ten years now should certainly be willing to pay those himself, no?

I'm mostly referring to the glorious conquest CB costing up to 4000 at some points, whereas I could use a holy war against an area that is bigger and more well defended and only pay 25. It's a bit skewed, no?


It wasn't that tricky, though. Like I said, retinue troops could siege holdings at a 1:1 ratio. I had absolutely no issue sieging anything with them, even the HRE capital with 2k garrison and 8 fort fell in ten days. But siege a tiny city with a normal army and suddenly my troops start walking into spears or something?


I'm referring to the fact all the mercenary groups are owned by the AI. In the war to claim independence from my duke, I intentionally hired HIS army as mercenaries to win the war.



The levy sizes themselves weren't even shrinking intially, the max levies just kept going down until eventually I could raise 0/0 troops.



In Vanilla you don't have to deal with ever county in your de jure being a different religion though.


Tribal politics initially worked perfectly, but I noticed them disappearing from my law options when I became emperor. They might still have been there though, didn't bother looking at my modifiers.


Now that all's said and done, I would totally be up to multiplayer this if anyone's willing to host a hamachi game.

a multiplayer game some time in the future would be nice. if only my internet could support it.

as for tribal politics not working for reformed religions, that probably because I haven't added the reformed religions yet.

as for different religions not accepting vassalisation, those are hard-coded though it seems so not much we can do about it

as for retinues assaulting like cakewalk, that'll depend on retinue-type of course :laugh:

as for war declarations, they take your annual income to accout, and since income is seasonal, declaring war at fall is far more expensive than declaring war at another season

that said, holy wars are indeed relatively cheap to declare right now, that much I agree with.

as for that begging for a duchy thingy.... well... can't you just hope for events to give it to him for free? :laugh:

one thing about authority costs is that their event counterparts are still mostly free, so you only use up authority when you do actions that are against the natural flow of things, eg. courtiers petitioning themselves ( I might need to increase frequency of those events though ... )



in the next version, there are PT-inspired decisions I've been planning on making :
a) a "raise war tax" decision that gives you a lump sum of gold from vassals at times of war in exchange for something like 100 authority
b) a general "levy taxation" decision that gives you a lump sum of gold from vassals at times of peace in exchange for around 500 authority
c) a "reduce taxation" decision that reduces vassal taxation (either temporarily or toggleable depending on how I could code it ) a lot in exchange for an increase in opinion and authority.

these should hopefully make active management of your cash more possible and probably more rewarding... I hope
 
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Numahr

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now go use that holy day to do holy work for LI :laugh:
Well I did... Today was test day and so I have a few more results to share... I really wanted to get clarity on these issues!

so how is the Castle Levy Size modifier different from the Castle Vassal Levy modifier then? this is what I really do not understand...

right now, I'm partially convinced that stuff like "castle_levy_size = X" are placebo modifiers in comparison to stuff like "castle_vassal_max_levy = Y" which is the thing you were describing above...

I announce officially that castle/city/temple_levy_size = X is a provincial modifier only. It has no effect as a realm modifier. Only castle/city/temple_vassal_max/min_levy = Y works as a realm modifier.

In SELIN files it was a legacy from the pre-Legacy of Rome recruitment system. I need to overhaul SELIN accordingly. I will probably substitute x_vassal_min_levy = values to _levy_size = ones, but I need to look at this.

[on land_morale] an experiment to test this is to temporarily give yourself 5000 "prestige", wait till max laws, and then fight a same-culture same-religion enemy with a relatively equal army (ie. same martial commanders with relatively the same traits).

and probably experimentally change the morale bonus from the laws to absurd values to see it better I guess?

of course, that's only if you're relatively free right now.
I intend to run an experiment myself... a week from now though.

I confirm officially that land_morale = x works as intended as a realm modifier.

I had tested it actually when I first released SELIN... but as the above examples shows, many things changed since then. So anyway, a smallish army with 500% morale bonus could stand against all enemies, sometimes 10 times larger. No need to mention that the fate of its soldiers was not merrier for that as their high morale did not stop swords and arrows... but their morale never went below 80%.


[on land_organization aka morale recovery] you need to remember that vassal armies start with almost zero morale though, so they'll essentially.... never actually organize.
if that's intended, then that's fine I guess.

Good point. But perfect. No religion gives you -100% land organization. You get to that abysmal level only when your religion AND your tribal politics bring you there. So yes, a Wotanist ruler with no respect from his fellow warriors will not be able to use raised levies, he will need first to gain respect from them. I say nice to this! More immersive barbarian warfare/politics and more distinction from "civilized" warfare.

assuming morale works then and "castle levy size" actually has an effect as I was asking above, I might consider transferring the morale and/or morale recovery somewhere (since the garrison laws of burghers don't actually increase as well ).

right now, I'm tempted to just increase the tax modifier of the mercantile disposition laws for simplicity, and transferring the morale bonus to martial disposition and morale recovery (assuming it does work on a LAW-level ) remains with missionary disposition.

If so, please consider, as a suggestion, solely for immersion purposes:
- giving the total morale bonus (land_morale) to religious disposition. Your soldiers are ready to die on the battlefield if they believe the gods are with you!
- giving the morale recovery modifier (land_organization) to martial disposition Your soldiers are ready to regroup after a crushing defeat if they believe in your ability as war commander.

aye. I've been looking into re-calibrating and re-thinking levy sizes from buildings again actually.

right now, a fully upgraded holding could easily have +900% levy multiplier. While that IS actually WAD, since my earlier design principle was that instead of directly increasing the number of troops PRE-modifiers, the EFFECT of modifiers are instead increased so that the ratio/composition remains the same and that growth is over-time instead of instantaneous with every military-upgrade, I've been rethinking how to rebalance it for some time now.

For now, adding an extra decimal point would be a fairly fast solution, reducing overall levy growth by a factor of ten :rofl:
That said, while I do plan to do just that, I still plan to once again fine-tune levy sizes from buildings in more detail than just simply using a blanket solution alone.

still, since I've made buildings 50% cheaper in general, that works in its favour. Hell, I might experiment with making buildings up to 75% cheaper and see how that pans out in the long run (though instinct tells me that's a bad idea :laugh: ).

I was thinking a five-fold reduction in levy_size was in order, but I did not dare share my though as I believed you would find it too radical... ;)

Actually your 10-time decrease with 50% price discount gets to the same order of magnitude int terms of levy_size /gold. So I fully support. Also making "buildings" cheaper but somehow less dramatic in their impacts makes perfect sense as the LI/LIBERT3 "buildings" really represent small incremental steps...

@Numahr
I remembered something
shouldn't reformed religions be also able to stiill keep their cult buildings?

Good question. Nobody ever said anything on this. Let me think on the cult building and I'll come back to you shortly with a consolidated vision taking into account all the recent developments...

as for tribal politics not working for reformed religions, that probably because I haven't added the reformed religions yet.
That's WAD actually ;) When reforming, you institutionalize and politics do not rely so much on the personal charisma of your ruler.

as for different religions not accepting vassalisation, those are hard-coded though it seems so not much we can do about it
Not sure we would like to do anything against this anyway. This is LI... Religious enemies can tolerate each other as neighbors, but as overlords??? :confused:

in the next version, there are PT-inspired decisions I've been planning on making :
a) a "raise war tax" decision that gives you a lump sum of gold from vassals at times of war in exchange for something like 100 authority
b) a general "levy taxation" decision that gives you a lump sum of gold from vassals at times of peace in exchange for around 500 authority
c) a "reduce taxation" decision that reduces vassal taxation (either temporarily or toggleable depending on how I could code it ) a lot in exchange for an increase in opinion and authority.

these should hopefully make active management of your cash more possible and probably more rewarding... I hope

Sounds nice! Any active decision for the player is interesting... see my own plans in this regard... :happy:

--- EDIT ---

I changed the Matrix based on findings above. Change log reads:
- changed levy_size = values in character modifiers into vassal_min_levy = values. Nerfed values accordingly.

New Matrix dated as of today accessible in my signature and here.
 
Last edited:

riknap

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I announce officially that castle/city/temple_levy_size = X is a provincial modifier only. It has no effect as a realm modifier. Only castle/city/temple_vassal_max/min_levy = Y works as a realm modifier.

In SELIN files it was a legacy from the pre-Legacy of Rome recruitment system. I need to overhaul SELIN accordingly. I will probably substitute x_vassal_min_levy = values to _levy_size = ones, but I need to look at this.

I see.
well, levy-size CAN work for the provincial modifiers though (but not the triggered modifiers). we can (and probably really should) segregate provincial and character modifiers really :laugh:

I confirm officially that land_morale = x works as intended as a realm modifier.

I had tested it actually when I first released SELIN... but as the above examples shows, many things changed since then. So anyway, a smallish army with 500% morale bonus could stand against all enemies, sometimes 10 times larger. No need to mention that the fate of its soldiers was not merrier for that as their high morale did not stop swords and arrows... but their morale never went below 80%.


If so, please consider, as a suggestion, solely for immersion purposes:
- giving the total morale bonus (land_morale) to religious disposition. Your soldiers are ready to die on the battlefield if they believe the gods are with you!
- giving the morale recovery modifier (land_organization) to martial disposition Your soldiers are ready to regroup after a crushing defeat if they believe in your ability as war commander.

the base morale is 0.5 it would seem, so an army with land_morale = 5 has 10x more morale actually :))

(that said, I've been considering increasing the base morale to 1 and decreasing base morale recovery to 10% instead of the current 10% to better balance combat and make modifier bonus effects from... a hundred differentt sources :laugh: slightly not as radical as they currently are )

that said, this might "dilute" the morale effects of SELIN though. for now, I'll still need to review the files more comprehensively before I decide to go through increasing the base morale or just individually recalibrating values, but a heads up to you was in order though.

I was thinking a five-fold reduction in levy_size was in order, but I did not dare share my though as I believed you would find it too radical... ;)

Actually your 10-time decrease with 50% price discount gets to the same order of magnitude int terms of levy_size /gold. So I fully support. Also making "buildings" cheaper but somehow less dramatic in their impacts makes perfect sense as the LI/LIBERT3 "buildings" really represent small incremental steps...

"I would find it too radical"

"I"

ie. riknap, who pretty much turned LI from a paradox-game-tier alt-history simulator into a dwarf-fortress-tier alt-history simulator

:rofl:

kidding aside, the 10-fold levy reduction was just asking for it really.
that said, that also means garrison-sizes need to get the punt as well anyway.

Good question. Nobody ever said anything on this. Let me think on the cult building and I'll come back to you shortly with a consolidated vision taking into account all the recent developments...

aye.
I'm personally for keeping them in btw, but that might have some complications wherein religions which previously did not have cults would suddenly have them.

so something that "flags" the religion as having previous-access to cult-army-buildings would be nice

that, or giving the cult-type religions their own reformed religion.... (which... feels odd though )

That's WAD actually ;) When reforming, you institutionalize and politics do not rely anymore on the personal charisma of your ruler.

fair enough...

though would that work well with an in-game transition? ie. would changing from one set of demesne laws to another be a flawless transition?

if it is, then that's nice and all I say.

Not sure we would like to do anything against this anyway. This is LI... Religious enemies can tolerate each other as neighbors, but as overlords??? :confused:

aye, so too I say xD

Sounds nice! Any active decision for the player is interesting... so my own plans in this regard... :happy:

yes, that heptagon thing has been attracting my eye and attention since time immemorial too

:p
:laugh:
 

Numahr

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well, levy-size CAN work for the provincial modifiers though (but not the triggered modifiers). we can (and probably really should) segregate provincial and character modifiers really :laugh:

Well.. .if you allow me saying so... I think the SELIN Matrix does a pretty good work at it actually :cool: I try to remain up to date and I think it is a good resource of what modifiers actually exist and work at both levels. They are clearly segregated, too :) (columns 52 to 91 = realm modifiers; columns 93 to 113 = provincial modifiers)
 

riknap

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Well.. .if you allow me saying so... I think the SELIN Matrix does a pretty good work at it actually :cool: I try to remain up to date and I think it is a good resource of what modifiers actually exist and work at both levels. They are clearly segregated, too :) (columns 52 to 91 = realm modifiers; columns 93 to 113 = provincial modifiers)

well, I was actually referring to implementation though. like having only provincial-scale modifiers affect the provincial modifiers, and only realm-type modifiers affecting the character directly. that would essentially mean something like increasing the castle_levy_size thing for provincial modidifiers while removing them from character modifiers.
unless it already does that though :p (I'm trying hard not to get tempted and look, as I just know I'll end up modding something )


as for the reformation transition to standard Demands/Obligations sliders, based on Arumba's LP's episode 34's footage it looks like it does work properly, so...
xD
 

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Coming back to the levy bug, it appears the clergy missionary disposition toward you negatively influences levy sizes. Getting max disposition with them decreased my already tiny levy from 111 to 74 troops.

odd....
the laws are supposed to increase it though...
@_@
I wonder what's up. Can you help us out and give guesses to what's causing that?

also, it's possible that the Realm Duress is the one affecting your troop sizes...
 

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This has constantly happened to me every single game I've played so far. It's worth noticing that when I load up the save I have access to my full levy, but within a week it goes back to the insanely low values.

Edit: Currently letting the game run again from an older save. I'll post before/after screenshot of exactly when the law upgrades around 3000 authority. I think it'll cause levies to drop again.
 

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well, I was actually referring to implementation though. like having only provincial-scale modifiers affect the provincial modifiers, and only realm-type modifiers affecting the character directly. that would essentially mean something like increasing the castle_levy_size thing for provincial modidifiers while removing them from character modifiers.
unless it already does that though :p

Well, but the situation you describe does not happen. As a matter of facts, each modifier I know works either at a realm level or at a provincial level. There is no modifier referenced in the Matrix (as in: in the known universe) that has the same effect at a realm level and provincial level. Take levy modifiers: the realm modifiers affect how much your vassals are ready to grant you their levies; the province modifiers affect the size of the levy which can be raised from the province and its holdings. And it is the same for every thing, provincial modifiers all do things totally different from realm modifiers.

So modifiers are indeed segregated, not due to our sense of orderly modding, but just because of the game engine... ;)
 

riknap

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Found the actual cause. The Well Respected Ruler trait is having reverse effects. When I open up the game, I have full levies. One day later, less than a third. Then, as soon as the trait upgrades, I lose even more.

See here: http://imgur.com/a/Kq8w2 (order is reverse, sorry)
huh...

are you sure it's just not just the other selin modifiers triggering at odd times though?
those modifiers have been working correctly since the previous versions, so I'm not sure why it's acting up for you. and the laws seem to have been working properly as well based on arumba's playthrough (and I ended up double checking the code just now and there are no miscoded modifiers anywhere... )

is that with the release version or the SVN version?

@LI-council

his religion is "Forn Sidr". I'm having trouble hunting that religion down to check its modifiers, does anyone know what it its string is? and if the modifiers of that religion are working properly?
 

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@LI-council

his religion is "Forn Sidr". I'm having trouble hunting that religion down to check its modifiers, does anyone know what it its string is? and if the modifiers of that religion are working properly?

Forn Sidr is norse_pagan I believe... I remember to have changed it back to Asatru, though.