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Are there any submods that add in new or hypothetical religions (like Celtic/Norse/Slavic/Finnic Syncretic Christianity or African/Tengri Syncretic Islam?)
 

Gannayev

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And it's a cool exercise in historical "what if," but because it's entirely a "what if" it falls into that difficult grey area when it comes to inclusion in this mod, imo. My read on Guiscard, for instance, is that if he got the empire he would've done what he always did with the papacy, alternate browbeating and kowtowing to get what he wanted. Likely would've tried to revive the preeminence contest between a latin patriarch of Constantinople and the Pope as a way of furthering his independence and caused a schism along the way. Point is, we just can't say and I don't like copy-pasted flavor, it tends to lose its taste out of context.

I get that the Latin Empire is alluring, but that's mostly because it's a big ol' might-have-been. Maybe someone with a deeper background can offer something unique for it?
That's fair enough. I can't say it'd be a plausible inclusion without much suspension of disbelief, or at least an unhealthy stretch under those criteria.
 

bdbdbbbd

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Hi!

First of all, I absolutely love this mod and HIP in general, it's an incredible addition to the game.

I have a question about taxation during warfare - whenever I am at war, whether levies are raised or not, Feudal and Church taxation drop to zero (City taxes tend to remain). Is this intended? I can't find mention of it in the changelog or other documentation.

Thanks!
 

zijistark

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Hi!

First of all, I absolutely love this mod and HIP in general, it's an incredible addition to the game.

I have a question about taxation during warfare - whenever I am at war, whether levies are raised or not, Feudal and Church taxation drop to zero (City taxes tend to remain). Is this intended? I can't find mention of it in the changelog or other documentation.

Thanks!
If you're a primary participant in a war, and you have at least one army somewhere not on friendly soil, you'll get a temporary malus to how much your vassals pay in taxes until the end of the war. This was a [admittedly stopgap] measure to increase the cost / risk / challenge of war, as so fervently requested on these forums in the past.

It is merely a negative offset to your other laws which affect vassal taxation (i.e., the Obligations & Focus sliders for all 4 vassal classes-- feudal, republican, theocratic, and tribal), so if they're already not paying you much in taxes (i.e., feudal is the case here by default, since they pay jack in taxes at the default setting and still not all that much ever-- cities yield lots of tax both by default law settings and by design, so they'll tend to keep paying something, in contrast), you won't get anything from them when in such a personal war.

To counteract this, any of these would help:
- stockpile cash more carefully before undertaking a war
- establish better demesne income
- increase vassal obligations
- trade-off less levies for more taxes (vassal focus laws)
- business focus
- friendly prosperity faction
- lower Imperial Decay (if relevant)

I appreciate the effect quite a bit, myself, although I hope to be able to make war more risky in more clever ways in the future with the advent of some new scripting features.
 

greek strategos

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Just saw many changes were added to the latest beta.
Thanks Ziji.
 

tahlaskerssen

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Hi.

Excellent mod.

Any chances adding food economy?

The persians were what they were because they were in the most fertile region in the world. Rome became what it became because their first big conquest was sicly from the cartago empire. Sicily was the best food supply in europe. From there, they kept groing and carefully paying attention to rich provinces. In that time, rich provinces meant those with the best agriculture. There was a reason the apital was moved to constantinopla, the richest provinces were nearer there than nearer to rome.

It is a fact that the roman empire melted down when they lost the grain rich provinces to the vandals in africa. As pointed out by Chris Wickham and many others, thats what originally made everything colapse. Also, it destroyed mediterranean commerce.

Same happened to the eastern roman empire when they lost egypt to the arabs.

Rome went down from 500.000 to 60.000 habs. There should be some way to reflect this. Every history book about society, politics and war makes emphasis on the importance of having enough grain supplies. Rome was what it was because of sicily, tunez, egypt and levant incredible rich provinces.

They lost tunez, western empire collapsed. The lost egypt and syria, eastern started to collapse. Muslims were able to expand that big because their first conquests were those provinces. Thats why bagdad x1000 their population. There were actual revolts in egypt because the abasids where forcing grains into their capital.

A simple solution is to assing certain regions standard levels of food supply, and give special regions like sicily, egypt and tunez huge boosts. Holding those provinces should give big bonuses such as tax income and levies.

Of course, a mechanic should be made such as if your realm levies, including your vassal's, are over your realm supply limit, you get different type of penalties. That is a good way of preventing just random blobbing just because it makes you stronger the more you paint the map. That wasnt how history at all worked and it really bothers me.

Small nations were able to stand and rise as much armies as 3 times other nations because of food economy. That is the way its always been in history. Size really didnt matter, resources did. How well fed you could keep your country.

Levies should be based on the amount of food you can bring your country, not a base 1.3k because castle. A castle shoud only give maximum ammount of levies if you country is well fed, otherwise it should be half or whatever your countries food economy can afford.

It has to be dynamic. A region, lets say a recently conquered duchy, should be able to support 3k man by food, if its maximum levie size is 2k, then you have 1k extra food. The next time you conquer a, lets say, arid region with low food supply, it will help contribute to maixmize the levy size in that province.

adding baronies everywhere for extra standard levies when your realm was the same as always makes no sense at all, just because you have money.

Creating a barony is good, if you have extra food to support the men. A way to balance this is to actually make castles and buildings cheaper, since now to fully maximize their use you need also enough food supply.

Imagine if history was just about creating castles and suddenly 1k men for free, lol. My liege, it seems that everytime we build a castle suddenly one thousand man appear from nowhere. We should spam castles everywhere and then conquerer the world, easy.
 
Last edited:

Toa Kraka

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Any chances adding food economy?
An economy-focused submod is (vaguely) in development.
What are the planned features?

At the moment, much remains to be done in terms of research (and coding help) in order to fill in the ARLES framework. The finished product will include the following:

1) Economic Overhaul
- Simplified resource system based on local and regional geography lending local and possibly realm-wide benefits, with 7 base natural resources and up to 15 trade goods to be used from construction to producing beautiful tapestries to forging arms and armor.
- Simplified population system to simulate growth of major cities as well as economic growth, closely tied to the resource system. Watch as your cities grow on their own as your industries boom, but protect them well, as constant warring, sieges, and raids will drain your economy and cause your people to become weary or even revolt.
 

Toa Kraka

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The "revoked a title from me" opinion modifier (opinion_revoked_my_title, −60 for a hundred years) lasts much longer than the "granted a duchy to me" opinion modifier (opinion_granted_duchy, +60 for ten years). For a ruler who gradually revokes and re-grants duchies to change his vassal dukes' government from Feudal to Imperial, this leads to the following situation:

1. Feudal duke has +0 opinion toward emperor.
2. Emperor revokes duchy.* Duke, now count, has −60 opinion toward emperor.
3. Emperor re-grants duchy. Count, once more duke (or "minor viceroy"), once more has +0 opinion toward emperor.
4. Ten years later, duke's opinion toward emperor suddenly plummets back to −60.

Multiply this by the several dozen dukes that the typical Imperial emperor has as vassals, and rebellious factions start appearing out of nowhere ten or fifteen years after the titles were revoked. I feel as if this is a very weird result. It's been stated that vassals shouldn't calmly accept having their hereditary rights taken away--but is making them get angry about losing those rights only ten years after the fact, while they placidly acquiesce in the meantime, any better?

Maybe the "revoked a title from me" opinion modifier could be reduced in duration to ten years, but be increased in intensity to −120 or −180, so that the revocation can't be smoothed over by re-granting the title.

*The duke has only just inherited the duchy, so he hasn't had a chance to join a 4I faction and he has no inclination to refuse the revocation.
 

Maal

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While I know they weren't made by the HIP team, they are used in EMF I am wondering about the "rights to use" of the 4 combat traits (not the commander ones, those with the sword on them).

I am working on some martial societies and for the sake of future compatibility with HIP I'd rather use these 4 traits than make my owns. It would be silly to have 2 series of combat traits stacking with each others to absurd level. I only mean the traits themselves with their pictures, not any events related to them.
 
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Toa Kraka

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You may want to adjust or remove event 66110 ("My relative keeps asking me to press his claim for the glory of our dynasty.") in dynasty_events.txt (currently not edited by EMF). Currently, an AI character chooses to declare war based on his attributes and on his opinion of the proposed war target, with literally zero consideration of actual troop strength. This leads the AI to declare obviously-suicidal wars.
blah.png
I have literally ten times the troops of the Sunni Caliph (16,000 vs. 160,000), but he still decided to press his son's claim against me. Earlier in the same campaign, I was attacked several times by vassal dukes who had equally-minuscule chances of success.
 

zijistark

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The "revoked a title from me" opinion modifier (opinion_revoked_my_title, −60 for a hundred years) lasts much longer than the "granted a duchy to me" opinion modifier (opinion_granted_duchy, +60 for ten years). For a ruler who gradually revokes and re-grants duchies to change his vassal dukes' government from Feudal to Imperial, this leads to the following situation:

1. Feudal duke has +0 opinion toward emperor.
2. Emperor revokes duchy.* Duke, now count, has −60 opinion toward emperor.
3. Emperor re-grants duchy. Count, once more duke (or "minor viceroy"), once more has +0 opinion toward emperor.
4. Ten years later, duke's opinion toward emperor suddenly plummets back to −60.

Multiply this by the several dozen dukes that the typical Imperial emperor has as vassals, and rebellious factions start appearing out of nowhere ten or fifteen years after the titles were revoked. I feel as if this is a very weird result. It's been stated that vassals shouldn't calmly accept having their hereditary rights taken away--but is making them get angry about losing those rights only ten years after the fact, while they placidly acquiesce in the meantime, any better?

Maybe the "revoked a title from me" opinion modifier could be reduced in duration to ten years, but be increased in intensity to −120 or −180, so that the revocation can't be smoothed over by re-granting the title.

*The duke has only just inherited the duchy, so he hasn't had a chance to join a 4I faction and he has no inclination to refuse the revocation.
How about simply increasing the duration by which a vassal is pleased by a ducal grant? That actually used to be in EMF (and more for kingdom, etc.) and was pretty reasonable. It'd lessen the issue you astutely observe, although it wouldn't solve it per se. It might be in a sweet spot enough, though.

Alternately, I see a solution involving a) overriding the title revocation diplointeraction on_action to catch when hereditary titles are invoked by imperial lieges, and b) "fixing" the duration of their negative opinion modifier should & when they regain their title within some reasonable window of time to a much shorter period of pissed-off // slightly longer than how much they were pleased to get it.

While I know they weren't made by the HIP team, they are used in EMF I am wondering about the "rights to use" of the 4 combat traits (not the commander ones, those with the sword on them).

I am working on some martial societies and for the sake of future compatibility with HIP I'd rather use these 4 traits than make my owns. It would be silly to have 2 series of combat traits stacking with each others to absurd level. I only mean the traits themselves with their pictures, not any events related to them.
They actually were all made by the HIP Team. @AnaxXiphos in particular made them, but since he is now fighting for his life in the Wu Dang Mountains in a test of fury and spirituality, I'll give you permission to use those icons instead. Please credit AnaxXiphos & HIP/EMF along with your mod.

You may want to adjust or remove event 66110 ("My relative keeps asking me to press his claim for the glory of our dynasty.") in dynasty_events.txt (currently not edited by EMF). Currently, an AI character chooses to declare war based on his attributes and on his opinion of the proposed war target, with literally zero consideration of actual troop strength. This leads the AI to declare obviously-suicidal wars.
View attachment 302184
I have literally ten times the troops of the Sunni Caliph (16,000 vs. 160,000), but he still decided to press his son's claim against me. Earlier in the same campaign, I was attacked several times by vassal dukes who had equally-minuscule chances of success.
I'll have to investigate. Surely a _little_ AI reasoning about the realm_levy_diff is called for, that much is for sure. Also, do keep in mind that Caliphates are extremely aggressive, but yes, this event makes it worse.
 

Maal

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They actually were all made by the HIP Team. @AnaxXiphos in particular made them, but since he is now fighting for his life in the Wu Dang Mountains in a test of fury and spirituality, I'll give you permission to use those icons instead. Please credit AnaxXiphos & HIP/EMF along with your mod.
I had assumed they were part of the original duel engine mod (well, were they or not, it ain't changing the fact if AnaxXiphos made them). Thanks, it will avoid some weirdness whenever I start making SWMH/CK2plus holy orders societies at a later date.
 

Farbolo

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I had assumed they were part of the original duel engine mod (well, were they or not, it ain't changing the fact if AnaxXiphos made them). Thanks, it will avoid some weirdness whenever I start making SWMH/CK2plus holy orders societies at a later date.
It makes me very happy that you consider doing SWMH/CK2plus holy order societies further down the road :)
 

Harald Fairhair

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Would like to suggest that tribal council should be fully enpowered when having minimun tribal organization. This would reflect the limits of a chiefdans power wich was not absolute.
 

zijistark

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Would like to suggest that tribal council should be fully enpowered when having minimun tribal organization. This would reflect the limits of a chiefdans power wich was not absolute.
Unfortunately, AI tribes already have enough trouble as it is getting to Maximum TO. [Honestly, it's a problem I keep doing a little about and then forgetting, but this is one of the major issues in the game right now -- tribes not feudalizing eventually.] If their council laws are forced to be fully empowered at Minimal TO, then it will be much harder to recover / get over in the place Minimal TO.
 

Harald Fairhair

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Unfortunately, AI tribes already have enough trouble as it is getting to Maximum TO. [Honestly, it's a problem I keep doing a little about and then forgetting, but this is one of the major issues in the game right now -- tribes not feudalizing eventually.] If their council laws are forced to be fully empowered at Minimal TO, then it will be much harder to recover / get over in the place Minimal TO.
Then what about council don't get to vote on Tribal Organization?
 

Toa Kraka

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zijistark said:
EMF repo now uses LF-only and spaces in lieu of tabs (x4)
"What one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away." I foresee extensive use of Notepad++'s "Replace" dialog in my future...
 

mightnight

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Could you implement a rule which reverts the changes done to imprisonment? Specifically the one were you can freely move prisoners from house arrest to the oubliette etc. I would like to give the torture and mutilate a reason to be used instead of just putting my prisoners in the oubliette without paying any consequences from the reduced health created to them.
 

Toa Kraka

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the changes done to imprisonment? Specifically the one were you can freely move prisoners from house arrest to the oubliette
But that behavior wasn't changed from vanilla--you can do exactly the same thing without EMF.

If you want to edit the relevant decisions, they're in decisions/emf_prisoner_decisions.txt. (For comparison, the vanilla decisions are in decisions/vassal_decisions.txt.)
 

mightnight

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But that behavior wasn't changed from vanilla--you can do exactly the same thing without EMF.

If you want to edit the relevant decisions, they're in decisions/emf_prisoner_decisions.txt. (For comparison, the vanilla decisions are in decisions/vassal_decisions.txt.)
Thanks man!