[Mod Idea] Warhammer Fantasy setting

[Shade2]

http://i.imgur.com/eOMpd.jpg

I suppose this leaves the Chaos Wastes and a few chunks of the Darklands to invent.


Holy moly it's all in.

http://i.imgur.com/k23o1.jpg

There are some problems, however. ClauseWitz Map Checker can't load it, with this error message:

Error: Could not read file from disk. Original error: Value of '101' is not valid for 'Value'. 'Value' should be between 'minimum' and 'maximum'.
Parameter name: Value

Provinces.bmp loads with a different definitions.csv, so I assume there's a duplicate entry or something.


Even worse (?) the colour values in provinces.bmp are sometimes changing slightly. 84 to 85, 7 to 6 and so forth, and sometimes two values at once. I can try re-applying the colour, but it instantly changes back to the shifted value. Sometimes it does stick, but another colour on the map then shifts. I've tried Photoshop and GIMP, and it happens in both of them.

 

[GamingHUD]

Paint me interested.

I only have rather limited modding experience with CK2 (personal mods) and I haven't been involved in Warhammer for a long time (talking mid-6th edition here) but I'd be happy to help where I can.

 

[zakzak]

I would like to refocus the map development on the scope again because we are leaving the old world quite a lot. less then half the map is old world.
All the Araby, southlands, darklands, norsca (potentially), albion, and chaos wastes are not old world.
The more we go away from the old world the less habitable things become and the more complex the people and places are.
We should crop the province map to only include old world areas so we can focus more on the connection they have with the close chaos waste sending out warriors to capture new lands from established nations in the region, not worry about the other races, not have messed up maps(Araby is also less then half its proper size), not worry about complete deserts that all life would die within, not worry about lack of information, and have a better focus on the empire and bretonnia.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

I would like to refocus the map development on the scope again because we are leaving the old world quite a lot. less then half the map is old world.
All the Araby, southlands, darklands, norsca (potentially), albion, and chaos wastes are not old world.
The more we go away from the old world the less habitable things become and the more complex the people and places are.
We should crop the province map to only include old world areas so we can focus more on the connection they have with the close chaos waste sending out warriors to capture new lands from established nations in the region, not worry about the other races, not have messed up maps(Araby is also less then half its proper size), not worry about complete deserts that all life would die within, not worry about lack of information, and have a better focus on the empire and bretonnia.

I agree with the lad on this one.

 

[GamingHUD]

I would like to refocus the map development on the scope again because we are leaving the old world quite a lot. less then half the map is old world.
All the Araby, southlands, darklands, norsca (potentially), albion, and chaos wastes are not old world.
The more we go away from the old world the less habitable things become and the more complex the people and places are.
We should crop the province map to only include old world areas so we can focus more on the connection they have with the close chaos waste sending out warriors to capture new lands from established nations in the region, not worry about the other races, not have messed up maps(Araby is also less then half its proper size), not worry about complete deserts that all life would die within, not worry about lack of information, and have a better focus on the empire and bretonnia.

There's a pretty good map here (albeit dated). At least as far as what the Old World encompasses without going into too much detail. You could probably make a case for Norsca being included though and at an absolute stretch, Albion (Some maps place it quite close to the old world, others not so much - my understanding is that the latter is more accurate).

 

[Bad_Haggis]

I would love to see the whole place included, but that's just my 2 cents.

 

[Keanon]

There's a pretty good map here (albeit dated). At least as far as what the Old World encompasses without going into too much detail. You could probably make a case for Norsca being included though and at an absolute stretch, Albion (Some maps place it quite close to the old world, others not so much - my understanding is that the latter is more accurate).

I'd personally go with that map if I was to embark on creating a Warhammer mod.

 

[GamingHUD]

Here are a load more maps on a more detailed level, particularly that of the Empire.

I'd personally go with that map if I was to embark on creating a Warhammer mod.

Aye and it wouldn't necessarily rule out places like Araby having an effect on the Old World per say, even if they aren't represented by a landmass. The Sultan of All Araby has initiated holy wars against the Old World previously so it wouldn't be out of the question I think for a Sultan to invade Estalia or Tilea via event (just as an example).

 

[zakzak]

As i said before i found the perfect map. We should make the darklands and the chaos wastes wastelands because they are almost unreachable from the old world and that would add a lot more races and religions in.
We could reduce all other races to province modifiers that are not humans.
Dwarfs would add heavy infantry and fort levels.
Beastmen, orcs, undead, etc would all reduce a lot of things.
and no one really would care if we made the moot humans.

There would be a bunch of religions:
Sigmar (old world) Ulrist may be a heresy
Myrmidia (old world) Estalia, Tilea.
Minor (old world) Border princes, bretonnain peasants
Bretonnian (Fey)
Norse (chaos) A endless number of gods including chaos gods
Chaos (chaos) The 4 chaos gods

Each nation would have there own culture group that has a few cultures in it.

We should put a focus on chaos and the old world and not the whole warhammer world. It would be a lot simpler and less brute forced in.

 

[Arcaul]

If it's a boatload of maps you are looking or here is the place to look: http://www.gitzmansgallery.com/Warhammer_Maps/index.html Now the only reason why I suggest these is that it gives ridiculous amounts of detail in terms of names for places like in the Empire.

Also this is all the places with names and baronies and whatnot just shout if you want access: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Alqhgz5h9Te1dGxPX1RLcERfTmhDcGk5UktqZ2RpalE#gid=0

Finally a lot of things we are discussing here have already been discussed to death. Titular Kingdoms and what not? Page 15 Comment # 285. Religions? Page 11 Comment # 203. Cultures? Page 10 Comment # 187 (although it was heavily modified later without this particular post being updated). And so on. Its basically all been done because it was part of the feasibility before we actually started the mod.

As for the criticism of how big the map should be or not well when it was my mod we decided it should be small. Since it is no longer my mod I have no right to tell him how to build it properly as that is a subjective view. I basically just laid out why we did the map the way we did. He wanted a bigger map and he was willing to make it so just leave him alone about it. If you disagree build your own mod.

 

[GamingHUD]

As for the criticism of how big the map should be or not well when it was my mod we decided it should be small. Since it is no longer my mod I have no right to tell him how to build it properly as that is a subjective view. I basically just laid out why we did the map the way we did. He wanted a bigger map and he was willing to make it so just leave him alone about it. If you disagree build your own mod.

It wasn't criticism, they were suggestions.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Every time I see those fan-made maps of Estalia with names like Ubrique or Sitges... xDDD Real places with names taken from a map, as if it wasn't at all important.

About cultures, I think too that every "great kingdom" should have its own culture group with its subgroups.

For instance:

Spoiler

Imperial group
- Reiklander
- Talabeclander
- Middelander (Middenland and Hochland)
- Ostlander (Ostland and Ostermark, and although Ostermark is a bit Kislevised, I think that Ostland is as well a bit Poland-like)
- Sudenlander (Averland, Wissenland and lost Solland. maybe even Stirland)
- Nordlander
- Sylvanian
- Halfling?

Bretonnian
- No idea if it's worth dividing it...

Estalian
- Ah, the ever unknown Estalia...

Tilean
- I guess we can divide it between cities, although it's already good as it is...

Kislevite
- There are cultural subgroup in Kislev, many as the different Kislevite regions, I think.

Norse
- The different tribes, maybe.

As for religions, I suggest "religion groups". Myrmidia is not a Sigmarite heresy, nor a different religion. It's all part of the "True Faith" or "New Faith" the humans follow. After all, what does it mean "heresy" in a world of many gods and cults, where tolerance seems to be rampant (except with Chaos, for obvious reasons).

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Old_World_pantheon

Ignoring the old division between Northern and Southern Gods (within the Empire), I think it's better to join them all into the same group and then make each god a small sub-group, a religion of its own. Religion in the Old World is not so monolithic, and there are no provinces worshipping only one god, or even one god entirely. Although Middenland is primarilly Ulric-worshipping, Talabecland worshops mainly Taal and Reikland is the seat of the Cult of Sigmar, things are of course much more tangled. But for the sake of simplicity, I'd make it thus:

Spoiler

True Faith group
- Sigmar, Heldenhammer
- Myrmidia, the Warrant Lady
- Ulric, the Wolf of Battle
- Manann, the Lord of the Seas
- Morr, the Silent God
- Shallya, the Merciful
- Taal, the Wilderking
- Rhya, the Allmother
- Verena, the Just
- Khaine, the Murderer (whose cult if persecuted, so probably marking it heretic is a good idea)
- Ranald, the Trickster (God of thieves, once a human who tricked Shallya into making him a God)
- Stromfels, the Stormlord (whose cult is mostly followed by pirates, another candidate for heresy)
- Esmeralda, the goddess of Home (the Halfling goddess)

Kislevite group (although maybe it should be in the True Faith group)
- Dhaz, the Fire-giver (Kislev's Prometheus)
- Tor, the Thunderer
- Ursun, the Father of Bears

Bretonnian
- the Lady of the Lake

Tilean
- Lucan & Luccina
- In the rest of Tilea they worship the regular Old World pantheon (most of the Old Gods above)

Chaos
- Khorne
- Tzeentch
- Nurgle
- Slaanesh

Arabian?

Khemrian?

I can't wait to play and see events like "Hear one, hear all! Tonight is Geheimsnacht", with the plethora of nasty events and demons, or one of my Bretonnian dukes relinquishing all and going on a Quest, becoming a Questing Knight... also the relations between Grail Knights and the Fay Enchantress, and how does that Cult interact with the King of Bretonnia.

The world of Warhammer, with its striking pseudo-historicity, is a very rich place to make a vibrant world of it with CK2's mechanics.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Sorry for double posting, but I was kind of bored and I decided to take a try at making Warhammer heraldry. When making the Electors' CoAs, I stumbled upon a problem. There are "county flags" and also "elector heraldry".

The flags are here:





The elector heraldry is here:



So, which one should I follow? Some change dramatically, like the Wissenland balance vs. the lion, the Middenlander red vs blue, the Nordlander eagle vs. the vessel...

It would be good that we discussed which one of those are dynastic heraldry, and therefore made dynastic CoA of the ruling Elector, and what can be considered "the privative coat of arms" of each Electorate.

I'd like to add as much of those pieces as possible. It's a pity we don't have a way to make distinctions between flags and CoAs, but this is CK and it's made to represent the XIII-XIVth Centuries, not the late 1400's early 1500's that CK represent.

With Bretonnia, it'll be easier. There's just too much beautiful heraldry in Warhammer.

 

[Keanon]

You see the shields, not the banners in CK2, so go with the shields.

 

[Shade2]

I figured out what was causing complete rejection by CW Map Checker, it was because the .csv generated by the Google Spreadsheet tool was UNIX, not DOS/WINDOWS as the CK2 resources should be.

However, the shifting rgb values continues to be strange and unhelpful. As I said earlier, it has changed some of the province colours to a very similar value. 126/46/9 to 126/46/8, for example. I have no idea what could cause this, and it occurs in both Photoshop and GIMP, in .bmp, .png and .psd files. If I try fixing the value, it usually refuses to change at all, but there is a low chance that it will stick. I'm almost certain that if it does get back to the right value, another colour on the map gets changed in sympathy.

This initially happened much earlier when I initially drew in the provinces for Kislev, but it inexplicably stopped and the low amount of provinces at that point meant the damage was very limited.

So if anyone has an explanation or cure for this, it would be greatly appreciated.



Regarding religions, my opinion is that only a few groups would be necessary. In the 'Old World', the pantheon is generally known and respected by the majority of the lower and upper classes across all the nations, the main difference in belief being over "who's the coolest?". A Sigmarite does not deny the existence of Ulric, nor do they confuse him with the Lady of the Lake. There are certainly differences, such as Bretonnians being confounded at what looks like the worship of a mortal man (Sigmar), but the differences in doctrine are very petty and mild when Chaos cults, necromancers and so on are running around. Not to say a zealous knight or lector won't go around beating up non-Chaos 'heretics', but the Old World does have a shared pantheon that looks mighty similar when compared to what else is crawling around.

As rough example, Ulric and Sigmar are part of the same group, with the minor deities folded under their closest related major religion. The worship of whichever god would probably be best applied through traits. This is all just guessing and thought exercise, though, nothing solid.

"Old World Pantheon"
-Sigmar
-Ulric
-Lady of the Lake
... and more

"Chaos"
-Chaos (the pure, frightful worship of Chaos on the Chaos Wastes and some other areas, having completely subsumed local custom for undivided worship or the big four)
-Norse (Chaos god worship mixed with local ritual, ancestor worship, local deities, etc, used by most of Norsca and part of why they aren't quite so insane and aggressive)
-Hashut (Chaos Dwarf worship makes it powerful and distinct enough to have his own slot, giving them a little love/hate relationship with the rest of the gang)

 

[GamingHUD]

Sorry for double posting, but I was kind of bored and I decided to take a try at making Warhammer heraldry. When making the Electors' CoAs, I stumbled upon a problem. There are "county flags" and also "elector heraldry".

The flags are here:

View attachment 64510

View attachment 64511

The elector heraldry is here:

View attachment 64512

So, which one should I follow? Some change dramatically, like the Wissenland balance vs. the lion, the Middenlander red vs blue, the Nordlander eagle vs. the vessel...

It would be good that we discussed which one of those are dynastic heraldry, and therefore made dynastic CoA of the ruling Elector, and what can be considered "the privative coat of arms" of each Electorate.

I'd like to add as much of those pieces as possible. It's a pity we don't have a way to make distinctions between flags and CoAs, but this is CK and it's made to represent the XIII-XIVth Centuries, not the late 1400's early 1500's that CK represent.

With Bretonnia, it'll be easier. There's just too much beautiful heraldry in Warhammer.

The nature of Warhammer that'll work against us is that things like dynasties are never really explored. I'd be inclined to use the personal heraldry of the Elector Counts as a basis of their dynastic CoA (its the closest we have). The other set of Elector Count heraldry would be better suited as the flags for the Elector Count titles and the same for the City states (which be underneath them). Choosing Karl Franz' dynastic CoA is probably a little more... difficult, as he has half-dozen flags at least that one could choose from.

 

[sir Eyeball]

The nature of Warhammer that'll work against us is that things like dynasties are never really explored. I'd be inclined to use the personal heraldry of the Elector Counts as a basis of their dynastic CoA (its the closest we have). The other set of Elector Count heraldry would be better suited as the flags for the Elector Count titles and the same for the City states (which be underneath them). Choosing Karl Franz' dynastic CoA is probably a little more... difficult, as he has half-dozen flags at least that one could choose from.

The empire is pretty stagnant I'll grant you that same for Bretonia actually. But border Princes, Tillea and Estalia are all very interesting hotpots.

Edit I meant in terms of dynasties and changes within them.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

The empire is pretty stagnant I'll grant you that same for Bretonia actually. But border Princes, Tillea and Estalia are all very interesting hotpots.

Edit I meant in terms of dynasties and changes within them.

Well, we can make Estalia up. Totally. It has only been explored in a couple of noves that, on top of that, were built on fanmade wanks and doesn't enjoy much "canonicity". But hey, let's use what we have.

***

Regarding flags, I'll try to make coats of arms out of the flags and use the CoAs of the electors as personal heraldry... but I'll try and keep some patterns. For example, I prefer the lion over the balance in Wissenland. Mainly because the balance is a symbol of Nuln -the Elector of Wissenland lives in Nuln, after all, neglecting Wissenburg.

There's another problem: Middenheim and Middenland are separate entities. Altdorf, Talabheim, Nuln and Middenheim are city states, and while they are independent from their "surrounding" principalities, usually the electors live there. In the case of Middenheim, its prince is also Prince of Middenland, but what is the capital of Middenland itself?


***

By the way, we might need new sprites... Is there a way to make those nice EUIII 1500's sprites (the German zweihanders would rock it as Imperial soldiers!) into CK2?

 

[sir Eyeball]

Well, we can make Estalia up. Totally. It has only been explored in a couple of noves that, on top of that, were built on fanmade wanks and doesn't enjoy much "canonicity". But hey, let's use what we have.

***

Regarding flags, I'll try to make coats of arms out of the flags and use the CoAs of the electors as personal heraldry... but I'll try and keep some patterns. For example, I prefer the lion over the balance in Wissenland. Mainly because the balance is a symbol of Nuln -the Elector of Wissenland lives in Nuln, after all, neglecting Wissenburg.

There's another problem: Middenheim and Middenland are separate entities. Altdorf, Talabheim, Nuln and Middenheim are city states, and while they are independent from their "surrounding" principalities, usually the electors live there. In the case of Middenheim, its prince is also Prince of Middenland, but what is the capital of Middenland itself?


***

By the way, we might need new sprites... Is there a way to make those nice EUIII 1500's sprites (the German zweihanders would rock it as Imperial soldiers!) into CK2?

There is the not fanmade book called Zaragoz by Brian Craig that describes the northern part of Estalia pretty well even has a map.
The Empire will be hard to play in as one of the lesser titles as the Empire is pretty stable at the time and not a lot of changes in the provinces take place. There are of course exceptions so for the purpose of the game it would probably be OK. The border princes on the other hand is pretty much up to us to invent and posses the biggest challenge game play wise. I would even say that a mod based entirely on the border princes and Tillea would make for a great game.

Edit if you were to do the last then the mod would be an easier build and then later you could build upon it.

Edit 2 there is this if you want a little to go on but this one is fanmade http://issuu.com/m4cr1ii3n/docs/warhammer-armies---estalia_20100908_225012

 

[GamingHUD]

Well, we can make Estalia up. Totally. It has only been explored in a couple of noves that, on top of that, were built on fanmade wanks and doesn't enjoy much "canonicity". But hey, let's use what we have.

***

Regarding flags, I'll try to make coats of arms out of the flags and use the CoAs of the electors as personal heraldry... but I'll try and keep some patterns. For example, I prefer the lion over the balance in Wissenland. Mainly because the balance is a symbol of Nuln -the Elector of Wissenland lives in Nuln, after all, neglecting Wissenburg.

There's another problem: Middenheim and Middenland are separate entities. Altdorf, Talabheim, Nuln and Middenheim are city states, and while they are independent from their "surrounding" principalities, usually the electors live there. In the case of Middenheim, its prince is also Prince of Middenland, but what is the capital of Middenland itself?


***

By the way, we might need new sprites... Is there a way to make those nice EUIII 1500's sprites (the German zweihanders would rock it as Imperial soldiers!) into CK2?

The city states are still apart of the province they are associated with though (as is my understanding). You could probably represent them as duchies run by a mayor (similar to say Genoa in vanilla). The wrong government penalty could simulate that the burghers don't exactly bow to their respective Elector Counts in all things.

In terms of sprites, I don't think they can be modded at all.