[MOD] Jewish Immersion

[damanamana]

You're great and this mod is great. A quick question:

8. Manicheans and the Han culture can no longer get the Jewish courtier event.

Why?

 

[Furuderikas]

If you wish to re-add a more realistic heresy for Judaism, Canaanite/Monolatrist may be an option.

 

[damanamana]

If you wish to re-add a more realistic heresy for Judaism, Canaanite/Monolatrist may be an option.

That's not terribly realistic. By the start date, Jews haven't been that for thousands of years.

Sadly (for the game) actual Jewish heresies besides the Karaites didn't appear until the EU4 timeframe.

 

[Mouthwash]

I typed up a very long reply but decided to trash it. I appreciate what you've done and the work you've put in so that we are better represented in this game. Consequently, I really don't want this thread to turn into a fight and begin to spoil something positive you've created.

I don't think this is spoiling the thread. I definitely think Samaritanism shouldn't be a heresy, and don't feel like the effort of creating a separate religion is worth it, since I'm trying to give others freedom to build on the mod. As for the historical dispute:

That said, I will leave it at this: I think you have your mind made up and for some reason have chosen to stop accepting help. This is where the saying 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' comes from. People assume they know more than they do, until they learn just how much they really don't know.

I didn't mean to give the impression I had my mind made up. It's possible my modern experience is making me believe this (I am a Jew of multiple ethnic backgrounds, but feel completely separate from Samaritans - and from what I understand they feel the same way).

But to be very clear, they a completely different historical narrative than we do, hold different locations to be holy, are generally believed not to be of authentic Israelite extraction by Jews, and reject the core of Jewish thought and lifestyle: Halakha. So we have history, soil, blood and religious law dividing us. Look at how deeply the Shia-Sunni schism is bound up with nationalism these days, and their disagreement was originally over leadership.

So while you have a good knowledge of history, it is clear that you're missing key nuances, such as how identity is constructed.

Identities are constructed in a myriad of ways, even in modern times (i.e. compare 'black' and 'white' people in North America to the religion-based sects of Lebanon). This isn't my first exposure to historians talking about nationality or ethnicity, and - I'm by no means claiming this applies to you - my impression is that they see things through a Western lens. So if we're talking about ethnoreligious groups, they'll tend to bring up the Huguenots or Eighty Years' War as examples rather than, say, Ottoman millets.

This is not intended to denigrate you or your profession. I'd still like to hear these arguments of yours (by PM, if you prefer).

Why?

Why should those groups have access to courtier events, which are otherwise restricted to the Abrahamic religions and Zoroastrianism? (Manichaeism is represented as a heresy of the latter, which is inaccurate.)

 

[Furuderikas]

That's not terribly realistic. By the start date, Jews haven't been that for thousands of years.

Sadly (for the game) actual Jewish heresies besides the Karaites didn't appear until the EU4 timeframe.

While I realise it is out of the time frame, and concede it perhaps isn't of use as a heresy (I was scraping the bottom of the barrel here for realistic ideas), I must correct you in that Monolatrism survived in some capacity among us Jews long after the Babylonian exile and until only a few hundred years BCE. In fact, the form of Judaism shown in the game, Rabbinic Judaism, emerged in the 6th century CE (500s) with the codification of the Babylonian Talmud.

 

[damanamana]

While I realise it is out of the time frame, and concede it perhaps isn't of use as a heresy (I was scraping the bottom of the barrel here for realistic ideas), I must correct you in that Monolatrism survived in some capacity among us Jews long after the Babylonian exile and until only a few hundred years BCE. In fact, the form of Judaism shown in the game, Rabbinic Judaism, emerged in the 6th century CE (500s) with the codification of the Babylonian Talmud.

What are you talking about? Monolatrism died out during (and because of) the Babylonian Captivity. The Deuteronomist books of Amos and Isaiah, and the Priestly book of Jeremiah, are all staunchly monotheistic. 2nd Temple Judaism was fiercely monotheistic.

 

[Mouthwash]

Holy Fury is released! I'm recovering from surgery, but hopefully I'll be home by tomorrow and start work on the update.

 

[motiff]

, made many names restricted by religion (no more Zoroastrians being named after Biblical figures

How does one do this? I'm also annoyed by non-muslim Persians having names like "Mohammed" and would like to restrict this to only Persian Muslims.

 

[damanamana]

How does one do this? I'm also annoyed by non-muslim Persians having names like "Mohammed" and would like to restrict this to only Persian Muslims.

Why would you want to restrict the name "Mohammed" to only Persian Muslims?
Anyway, you can't restrict names to specific religion-culture combinations. You can specify culture-specific names in the cultures file and religion-specific names in the religions file.

 

[damanamana]

Holy Fury is released! I'm recovering from surgery, but hopefully I'll be home by tomorrow and start work on the update.

Hooray! Do you have any ideas for additional Holy Fury content?
FYI, I'm going to remove the culture and holy site changes to my mod so it's compatible with yours. And I'm going to change the "Restored Israel" bloodline & mod in an entirely new one (the Aharonic bloodline, for the Jewish Semien dynasty), since that's kind of in the same topical vein as the Moshiach stuff in my mod:

• "Restorer of Israel" bloodline: +5 Israelite and Jewish opinion, +0.2 monthly piety, +5 combat skill, and increased religious conversion speed to Judaism
• Aharonic bloodline: +5 Jewish opinion, +0.1 monthly piety and +0.1 monthly prestige
• (Also: allow all Jews to borrow money from other Jews, which the AI will only do if they're cynical or greedy, and disable the "expel Jews" option. This is to represent the multiple historical ways that rabbinic authorities outlined exceptions to the anti-usury prohibition even as far back as the Mishnah. Because your mod already changes how borrowing money works, this should go in your mod files and not mine.)

What do you think?

Also: since your mod changes the Silk Road around, what do you think about making Constantinople the terminus of the SR?

 

[Furuderikas]

Why would you want to restrict the name "Mohammed" to only Persian Muslims?
Anyway, you can't restrict names to specific religion-culture combinations. You can specify culture-specific names in the cultures file and religion-specific names in the religions file.

You misunderstand, they want to make sure the only people in Persia named ‘Mohammed’ are Muslims, as it makes no sense for Zoroastrians.

 

[damanamana]

You misunderstand, they want to make sure the only people in Persia named ‘Mohammed’ are Muslims, as it makes no sense for Zoroastrians.

Aha! That makes much more sense. And should be easy to implement, by removing "Muhammad" from the Iranian culture namelists.

 

[damanamana]

Hey friend, how's it going? Do you have an ETA for that update?

 

[Farabi]

I love your mod, you've clearly put a great deal of time and effort in. However, I am guessing that this mod conflicts with the Historical Immersion Project, which would really be a dreadful shame as I rarely play without it (although it is presently uninstalled as I am waiting for the Holy Fury update).

Considering that both projects are aimed toward similar goals (i.e. improving the historicity of the CK2 experience), have you ever thought about folding this into HIP? As far as I am aware, they do not have a Jewish specialist - a position you are clearly qualified to fill - and as an Arabist myself I know that North Africa and the Levant could do with some love!

 

[Mouthwash]

Updated for 3.0.1.1. Am away from my computer, and my phone just deleted a detailed writeup. Will do it in the next few days (when I get to a computer) and also try to get the file posted, for those who don't like using Steam. I won't have access to my own computer for a week or two.

 

[Lionhero]

where do I report a bug?

 

[Bj0rn]

Hey there! This mod seems very great. Do you have it on anything other than Steam Workshop? Because I am unable to download it properly through Steam :/ It appears on the Mods Tab but there is no check box to tick. I heard this happens a lot with steam workshop mods.

 

[damanamana]

Updated for 3.0.1.1. Am away from my computer, and my phone just deleted a detailed writeup. Will do it in the next few days (when I get to a computer) and also try to get the file posted, for those who don't like using Steam. I won't have access to my own computer for a week or two.

AAAA YES

 

[Lionhero]

There's a pretty a big bug that stops me from appointing commanders and some other honorary titles. Am I the only one with this problem? I am using steam version

 

[Mouthwash]

I'm sorry for the wait, folks, but I'm back now!

2.00

Faiyum now has the vanilla number of holdings. Assyrian is back in the Byzantine group, since their new graphics don't look so horrifyingly out of place anymore. Money borrowed from Jews has been doubled, while the banks of Israel can now only lend you 200 gold (I don't want a count-tier character getting 600 gold all in one shot).

Coptic province names have been improved and many more have been added; most of the Egyptian counties now have one. In addition, many character names deriving from Judeo-Christian-Islamic texts, such as David or Eve, have been restricted to those religions. No more pagan Africans called Daoud!

Fixed a nasty bug from vanilla where reloading a save would remove all dynamic placenames. They're one of the selling points of the mod, after all.

Finally, one of the event chains from Reaper's Due, in which Jews are blamed for a recent plague, will now only fire for Christians, Muslims and Mazdans. Formerly, this was triggered by a single event which could lead to different chains (the pseudo-historical witches and cats), but the Jew-blaming one is now its own event. They shouldn't fire concurrently, but please report it if they do.

Considering that both projects are aimed toward similar goals (i.e. improving the historicity of the CK2 experience), have you ever thought about folding this into HIP?

I simply don't have the energy or time to do so (just this last update was absolutely backbreaking). I might be willing to help out someone else trying to do this.

where do I report a bug?

Ideally, right here.

Hey there! This mod seems very great. Do you have it on anything other than Steam Workshop? Because I am unable to download it properly through Steam :/ It appears on the Mods Tab but there is no check box to tick. I heard this happens a lot with steam workshop mods.

Not to worry, it will shortly be posted.

There's a pretty a big bug that stops me from appointing commanders and some other honorary titles. Am I the only one with this problem? I am using steam version

I haven't encountered anything like this, and to the best of my recollection I haven't touched any file that deals with titles. Are you sure it's Jewish Immersion? No other mods active? See if the problem persists after reinstalling CKII and playing a new save.