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MOD: Lowland and Lotharingia
- Thread starter Darrigan
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Cool! I appreciate an improved Lowlands.
Is modding provinces particularly different in CK2?
Is modding provinces particularly different in CK2?
Kind of, yes. There are more files involved than in EU3, for example.
Apart from the province-file, you also need to alter the title-file (says who was count of what and when) and the landed_titles.txt file. (Lists all titles in the game)
But, as any Pdox-game, it's not hard to mod.
Apart from the province-file, you also need to alter the title-file (says who was count of what and when) and the landed_titles.txt file. (Lists all titles in the game)
But, as any Pdox-game, it's not hard to mod.
Great looking mod! I especially like how you've added the other kingdoms to the de jure HRE.
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Looks great, although when Stavelot Malmedy is added, you could also have Antwerpen and Breda.
(The Lordship of Breda (later split in Breda and Bergen op Zoom) was a vassal of Brabant; although admittedly I'm from Western North Brabant). Especially the Luxembourg/Luxemburg & Liege/Luik/Lüttich-region is quite detailed.
Another suggestion is to split of the county of Berg from the Köln province. The CoA of Berg is similar to the CoA of Limburg, however it is langued azure and not or.
(The Lordship of Breda (later split in Breda and Bergen op Zoom) was a vassal of Brabant; although admittedly I'm from Western North Brabant). Especially the Luxembourg/Luxemburg & Liege/Luik/Lüttich-region is quite detailed. Another suggestion is to split of the county of Berg from the Köln province. The CoA of Berg is similar to the CoA of Limburg, however it is langued azure and not or.
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This mod definitely makes the area more detailed. But you're also making it more powerful, since each new county adds more holdings and thereby more tax and levies to the area...
That's true. I've tried to counter that by removing some holdings from certain provinces (but still keep them playable). Also, counties that were poorer or "less valuable" will indeed be less valuable at the start of the game. But some rich ruler could build up his powerbase. (La Roche starts with only one holding, f.e.)
An example of something I did: In the province of Oversticht, the prince-bishop of Utrecht had hard times making the local communities accept his authority (he basically did not have any influence in the area.) To represent this I made the holding in this province direct vassals of the emperor, instead of him.
Having more area's also means having more rulers. And more rulers mean more vassals. More vassals mean less authority for anyone who wants to control the region. (More people to keep happy.)
I strongly encourage any modder to implement this mod into a greater mod. (That way other area's would be expanded more, which would counterbalance the lowlands.) I am also willing to work on other area's, but unfortunatly my historical knowledge of other parts of Europe is limited.
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This will be an issue for every area, which will be improved. Although didn't provinces have a limit to the maximum amount of holdings? If so, then more provinces should mean less holdings in each province.
Maybe in larger mods, which aim to change the entire map, discussions might be needed, about which provinces are needed and which aren't needed.
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Looks great, although when Stavelot Malmedy is added, you could also have Antwerpen and Breda.
I have been doubting a long time wether I would add Stavelot or not. In the end the fact that Stavelot was an "Imperial Abbey", and this a direct vassal of the emperor was the reason I did implement it. (On later starting dates, the abbey actually is a direct vassal of the Emperor). If the Abbey was just a small vassal of Liege, I would not have implemented it.
I might throw Stavelot out in a later version, though.
Breda was a part of the Markgraafschap of Antwerpen (Added by Ansfried, last count of Toxandria). It is still represented as being the capital of the Markgraafschap. (Breda is a castle, Antwerpen is a city.) Also Breda was know as the "Baronie van Breda". You don't need Dutch as your mother tongue to know that means "Barony of Breda". And the way it is in the game now, represents it at its best.
The dukes of Lower Lorraine often, f.e. Gottfried at the earliest starting date, were also the "Markgraaf van Antwerpen". Hence the change from Breda to Antwerpen. They still are the Baron of Breda as well, though. (Breda = capital)
Indeed. This has been done. Some provinces have a reduced "holding limit".
As I've said in the description: I have chosen balance and gameplay over historical acuracy. (But history and reality are still important!)
I, personally live near the city of Antwerp, but I try to look at the regional history through neutral glasses. (It helps that my family originates from the region that once was the county of Loon - I actually downsized the county; the county is way too big in vanilla.)
Luxemburg is more detailed, because I think it is incorrect to represent the entire duchy of Luxemburg as one single county. There were multiple counties in the region. The largest of which were Chiny and La Roche. There also were the counties of Arlon and Durbuy, the "duchy" of Bouillon, and the region around Salm also had greater autonomy (but I'm not sure if it actually was a county). I've deliberatly left those counties out for reasons concerning gameplay and balance. I know the historical accuracy had to suffer, but well.. That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. (Godfried, Lord of Bouillon and later Duke of Lower Lorraine, would eventually be the first King of Jerusalem!)
Liege still is one county, but I have split off Stavelot because it was an Imperial Abbey; a direct vassal of the emperor. Since the "county" only hold two holdings (temples) it does not greatly affect the gameplay. (They do not tend to expand, can not be owned by the player, can not be owned by the "same" bishops for multiple "generations", and tend to be more loyal to the pope than to any actual feudal lord.)
1: As do I, I only added that information to be complete. In North Brabant we're proud of our Brabantine heritage though
; and I admit to have an interest in the history of the duchy of Brabant. In fact Western North Brabant historically was considered a part of the 'quarter' of Antwerpen in the duchy of Brabant, and not the 'quarter' of 's-Hertogenbosch, like eastern and middle North Brabant. Furthermore the 'original' lordship of Breda was later split in the barony of Breda and the marquisate of Bergen op Zoom.2: Splitting off the county of Berg from Köln would improve that part of the Rhineland in a similar way as adding those counties in the 'Luxembourg' region.
Finally something about the CoA, although I don't exactly like the CoA of Lower Lorraine (should be identical as to the CoA of Austria), but the CoA used for the duchy of Burgundy (Bourgogne) is actually the CoA of Arles...
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1: As do I, I only added that information to be complete. In North Brabant we're proud of our Brabantine heritage though
2: Splitting off the county of Berg from Köln would improve that part of the Rhineland in a similar way as adding those counties in the 'Luxembourg' region.
I might do that in a later version. I simply focused on what is - today - the Benelux custom union.
The CoA's of Lower Lorraine and Burgundy are the one's used in the vanilla version. I have not touched them. I do know the Austian-like one was used for Lower Lorraine as well, but I thought it was more something of a flag. I could be mistaken, though
(I know the dukes of Brabant used it in their personal CoA, and it is, today, used as the CoA of the city of Leuven.)As for Burgundy: You could be right. I have no idea at all
. I might change it in a later version, but then I wouldn't be limiting myself to the Low Lands anymore...EDIT: I misunderstood your post. I didn't see you were talking about the CoA of Lotharingia in the mod.
I have been looking for an appropriate one, but couldn't find any. (No CoA's were used in the days of Lothair.) I therefore created one, inspired by the 'German' eagle and the diagonal red line of Lorraine.
Yes, though it was very similar to German. The first written text which can be seen as 'Dutch' originates from the third quarter of the 11th century. That's about 10 years after the start of the game. But since it was so similar to German back then (and to a lesser degree, still is today) I have moved it to the same culture group as German.
You weren't mistaken, I was talking about Lower Lorraine, not Lotharingia .
Anyway the county of Berg did have connections with Limburg (hence the related CoA), Kleve, Gelre, Jülich, Luxemburg etc. So it would improve the representation of that region.
. Anyway the county of Berg did have connections with Limburg (hence the related CoA), Kleve, Gelre, Jülich, Luxemburg etc. So it would improve the representation of that region.
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As the person who wrote the original Lotharingia mod for Crusader Kings, thank you for this! It saved me the effort of doing it myself.
Compared to my original Kingdom, I would recommend adding Mainz and removing Munster and Kleeve. I based this on historical maps of Lotharingia which included the former and not the latter. Depending on how much research you did, you may be right and I may be wrong.
Compared to my original Kingdom, I would recommend adding Mainz and removing Munster and Kleeve. I based this on historical maps of Lotharingia which included the former and not the latter. Depending on how much research you did, you may be right and I may be wrong.
As the person who wrote the original Lotharingia mod for Crusader Kings, thank you for this! It saved me the effort of doing it myself.
Compared to my original Kingdom, I would recommend adding Mainz and removing Munster and Kleeve. I based this on historical maps of Lotharingia which included the former and not the latter. Depending on how much research you did, you may be right and I may be wrong.
I based myself on written accounts. I thought (ccould be wrong) the city of Köln was part of the kingdom. Since I didn't want to mess around with the German duchies too much, I simply added the entire duchy. I'll look into this, and maybe fix it
Also: I re-uploaded the file. Something must have been wrong with the previous upload. If there still are problems, let me know!
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