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TheDarkMaster

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Gah, some of those new trait events are becoming a royal pain.

Here is an example: pay me 30 gold for a useless sword and the proud trait you already have, or gain either the humble or content traits. I'm at 900 prestige with the "Become exulted" ambition (the humble and content traits disallow this ambition), and paying 30 gold will put me into dept for 2 years, since this is early game as a duke.
 

Tsar Monarchist

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I just want to say I'm working on some features related to western Slavs. Of course there are dynasty placeholders, but that's not only I work on...

New religion
When we have "blank pages" in this timeline, I'd like to introduce history of Slavic Christianity. I've stated it once, but I'll do it again:
* In about 4th century Christians start to explore the most western Slavic states (White Croats, etc), but yet not many conversions. While of course, religion will be known and will exist in there.
* After great migration of tribes, especially Slavic ones, they settle borders of the Roman Empire. Shouldn't be strange to have Christian missions to them, and some bishopric for the purpose. Of course it would be before settling Serbs and Croats in Balkan region, so as we have strong position of Dacian and Sarmatian. That's why it needs to be some place near the border, but on the Slavic territory. So I'd like to see first Slavic bishopric in Ostrihom, and have it as their center of local Christian society.
* Because no schism yet, missions come from both western and eastern part of the empire. Some monk named Kyrillos (Cyril) created special alphabet for the liturgy, based somewhat on original Slavic letters and Greek (Glagolitza). After Serbian will move there will be prepared the new alphabet for them, more based on Greek (Cyrillic).
* When Samo tooks his reign, he takes persecutions on Christianity, as possible danger for him.
* Croats and Serbs are moving out to their new places, taking the rite with them, of course. Ostrihom lose it's importance because of Samonids, whilst the liturgy (and it's alphabet) give Slavs some culture boost (in western standards). Slavic Church still functioning, though.
* Mojmirids would be restorers of Great Moravia - and Slavic Christianity. That's how I'd like to see them. Ostrihom rises again. But of course we have Avar state in Pannonia, and incoming Magyars... Moravian state collapse (again), Ostrihom taken by Avars.
* Now, the situation in Christian group. Schism is close, Pope don't like the new liturgy, it's getting abandoned... at least for him. Slavic Christianity becomes a heresy, still highly influenced by Orthodox rite.
* Cyrillic spreading far than Serbia, changes in culture, etc.

The new religion would be:
Christian / local variation / (...) / (may be Barbarian ascendant)

About soul, it seems hard for me to decide, which one would be better for it. "State" I was looking at, but it doesn't fit well with proposed scenario (not much of rulers' support). But also "traditional" I thought, yet doesn't feel good enough. The last one would be "scholarly", which might be suitable. But if you want to say about it, I'll listen. But don't expect it to be "populist", "matrial" or "messianic" (unless it would be followed by Samonids... what I doubt because of Shaytana's vision prepared for them).

Who? Serbian for sure. Actually, all Slavic Orthodox should be. Croatian would be nice instead of Catholicism, but some political reasons stay on the way. And another state would be... Check below, or look for the hint from the history above ;)

God's Shift
Situation doesn't feel good with OTL beliefs in specific regions. That's why I'd like to "swing" ;)
- Rod - this god wasn't supported in Poland, it's more eastern god, actually. Might yet work with southern Slavs.
- Svarog - oh, yes, the Solar one. It's rather not only Solar deity we would speak about (Dazhbog would be either), but yet Numahr decided he should be the one, so... Tracking him we can found ourselves in Greater Poland (where he might stay), Pomerania (forget about Rodnovery), and Sorbs or Polabians (Schwerin - probably slavic Swarzyn, from Svarog of course).
- Dazhbog - the second Solar god. I might see him as another emanation of Sol Invictus influence in region, even better than Svarog, though. But to the point - doesn't feel the best choice for Moravia. Rather for Sorbs/Serbian and Croatian (and similar, like Bosnian or Slovene). And for Eastern Slavs (Mazovia or Vistula considered).
- Perun - one of the most popular gods. His cult was between all Slavic states. But as his supporters we could consider Polish tribes (Silesia, for example, after we take Rod from there, or Vistula might stay), and Kiev.
- Svetovid - the hardest one. When checking his seen cult, we should stay only in Polabian/Pomeranian region (Rugia was center of his believers). Hardly seen in Mazovia, methinks.

There are also other gods, like Radegast/Radogost and Svarozhic (Svarog's son). But we find them both too similar, also with Dazhbog. That's why they're discussed to be different names of the same deity. Of course it's not sure at all. Anyway, Svarozhic faith was centred in... Radogost village (sic! :rolleyes:), so seems suited for Polabians.

So let's go straight to the point, what I see is (my sure choices underlined):
* Polabian -> because Dazhbog should stay for Sorbs, then Svarog stay
* Sorbs -> Dazhbog, like stated above
* Pomerania -> Svetovid; Stettin should be given to Svetovid or Dazhbog I think, rather than Svarog
* Polans -> Svarog
* Silesia -> instead of Rod, might be Rodnovery or Perun (if so, then not in Vistula)
* Kuyavia -> hard to decide, Rod or Dazhbog maybe - for your consideration
* Vistula -> Perun as is, or can be Dazhbog (Solar rivalry with Polans? only if not in Mazovia)
* Bosnia -> Perun
* Slavonia -> maybe Svarog instead of Rodnovery? Not sure (Tvarog in Steiermark seems to come from his name, so it's close there)

Now, of course Nitra stay as is, I don't touch Veles cult.

Still Moravia left. As the matter of fact, I'd like to see it Slavic Christian. But if not, then for historical reason I'd rather take Perun or just Rodnovery instead.



EDIT: sorry, it's Kuyavia, not Mazovia... while I find it more proper.
 
Last edited:

richvh

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If you get an event like that that gives a trait you already have, could you screen shot and post it, or post the exact event text? I changed most of those so they wouldn't trigger if you had any of the traits they could give.
 

Tsar Monarchist

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Would y'all mind if I made a custom Saqaliba slavic culture, with Arabized slavic names like Bars (Boris) and Yarusalib (Jaroslav)... or would that go against Shaytana's wishes?

He wasn't excited when I suggested it... had more other things to do in his mind. Yet he didn't say 'no'.


But wasn't there problems with too much cultures in culture file?
 

richvh

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Spain is where he was going to work next when he pulled his disappearing act, so I wouldn't consider Spain finalized (that's where you'd put the Saqaliba culture, isn't it, around the Badajoz slavic ruler?)
 

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I have an idea regarding the new Female marshal crown law. To me, the law seems to unimportant compared to other crown and realm laws and thus a little incongruous... I mean that 90% of the time the idea itself wouldn't even have the smallest chance to present itself in medieval times - even in alternative timeline. An approach to mend this would be making this law more universal and connecting it with legal standing of women.

The grades of the law can be something like this:

- Nonexistent legal standing bars women from any council jobs (and from leading armies of course), and inheritance should be strictly agnatic.

- Minimal standing makes agnatic-cognatic succession possible, and females who are close relatives of the ruler (spouse, mother, sister or daughter) are allowed to be spymaster or steward. Also, there is a very small chance that a queen with exceptional martial skills and ambition may lead armies at a cost of major prestige and opinion hit.

- Discriminative standing adds a possibility for a woman related to the ruler and having high skills in martial or diplomacy to occupy a corresponding council chair, and relaxes requirement for warrior queens a bit. Spymaster and steward positions are free for women.

- Equal standing enables true cognatic succession as well as opens all council positions for women (except lord spiritual which is defined by a specific religion).

I'm not sure what should be the 5th tier - should we make a dominant standing for the sake of variety and try to somehow create a female-preference system, or it is better to further differentiate between discriminative and equal, adding fair standing between them, for example.

There are some other questions:

- what should be the name of this law? "Women's suffrage" and "women's rights" look a bit anachronistic to me, while "women's legal standing" is a bit too long...

- Definitely there should be a cap defined by religion - some religions allowing only nonexistent or minimal, while some other won't let ruler to go below discriminative, for instance. What will be the religious setup?

- Balancing, opinion modifiers, factions and so on...

Any comments will be appreciated. If there will be no opposition to this, I will try to code it myself, though I will not be against any help in this matter :)
 

richvh

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This is something Rednif and I have been discussing in PMs and has my endorsement.
 

unmerged(242259)

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Well, as a possible resource, I took some Slavic names common to South, West, and East Slavs and Arabized them:

Code:
	saqaliba = { 
		graphical_culture = muslimgfx  ## is there a graphical culture in Lux Invicta for European-skinned characters with Arabic clothing?
		
		color = { 0.5 0.2 0.1 }

		male_names = {
			Yarusalib Qazim Shansalib Benshisalib Baylahsalib Baylahuddin Sahbetusalib Yarupulaq Bayyusalib Barsalib Bars Layyubuddin 
			Makhtisalib Radim Baysalib Saqalibim Marsalib Dubarsalib Barun Sa'il Kakilah Bardak Qayla Uhaq Alibud Qabar Rus Tayyih 
			Salibuddin Layha Baylad Ujinun Dushan Bulaq Zidraq Jurun Maldun Palmun Jaffizuddin Muhammad Ali Jibril
		}
		female_names = {
			Baghdin Barina Zaybita Dubara Dushayna Yaguda Yarkha Yaseena Qaylina Layyubah Milah Milushiya Mirah Nadigha Nayida Radah 
			Salibah Snejinah Subiyna Sabittah Bira Bisillah Besayna Jiba Zalat Zurah
		}
		from_dynasty_prefix = "mn "
		
		male_patronym = "ibn "
		female_patronym = "bint "
		prefix = yes
		
		dynasty_title_names = yes
		founder_named_dynasties = yes

		modifier = default_culture_modifier
	}

Name matchups:
Yarusalib (Jaroslav)
Qazim (Kazhimir)
Shansalib (Stanislav)
Benshisalib (Vencislav)
Baylahsalib (Vladislav)
Baylahuddin (Vladimir)
Sahbetusalib (Svetoslav)
Yarupulaq (Jaropolk)
Bayyusalib (Vojslav)
Barsalib (Borislav)
Bars (Boris)
Layyubuddin (Ljubomir)
Makhtisalib (Mostislav)
Radim (Radomir)
Baysalib (Vseslav)
Saqalibim (Slavomir)
Marsalib (Miroslav)
Dubarsalib (Dobroslav)
Barun (Baran)
Sa'il (Silo)
Kakilah (Kakol)
Bardak (Bradak)
Qayla (Zhila)
Uhaq (Ukhach)
Alibud (Lopata)
Qabar (Zhaba)
Rus (Rus)
Tayyih (Tikh)
Salibuddin (Slavan)
Layha (Lekh)
Baylad (Vlad)
Ujinun (Ognen)
Dushan (Dushan)
Bulaq (Volk)
Zidraq (Zdravko)
Jurun (Goran)
Maldun (Mladen)
Palmun (Plamen)
Jaffizuddin (Zvezdan)
Muhammad (Muhammad)
Ali (Ali)
Jibril (Gabril)
------------------
Baghdin (Bogdana)
Barina (Brana)
Zaybita (Cveta)
Dubara (Dobra)
Dushayna (Dushana)
Yaguda (Jagoda)
Yarkha (Jarka)
Yaseena (Jasna)
Qaylina (Kalina)
Layyubah (Ljuba)
Milah (Mila)
Milushiya (Milusha)
Mirah (Mira)
Nadigha (Nadezhda)
Nayida (Nadia)
Radah (Rada)
Salibah (Slava)
Snejinah (Snezhana)
Subiyna (Sobena)
Sabittah (Sveta)
Bira (Vera)
Bisillah (Vesela)
Besayna (Vesna)
Jiba (Zhiva)
Zalat (Zlata)
Zurah (Zora)

If you want to use that as a base, copy it, modify it, whatever, go ahead.

Ataulf
 

richvh

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Can you add links to the name list (in the form Yarusalib_Jaroslav)?
 

unmerged(242259)

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Like this?

Code:
	saqaliba = { 
		graphical_culture = muslimgfx  ## is there a graphical culture in Lux Invicta for European-skinned characters with Arabic clothing?
		
		color = { 0.5 0.2 0.1 }

		male_names = {
			Yarusalib_Jaroslav Qazim_Casimir Shansalib_Stanislav Benshisalib_Wenceslaus Baylahsalib_Vladislav Baylahuddin_Vladimir 
			Sahbetusalib_Svetoslav Yarupulaq_Jaropolk Bayyusalib_Vojslav Barsalib_Borislav Bars_Boris Layyubuddin_Ljubomir Makhtisalib_Mostislav 
			Radim_Radomir Baysalib_Vseslav Saqalibim_Slavomir Marsalib_Miroslav Dubarsalib_Dobroslav Barun_Baran Sa'il_Silo Kakilah_Kakol 
			Bardak_Bradak Qayla_Zhila Uhaq_Ukhach Alibud_Lopata Qabar_Zhaba Rus_Rus Tayyih_Tikh Salibuddin_Slavan Layha_Lekh Baylad_Vlad 
			Ujinun_Ognen Dushan_Dushan Balkha_Volk Zidraq_Zdravko Jurun_Goran Maldun_Mladen Palmun_Plamen Jaffizuddin_Zvezdan Muhammad_Muhammad 
			Ali_Ali Jibril_Gabriel
		}
		female_names = {
			Baghdin_Bogdana Barina_Brana Zaybita_Cveta Dubara_Dobra Dushayna_Dushana Yaguda_Jagoda Yarkha_Jarka Yaseena_Jasna Qaylina_Kalina 
			Layyubah_Ljuba Milah_Mila Milushiya_Milusha Mirah_Mira Nadigha_Nadezhda Nayida_Nadia Radah_Rada Salibah_Slava Snejinah_Snezhana 
			Subiyna_Sobena Sabittah_Sveta Bira_Vera Bisillah_Vesela Besayna_Vesna Jiba_Zhiva Zalat_Zlata Zurah_Zora
		}
		from_dynasty_prefix = "mn "
		
		male_patronym = "ibn "
		female_patronym = "bint "
		prefix = yes
		
		dynasty_title_names = yes
		founder_named_dynasties = yes

		modifier = default_culture_modifier
	}
 

richvh

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Yes, thanks. Who should have this culture? Also, what culture group to put it in?
 

TheDarkMaster

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If you get an event like that that gives a trait you already have, could you screen shot and post it, or post the exact event text? I changed most of those so they wouldn't trigger if you had any of the traits they could give.
I'll keep that in mind while I'm playing from now on.


On a different subject, I've run into essentially a game breaking issue for Norse players due to heresy mechanics. Since heresies are designed to spread from province to province if you don't keep them in check by converting the populations away from them, if you have Ragnarok heresy provinces in your nation, your provinces can and will convert over neighboring provinces to the heresy while you're unable to do anything about it. Conversion to your own religion happens as a result of an event over time, so eventually you'll have provinces constantly pingpong between the two religions, causing the recent conversion modifier to be more or less constantly on your provinces.

Speaking of which, that modifier is really killer. Especially when heresies are brought into the mix. I do find it a bit strange that the negatives for having converted a province are actually much worse then if you'd simply left the province the same religion. A few points of revolt risk and slightly reduced tax and levies aren't really that big of a deal. The only reason you'd want to convert them is to avoid the recently conquered modifiers if you lose those provinces.
 

unmerged(242259)

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Abu-Bakr Saburid, Duke of Badajoz, and his auto-generated vassal in Caceres.

I'd suggest south_slavic, as Wikipedia states:
Ibrahim ibn Yaqub placed the people of "Saqalib" in the mountainous regions of Central Balkans, west of the Bulgarians and east from the "other Slavs" (Croats), thus in the Serb lands. The Saqalib had the reputation of being "the most courageous and violent".[2]

However it is up to you which Slavic group, exactly, you place it in to. You could even make it Andalusian, since it won't really exist outside of Hispania.
 

TheDarkMaster

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I have an idea regarding the new Female marshal crown law. To me, the law seems to unimportant compared to other crown and realm laws and thus a little incongruous... I mean that 90% of the time the idea itself wouldn't even have the smallest chance to present itself in medieval times - even in alternative timeline. An approach to mend this would be making this law more universal and connecting it with legal standing of women.

The grades of the law can be something like this:

- Nonexistent legal standing bars women from any council jobs (and from leading armies of course), and inheritance should be strictly agnatic.

- Minimal standing makes agnatic-cognatic succession possible, and females who are close relatives of the ruler (spouse, mother, sister or daughter) are allowed to be spymaster or steward. Also, there is a very small chance that a queen with exceptional martial skills and ambition may lead armies at a cost of major prestige and opinion hit.

- Discriminative standing adds a possibility for a woman related to the ruler and having high skills in martial or diplomacy to occupy a corresponding council chair, and relaxes requirement for warrior queens a bit. Spymaster and steward positions are free for women.

- Equal standing enables true cognatic succession as well as opens all council positions for women (except lord spiritual which is defined by a specific religion).

I'm not sure what should be the 5th tier - should we make a dominant standing for the sake of variety and try to somehow create a female-preference system, or it is better to further differentiate between discriminative and equal, adding fair standing between them, for example.

There are some other questions:

- what should be the name of this law? "Women's suffrage" and "women's rights" look a bit anachronistic to me, while "women's legal standing" is a bit too long...

- Definitely there should be a cap defined by religion - some religions allowing only nonexistent or minimal, while some other won't let ruler to go below discriminative, for instance. What will be the religious setup?

- Balancing, opinion modifiers, factions and so on...

Any comments will be appreciated. If there will be no opposition to this, I will try to code it myself, though I will not be against any help in this matter :)

Setting women as being straight up equal to males is rather nonsensical in the medieval era. Even in the pagan nations were they're given many more rights then in Abrahamic nations, their societies have a distinct breakdown of roles for the genders. If you are going to define some sort of law to change the way this works, you'll almost have to have it different for each of the religious groups.

If you do want to go ahead and implement this, I'd say that you should call this law "gender roles" and set the most basic one to be "traditional."
 

rednif tap

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Setting women as being straight up equal to males is rather nonsensical in the medieval era. Even in the pagan nations were they're given many more rights then in Abrahamic nations, their societies have a distinct breakdown of roles for the genders. If you are going to define some sort of law to change the way this works, you'll almost have to have it different for each of the religious groups.

If you do want to go ahead and implement this, I'd say that you should call this law "gender roles" and set the most basic one to be "traditional."

Thank you. Perhaps the "tradition" has many different meanings in Shaytana's universe (and many of them are other than what we believe to be a tradition in our mostly Christian society), but I do like your approach. It offers some space for different roles which are not necessarily sequential.

Speaking of sence in medieval times, I think there are at least some religions in the Lux Invicta kaleidoscope that would back up more liberal ideas. The most extreme implementations of this law should be available only for some religions, I just don't know which religions it should be :)

I would be happy if Numahr stated his opinion...
 

richvh

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I'll keep that in mind while I'm playing from now on.


On a different subject, I've run into essentially a game breaking issue for Norse players due to heresy mechanics. Since heresies are designed to spread from province to province if you don't keep them in check by converting the populations away from them, if you have Ragnarok heresy provinces in your nation, your provinces can and will convert over neighboring provinces to the heresy while you're unable to do anything about it. Conversion to your own religion happens as a result of an event over time, so eventually you'll have provinces constantly pingpong between the two religions, causing the recent conversion modifier to be more or less constantly on your provinces.

Speaking of which, that modifier is really killer. Especially when heresies are brought into the mix. I do find it a bit strange that the negatives for having converted a province are actually much worse then if you'd simply left the province the same religion. A few points of revolt risk and slightly reduced tax and levies aren't really that big of a deal. The only reason you'd want to convert them is to avoid the recently conquered modifiers if you lose those provinces.

The Norse Mod was never really meant to deal with heresies (it doesn't have any in Vanilla, and was included in Lux Invicta by request); I really don't know how to resolve that. Maybe make conversion a really low chance to happen for the Do Seid action in North Germanic culture provinces?
 

wogudwkd12

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hey what a nice mod. i was playing it with great interest then suddenly an idea stroke my head. what would it be like if there's a naked king event where you can go out naked believing the word cloth makers said getting trusting trait or a completely new trait with -50 prestige and -10 gold, or you can ignore the cloth makers for 10 prestige, or you can imprison and behead the cloth maker for cruel or wroth trait with 50 prestige and 10 gold.
 

TheDarkMaster

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The Norse Mod was never really meant to deal with heresies (it doesn't have any in Vanilla, and was included in Lux Invicta by request); I really don't know how to resolve that. Maybe make conversion a really low chance to happen for the Do Seid action in North Germanic culture provinces?
I don't think that will help too much, since the best way to counter heresy is to make a bunch of vassals and have them use all their chaplains to convert the provinces over as fast as possible. I don't know if the AI would properly handle that, and even then there is no guarantee this won't screw with things in other parts of the world if Norse manages to spread there.

Is it possible to change the heresy spread event to make it so that it doesn't apply to the Norse religion?

If not, I think the best solution would be an event that rapidly converts Norse or Norse heresy provinces over to your state religion if you're Norse or a Norse heresy. This switch should not apply the recent conversion modifier. Otherwise, I don't think the Norse religion can actually have a heresy. If it is going to be removed, could a fix event be released that force converts any characters and provinces that follow the heresy over to the original religion?