Is there any file that has the progression of buildings? Or do you just have to decide on an individual basis what you want?
[MOD] Lux Invicta
- Thread starter riknap
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the building chains interlink at many points (e.g. to build the more advanced military buildings you need to upgrade a chain to a certain level - to reach THAT though there's another chain that needs to be upgraded, and so on back and forth)
Veliky Knyaz should not be just any minor russian ruler, it's supposed to be a 'high king', and tsar means emperor more or less.
More or less, it also means king in current standards. Peter the Great was the first Imperator -> Emperor. Before that Tsar was rather translated as king-tier title, while of course this term was established as emperor title of Bulgarian rulers. But it devalued later.
But you may be right that in this timeline Tsar should be meant as empire-tier title. Still, there will be a problem with lower tiers, when we move them higher level. Especially it works for all Slavs as well. Now Boyar is holder of barony, Knyaz - county, and Velky Knyaz - duchy. For higher kingdom-tier titles we have kings or supreme prince (of Nitra). If you move K. and V.K. titles higher, who will be county ruler then? Boyar won't work here... and even if, who will you give for baronies?
Tell me, when we have "from_dynasty_prefix", is there a possibility to have also suffix? In Slavic terms, especially Polish and Czech, saying "from Krakow" will work as "Krakowski" / "Krakovský" for them. With english mechanics it will work horrible though, making "Prahaský" instead of "Pražský", but I wonder if it's even possible - I've found no command for it.
Baronies could be something like bogotyr which is an honorific knight, you could use just baron which was used in russia I believe, rytsar or vsadnik which both mean knight, and finally pridvornyi / tsaredvorets which mean courtier.
I second that "Tsar"="Emperor", "Velikiy Knyaz"="King". For counts you can use "Udelny Knyaz" (while keeping "Boyarin" for barons); it'll be quite historical, as far as I understand. In fact, I've already implemented all these changes, see the pastebin link in my post here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ux-Invicta&p=14636587&viewfull=1#post14636587
By the way, you've never answered my question on which russian names that I suggested caused doubts for you.
Funnily enough, have you ever looked at Polish culture in 00_cultures.txt?
This is hashed out:
Code:
from_dynasty_prefix = "of "
#male_patronym = "owski"
#female_patronym = "owska"
#prefix = no
Got a small bug to report about one of the Sarmato-Brython culture buildings, looked though the 00_building.txt and problem was the ca_hcha_trad_5 building never had culture = sarmatobrython line.
The Russian translations of 'Augustus' and 'Emperor' are 'Avgust' and 'Imperator.' Maybe those can be used.
I'm editing it, that's why I asked.
Yes, I've seen it long ago. As stated before, this suffix comes from localization, not patronymics. Slavic patronymic suffixes are similar: -owi(e)c (Poland), -ovec (Bohemia), -ovich (Russia).
But later those suffixes in Poland have mixed, and -ski became standard surname suffix - regardless of what the last name was created from.
I've mentioned the second one already.
And did you consider it works for other Slavic nations as well? This system isn't perfect and I've discussed about it with Shaytana already. And after it I think it should actually stay like that.
Slavs had not that simple system - every traditional ruler was "knyaz"! There were just some of them in higher position than others. Because of that we use today terms like "Udelny" or "Velikiy" to differ. So keeping that way, we should have "knyaz" from counts to kings. In OTL new titles came from the west (for western Slavs), and in Russia it stayed like was already. Until the first Tsars and Emperors.
At least we should split localization for Russians and other Slavic nations.
And I thought "Udelnoe Knyazestvo" was higher that normal "Knyazestvo"...
Those are Zvonimir and Gostomysl. Many of names from your list didn't see before (Kriv, Lesyar, Mestyatka, Ostromir and other), so it's hard to me to say something about them. Some have even strange construction, like Peresvet.
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OK there are a few issues which raised my interest... 
Shaytana's words on this were that it was an overkill due to the fact that he will get culturally assimilated anyway... but he was not really opposed to it, just giving it low priority in his grand scheme of things... of course our scheme of things is smaller so why not...
As for the religion, the default for Christianity is clerical, and I think it fits quite well the context you are describing where evangelist priests went on conversion missions on their own initiatives, resulting in a semi-autonomous clergy. So it could be Christian / local / clerical / slavic (i.e. "barbarian"). The Barbarian ascendant is almost a must, I think, to differentiate it from the many other local variants which developed based on clergy, but in a less "tribal" context.
Let me know if you can mod the changes on religions (which province which god and modifiers for the new religion) or would like me to do them.
- avoid anachronisms: we should not apply contemporary concepts to this era, but try to use indigenous concepts which were known and used at that time. For all the creativity in Lux Invicta, it is not hard to replace the mental framework of LI in the late antiquity's mental framework. What I mean is that Vanilla, for example, never mentions "nationalism" or "secularism" as it has nothing to do with categories used by even the most enlightened Medieval thinkers. So i would avoid all wording such as "legal standing of women" / "equal" / "discriminative".
- avoid developmentalism: for State-building, the crown laws are clearly so. That is OK, as we can witness a progressive strengthening of the States during this era. But I don't think we should model a progressive emancipation of women through progressively increasing freedom / equality for them. Rather, we can imagine different States which co-exist based on the underlying civilizations.
- keep it limited: as someone said, there is no debate that until very recently (and even...), the world did not leave much role to women in the public sphere. Whatever mechanic is modeled, it should be kept light-handed to avoid a multiplication of women with high responsibilities... and I find it hard to see institutionalized matriarchal systems of the scale of even a single CK2 province (you have famous examples at the scale of a valley with low political integration... that's about it. That would be a barony in CK2 at most)
Now this being said, I agree that we can imagine a system where the "roles" for women (avoiding the developmentalist anachronistic wording) can vary based on political developments, in a clear framework imposed by religions (approached here as civilizations). Using your proposed system, it could look like something like this:
- each religion offers the possibility to switch between only two "steps", one more "liberal" than the other.
- so in practice, as you define 4 steps, there would be three types of religions: those with steps 1-2 accessible, those with steps 2-3 accessible, those with steps 3-4 accessible. Let's call them categories A, B and C
(1 = "Nonexistent" / 2 = "Minimal " / 3 = "Discriminative " / 4 = "Equal")
- Whatever the category, the more conservative level would be the "traditional" one (patriarchy being a tradition of pre-modern mankind...); the other one requiring a special effort, and having the chance to revert back to "traditional" if some key conditions are not fulfilled any more
- Whatever the category, there should be some prestige and general opinion malus for going to the more liberal one, if not for realism, at least for balance (you are giving yourself, the player, so many more possibilities... we don't want this to be the obvious best choice, on the contrary, it should be quite context specific)
Now my suggestions for the categories (in parenthesis are the in-game religious groups)
A: Abrahimic (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Mandean, Yazdanist, Manichean, Indo-Hellen, Zalmoxian), Graeco-Roman (Classical Graeco-Roman, Sol, Mithraicist and Neoplatonic) and Oriental (Zoroastrian, Buddhist)
B: Tribal (Germanic, Tengri, Celtic, Slavic, Baltic, Finnish, Pagan)
C: Archaic (Luwian, Canaanite, Arabo-Sabean, Berber)
Note: the latest category sees historical warrior-queens fighting the rise of the relatively more patriarchal Islam. Hence my inspiration in previous posts. So I think being at war with an Islamic realm, or with any religion of the category A for that matter, could be a trigger enabling category "C" realms switching to the more "liberal" system of warrior queens at a reduced cost, even at a prestige boost!
Well my focus was on the information the Messiah gave us, thanks to your fruitful debate...Heh, see you're zooming my discussion with Shay
Yep. Since we don't have only Slavs in this area, but also Avars, etc. ... the "Slavic" area is also an approximation...
Shaytana's words on this were that it was an overkill due to the fact that he will get culturally assimilated anyway... but he was not really opposed to it, just giving it low priority in his grand scheme of things... of course our scheme of things is smaller so why not...
Why not - I'll let this one to Richvh, since it is unrelated to the kinds of files generally related to SELIN...
Well, Shaytana did say that this area was a place-holder. He also said that the whole area was under heavy influence of Sol, which meant that he wanted to increase the outreach of Hors. In any way, there is room for improvement in this area. Beside that, I am in no position to really discuss the concrete suggestions. So if they are well-researched and done with care, as seems to be the case, let's integrate them, I think. Reading again the short explanations provided on the area in the first page (5th post I think) can help...
As for the religion, the default for Christianity is clerical, and I think it fits quite well the context you are describing where evangelist priests went on conversion missions on their own initiatives, resulting in a semi-autonomous clergy. So it could be Christian / local / clerical / slavic (i.e. "barbarian"). The Barbarian ascendant is almost a must, I think, to differentiate it from the many other local variants which developed based on clergy, but in a less "tribal" context.
Let me know if you can mod the changes on religions (which province which god and modifiers for the new religion) or would like me to do them.
The rationale for it is that "converting" a province is not a white or black process: a province does not wake up one morning suddenly praying in a totally different way, and well, since religions actually represent civilizations as much as spiritualities, being totally different. So the modifier represents the chaotic changes that lead to such a drastic transformation. Now, any else thinking the religious conversion modifier should be tuned down? I debated it with Shaytana when I implemented it, but let's balance it further. I don't think it is too severe as it is now, but let me know...
Well, I think there are several things we should be careful with that:
- avoid anachronisms: we should not apply contemporary concepts to this era, but try to use indigenous concepts which were known and used at that time. For all the creativity in Lux Invicta, it is not hard to replace the mental framework of LI in the late antiquity's mental framework. What I mean is that Vanilla, for example, never mentions "nationalism" or "secularism" as it has nothing to do with categories used by even the most enlightened Medieval thinkers. So i would avoid all wording such as "legal standing of women" / "equal" / "discriminative".
- avoid developmentalism: for State-building, the crown laws are clearly so. That is OK, as we can witness a progressive strengthening of the States during this era. But I don't think we should model a progressive emancipation of women through progressively increasing freedom / equality for them. Rather, we can imagine different States which co-exist based on the underlying civilizations.
- keep it limited: as someone said, there is no debate that until very recently (and even...), the world did not leave much role to women in the public sphere. Whatever mechanic is modeled, it should be kept light-handed to avoid a multiplication of women with high responsibilities... and I find it hard to see institutionalized matriarchal systems of the scale of even a single CK2 province (you have famous examples at the scale of a valley with low political integration... that's about it. That would be a barony in CK2 at most)
Now this being said, I agree that we can imagine a system where the "roles" for women (avoiding the developmentalist anachronistic wording) can vary based on political developments, in a clear framework imposed by religions (approached here as civilizations). Using your proposed system, it could look like something like this:
- each religion offers the possibility to switch between only two "steps", one more "liberal" than the other.
- so in practice, as you define 4 steps, there would be three types of religions: those with steps 1-2 accessible, those with steps 2-3 accessible, those with steps 3-4 accessible. Let's call them categories A, B and C
(1 = "Nonexistent" / 2 = "Minimal " / 3 = "Discriminative " / 4 = "Equal")
- Whatever the category, the more conservative level would be the "traditional" one (patriarchy being a tradition of pre-modern mankind...); the other one requiring a special effort, and having the chance to revert back to "traditional" if some key conditions are not fulfilled any more
- Whatever the category, there should be some prestige and general opinion malus for going to the more liberal one, if not for realism, at least for balance (you are giving yourself, the player, so many more possibilities... we don't want this to be the obvious best choice, on the contrary, it should be quite context specific)
Now my suggestions for the categories (in parenthesis are the in-game religious groups)
A: Abrahimic (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Mandean, Yazdanist, Manichean, Indo-Hellen, Zalmoxian), Graeco-Roman (Classical Graeco-Roman, Sol, Mithraicist and Neoplatonic) and Oriental (Zoroastrian, Buddhist)
B: Tribal (Germanic, Tengri, Celtic, Slavic, Baltic, Finnish, Pagan)
C: Archaic (Luwian, Canaanite, Arabo-Sabean, Berber)
Note: the latest category sees historical warrior-queens fighting the rise of the relatively more patriarchal Islam. Hence my inspiration in previous posts. So I think being at war with an Islamic realm, or with any religion of the category A for that matter, could be a trigger enabling category "C" realms switching to the more "liberal" system of warrior queens at a reduced cost, even at a prestige boost!
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Well, as far as I know, "Velikiy Knyaz" is not just something that we use today. They actually used this title in the middle ages, according to historical documents. Also, according to historical documents, smaller pieces of land that were granted to junior sons of big rulers in Rus were actually called "udel", so calling a ruler of such a smaller piece of land "Udelny knyaz" is sensible and not really unhistorical. And indeed "Udelnoe Knyazhestvo" is lower than just "Knyazhestvo".
I indeed think that splitting the localization would be the best solution.
Gostomysl was the legendary Novgorodian elder who decided to invite Rurik, so about that name I'm fairly sure. Mestyatka also comes from a 13th century birch bark manuscript unearthed in Novgorod. Peresvet is the name of a 14th century historical character, participant of the Battle of Kulikovo; it's constructed from "svet"=light and a rather common russian prefix "pere".
I'm not sure about Zvonimir ("zvonit'"=ring (the bell), "mir"=world in Russian); I also couldn't yet find references to documents supporting "Kriv" ("krivoy"=crooked), "Lesyar" ("les"=wood) and "Ostromir" ("ostry"=sharp, "mir"=world), but they sound fine to me.
By the way, in that pastebin link that I mentioned I also corrected some other things, like "chancellor"="dyak", "steward"="tiun" and so on. Let me repost it here for convenience:
Code:
#CODE;ENGLISH;FRENCH;GERMAN;;SPANISH;;;;;;;;;x
** RUSSIAN **;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
emperor_russian;Tsar;Tsar;Tsar;;Tsar;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_female_russian;Tsaritsa;Tsaritsa;Tsaritsa;;Tsaritsa;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_ruler_consort_russian;Velikiy Knyaz;Velikiy Knyaz;Velikiy Knyaz;;Velikiy Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_ruler_consort_female_russian;Tsaritsa;Tsaritsa;Tsaritsa;;Tsaritsa;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_queen_mother_female_russian;Tsarya Mat';Tsarya Mat';Tsarya Mat';;Tsarya Mat';;;;;;;;;x
city_emperor_russian;Gran-Prince;Gran-Prince;Gran-Prince;;Gran-Prince;;;;;;;;;x
empire_of_russian;Tsarstvo;Tsarstvo;Tsarstvo;;Tsarstvo;;;;;;;;;x
king_russian;Velikiy Knyaz;Velikiy Knyaz;Velikiy Knyaz;;Velikiy Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
king_female_russian;Velikaya Knyaginya;Velikaya Knyaginya;Velikaya Knyaginya;;Velikaya Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
title_regent_russian;Regent;Regent;Regent;;Regent;;;;;;;;;x
title_ruler_consort_russian;Knyaz;Knyaz;Knyaz;;Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
title_ruler_consort_female_russian;Velikaya Knyaginya;Velikaya Knyaginya;Velikaya Knyaginya;;Velikaya Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
title_queen_mother_russian;Knyazhya Mat';Knyazhya Mat';Knyazhya Mat';;Knyazhya Mat';;;;;;;;;x
title_prince_russian;Knyazich;Knyazich;Knyazich;;Knyazich;;;;;;;;;x
title_prince_female_russian;Knyazhna;Knyazhna;Knyazhna;;Knyazhna;;;;;;;;;x
city_king_russian;Verhovny Posadnik;Verhovny Posadnik;Verhovny Posadnik;;Verhovny Posadnik;;;;;;;;;x
kingdom_of_russian;Velikoe Knyazhestvo;Velikoe Knyazhestvo;Velikoe Knyazhestvo;;Velikoe Knyazhestvo;;;;;;;;;x
duke_russian;Knyaz;Knyaz;Knyaz;;Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
duke_female_russian;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;;Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
duke_title_ruler_consort_russian;Knyaz;Knyaz;Knyaz;;Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
duke_title_ruler_consort_female_russian;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;;Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
city_duke_russian;Velikiy Posadnik;Velikiy Posadnik;Velikiy Posadnik;;Velikiy Posadnik;;;;;;;;;x
duchy_of_russian;Knyazhestvo;Knyazhestvo;Knyazhestvo;;Knyazhestvo;;;;;;;;;x
count_russian;Udelny Knyaz;Udelny Knyaz;Udelny Knyaz;;Udelny Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
count_female_russian;Udelnaya Knyaginya;Udelnaya Knyaginya;Udelnaya Knyaginya;;Udelnaya Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
county_of_russian;Udelnoe Knyazhestvo;Udelnoe Knyazhestvo;Udelnoe Knyazhestvo;;Udelnoe Knyazhestvo;;;;;;;;;x
count_title_ruler_consort_russian;Knyaz;Knyaz;Knyaz;;Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
count_title_ruler_consort_female_russian;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;;Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
city_count_russian;Posadnik;Posadnik;Posadnik;;Posadnik;;;;;;;;;x
baron_russian;Boyarin;Boyarin;Boyarin;;Boyarin;;;;;;;;;x
baron_female_russian;Boyarynya;Boyarynya;Boyarynya;;Boyarynya;;;;;;;;;x
baron_title_ruler_consort_russian;Boyarin;Boyarin;Boyarin;;Boyarin;;;;;;;;;x
baron_title_ruler_consort_female_russian;Boyarynya;Boyarynya;Boyarynya;;Boyarynya;;;;;;;;;x
barony_of_russian;Volost;Volost;Volost;;Volost;;;;;;;;;x
city_baron_russian;Starosta;Starosta;Starosta;;Starosta;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_king_christian_russian;Imperator-Episkop;Imperator-Episkop;Imperator-Episkop;;Imperator-Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_king_catholic_russian;Tsar-Episkop;Tsar-Episkop;Tsar-Episkop;;Tsar-Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_king_orthodox_russian;Tsar-Episkop;Tsar-Episkop;Tsar-Episkop;;Tsar-Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_duke_catholic_russian;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_duke_orthodox_russian;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_count_catholic_russian;Tsarevich-Episkop;Tsarevich-Episkop;Tsarevich-Episkop;;Tsarevich-Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_count_orthodox_russian;Episkop;Episkop;Episkop;;Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_baron_christian_russian;Arkhiyerey;Arkhiyerey;Arkhiyerey;;Arkhiyerey;;;;;;;;;x
city_empire_of_russian;Velikaya Respublika;Velikaya Respublika;Velikaya Respublika;;Velikaya Respublika;;;;;;;;;x
city_kingdom_of_russian;Velikaya Respublika;Velikaya Respublika;Velikaya Respublika;;Velikaya Respublika;;;;;;;;;x
city_duchy_of_russian;Respublika;Respublika;Respublika;;Respublika;;;;;;;;;x
city_county_of_russian;Svobodnyi Gorod;Svobodnyi? Gorod;Svobodnyi? Gorod;;Svobodnyi? Gorod;;;;;;;;;x
city_barony_of_russian;Gorod;Gorod;Gorod;;Gorod;;;;;;;;;x
temple_barony_of_russian;Kapishche;Kapishche;Kapishche;;Kapishche;;;;;;;;;x
temple_baron_russian;Volhv;Volhv;Volhv;;Volhv;;;;;;;;;x
temple_count_russian;Velikiy Volhv;Velikiy Volhv;Velikiy Volhv;;Velikiy Volhv;;;;;;;;;x
temple_duke_russian;Verhovny Volhv;Verhovny Volhv;Verhovny Volhv;;Verhovny Volhv;;;;;;;;;x
job_chancellor_russian;Dyak;Dyak;Dyak;;Dyak;;;;;;;;;x
job_marshal_russian;Voyevoda;Voyevoda;Voyevoda;;Voyevoda;;;;;;;;;x
job_spymaster_russian;Tayny Sovetnik;Tayny Sovetnik;Tayny Sovetnik;;Tayny Sovetnik;;;;;;;;;x
job_treasurer_russian;Tiun;Tiun;Tiun;;Tiun;;;;;;;;;x
job_spiritual_russian;Vedun;Vedun;Vedun;;Vedun;;;;;;;;;x
job_spiritual_christian_russian;Duhovnik;Duhovnik;Duhovnik;;Duhovnik;;;;;;;;;x
job_viceroy_russian;Vitse-Korol;Vitse-Korol?;Vitse-Korol?;;Vitse-Korol?;;;;;;;;;x
#;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
** KOMI **;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
emperor_komi;Tsar;Tsar;Tsar;;Tsar;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_female_komi;Tsaritsa;Tsaritsa;Tsaritsa;;Tsaritsa;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_ruler_consort_komi;Velikiy Knyaz;Velikiy Knyaz;Velikiy Knyaz;;Velikiy Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_ruler_consort_female_komi;Tsaritsa;Tsaritsa;Tsaritsa;;Tsaritsa;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_title_queen_mother_female_komi;Tsarya Mat';Tsarya Mat';Tsarya Mat';;Tsarya Mat';;;;;;;;;x
city_emperor_komi;Gran-Prince;Gran-Prince;Gran-Prince;;Gran-Prince;;;;;;;;;x
empire_of_komi;Tsarstvo;Tsarstvo;Tsarstvo;;Tsarstvo;;;;;;;;;x
king_komi;Velikiy Knyaz;Velikiy Knyaz;Velikiy Knyaz;;Velikiy Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
king_female_komi;Velikaya Knyaginya;Velikaya Knyaginya;Velikaya Knyaginya;;Velikaya Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
title_regent_komi;Regent;Regent;Regent;;Regent;;;;;;;;;x
title_ruler_consort_komi;Knyaz;Knyaz;Knyaz;;Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
title_ruler_consort_female_komi;Velikaya Knyaginya;Velikaya Knyaginya;Velikaya Knyaginya;;Velikaya Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
title_queen_mother_komi;Knyazhya Mat';Knyazhya Mat';Knyazhya Mat';;Knyazhya Mat';;;;;;;;;x
title_prince_komi;Knyazich;Knyazich;Knyazich;;Knyazich;;;;;;;;;x
title_prince_female_komi;Knyazhna;Knyazhna;Knyazhna;;Knyazhna;;;;;;;;;x
city_king_komi;Verhovny Posadnik;Verhovny Posadnik;Verhovny Posadnik;;Verhovny Posadnik;;;;;;;;;x
kingdom_of_komi;Velikoe Knyazhestvo;Velikoe Knyazhestvo;Velikoe Knyazhestvo;;Velikoe Knyazhestvo;;;;;;;;;x
duke_komi;Knyaz;Knyaz;Knyaz;;Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
duke_female_komi;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;;Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
duke_title_ruler_consort_komi;Knyaz;Knyaz;Knyaz;;Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
duke_title_ruler_consort_female_komi;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;;Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
city_duke_komi;Velikiy Posadnik;Velikiy Posadnik;Velikiy Posadnik;;Velikiy Posadnik;;;;;;;;;x
duchy_of_komi;Knyazhestvo;Knyazhestvo;Knyazhestvo;;Knyazhestvo;;;;;;;;;x
count_komi;Udelny Knyaz;Udelny Knyaz;Udelny Knyaz;;Udelny Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
count_female_komi;Udelnaya Knyaginya;Udelnaya Knyaginya;Udelnaya Knyaginya;;Udelnaya Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
county_of_komi;Udelnoe Knyazhestvo;Udelnoe Knyazhestvo;Udelnoe Knyazhestvo;;Udelnoe Knyazhestvo;;;;;;;;;x
count_title_ruler_consort_komi;Knyaz;Knyaz;Knyaz;;Knyaz;;;;;;;;;x
count_title_ruler_consort_female_komi;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;Knyaginya;;Knyaginya;;;;;;;;;x
city_count_komi;Posadnik;Posadnik;Posadnik;;Posadnik;;;;;;;;;x
baron_komi;Boyarin;Boyarin;Boyarin;;Boyarin;;;;;;;;;x
baron_female_komi;Boyarynya;Boyarynya;Boyarynya;;Boyarynya;;;;;;;;;x
baron_title_ruler_consort_komi;Boyarin;Boyarin;Boyarin;;Boyarin;;;;;;;;;x
baron_title_ruler_consort_female_komi;Boyarynya;Boyarynya;Boyarynya;;Boyarynya;;;;;;;;;x
barony_of_komi;Volost;Volost;Volost;;Volost;;;;;;;;;x
city_baron_komi;Starosta;Starosta;Starosta;;Starosta;;;;;;;;;x
emperor_king_christian_komi;Imperator-Episkop;Imperator-Episkop;Imperator-Episkop;;Imperator-Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_king_catholic_komi;Tsar-Episkop;Tsar-Episkop;Tsar-Episkop;;Tsar-Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_king_orthodox_komi;Tsar-Episkop;Tsar-Episkop;Tsar-Episkop;;Tsar-Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_duke_catholic_komi;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_duke_orthodox_komi;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;;Tsarevich-Arkhiepiskop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_count_catholic_komi;Tsarevich-Episkop;Tsarevich-Episkop;Tsarevich-Episkop;;Tsarevich-Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_count_orthodox_komi;Episkop;Episkop;Episkop;;Episkop;;;;;;;;;x
temple_baron_christian_komi;Arkhiyerey;Arkhiyerey;Arkhiyerey;;Arkhiyerey;;;;;;;;;x
city_empire_of_komi;Velikaya Respublika;Velikaya Respublika;Velikaya Respublika;;Velikaya Respublika;;;;;;;;;x
city_kingdom_of_komi;Velikaya Respublika;Velikaya Respublika;Velikaya Respublika;;Velikaya Respublika;;;;;;;;;x
city_duchy_of_komi;Respublika;Respublika;Respublika;;Respublika;;;;;;;;;x
city_county_of_komi;Svobodnyi Gorod;Svobodnyi? Gorod;Svobodnyi? Gorod;;Svobodnyi? Gorod;;;;;;;;;x
city_barony_of_komi;Gorod;Gorod;Gorod;;Gorod;;;;;;;;;x
temple_barony_of_komi;Kapishche;Kapishche;Kapishche;;Kapishche;;;;;;;;;x
temple_baron_komi;Volhv;Volhv;Volhv;;Volhv;;;;;;;;;x
temple_count_komi;Velikiy Volhv;Velikiy Volhv;Velikiy Volhv;;Velikiy Volhv;;;;;;;;;x
temple_duke_komi;Verhovny Volhv;Verhovny Volhv;Verhovny Volhv;;Verhovny Volhv;;;;;;;;;x
job_chancellor_komi;Dyak;Dyak;Dyak;;Dyak;;;;;;;;;x
job_marshal_komi;Voyevoda;Voyevoda;Voyevoda;;Voyevoda;;;;;;;;;x
job_spymaster_komi;Tayny Sovetnik;Tayny Sovetnik;Tayny Sovetnik;;Tayny Sovetnik;;;;;;;;;x
job_treasurer_komi;Tiun;Tiun;Tiun;;Tiun;;;;;;;;;x
job_spiritual_komi;Vedun;Vedun;Vedun;;Vedun;;;;;;;;;x
job_spiritual_christian_komi;Duhovnik;Duhovnik;Duhovnik;;Duhovnik;;;;;;;;;x
job_viceroy_komi;Vitse-Korol;Vitse-Korol?;Vitse-Korol?;;Vitse-Korol?;;;;;;;;;x
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Yes, it started to function as official, when it was needed to build some hierarchy system. And of course was taken later by Lithuanians, in more latinized form of Grand Duke. But it started from "equal above equals" like I would call that.
And I found definition of the term "yдельное княжество" ("udzielne księstwo" in Polish) - and there are 2 meanings. First one is more popular in Russian literature, and means duchies granted to sons or other family members by senior ruler, so feudal relation senior-vassal was kept. And second, that I knew, means sovereign duchy, independent.
Ok, it seems I will have to work on it, then.
Ok, Gostomysl is also mentioned as name of legendary duke of Bohemia. While Zvonimir was second name of Croatian king Dmitar Zvonimir, and is still used there.
I know how Slavic names are built, and the meaning of each segments. I've just never seen using "svet" as a suffix - it's meaning was rather placing it as a prefix, more important part of the name. "Ostry" was never seen by me in usage as a name, though, just like "Les". "Krivoy" might be, as it was used as a part of few names.
Pozvizd I've found as a name and used often in former Yugoslavia by cities.
Other names I didn't mention will check later. I actually asked if you researched it about their usage that time in Russia only. But I see the answer is yes, so there will be no problem. Don't take is as offence, I just went cautious after seeing Zvonimir...
IMHO we should avoid using words like "baron" or everything including the world "tsar" when it comes to Russian feudal ladder. Wikipedia lists the Old Russian variant of word boyar to be "bylya". This comes from Bulgarian title "boila", which in turn has (most likely) Turkish roots. Assuming the Bulgars of LI timeline used the same route of migration, I think word "boyar" or "bylya" may well suit the baron-tier of Russian feudal ladder. At least far better than "dvoryanin" (which implies the existance of "dvor" - the court) or anything contining "tsar" (which in turn comes from the imperial system). Simmilarly, everything derived from German "ritter" (like Russian "rytsar'" or Polish "rycerz") should be avoided.
The udelnyi knyaz' - knyaz' - velikiy knyaz' ladder for counts-dukes-kings seems to be fine IMHO, as long as something is done to prevent Russian "kings" from wearing anything crown-like. Imperial-tier title should depend on how exactly the Roman influence affected Russia. "Tsar" shares a common root with Polish "cesarz" and Latin "caesar". As far as I remember, Imperium Romanum uses the title "imperator", while the Hellenic culture (represented by Bosphorian Cimmeria) uses the title "basileos". Greek words entered OTL Russian with several distinctive transformations, the most visible one being the b->v one; thus Greek Basil became Russian Vasiliy. So, I'd opt for either adapting the Roman title, or creating a new version of the Greek one.
As of Slavic patrynomics; they already look weird in Russian, with freaky creations like Nikitaovich or Alexeiovich. The problem is, the Slavic languages use a complex system of flexation when it comes to names, combined with Slavic names ending in various different ways. Correct patrynomics from above should be Nikitych and Alexeievich, for example. Same goes for Polish - names like Jakub (which, BTW, should be spelled Jakób - new spelling was introduced in early XX century; compare with German Jakob or Russian Yakov) or Mieszko require completely different suffixes to form a patrynomic (Jakubiec and Mieszkowic, respectively). I once tried to enable Polish patrynomics - and it failed utterly. And it gets worse if you want to introduce female patrynomics as well.
Finally, as of differences between 10th century Slavic peoples; Old Church Slavonic was understandable for Russians, while Russian was understandable for Polish (Nestor's Primary Chronicle mentions kievian prince taunting Bolesław the Brave from across the Bug - which IMHO implies quite a bit of intelligibility. Furthermore, I believe cultural differences between Slavic peoples were mostly caused by external influence, rather than some kind of evolutional drift - and without the Slavic peoples being torn apart by religion (catholics vs orthodoxy) and foreign influence (Czech being clients to the Holy Roman Emperor vs independent Polish), differences would be much smaller than OTL. Of course, I'm not preaching for a unified Slavic culture or anything like that - I'm totally satisfied with having an option to create a unified western Slavic empire. Just don't spread the hate.
Localisation should be separate for each Slavic culture, IMHO - but some simmilarities should be preserved. For example, there's little reason for the Polish to have the world "król" (king) in LI timeline - since LI features a much "smaller" Charlemagne (or, should I say, Charlepetite?), which would, IMHO, lead to the western Slavs developing another name for king-tier titles. Polish translation of velikoe knyazhestvo would be "wielkie księstwo", with "wielki książę" in charge - such title is used in Polish historiography to describe people like Vytautas the Great of Lithuania or rulers of 11th century Kiev. Baronies are more complicated - since Polish never had any Bulgarian influence, the word "bojar" is merely a Russian loanword, never used to describe Polish nobility. Sadly, I can't really think of a suitable equivalent - "starosta" (literally "elder") might be used, but as far as I know, it's a Czech loanword, brought in early 14th century by Czech Premyslid monarchs. Of course, LI timeline might have resulted in cultural diffusion between the Slavs proceeding in a completely different way - which would make "starosta" a plausible solution to use.
EDIT: Well, got ninja'd by Tsar Monarchist... Oh well, sorry if you decide this wall of text to be tl;dr ^^'
The udelnyi knyaz' - knyaz' - velikiy knyaz' ladder for counts-dukes-kings seems to be fine IMHO, as long as something is done to prevent Russian "kings" from wearing anything crown-like. Imperial-tier title should depend on how exactly the Roman influence affected Russia. "Tsar" shares a common root with Polish "cesarz" and Latin "caesar". As far as I remember, Imperium Romanum uses the title "imperator", while the Hellenic culture (represented by Bosphorian Cimmeria) uses the title "basileos". Greek words entered OTL Russian with several distinctive transformations, the most visible one being the b->v one; thus Greek Basil became Russian Vasiliy. So, I'd opt for either adapting the Roman title, or creating a new version of the Greek one.
As of Slavic patrynomics; they already look weird in Russian, with freaky creations like Nikitaovich or Alexeiovich. The problem is, the Slavic languages use a complex system of flexation when it comes to names, combined with Slavic names ending in various different ways. Correct patrynomics from above should be Nikitych and Alexeievich, for example. Same goes for Polish - names like Jakub (which, BTW, should be spelled Jakób - new spelling was introduced in early XX century; compare with German Jakob or Russian Yakov) or Mieszko require completely different suffixes to form a patrynomic (Jakubiec and Mieszkowic, respectively). I once tried to enable Polish patrynomics - and it failed utterly. And it gets worse if you want to introduce female patrynomics as well.
Finally, as of differences between 10th century Slavic peoples; Old Church Slavonic was understandable for Russians, while Russian was understandable for Polish (Nestor's Primary Chronicle mentions kievian prince taunting Bolesław the Brave from across the Bug - which IMHO implies quite a bit of intelligibility.
Furthermore, I believe cultural differences between Slavic peoples were mostly caused by external influence, rather than some kind of evolutional drift - and without the Slavic peoples being torn apart by religion (catholics vs orthodoxy) and foreign influence (Czech being clients to the Holy Roman Emperor vs independent Polish), differences would be much smaller than OTL. Of course, I'm not preaching for a unified Slavic culture or anything like that - I'm totally satisfied with having an option to create a unified western Slavic empire. Just don't spread the hate. Localisation should be separate for each Slavic culture, IMHO - but some simmilarities should be preserved. For example, there's little reason for the Polish to have the world "król" (king) in LI timeline - since LI features a much "smaller" Charlemagne (or, should I say, Charlepetite?), which would, IMHO, lead to the western Slavs developing another name for king-tier titles. Polish translation of velikoe knyazhestvo would be "wielkie księstwo", with "wielki książę" in charge - such title is used in Polish historiography to describe people like Vytautas the Great of Lithuania or rulers of 11th century Kiev. Baronies are more complicated - since Polish never had any Bulgarian influence, the word "bojar" is merely a Russian loanword, never used to describe Polish nobility. Sadly, I can't really think of a suitable equivalent - "starosta" (literally "elder") might be used, but as far as I know, it's a Czech loanword, brought in early 14th century by Czech Premyslid monarchs. Of course, LI timeline might have resulted in cultural diffusion between the Slavs proceeding in a completely different way - which would make "starosta" a plausible solution to use.
EDIT: Well, got ninja'd by Tsar Monarchist... Oh well, sorry if you decide this wall of text to be tl;dr ^^'
No offence taken
My research was not exhaustive, however, so I'm not sure about some of these names.
By the way, please look at my updated previous post, regarding dyak, tiun and so on.
You may mean 7th post, where are screenshots from the map and explanations. But 5th post is also important, as there's a timeline with two of three lines about Slavs.
In the 7th post we don't have anything about territories in Central Europe. Rather about Russian area. And the timeline doesn't have much about the region and Slavic nations.
I would like to do it, but currently the problem for me is a huge lack of time. I'm already losing much time working on cultures file, and yet RL is calling for it's moment too. Will try, though. I'll tell if there will be too much problems with it.
While I want to ask you to add Slavic Christian by yourself, because I'd gone little scared when I've opened the matrix...
IMHO we should avoid using words like "baron" or everything including the world "tsar" when it comes to Russian feudal ladder. Wikipedia lists the Old Russian variant of word boyar to be "bylya". This comes from Bulgarian title "boila", which in turn has (most likely) Turkish roots. Assuming the Bulgars of LI timeline used the same route of migration, I think word "boyar" or "bylya" may well suit the baron-tier of Russian feudal ladder. At least far better than "dvoryanin" (which implies the existance of "dvor" - the court) or anything contining "tsar" (which in turn comes from the imperial system). Simmilarly, everything derived from German "ritter" (like Russian "rytsar'" or Polish "rycerz") should be avoided.
The udelnyi knyaz' - knyaz' - velikiy knyaz' ladder for counts-dukes-kings seems to be fine IMHO, as long as something is done to prevent Russian "kings" from wearing anything crown-like. Imperial-tier title should depend on how exactly the Roman influence affected Russia. "Tsar" shares a common root with Polish "cesarz" and Latin "caesar". As far as I remember, Imperium Romanum uses the title "imperator", while the Hellenic culture (represented by Bosphorian Cimmeria) uses the title "basileos". Greek words entered OTL Russian with several distinctive transformations, the most visible one being the b->v one; thus Greek Basil became Russian Vasiliy. So, I'd opt for either adapting the Roman title, or creating a new version of the Greek one.
As of Slavic patrynomics; they already look weird in Russian, with freaky creations like Nikitaovich or Alexeiovich. The problem is, the Slavic languages use a complex system of flexation when it comes to names, combined with Slavic names ending in various different ways. Correct patrynomics from above should be Nikitych and Alexeievich, for example. Same goes for Polish - names like Jakub (which, BTW, should be spelled Jakób - new spelling was introduced in early XX century; compare with German Jakob or Russian Yakov) or Mieszko require completely different suffixes to form a patrynomic (Jakubiec and Mieszkowic, respectively). I once tried to enable Polish patrynomics - and it failed utterly. And it gets worse if you want to introduce female patrynomics as well.
Finally, as of differences between 10th century Slavic peoples; Old Church Slavonic was understandable for Russians, while Russian was understandable for Polish (Nestor's Primary Chronicle mentions kievian prince taunting Bolesław the Brave from across the Bug - which IMHO implies quite a bit of intelligibility.
Localisation should be separate for each Slavic culture, IMHO - but some simmilarities should be preserved. For example, there's little reason for the Polish to have the world "król" (king) in LI timeline - since LI features a much "smaller" Charlemagne (or, should I say, Charlepetite?), which would, IMHO, lead to the western Slavs developing another name for king-tier titles. Polish translation of velikoe knyazhestvo would be "wielkie księstwo", with "wielki książę" in charge - such title is used in Polish historiography to describe people like Vytautas the Great of Lithuania or rulers of 11th century Kiev. Baronies are more complicated - since Polish never had any Bulgarian influence, the word "bojar" is merely a Russian loanword, never used to describe Polish nobility. Sadly, I can't really think of a suitable equivalent - "starosta" (literally "elder") might be used, but as far as I know, it's a Czech loanword, brought in early 14th century by Czech Premyslid monarchs. Of course, LI timeline might have resulted in cultural diffusion between the Slavs proceeding in a completely different way - which would make "starosta" a plausible solution to use.
EDIT: Well, got ninja'd by Tsar Monarchist... Oh well, sorry if you decide this wall of text to be tl;dr ^^'
Well, Russian Wikipedia says, that the word "boyarin"="боярин" comes from the ancient russian форм "бояринъ", which, in turn, originates from old Bolgarian "болꙗринъ"="bolarin"=noble. So I'd actually prefer barony holders to be called "boyarin".
Regarding imperial-level titles: title "Tsar" was adopted by John the Terrible in 1547 when he declared his imperialistic ambitions, and indeed it comes from "Caesar". In my opinion it's completely fine as a title for russian emperor in the game, since 1547 is not that much later from the game's timeline. Also, in Russia in 1547 it was still middle ages, so if some ruler before John the Terrible would have decided to have imperialistic ambitions, he would most likely have the same way of thinking and would have adopted the same title. Moreover, there are indications that people in Rus used this word "tsar" when referring to the Great Khan of the Golden Horde during the mongolian domination. This supports using this word as a title for emperor even more.
Glad that you support my "udelnoe knyazhestvo" proposition
Regarding patronimics: of course Nikitaovich or Alexeiovich look rather weird. However, if you read these words fast, they do not differ much from the correct ones. And to my russian ear they do not sound completely ridiculuos. So in my opinion, having even these flawed patronimics is still much better than not having them at all. Even in this flawed form they introduce the much needed russian flavor, imo.