[MOD] Geheimnisnacht - Warhammer Fantasy

[Warlord Skorr]

Wow, I just caught up with all that.
I'm kinda bummed about the retcon of the storm of chaos because there where some interesting things that came out of it. (what of Be'Lakor now ?).

Unfortunately, the theme GW has going in both Warhammer universes means that the result of a massive campaign like Storm of Chaos should be a minor or negligible victory for the bad guys. That's probably the main reason why the Eye of Terror campaign hasn't been retconned yet and SoC has.

On the positive side, Valten apparently gets new rules in the Nagash campaign book that Games-Workshop just released, so they are keeping at least a few good concepts from that whole thing. I would also be fine with seeing Be'Lakor go if it means the Skaven nuke disappears down the memory hole as well.

 

[illathid]

Wow, I just caught up with all that.
I'm kinda bummed about the retcon of the storm of chaos because there where some interesting things that came out of it. (what of Be'Lakor now ?).
The changes to the world are pretty massives and maybe excessives here and there. But we will see where this whole thing go I guess.
The true question here is, how will this massive retcon affect the mod ?

Well, some stuff from the storm of chaos is still true. Archaon still invades the empire through Kislev, but it looks like the invasion stall out in Ostland rather than continuing all the way to Middenheim. As far as I know Be'lakor is still around. He plays a pretty big part in the new Archaon novel, so I doubt he's been dropped.

You're right about changes being excessive, although I understand it to some effect. GW doesn't currently have any Kislevite models to sell, and they need to show Archaon is really dangerous, so why not have him destroy Kislev,etc.

As for how this changes the mod, we were going to have a Storm of Chaos bookmark, but we'll probably have an End Times one instead. We'll probably have it pretty early on so if you want to try to turn it
around for kislev, you can.

As for undeads and religious groups here are my two cents:

Within the undead "religious group" we have 3 very different branch.

-The Tomb Kings still loyal to ancient Nehekharan religion. Among the undeads they are the only one to actually worship gods.

-Then we have the "Path of Nagash" group. This would be a "religion" followed by thoses few undeads and vampires who stayed loyal to the great necromancer (maybe not entirely by choice), and by mortals who study the art of necromancy to escape the fate of death.

-And finally we have the "Night's Dark Masters". The vampire ego trip group who just want to live forever, rule over mortals and stay at the top of the food chain. Also followed by thoses mortals who embrace the servitude toward vampires.

*-Additionaly there could be a generic undead group for spontaneous undead occurences that can sometime happen in the old world. Like a random event where a bunch of idiot adventurers dig in the wrong burial site and now you have to deal with a wight leading a zombie horde in your county.

So what do we make of that ? Well I would say Ancient Nehekharan should be the orthodoxy, being the ones who ressemble the most to an organized religion. That would make the other 2/3 heresies.

And then for the End Times you could have a big chain of envent where Nagash wakes up, conquer the Tomb Kings, reform the Path of Nagash into the new main undead religion with him at the head and go on forcefully converting/vassalizing thoses silly "independant" vampires.

Yeah, we'll probably do something like that. Right now we have the Vampiric religion and the Nehekaran religion in separate religious groups. It could make sense to unify them.

yeah, this is cool. Looking forward to this. May-have-been-answered question, but any plans as to how you will represent the Under-Empire of the Skaven when you get around to them?

We've had a few ideas, but none of them seem like that great of fit at the moment. The one I like the best so far was to make a inland sea that no one but skaven could build boats on to represent the tunnels. Skaven would then be merchant republics and make "trade posts" in different provinces as the under-empire. The inland sea would look really janky though, so I'm not the biggest fan.

 

[Col. Tarleton]

Wow, I just caught up with all that.
I'm kinda bummed about the retcon of the storm of chaos because there where some interesting things that came out of it. (what of Be'Lakor now ?).
The changes to the world are pretty massives and maybe excessives here and there. But we will see where this whole thing go I guess.
The true question here is, how will this massive retcon affect the mod ?

Storm of Chaos is still happening. They're just doing serious clean up on how it goes down and then expanding into what happens afterwards. I would imagine almost no change because this is set well after the Geheimnisnacht era. They don't seem to be retconning the past, just cleaning up the present and adding a future.

As for undeads and religious groups here are my two cents:

Within the undead "religious group" we have 3 very different branch.

-The Tomb Kings still loyal to ancient Nehekharan religion. Among the undeads they are the only one to actually worship gods.

-Then we have the "Path of Nagash" group. This would be a "religion" followed by thoses few undeads and vampires who stayed loyal to the great necromancer (maybe not entirely by choice), and by mortals who study the art of necromancy to escape the fate of death.

-And finally we have the "Night's Dark Masters". The vampire ego trip group who just want to live forever, rule over mortals and stay at the top of the food chain. Also followed by thoses mortals who embrace the servitude toward vampires.

*-Additionaly there could be a generic undead group for spontaneous undead occurences that can sometime happen in the old world. Like a random event where a bunch of idiot adventurers dig in the wrong burial site and now you have to deal with a wight leading a zombie horde in your county.

So what do we make of that ? Well I would say Ancient Nehekharan should be the orthodoxy, being the ones who ressemble the most to an organized religion. That would make the other 2/3 heresies.

And then for the End Times you could have a big chain of envent where Nagash wakes up, conquer the Tomb Kings, reform the Path of Nagash into the new main undead religion with him at the head and go on forcefully converting/vassalizing thoses silly "independant" vampires.

Yeah that seems reasonable. Nagash should become the true faith when he becomes the avatar of Usirian during the End Times.

Well, some stuff from the storm of chaos is still true. Archaon still invades the empire through Kislev, but it looks like the invasion stall out in Ostland rather than continuing all the way to Middenheim. As far as I know Be'lakor is still around. He plays a pretty big part in the new Archaon novel, so I doubt he's been dropped.

You're right about changes being excessive, although I understand it to some effect. GW doesn't currently have any Kislevite models to sell, and they need to show Archaon is really dangerous, so why not have him destroy Kislev,etc.

Well to be fair I don't know how the Chaos Hordes could invade the empire without sacking Kislev. The country is in ruins but there are refugees and armies and the leadership are still fighting on. They will return and rebuild, assuming the world doesn't end.

We've had a few ideas, but none of them seem like that great of fit at the moment. The one I like the best so far was to make a inland sea that no one but skaven could build boats on to represent the tunnels. Skaven would then be merchant republics and make "trade posts" in different provinces as the under-empire. The inland sea would look really janky though, so I'm not the biggest fan.

It's actually fairly canonical, the Skaven main transit system appears to be water rats. Clan Skurvy and Clan Skuttle are the most powerful clans in this theater, with Skurvy having a Lord of Decay and Skuttle trying to usurp them. Spineport is a port city beneath Tobaro. The clan is featured in dread fleet with some of their seafaring vessels.

 

[illathid]

Well to be fair I don't know how the Chaos Hordes could invade the empire without sacking Kislev. The country is in ruins but there are refugees and armies and the leadership are still fighting on. They will return and rebuild, assuming the world doesn't end.

Well IIRC in the Storm of Chaos fluff they just plowed through Western Kislev and left the rest be for the most part. In the End Times it sounds as if the whole of Kislev has been occupied.

It's actually fairly canonical, the Skaven main transit system appears to be water rats. Clan Skurvy and Clan Skuttle are the most powerful clans in this theater, with Skurvy having a Lord of Decay and Skuttle trying to usurp them. Spineport is a port city beneath Tobaro. The clan is featured in dread fleet with some of their seafaring vessels.

I thought most of the Skaven tunnels used a train system of some kind? regardless having a visible sea system would look horrible on the map. Luckily the Three Towers mod has come up with a way to have inland trade posts without ugly inland seas. The trick will be keeping the regular sea based merchant republics separate from the skaven clans.

 

[TheKiwi]

Very excited to discover this mod. Long time WFRPG and WFB gamer.

Will you give the Skaven generals all the "Organiser" trait so they can run away faster?

 

[Darsara]

Very excited to discover this mod. Long time WFRPG and WFB gamer.

Will you give the Skaven generals all the "Organiser" trait so they can run away faster?

Skaven organisers... that sounds so wrong :rofl:.

 

[Warlord Skorr]

Skaven organisers... that sounds so wrong :rofl:.

If Skaven get Craven and Cruel from birth as well, that would actually represent them pretty well.

 

[unmerged(816543)]

Skaven organisers... that sounds so wrong :rofl:.

Skavens can be very, very well organized. But when their plans go wrong, skaven instinct make the debacle even worse. Its every skaven for itself and they will backstab each other at the first chance they get if they can gain anything from it.

If Skaven get Craven and Cruel from birth as well, that would actually represent them pretty well.

While it is true that the common clan rat is a pretty craven kind of creature, it is not always true and especially for skaven leaders wich happen to be the ones we will be playing. As for Cruelty they don't see non-skaven as peoples so it does not count and while its true many Skaven Warlords rule by fear and cruelty, it is not always the case. Some clever rats down there have learned other ways to be obeyed even if they are not the majority.

As I've said before with dwarves I'm ok with the idea of some species having more chances to gain certain traits that are supposed to be common among them. But plainly forcing some traits one some species is silly. There are always characters who defy the stereotype of their species and taht's what make them even more interesting.

I'm guessing non-humans will have a species trait in game that will reflect relevants characteristics of said species. Low morale armies like the skavens and goblins would have -% to morale defense while high morale armies like dwarves and elves would get a bonus.

 

[Darsara]

Skavens can be very, very well organized. But when their plans go wrong, skaven instinct make the debacle even worse. Its every skaven for itself and they will backstab each other at the first chance they get if they can gain anything from it.

True. But with their nature in mind, another organizer-clone with a different name might be better. Controlling or something, which gives less impression of careful tactics and filling out all the paperwork.

 

[illathid]

Well as it stands Skaven are not implemented at all so far. And that will probably be the case until we settle on the best way to represent the Under-Empire in game.

 

[Isinfier]

Out of sheer curiosity what are the cultures looking like for the Empire and Bretonnia?

+ EDIT: Another inquest; how do you plan to integrate Charlemagne's duchy/kingdom/empire creation? Will it be disabled, or will we be able to found our own non-canon elector states within the Empire?

 

[Darsara]

Well as it stands Skaven are not implemented at all so far. And that will probably be the case until we settle on the best way to represent the Under-Empire in game.

Very true. Pointless to debate it right now.

 

[scruffy_bear]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who is hard at work creating this mod . Warhammer and CK 2 is perfect match.

 

[illathid]

Out of sheer curiosity what are the cultures looking like for the Empire and Bretonnia?

Spoiler

Another inquest; how do you plan to integrate Charlemagne's duchy/kingdom/empire creation? Will it be disabled, or will we be able to found our own non-canon elector states within the Empire?

Haven't discussed it internally yet. I imagine we will leave it as is unless we can think of a reason not to. However, since you brought it up, it would likely be impossible for one of these custom states to be a grand province with an elector count. The electors of the empire have been, for the most part, immutable since the Hohenbach emperors of Drakwald (Jürgen the Opulent, Ludwig The Fat, and Boris the Incompetent).

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who is hard at work creating this mod . Warhammer and CK 2 is perfect match.

Thanks! We appreciate it.

 

[TheKiwi]

True. But with their nature in mind, another organizer-clone with a different name might be better. Controlling or something, which gives less impression of careful tactics and filling out all the paperwork.

"Scurry away" is the Army Book name for their ability to retreat faster than anyone else. A 10% movement in retreat bonus would handle that pretty well.

Meanwhile I will hang out for the 1st iteration of the mod so that Nordland can show those southern wimps that they are the best province - yeah that includes you Middenland/Middenheim, you're south of us.

 

[Enlil]

You could just make a character modifier?

 

[locustgate]

Unfortunately, the theme GW has going in both Warhammer universes means that the result of a massive campaign like Storm of Chaos should be a minor or negligible victory for the bad guys. That's probably the main reason why the Eye of Terror campaign hasn't been retconned yet and SoC has.

Actually it has been completely retconned. They even moved the 13th black crusade to 40999

 

[Isinfier]

From what I understand they've been trying to streamline the universes and add a sense of progression, in a sense. I remember people were a little confused when the Medusa Campaign turned out to be a few hundred years before the 13th Black Crusade.

 

[DarkReborn]

From what I understand they've been trying to streamline the universes and add a sense of progression, in a sense. I remember people were a little confused when the Medusa Campaign turned out to be a few hundred years before the 13th Black Crusade.

Are they? The 40k universe has been stuck in the "Time of Ending" since forever. Last reference I heard of it advancing was that the Emperor's life support system is starting to fail.

Good to know the Fantasy universe is moving on, they really needed to revisit Nagash after all that Storm of Chaos crap (Grimgor *not killing* Archaon all that stuff)

 

[Isinfier]

Are they? The 40k universe has been stuck in the "Time of Ending" since forever. Last reference I heard of it advancing was that the Emperor's life support system is starting to fail.

Good to know the Fantasy universe is moving on, they really needed to revisit Nagash after all that Storm of Chaos crap (Grimgor *not killing* Archaon all that stuff)

Canonically we're supposed to be into the 42nd Millennium, or something to that effect; it's been a while since I went into any of the stores and spoke to the staff, but from what I remember there's one or two recent novels set in the aftermath of the 13th Black Crusade.

And aye, fantasy could really do with some more love. Still upset that we lost Dogs of War as an official army list. It'd be nice to see Tilea or Estalia make an appearance, even as an expansion to the Empire rulings.