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zijistark

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The win a war ambition just fulfilled on winning a crusade. I guess it doesn't apply to pressing de jure claims for my vassal dukes, then?

It's supposed to do so. Since every CB has to have its own logic for fulfilling the ambition and third-party CBs (pressing a claim for a vassal, e.g.) have twisted scopes, it's possible that I simply made a mistake in the other_dejure_county_claim CB then. I'll look into this immediately.

EDIT: Handled along with a few other finishing touches for the 2.1.6 branch of CKII.
 
Last edited:

zijistark

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As the release of Charlemagne approaches on the 14th, we've put together a hotfix release for HIP that addresses all known issues. It should be the last version of EMF for the CKII 2.1.6 branch, which we'll continue to make readily accessible until at least CKII 2.2.x (Charlemagne) is fully stable.

EMF 1.03 Changes:
  • (EMF+SWMH) Empire disintegration, for empires not dependent upon Constantinople, kicks in at the same realm size minimum as for the vanilla map (100 holdings)
  • FIX: Temporary revolt title dynamic levy laws now properly adjusted for faction size upon third-party claimant faction war declaration and immediately cleaned-up after the war (like all other types of faction revolts)
  • FIX: 'De Jure County Claim' CBs for counties already covered by a valid 'De Jure Duchy Claim' CB are no longer listed, as previously intended (minor)
  • FIX: Clarified requirements for attacking holy orders w/ SoA enabled for the ERE in third-party de jure claim CBs (minor)
  • FIX: Third-party CBs (e.g., pressing someone else's claim) should now properly fulfill the 'Win a War' ambition
 
Last edited:

DrewBledsoe

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@Ziji - Super Great Mod....one small point.

I only recently got all the DLCs and starting at 867 Ive seen the same thing in all games. By around 1050, all you basically ever get is Karling Cardinals and Popes. This is because the `famous dynasty factor` had been set at .1, whereas the Vanilla is .025. This means that by that time, the Karlings have say 5000-6000 prestige [and this is without a France even existing for over 100 yrs] Therefore every Karling bishop gets an auto 500-600 cardinal points. Its hard to fight that, even with specifically trained to be bishop guys, with grt traits. I've seen 23 yr old Karling Cardinals, because of this.

I humbly suggest putting it back down to around the vanilla .025.
 

zijistark

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@Ziji - Super Great Mod....one small point.

I only recently got all the DLCs and starting at 867 Ive seen the same thing in all games. By around 1050, all you basically ever get is Karling Cardinals and Popes. This is because the `famous dynasty factor` had been set at .1, whereas the Vanilla is .025. This means that by that time, the Karlings have say 5000-6000 prestige [and this is without a France even existing for over 100 yrs] Therefore every Karling bishop gets an auto 500-600 cardinal points. Its hard to fight that, even with specifically trained to be bishop guys, with grt traits. I've seen 23 yr old Karling Cardinals, because of this.

I humbly suggest putting it back down to around the vanilla .025.

Believe it or not, this (ELECTOR_TITLE_FAMOUS_DYNASTY = 1) was actually a nerf from PB. It's been lowered furthermore to 0.025 in the next release (today or the next day, I hope), though. Thanks.
 

wizardchakka

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Wanted to share some experiences and feedback while waiting for CM patches..after about 1600 hours playing CK2 I had started to drift away from the game, but release of EMF rekindled my interest in playing (dunno if that's good or bad considering the hours already wasted on this game, but hey ;D)

+1 on DrewBledsoe's point, after 8 karling popes in a row the joke gets old on TOG starts, especially when they control so many crowns. In my previous game, for over 100 years any wars in europe against independent realms lead to instant excommunications, excommunication wars and vassal trouble in addition to the karling blob pounding on me.

-Lucky ruler feature is absolutely great, no need for further nerfs imo

-about the child opinion modifier..I agree on the reasoning, but I think the effect is too big as it is. It now outweighs even several negative(congenital) traits combined which is not plausible imo. In my opinion it should be scaled down to +10 or +5. Or, make it regress/progress with the kids age, but seems too much work for marginal benefit. I also think its a bit funny that direct vassals have no problems with an underaged liege, but the moment he turns 16 negative teenager modifier kicks in (even more pronounced with courtiers ofc, from +15 to -10 all because of having that 16th birthday). In general I like the age modifiers though

-The peace pledge ambition brings so much to the table..simple addition like this, yet so many applications throughout the different phases of the game. Its such a good tool for "damn I really need a breather here"-situations.

-retinue nerf was good, they replenish so slow now that I often actually hesitate to use them as my universal tool ("what if that next door lucky ruler attacks soon and my retinues are badly depleted"?) Also the replenishment cost is _punishing_ when making a large retinue from scratch, which is very good. Leads to a realistic outcome where aggressive realms find that money is scarce for building projects. Perhaps the cost of raised personal levy could be upped just a bit as well?

-I dont know if it's possible to do this, but I'd like the councillors to be able to remove FoW in adjacent duchies/2-3 counties away from controlled provinces. I get the MP aspect of this change, but I dont think its unrealistic to be able to scout nearby provinces with councillors

-empire disintegration is nice, although I've only seen it happen to ERE a few times. If Rum gets formed, its most likely the beginning of the end for ERE.

-mixed feelings about the de jure duchy claim cb. its great for the AI, especially because it fixes border gore nicely and makes de jure claims more dangerous for the player. In the hands of a player however I feel it may be a bit OP, especially in the case of large duchies. If there's one CB that should be restricted with traits, this is it (for players). Internal peace is almost a constant in my games though so this may be subjective.

-AI feels more threatening now with the CB restrictions removed. One thing I kind of miss is the "no betrothals to close relatives"-restriction though. Its silly to be able to wage war against a realm that you have pledged a future dynastic alliance with. If possible, at least make it so that doing this breaks the betrothal and grants such a large negative modifier that it wont be possible to re-betrothe after the war.

Just my 2 cents here. Most important thing however is that EMF increased the fun factor of my CK2 games by quite a lot, much appreciation to the work you have done.

:: Ahh one last thing, I really miss a method for increasing cultural spread speed in particular provinces, maybe a steward job action or something?
 

G.Strategos

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:: Ahh one last thing, I really miss a method for increasing cultural spread speed in particular provinces, maybe a steward job action or something?
Yep.
Plus one...;)
 

zijistark

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Wanted to share some experiences and feedback while waiting for CM patches..after about 1600 hours playing CK2 I had started to drift away from the game, but release of EMF rekindled my interest in playing (dunno if that's good or bad considering the hours already wasted on this game, but hey ;D)
I'm right there with you. I mod, because I love this game, but I mod primarily for the intermediate to experienced player who expects more from CKII at this point in its lifecycle.

+1 on DrewBledsoe's point

[Dynasty prestige mattering too much for Papal Preferatus] Yep, addressed already in current CM patch work.

-Lucky ruler feature is absolutely great, no need for further nerfs imo

Cool. Thanks for this kind of feedback; most people assume we know that we're releasing stuff that people enjoy, but somebody does have to tell us specifically when stuff is working out nicely.

-about the child opinion modifier..I agree on the reasoning, but I think the effect is too big as it is. It now outweighs even several negative(congenital) traits combined which is not plausible imo. In my opinion it should be scaled down to +10 or +5. Or, make it regress/progress with the kids age, but seems too much work for marginal benefit.

I'll make it +10 in the next release then. I thought +15 might have been a bit too liberal. +10 seems to model the "Ah, but it's a kid." factor. Progression/regression with age would be too resource-intensive for the benefit, spot-on.

I also think its a bit funny that direct vassals have no problems with an underaged liege, but the moment he turns 16 negative teenager modifier kicks in (even more pronounced with courtiers ofc, from +15 to -10 all because of having that 16th birthday). In general I like the age modifiers though

Let's change that. I'll add an equivalent to the Teenager modifier to direct vassals of underaged lieges. Anymore than that and regencies are going to be total hell. But, hey, Pledge Peace is a strategic help for regencies. EMF giveth and taketh.

-The peace pledge ambition brings so much to the table..simple addition like this, yet so many applications throughout the different phases of the game. Its such a good tool for "damn I really need a breather here"-situations.

That really pleases me that you say as much. It's a simple ambition, but like most of the core ambitions I want to add to EMF, it has myriad strategic value in addition to role-playing value or the value of simply always having a realistic ambition selected. Any other such unique ambitions that you'd like to see? I'm mostly interested in ambitions which at least affect the chances or likelihood of a desired outcome occurring, or even better, have nontrivial strategic value.

retinue nerf was good, they replenish so slow now that I often actually hesitate to use them as my universal tool ("what if that next door lucky ruler attacks soon and my retinues are badly depleted"?) Also the replenishment cost is _punishing_ when making a large retinue from scratch, which is very good. Leads to a realistic outcome where aggressive realms find that money is scarce for building projects. Perhaps the cost of raised personal levy could be upped just a bit as well?

Yep, retinues in general were too much of a player advantage. They were also previously not modeled plausibly. I mean, come on, it was almost two times faster to reinforce-in-the-field professional soldiers than just press more peasants into levies back at home? Now you have to think about retinues, on a few levels. And they really aren't always the best place to put your money; it really depends. Meanwhile, the player and AI are on a much more even playing field.

I dont know if it's possible to do this, but I'd like the councillors to be able to remove FoW in adjacent duchies/2-3 counties away from controlled provinces. I get the MP aspect of this change, but I dont think its unrealistic to be able to scout nearby provinces with councillors

We can only lift FoW in the target province and in the provinces that neighbor it (and will only do the latter for the spymaster). Since our feature which demanded the ability to instantly redeploy a councillor on the map (e.g., while paused) was actually implemented in a different way, we can theoretically go back to non-instantaneous redeployment, thus removing the multiplayer exploit if councillors reveal FoW again.

empire disintegration is nice, although I've only seen it happen to ERE a few times. If Rum gets formed, its most likely the beginning of the end for ERE.

I will be weakening Rum in future updates to ensure that an Alexiad start has pretty decent odds of Byzantium retaking territory and not losing Constantinople for at least another 150 years. This will be a difficult balance.

-mixed feelings about the de jure duchy claim cb. its great for the AI, especially because it fixes border gore nicely and makes de jure claims more dangerous for the player. In the hands of a player however I feel it may be a bit OP, especially in the case of large duchies. If there's one CB that should be restricted with traits, this is it (for players). Internal peace is almost a constant in my games though so this may be subjective.

Oh, in all of our games, Internal Peace is never passed (until now, sometimes), so we figured that'd be decent enough reason to encourage players to pass it. As you say, the CB is very effective for the AI at cleaning up border gore and posing more of a risk to the player, but we will definitely have to watch how powerful this CB is in the hands of players. It is possible that we could require the Full King's Peace or Internal + Harsh Crown Levies (which are going to get re-worked) OR Internal + Protected Inheritance OR Internal + Free Infidel Revocation. Traits are also an option, but still, if the player has the trait, they don't have to make a strategic trade-off in order to be able to use the CB-- they just get to do so automatically for being so lucky. I prefer strategic trade-offs if possible.

AI feels more threatening now with the CB restrictions removed. One thing I kind of miss is the "no betrothals to close relatives"-restriction though. Its silly to be able to wage war against a realm that you have pledged a future dynastic alliance with. If possible, at least make it so that doing this breaks the betrothal and grants such a large negative modifier that it wont be possible to re-betrothe after the war.

This is actually a vanilla requirement, so I'm not sure why it's not working for you. We can't actually mod that.

Just my 2 cents here. Most important thing however is that EMF increased the fun factor of my CK2 games by quite a lot, much appreciation to the work you have done.

Thanks for taking the time to say so! Modding is a little thankless compared to the effort that goes into it, and it's really motivating to hear that EMF has increased the fun factor of your games a lot. Stay Tuned™.

:: Ahh one last thing, I really miss a method for increasing cultural spread speed in particular provinces, maybe a steward job action or something?

Yep.
Plus one...;)

It'd have to be slow still. No magic culture flipping. OTOH, I'm not opposed to trying to fit a 'Force Province to Assimilate Liege Culture' job action event into things-- yeah, probably into the job_steward family.

Update on CM patching:

We are struggling with a couple 'Adapting History' problems with SWMH right now, but PB, EMF, and mostly SWMH are compatched (though SWMH shall not feature a 769 start) along with experimental support for NBRT+ (which we really don't know what we're doing with, honestly, since EOOQE is gone, and I'm no graphics modder).
 

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Oh cool! Will there be a partial release or are you folks waiting until SWMH is ready?
 

zijistark

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Oh cool! Will there be a partial release or are you folks waiting until SWMH is ready?

SWMH is now ready (or was, several hours ago). As we haven't heard from Arko yet and last we did hear he might be a week behind, we will probably do a partial release of everything but ARKOPack and then follow it up with a load of bugfixes/tweaks and the additional, full release of ARKOPack in about a week. This is all being determined ad hoc within the team right now, so that's as much information as I can presently give.

If nothing unexpected happens, we should be serving EMF both with and without SWMH by tomorrow ideally (the 15th), when the whole team has had a chance to communicate. SWMH will lack tribal settlements initially (as well as the 769 start itself, about which they've stated there's simply not enough real history from which to build a historical start), so both maps have their advantages depending upon the fix for which you're looking.

Estimate on the ETA of the next patch?

See above.
 

zijistark

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A new version of EMF has been released. As you can tell from the incremented major version (moved from 1.XX to 2.XX) and may guess from the Charlemagne DLC, it is not compatible with past EMF saves. This should be the last such save-incompatible release until the next major CKII DLC.

See this thread for details on the whole HIP release.

EMF 2.0 Changes:
  • Updated to CKII 2.2 and added support for all of the Charlemagne (CM) DLC content
  • As promised, with the advent of CM, decadence has returned! Woe!
  • In approval of 2.2's changes, EMF and vanilla now have an identical retinue model
    • Cost is a bit higher than previously, although it's very close in nature to the prior EMF model
  • AI prisoners will essentially never request better accomodations if you're at war
  • Spymaster 'Study Technology' job action now fires less frequently and doesn't scale as well with spymaster intrigue skill
  • Crusades now unlock if either the province owner OR his top liege aren't Christian for Braunschweig, Cologne, Paris, Toulouse, and Provence
  • Rulers less likely to declare independence from their religious head if the religion has at least 40% authority
  • Research points 'ahead penalty' raised to 40% per level beyond ideal year (previously 30%)
  • Children are now only inherently liked by +10 opinion (except when they're a liege) rather than +15 opinion
  • While doing a sweep for consistency and completeness for the 2.2 patch:
    • The Anti-King Faction should now be prioritized in realms where an antipope is installed
    • 'Coastal County Republic' CB is now open to Muslims if the defender is also a Muslim
    • 'Coastal County Republic' CB may now only be used upon provinces that are adjacent or up to 2 sea zones away from the attacker
    • 'Duchy Adventure' CB toned-down a bit (minor)
    • Can no longer ask to join a war being waged with the 'Pagan County Conquest' CB
    • When subjugating rulers directly, the 'Tribal Invasion' CB now appropriately applies 'Subjugated' or 'Subjugated by Same Religion' opinion modifiers
    • AI behavioral guidelines added to many CBs to improve AI war declaration plausibility
    • FIX: Though it should have been released with Rajas of India, one may now wage war with the 'Buddhist Holy War' CB
    • FIX: Pressing another's claim now always earns the correct opinion modifier (not de jure claims, which were fine-- personal claims)
    • FIX: Claimant faction wars or otherwise pressing a third party's claim on your liege now properly respects the cooldown on [forced] loss of Crown Authority
    • FIX: Merchant Republic AIs should now use their CBs more effectively
    • FIX: Duke- or higher-tier vassals can choose independence after a successful tribal invasion (yep, decadence invasions are back for now)
    • FIX: A number of achievements that were previously not fulfilled when their conditions were met are now properly fulfilled [NOTE: We still don't encourage Ironman]
  • Due to a bug that breaks triggered modifiers in patch 2.2:
    • The ERE's 'Disorganized' triggered modifier that lasts from 1066-1081 no longer exists (non-critical malus to army morale and morale recovery rate)
    • Decentralized HRE and Themes System laws have been refactored as demesne laws rather than crown laws (superior approach, so net win)
  • FIX: Weather module would sometimes fail to apply or regionally spread a province modifier for Heavy Rains
  • FIX: Drunkard trait no longer treated as if it were charitable or diligent trait (vanilla bugs)
 

G.Strategos

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If nothing unexpected happens, we should be serving EMF both with and without SWMH by tomorrow ideally (the 15th), when the whole team has had a chance to communicate. SWMH will lack tribal settlements initially (as well as the 769 start itself, about which they've stated there's simply not enough real history from which to build a historical start), so both maps have their advantages depending upon the fix for which you're looking.
It's a pity..I would really like to start at 769 with SWMH on...
 

dskod1

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zijistark

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It's a pity..I would really like to start at 769 with SWMH on...
I know... but there's only so much history, and I respect that.

We definitely need to get the tribal settlements from vanilla ported into the SWMH provinces ASAP, though. This is relevant in 867 and even 1066. Right now, SWMH is pretty much there so that you don't lose the very pretty and deep map if you aren't super-interested in playing as a CM tribe right now.

I'm going to "loan" Think0028 to SWMH to get these tribals ported ASAP and will probably help in the effort myself. SWMH is extremely underpowered right now, between Elvain getting worked hard IRL and Aasmul finishing an academic paper until mid-late November. Think0028 should be able to lend a lot of fastidious productivity to them. I consider getting tribal settlements ported to the current SWMH to be much higher priority than India.
 

G.Strategos

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I know... but there's only so much history, and I respect that.

We definitely need to get the tribal settlements from vanilla ported into the SWMH provinces ASAP, though. This is relevant in 867 and even 1066. Right now, SWMH is pretty much there so that you don't lose the very pretty and deep map if you aren't super-interested in playing as a CM tribe right now.

I'm going to "loan" Think0028 to SWMH to get these tribals ported ASAP and will probably help in the effort myself. SWMH is extremely underpowered right now, between Elvain getting worked hard IRL and Aasmul finishing an academic paper until mid-late November. Think0028 should be able to lend a lot of fastidious productivity to them. I consider getting tribal settlements ported to the current SWMH to be much higher priority than India.

I strongly agree with you mate...tribal settlements are essential indeed...
Cheers...
 

Cardinal Sin

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I agree too; tribes were the best thing introduced in the newest patch by far, and it would be a pity if we were to lose out on them if we play on SWMH :)

BTW I see decadence has been restored. Ho-hum :p
 

Auvar

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I recently installed HIP after being away from CK2 for a while. I'm not yet on the new CM version/patch. My understanding is that the "weather effects" (mild winters, coastal flooding, etc.) are a property of EMF, and I've got a bit of an issue with them.

(I haven't delved into the event or game files, so this is merely based on my observations, which could very well be wrong. I'm not an expert!)

Many of the weather effects decrease or increase garrison and levy size. While this seems sensible at first glance, it creates a perverse effect when combined with how garrisons and levies work in CK2. In particular, a province can't have levies while its garrison is not full. If, for some reason, the garrison ceases to be full while levies remain, levies are moved to the garrison until either the garrison is full or there are no more levies. Conversely, a garrison that becomes over-full appears to push those excess men into the levy.

Let's say I have a province with a garrison of 500/500 and a levy of 250/500. I can raise 250 troops at the moment. Now I get a nice weather event that increases garrison and levy sizes by 10%. What happens?

The garrison increases to 550, as does the levy - leaving me with 500/550 garrison and 250/550 levy. But remember, the garrison must always be full when possible - so the garrison immediately draws 50 men from the levy. This leaves me with 550/550 garrison and 200/550 levy - instead being able to raise 250 troops, I can now only muster 200. In short, while the good weather event does increase my maximum levy capacity, its immediate effect is to cut the amount of troops I can raise because they're needed to fill the newly boosted garrison. In the long run, this might be good, because a max of 550 is better than a max of 500 - but weather events are always short-lived, so I seldom get the chance to actually realize that larger levy capacity.

The reverse happens with bad weather events - when the garrison gets smaller, men from the garrison appear to be forced into the levy. If I'm already at max levy capacity, this does indeed decrease my troops available, but if my levy isn't full it will actually give me more troops by re-allocating garrison troops into the levy (because the garrison has shrunk).

I assume that the intent of this mod was not to make bad weather give you more troops and good weather give you fewer troops, but as it stands that is what the weather events actually do. As it stands, the best time to declare war on an enemy is when they are enjoying a mild winter or other favorable weather event.

The easiest fix for this would be to make weather events no longer change garrison size, only levy size. This still wouldn't do much - weather events tend to be too short-lived for levies to actually increase to fill their new maximum, in my experience - but it would at least avoid the strange results mentioned above. (Personally, I don't think it's worth it to make weather events have any effect on garrisons or levies.)

I think you mentioned earlier that the new seasonal effects in Charlemagne (which I haven't looked at) would make you reconsider the weather effect system, so it's possible my observations are already obsolete - you may have something else in mind. Nevertheless, I thought I'd point this out so you'd be aware of it in whatever weather system you eventually end up implementing in the post-CM version of the mod.

Thanks.
 

zijistark

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I agree too; tribes were the best thing introduced in the newest patch by far, and it would be a pity if we were to lose out on them if we play on SWMH :)

BTW I see decadence has been restored. Ho-hum :p

I've been playing a test Ibadi Muslim game with EMF+SWMH, and I've found decadence to be pretty reasonable (been watching all the other big dynasties too). I think that I may make a modification to Paradox's added CB for usurping a decadent dynasty member's primary title, though: namely, it ought to remove that dynasty member's Decadent trait too upon success. If they don't straighten up, they will probably earn it again, but the cooldown before the trait is again awarded makes a lot of sense for making decadence less random and more plausible to manage.

Note, however, that I did not restore PB's old decadence-related modifiers for the claimant faction or the independence faction (e.g., in PB, vassals will NEVER join an independence faction against a liege with dynasty decadence lower than 25%, which IMNSHO is nonsensical).

Decadence's return does not at all mean that EMF isn't paying attention to Muslims, though. [In fact, I'm having a really good time in this Ibadi game, and the Islamic world has been totally chaotic-- Sunni is taking a serious beating, and the Fatimids broke into a thousand pieces that then promptly reassembled. This was a 1066 start.]

I recently installed HIP after being away from CK2 for a while. I'm not yet on the new CM version/patch. My understanding is that the "weather effects" (mild winters, coastal flooding, etc.) are a property of EMF, and I've got a bit of an issue with them.

-snip-

You make a decent point about garrison_size modifiers. They'd mostly only matter if you were literally at war at the time, which was the thought behind it (your land gets sieged faster). However, this could be better simulated by a fort_level malus whenever there would have been a garrison_size malus. Levy size modifiers matter very much in many more situations than those listed and with additional, intentional side effects.

Levy reinforce rate is obviously an even more direct modifier of the short-term effects of levy_size modifiers, not including the very important cases where the seasonal effects are taking place in the middle of a war or troops are reinforcing. The weather system also affects supply_limit and max_attrition as well as taxes and local troop movement speed. Local movement speed modifiers due to weather have been known to turn wars and allow stacks to be trapped and destroyed in our own games.

CM's "weather" is static. It occurs in a fixed set of provinces with the exact same effect (which is only supply_limit and max_attrition) every same day of every year in the same province. It only includes three levels of effect.

The two systems complement each other nicely, but CM's "weather" system is more of a cosmetic feature than EMF's weather system isn't a complex and dynamic regional myriad seasonal effect system.
 

G.Strategos

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I'm still playing Pre CM version of HIP.
I'll wait till CM gets a decent patch from P.I

I'd like to make a point about the size of armies the small centralized kingdoms are able to rise...
They are most of the times huge...
At the start of the game Castille in a war with Leon was able to field 7000 me...(too much for me)
I'm not sure if this feature is only for AI???
Cause I always play at Very Hard...
Sometimes I think the game is quite easy for seasoned players,especially with that kind of armies...

Cheers...
 

antidualist

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Decadence's return does not at all mean that EMF isn't paying attention to Muslims, though. [In fact, I'm having a really good time in this Ibadi game, and the Islamic world has been totally chaotic-- Sunni is taking a serious beating, and the Fatimids broke into a thousand pieces that then promptly reassembled. This was a 1066 start.

I seem to remember before there was talk of a special muslim CB to aid the reformation of large realms after a previous realm dissolved due to decadence or overextension. Is this still on the cards?