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Great work! :)

Would it be possible to release the AI changes as part of the invictus mod and as a seperate mod? (if you only want to play with the AI improvements sometimes) Or are you working together with Glavius, who will update his AI mod with the invictus changes aswell?
 
Love all this. Have you guys any intention of making some abilities such as 'phalanx' in the military traditions available from the start for Greek factions like the Ptolemies or Seleuicids or triplex acies for the Romans. I think the military trees for Diadochi should be on improving unintegrated culture happiness and improving elephant/ cav abilities than on allowing abilities that should be specific to these factions from the start.

I like the focus you guys are taking with these less fleshed out tags so don't want to bring it back to the Greeks again but its something that's always annoyed me.
 
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When will this release? If you release too close to royal court you will lose any chance of making some noise with this update.
That's such an arbitrary thing to say. They're not competing. The mod is for them and for players of Imperator, and the people who play this game likely already know about this project and have subbed to on Steam or elsewhere already if they intended to do so.
 
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Love all this. Have you guys any intention of making some abilities such as 'phalanx' in the military traditions available from the start for Greek factions like the Ptolemies or Seleuicids or triplex acies for the Romans. I think the military trees for Diadochi should be on improving unintegrated culture happiness and improving elephant/ cav abilities than on allowing abilities that should be specific to these factions from the start.

I like the focus you guys are taking with these less fleshed out tags so don't want to bring it back to the Greeks again but its something that's always annoyed me.
Triplex Acies isn't yet widely used at the game start. Rome should not start with it unlocked, since are at the time, they are only developing the tactic. I agree however with "Phalanx" being unlocked to most Greeks (and Rome, who used it as well).
 
That's such an arbitrary thing to say. They're not competing. The mod is for them and for players of Imperator, and the people who play this game likely already know about this project and have subbed to on Steam or elsewhere already if they intended to do so.
I read @Axis89 comment in a humorous way - since the Imperator Invictus team are now the "official developers" of IR, they are of course under a strict marketing regime and have to care for finding their correct location in big paradox' release calendar :)
 
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I read @Axis89 comment in a humorous way - since the Imperator Invictus team are now the "official developers" of IR, they are of course under a strict marketing regime and have to care for finding their correct location in big paradox' release calendar :)
They're certainly doing a good job at it. ^^
 
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I read @Axis89 comment in a humorous way - since the Imperator Invictus team are now the "official developers" of IR, they are of course under a strict marketing regime and have to care for finding their correct location in big paradox' release calendar :)
Good ;) because I am part of the team.
Im just eager to play :p
 
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DD20: Unit/Religion reworks + Germanic content part 2
Dev Diary 20: Unit rework + Religion reworks + Germanic content part 2
----------- Vandals -----------------
The last time when we talked about Germania in a DD, we left you a hint for the second part of this region’s rework: the eye of Sauron. Obviously, the dark lord won’t appear in Invictus, but the CoA of Haria is based somewhat on it:
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Tacitus noted that the Hari, a sub-tribe of the Lugians, preferred the colour black and that the piercing gaze of their “infernal army” was not easy to behold. Now this also means that there will no longer be Lugia (right side) at the beginning of the game and instead several ‘notable’ Lugian tribes. Although Tacitus mentions that there were way more Lugian tribes, so he concentrated only on the ones that seemed notable to him.
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Tribes with the Vandal culture will be able to pursue a new mission tree with two exclusive formables (the tasks are marked blue below). You can either embrace the ‘more advanced’ Celtic religion and society structure and form the Lugian Confederation or refute foreign influence and directly become Vandalia. Vandalia can also be formed after forming Lugia via a decision, but will require you to cut back on the Celtic influence and advance your society further; just like the Lugian Confederation was replaced by Vandalia again in the late 2nd to 3rd century AD.

There are economical tasks dealing with the Amber Road and advancing your economy by using Celtic know-how, religious tasks asking you to establish a holy site and create a face urn artifact, and finally there are tasks dealing with the Suebian minority. We know from archaeology that a sizable Suebian minority migrated to the east in the 4th and 3rd centuries BC and lived a bit separated from the Vandal population. However, this changed in the late 3rd and early 2nd centuries BC, as those Suebians seemingly became the avant garde of the new Celtic influenced culture.
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The last row also contains two optional missions to expand in the direction the Vandals did later on.
---------- Southern Baltic Coast -------
Further to the north, we can find Lemovia, Rugia and Guthonia, which are going to get a mission tree specific to them. The bottom left mission tasks require you to get access to the sea and foster your amber production, also called “glesum” by the local population (the English word glass is related to this), as well as your rye production (the name Rugia derives from the word proto-Germanic word for rye). Following the left path will lead your focus towards the north, first to the Cimbrian Peninsula as well as the southern Baltic coast and then finally to Scandia.
Alternatively, you can focus more on the right path, though you will need to also establish relations with the people of the Cimbrian peninsula. This is the historical path that starts with looking to the west and north for role models until you migrate further to the east and decide between the Gothic direction towards the Black Sea or the Rugian direction towards the Alps.
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Currently there are no plans to include a mission tree dealing with the Gothic kingdom in Italy in the Germania rework, but this is something we have in mind.

------- Bastarnae and Sciri -----
The final eastern Germanic tree is a very narrow and small tree guiding the player towards migrating with either Bastarnia or Sciria to the Black Sea. First you need to pack your things and then go on the journey. At arrival, the primary tasks are building up your defenses and getting to the favourable position around the Danube Delta. The final task gives you a bonus until the end of the game. Optionally, you can secure an alliance with Makedonia by offering them your mercenary services and expanding into Moesia, or you can bring havoc upon the Greek colonies.
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Note from Snowlet: a lot, if not all of these germanic mission trees will most likely not be in the next update.
------- Unit rebalancing -----

Greetings fellow Invictus people, Parcipal here to supply you with the freshest meme… uhm… to reveal some of my latest work!

Today I’ll be introducing you to some balance changes on a rather sensitive topic: “Warfare”.
Warfare is probably the thing in which you’ll be spending a majority of your time within Imperator(closely followed by letting your AE tick down, obviously!).
Thus caution has to be taken, speaking about War, Units and Balance.

But enough of a precarious measure, more of the actual changes:

-I’ve been tinkering with a rather interesting concept of adding a slight “Morale Damage Taken” modifier (and subsequently increasing it on units, which the modifier is already present) across the board to speed up battles. No great Battle should carry on, virtually, forever. This should, in theory, speed up the battleflow, diminish losses *somewhat* and allow a more diverse Unit-composition for the player. (Gone are the days of 2 viable frontline units!)
On the contrary, units with an unusually high “Morale Damage Taken” modifier get their value reduced slightly, so they may inflict a tiny bit more damage before “routing”.

-Maneuver got buffed on most units to allow a broader selection of flanking units. This includes “Light Infantry”, which should allow them to be a rather mediocre unit for anyone without access to Horses or Steppe Horses.

This concludes “across the board” changes to most units, but worry not, many units got their efficiencies adopted to properly reflect their historical use against one-another.
Now onto more specific changes to highlight some of the nearly-forgotten units.

-Camels have, in my eyes, been neglected by PDX for a little bit. Supposedly a good counter against Horses in combat, while also allowing armies to traverse terrain, while having sufficient supply due to their Carry-capacity. To summarize: An overall good addition to any army (which is not consisting of Horses, solely. You wouldn’t want to scare your own horses!). To reflect this ingame, they have been turned into a rather good counter against any type of horse, while also having a hugely increased food-capacity, making them viable as a “budget”-supply train.

-Warelephants tend to dominate the battlefield, however, they’re fairly slow. I took some of their initial strength away, especially their efficiency against Elephants (On the contrary, Archers have an added bonus of +10% efficiency against Elephants, so Frontline battles might turn in favour of Archers, if it’s still a loss, you’ll economically drain your enemy!)

-Chariots are an interesting Unit (and I sometimes question their military presence within the Games’ Timeframe, but then I remember Albion) received a slight buff, to give tribes a bit more punching-power against the more civilized nations!

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Here’s a list of the currently changed Unit efficiencies, they are still subject to change, ofcourse!

As you may see, Heavy Infantry didn’t receive any buffs/nerfs in the table, but more on that in the next segment!
If you got any feedback about weird unit-matchups or mismatching things, feel free to supply any concerns about the unit changes, but let’s move onto the most concerning unit!

Concluding my part of the Dev-diary with our most extensive (proposed) change:
Heavy Infantry
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Well, I told you, memes are my passion!
However, this meme perfectly portraits the inherent problem with “Heavy Infantry”.
Unifying Spears and Swords into a single unit creates a lot of balance problems, regarding exactly this unit.
Either it’s efficient against everything, making it the absolute unit, thus outperforming everything else. Or you nerf it, while buffing most other units, making it irrelevant!
There’s a very fine line, especially with Heavy Infantry.

We came up with a list of proposals, here’s a quick summary of each one:

A.) Try to balance the unit, without interfering with Vanilla unit-balance too much, revisiting most Heavy-Infantry modifiers, subsequently diminishing those. (Ideal option for the AI and comes with no risks)
B.) Turn Heavy Infantry into a pure “Anchor” unit, severely diminishing their offensive capabilities, while keeping/buffing their defensive values. (However there are concerns that the AI might not be able to handle it properly and it isn’t well explained for new players)
C.) Separate Swordsmen from Spearmen, giving them both their own role and therefore efficiencies. (This would however come at the cost of another unit type most likely so not ideal)

You can vote here: https://strawpoll.vote/polls/76qfcnc6/vote

I’m well aware that 2 out of the 3 proposals are a rather “radical” change and that they require a decent amount of balance and some proper playtesting, but I’d like to sample your feedback on this one, figuring this will be a stepping stone for some military reworks.



------- Religion Rework -----
Dementive here, I’d like to show off some changes that have been made to the many different religions in the game. In vanilla there is very little difference between religions, whether you are playing as a Jain nation in India or a Druidic nation in Gaul, the experience is nearly the exact same. The only real differences between religions now are events and the modifiers which they give, so in Vanilla each religion gives 1 modifier, except for Judaism which gives 3. To balance this and make a distinction between the different religions each religion now has multiple unique modifiers like Judaism does in vanilla. However, some of the modifiers are good and some are bad so each religion will have unique bonuses and challenges.

Here we can see a few of the new religious modifiers:
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***All modifiers shown may be changed later and shouldn’t be taken too seriously***
These changes to modifiers will hopefully make each religion more unique. However, these are not the only changes that are planned. We are also looking into making many more unique religious events and decisions that will further differentiate each religion, more on this in a future dev diary.

Note from Snowlet: these modifiers may at times appear harsh but they are a way for us to represent the vast societal differences between the world and in the case of Hindu to simulate the Caste system, we’ll elaborate on it further and we’ll work heavily on making them interesting and historical.
 
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Beware of little germanic folk trodding up on vesuvius to throw rings in it.
 
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This next update looks to be extremely substantive and I think this was one of the best diaries to date—thanks for all of the hard work, team. We’re all very excited!

A question I’ve been waiting to ask about units:

now that it is relevant given the unit changes, have you considered adding terrain buffs/debuffs for unit types? Would add such a great tactical element to warfare. Seeing 10k steppe horseman crash like water on rocks against a few units of heavy infantry in a mountain pass would be incredible.

cheers
 
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Hyped! Thanks for all your valuable work & ideas.
Small request. Can you bring back somehow any indicator (trait icon?) that a woman is pregnant? It was ingame, but somehow disappeared after 2.0 I guess. Without any reason that would make sense. Now it's all of sudden: a child was born to...
 
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Looks terrific! Keep up the good work
 
Please make some kind of system to make it so that Celtic/Germanic/Iberian tribes don't blob unless they reform into republic or monarchy. It's kind of immersion breaking to see a celtic tribe control all of france before Rome even touches them.

Love the mod, good luck!
 
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First of all, love the mod, keep up the good work.

Here are my two cents worth of suggestions for units and warfare.
While Parcipal is doing the gods work, I believe global changes in the unit stats is not the best way to solve unit balance and army homogeny. I would recommend an asymmetrical balance instead, look to implement unit specific terrain bonuses instead. Vespasians multiplayer mod comes to mind, I would also recommend having a look at the CK2 terrain buffs, as they are pretty good.

Buffing tactical play is more interesting for the player than just poking under the hood of the units, and hopefully easier to teach to the ai.
Speaking of tactics, I would recommend changing how they work, both to make them more interesting and to change the ubiquity of heavy infantry and heavy cav.
First I recommend having each tactic change more things about how the units work (if this is at all possible, so probably not) e.g. Phalanx reduces infantry maneuver by one but gives an additional 10 percent morale. Shock sets non flanking units maneuver to zero to represent the full frontal charge. Triplex acies increases infantry maneuver by one etc. I am sure you get the point.

Furthermore, instead of each tactic only working against two and being countered by two make them countered by two, neutral against themselves and effective against everything else. maybe super effective against the two former effective tactics, breaking the +20% ceiling on effectiveness. Have changing tactics reset morale to 0% (or 50%, what do I know) to avoid on the spot counterpicking. Treat the tactics as doctrine rather than battlefield micro.
I have no idea if it is possible to change (so probably not) but I would love to see the unit tactic effectiveness check for unit composition rather than an average between all units. E.g. to make triplex acies run at 100% effectiveness (ie +25%) the unit composition must be 1HI to 1LI to 0.6 LC, (ignoring support units). The closer the army is to optimal composition the higher the effectiveness goes, the further away from optimum the lower the effectiveness. Have non tactic specific units reduce effectiveness by a fairly large amount to emphasize their ineffectiveness in unfamiliar and mismatched roles in foreign armies. For the basic tactics i would recommend grouping units into type to prevent some ridiculous requirement e.g. Germans can't execute a flanking maneuver because they lack camels.

Finally I think you should consider introducing medium infantry rather than spearmen. I believe the game would benefit more from introducing a unit to proxy the Hastati and Thyreophoroi as opposed to the Phalangites. Right now I believe it is the Light infantry that needs to be changed the most as it represents both skirmishers and line infantry, two unit types that clash far more in purpose than the pike and sword (honestly why are the Veites and Hastati both light infantry but the Peltast seems to be an archer except when it isn't?). The real world difference between well trained men armed in heavy armor was fairly small regardless of whether they were armed in the Gallic, Roman or Greek fashion. The difference between men armed in steel and those in bronze or leather was pronounced as was the difference between those armored in leathers and those who had nothing. This change would also give further room to differentiate between professional troops and levied masses. just because you have chainmail does not mean you are an elite and while unit experience has been implemented to represent this I believe more can be done. Long story short, I think a middle position would be great.

Ideally implementing heavy armor and warhorses as resources, a la Victoria 2 would be the best way to curb army homogeny, but baring a trade and resource overhaul I admit it is probably impossible.

Again, love the mod, haven't played without it since you released it.
 
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Suggestion: nerf Militant Epicureanism's temple desecration mechanics a little, and maybe nerf some of the Omen nerf.

First: many thanks, @Snowlet and all your unsung hero colleagues, for this fabulous mod!

Personally, I love the temple desecration MO for holding together a big and diverse empire with stability boosts (looking at you, alternative-history-Seleukids!). That said, for RP and balance issues alike it all seems a little too easy. It amounts to a button arbitrarily to escape consequences of player mismanagement and/or combined with just plain bad luck! Is the "sacrifice" of the Omen meta really sufficient to compensate for an "instant stability boost" button?

I thought of several possible approaches:
  • give the benefit a cooldown (perhaps similar in length to the current local effect on tyranny, or greater); or
  • reduce the stab bonus based on the time since the last desecration; and/or
  • create a stackable happiness penalty to all "desecrated" pops within the tag - temporary based on the same cooldown as above; and/or
  • in the other direction, perhaps *nerf the Omen nerf", or reduce it only in accordance with proportion of national-religion pops, as the Omen system is supposed to be about the pops' beliefs - not those of the elite political/religious establishment, which has invented M.E. and is running around desecrating things, just like the Christians after Constantine promoted Christianity to the state religion; or
  • As a final possibility, turn such desecration into a Decision or provincial religious investment or (probably simplest for coding?) a territory-based decision "desecrate/dismantle temple", structurally similar to the "build city" decision - thus costing a day or three and/or some currencies as desired to kick off the desecration.
Of course there are other alternatives. That's just a starter for ten. :)

Caveat: (As a coder but with no modding experience) I'm not even sure exactly which of these mechanics might be feasible for modding implementation!. That said, if people think this would be useful, but nobody else is willing to have a crack at it, I might be tempted to give it a go under supervision ...;)
 
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