Which is exactly why I won;t use a battlaion modJust for reference, a 1944 german panzerdivision would need 15 batallions to cover all batallion-sized (or bigger) components
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A mechanized division cannot contain an armor brigade, since it only has half of that. But a mechanized division does have armor, so you have to think of the armor as abstracted into the mechanized brigade itself (which isn't that bad). A mechanized division has half the armor of a panzer brigade, and two mechanized brigades (regiments), so each mechanized brigade in a mechanized division contains a quarter of a panzer brigade
One armor division has one armor brigade, one motorized and one mechanized. That one mechanized brigade costs the same if it's in an armor division, so it contains a quarter of a panzer brigade worth of tanks.
Hence, 25% more tanks, IC wise
I reckon that manpower and supply costs, etc... will be easily modified (at least they were in previous versions). With respect to the number of brigades in a division... I'm not sure if this can be modified?? We'll have to wait and see I guess?
Ranking structure (in real life) works as follows:
*A 'troop' is the marine equivalent of 'platoon'.
Well colonel wouldn't come next... that'd be 'Brigadier General'. Perhaps Paradox will have more than 4 layers this time (it would make sense afterall).
Ranking structure (in real life) works as follows:
- Army Group = Field Marshall
- Army = General
- Corps = Lieutenant General
- Division = Major General
- Brigade = Brigadier General
- Regiment = Colonel
- Battalion = Lieutenant Colonel
- Company = Major/Captain
- Troop*/Platoon = 2nd Lieutenant/1st Lieutenant
*A 'troop' is the marine equivalent of 'platoon'.
As Seil pointed out earlier, it is too much micromanagement on the players part (I am a supporter of micromanagement, but alot people wouldn't play the game if there was alot of it.) Not only would they have to rework the system, then they have to do alot more research into all the Colonels and Brigadier Generals in our timeline that would make the generals list in HoI2 a picnic. Just too much and we already have a system that seems that will work.
Well... if you're going to have brigades, you really should have Brigadier Generals. Even if they just put that ability to have them there, I'm sure the community would make the mod for their inclusion, with all of the historical Brigadier Generals in.
You wouldn't need any additional leaders at all, as far as I know those will only be assigned to divisions (And maybe corps and armies, that has yet to be clarified).
The amount of additional research would also not be that bad, because things like AT, SPART, Engineer and so on already exist as brigades.
Nevertheless, it's of course true there would be more micromanagement, and that's why it's only a proposed MOD. For people who like that.
The amount of additional research would also not be that bad, because things like AT, SPART, Engineer and so on already exist as brigades.
Nevertheless, it's of course true there would be more micromanagement, and that's why it's only a proposed MOD. For people who like that.
You aren't able to build 'brigades' though, the smallest unit on the map is still the division
(even though that division is made up from brigades)
I thought we were now having seperate brigades in HoI3, which you can then put together as divisions as you please?? I might have misunderstood to development diaries, though?You aren't able to build 'brigades' though, the smallest unit on the map is still the division
(even though that division is made up from brigades)
EDIT: Ahh... from looking at the interface in the development diary it seems there won't be brigades across the map, but you build a division, as you please, from the variety of brigades available. From my reading (I didn't really take much notice of the picture first time) I was thinking that it meant there were going to be seperate brigades roaming around in HoI3?
Still... it'd be nice for this feature to be available for mods though? Give more choice to players I say!
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Troop covers platoon for Cavalry as well, and Company is usually called a "Squadron" for Cav troopers.
For Arty, Platoon is usually on a gun, and the company level is refered to as a 'Battery'.
Majors tend not to command Companies... that honor is usually left to 1st Lieutenants and Captains. On the outside, generally a Major (promotable) is in charge of a Battalion.
Also, Regiment was a term that was passing on in the US Army around the time of WWII, once we figured out that a Regimental Combat Team was probably too understrength to fight against what were stronger (MTO&E-wise) 'Regiments' of the old world. Even the Armored Cavalry Regiments of the current Army (ACRs) are really a reinforced Brigade-sized element.
I don't think Colonels are required, but Brigadiers/ Brigadier Generals. The new system gives a few options for flexibility and five choices seems enough to me. Brigades are the smallest realistic force that operates alone. Bn size units would only be used on the micro provinces. I think the news system will work well as long as all of the 3,000 units are also available in 1,000 units. You should be able to adda Bn of Arm to an Inf Div instead of needing to adda whole Bde of tanks for example.
Brigades are somewhat fictional in WWII by Paradox. You need to see them as overstrength regiments or complements to regular regiments.
A German infantry brigade would include all personnel and weaponry that you would normally find in a division comprised of such a unit based on doctrine. So a German infantry division with three infantry brigades and an artillery brigade would be about 16.000 men strong with three infantry regiments (incl heavy weapons, AA and AT), one artillery regiment, one reconnaissance battalion, AT battalion and one Pioneer battalion. This was pretty much standard in any German infantry division.
If you only take, say... two infantry brigades then you would get the same, but the recon and AT battalions would be understrength instead.
The power value does not represent number of men in the unit, it is only a value to represent the brigades combat staying power and whether it is a front line or support brigade. A 3k brigade would usually hold more then 3000 personnel and most 1000 strength brigades would be way more than 1000 personnel. A regular German infantry division would be 3 infantry brigades and one Artillery brigade, that would be 10.000 in game strength but represent a division with approximately 16.000 men.
Another good example of a German division would be a 1943 Panzer grenadier division. First of all, these were basically motorized infantry with an armored detachment added (StuG usually). The infantry regiments were motorized and reduced in total strength, so in the game a regular German panzer grenadier division could be two motorized infantry brigades, one armored car brigade and a SP Artillery brigade. Or maybe replace one motorized brigade with a mechanized to represent the armored battalion.
A German infantry brigade would include all personnel and weaponry that you would normally find in a division comprised of such a unit based on doctrine. So a German infantry division with three infantry brigades and an artillery brigade would be about 16.000 men strong with three infantry regiments (incl heavy weapons, AA and AT), one artillery regiment, one reconnaissance battalion, AT battalion and one Pioneer battalion. This was pretty much standard in any German infantry division.
If you only take, say... two infantry brigades then you would get the same, but the recon and AT battalions would be understrength instead.
The power value does not represent number of men in the unit, it is only a value to represent the brigades combat staying power and whether it is a front line or support brigade. A 3k brigade would usually hold more then 3000 personnel and most 1000 strength brigades would be way more than 1000 personnel. A regular German infantry division would be 3 infantry brigades and one Artillery brigade, that would be 10.000 in game strength but represent a division with approximately 16.000 men.
Another good example of a German division would be a 1943 Panzer grenadier division. First of all, these were basically motorized infantry with an armored detachment added (StuG usually). The infantry regiments were motorized and reduced in total strength, so in the game a regular German panzer grenadier division could be two motorized infantry brigades, one armored car brigade and a SP Artillery brigade. Or maybe replace one motorized brigade with a mechanized to represent the armored battalion.
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Damn - people its about a MOD...
This topic was about possibilieties to change the game.
IMO the best way for it is changing chain of command thats why I said about chainging ranks.
Nevermind
This topic was about possibilieties to change the game.
IMO the best way for it is changing chain of command thats why I said about chainging ranks.
Nevermind
I'm not really sure if building separate battalions and being able to freely mix them together is such a smart idea for a mod. Doctrines will make a much better interpretation of brigade strength for divisions when compared against reality.
Being able to freely mix and change battalions will negate much of what doctrines are suppose to be in the game. I also have a hard time believing that this mod change will fit well with the combat mechanism of the game.
If the brigades are upgradable based on doctrine and technology in the same way as ships are I think that we will simulate reality quite well with what Paradox have in the standard setup.
Though, I do think that some "Realism" mods are always welcome later on, as of now we could all only speculate of what is possible to do or not...
Being able to freely mix and change battalions will negate much of what doctrines are suppose to be in the game. I also have a hard time believing that this mod change will fit well with the combat mechanism of the game.
If the brigades are upgradable based on doctrine and technology in the same way as ships are I think that we will simulate reality quite well with what Paradox have in the standard setup.
Though, I do think that some "Realism" mods are always welcome later on, as of now we could all only speculate of what is possible to do or not...
Geez, why stop at battalions? Why not go all the way and actually have platoons, squads or even individual fire teams? :wacko:
I'm not really sure if building separate battalions and being able to freely mix them together is such a smart idea for a mod. Doctrines will make a much better interpretation of brigade strength for divisions when compared against reality.
Being able to freely mix and change battalions will negate much of what doctrines are suppose to be in the game. I also have a hard time believing that this mod change will fit well with the combat mechanism of the game.
If the brigades are upgradable based on doctrine and technology in the same way as ships are I think that we will simulate reality quite well with what Paradox have in the standard setup.
Though, I do think that some "Realism" mods are always welcome later on, as of now we could all only speculate of what is possible to do or not...
Of course all combat values and statistics will have to be revised and balanced for a battalion mod.
The smallest formation would be a brigade, but the game would treat it as a division... or rather, a tactical unit.
Adding BrgGens will probably be impossible due to obvious hard coding.
No matter tho, using MgGens on formations that are called Brigades isn't a big deal at all.
We may eventually change the start dates of all generals to activate when they became BrgGens to allow for more generals, but I doubt that would be necessary.
Whenever Brigades were used as tactical units, the division level was skipped for corps as the next operational unit (see the soviet mechkorps).
By abstracting the division level to a tactical level, it doesn't matter if formations are called brigades or divisions.
Also to those who claim that this will cause more micromanaging, please refer to the formation template system which will ensure that no such unwanted micromanaging ever takes place.
We can also do individual soldiers - that would be cool!
resources can be mod so 1 represents 1kg and so on! and why not create soldires as we create divisions? from parts: 1 block is head 1 for corpse 2 for legs 2 for arms and 1 for nutty bits...
:rofl:
resources can be mod so 1 represents 1kg and so on! and why not create soldires as we create divisions? from parts: 1 block is head 1 for corpse 2 for legs 2 for arms and 1 for nutty bits...
:rofl:
We can also do individual soldiers - that would be cool!
resources can be mod so 1 represents 1kg and so on! and why not create soldires as we create divisions? from parts: 1 block is head 1 for corpse 2 for legs 2 for arms and 1 for nutty bits...
:rofl:
Good idea! But we should be allowed to choose- kg or pounds.
Plus that, the rationing is in grams, so......
Sorry for the OT, but it's funny!
Ok. Then why HoI3 should have brigades ? It is a GRAND strategy game ! Why divisions - we can just use corps instead ? But wait, why not armies as smallest unit ? Or army groups ?
I support Brigades because they are the smallest reasonable strategic unit. I think the division should be the basis as Johan has informed us, but that Brigades should be able to have independent movement. At least we should be able to use mini-divisions so that rear areas and coasts can have a more realistic and balanced force, rather than the stacks of full-size divisions HOI2 required for these brigade sized tasks.