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Korbah

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I think that if you change a kids culture by event that changes, but that might have been a bug in earlier versions. If not, maybe graphical culture [which is what youre talking about] might be changeable by event, probably not but ive never tried so who knows.
However is suspect that if you cant change graphic culture by event, then it also cant be used as a trigger, so you couldnt cull the graphically confused anyway. In which case really the only thing to do would be either use traits to defined graphics for beast-races [have an argonian trait that replaces the whole portrait with a static argonian picture] which would be clumsy but a last resort, or beg of Paradox to include in their next patch the ability for events to read and change graphical culture.

Since we already have an argonian portrait set, just changing to using an overlay would be taking a step backwards. Right now, killing off abominations doesn't really affect gameplay a whole lot to be honest.
 

Orinsul

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Since we already have an argonian portrait set, just changing to using an overlay would be taking a step backwards. Right now, killing off abominations doesn't really affect gameplay a whole lot to be honest.

How will you identify the abominations?
That was kind of the point, there arent defines for makings events that can recognise or alter graphical culture. So unless youre planning on hand firing the kill events everytime the game gives the wrong graphical culture to a character, how might it work?


Probably the only workable solution right now would be to ignore it. Say that if a character looks argonian but has the Bosmer culture and racial trait, then thats an argonian who by being raised bosmer lives and acts like them despite his appearance. As currently with the mechanics theres not much to do.
As a said before, unless Graphical Culture is able to be touched by events, it cant be modded. And i suspect as it was a late addition, it cant be.
 
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Meneth

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I don't think there's any way for someone to get the wrong graphical culture as long as you kill off any 'abominations'. To my knowledge you have to have at least one ancestor of that graphical culture for it to be possible.
 

Spartanlemur

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How are you going to deal with crossbreeding? I know that men and mer can mate in the lore, with the child always bearing the mothers' race/dna, but these cannot produce offspring with beastial races or orsimer. Have you found a way to account for this, in some way or form (perhaps even blocking all crossbreeding)?
 

richvh

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In the discussion of one mod (don't remember if it was this one or another) a proposed solution for crossbreeding was to set the max pregnancy age to 16 in defines.lua (so the engine would not automatically generate children), and having all pregnancies be by event, with the triggers set so that mixed marriages would not produce children.
 

Mr. Capiatlist

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In the discussion of one mod (don't remember if it was this one or another) a proposed solution for crossbreeding was to set the max pregnancy age to 16 in defines.lua (so the engine would not automatically generate children), and having all pregnancies be by event, with the triggers set so that mixed marriages would not produce children.
Or that you'd have total control over the race and culture of the children.
 

Orinsul

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I don't think there's any way for someone to get the wrong graphical culture as long as you kill off any 'abominations'. To my knowledge you have to have at least one ancestor of that graphical culture for it to be possible.

Define abomination.

If you mean, any child of mix-race parents. then i agree with you, its be clumsy and awkward and cause other problems but itd do the trick.
However, if you mean any child with different graphical culture than actual culture, then as far as i can see, its mechanically impossible and if it wasnt then itd be possible to have events to set culture to match graphical culture.

Or just go with event only pregnancy between appropraite parents, but im pretty sure thats already been ruled out as a solution in an early discussion unless minds have moved.

Another really complicated way, would be to kill the child and remove its parent entries and dynasty so it wouldnt show up on the tree, then generate a new culture and set its parents/culture/everything by event. As the AGOT mod does with people coming back from presumed death. However itd be really complicated and probably have technical issues along with it and probably cause the ID rate to double.
 

richvh

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You could also have low MTTH events for miscarriage during pregnancies resulting from mixed couples, or give them traits after birth that almost guarantee infant mortality.
 

xking

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Notes on Racial Phylogeny and Biology(book in the game)

Author: Council of Healers, Imperial University
Notes on Racial Phylogeny and Biology,

Seventh Edition

by the Council of Healers,Imperial University



After much analysis of living specimens, the Council long ago determined that all "races" of elves and humans may mate with each other and bear fertile offspring. Generally the offspring bear the racial traits of the mother, though some traces of the father's race may also be present. It is less clear whether the Argonians and Khajiit are interfertile with both humans and elves. Though there have been many reports throughout the Eras of children from these unions, as well as stories of unions with daedra, there have been no well documented offspring. Khajiit differ from humans and elves not only their skeletal and dermal physiology -- the "fur" that covers their bodies -- but their metabolism and digestion as well. Argonians, like the dreugh, appear to be a semi-aquatic troglophile form of humans, though it is by no means clear whether the Argonians should be classified with dreugh, men, mer, or (in this author's opinion), certain tree-dwelling lizards in Black Marsh.

The reproductive biology of orcs is at present not well understood, and the same is true of goblins, trolls, harpies, dreugh, tsaesci, imga, various daedra and many others. Certainly, there have been cases of intercourse between these "races," generally in the nature of rape or magickal seduction, but there have been no documented cases of pregnancy. Still the interfertility of these creatures and the civilized hominids has yet to be empirically established or refuted, likely due to the deep cultural differences. Surely any normal Bosmer or Breton impregnated by an orc would keep that shame to herself, and there's no reason to suppose that an orc maiden impregnated by a human would not be likewise ostracized by her society. Regrettably, our oaths as healers keep us from forcing a coupling to satisfy our scientific knowledge. We do know, however, that the sload of Thras are hermaphrodites in their youth and later reabsorb their reproductive organs once they are old enough to move about on land. It can be safely assumed that they are not interfertile with men or mer.

One might further wonder whether the proper classification of these same "races," to use the imprecise but useful term, should be made from the assumption of a common heritage and the differences between them have arisen from magickal experimentation, the manipulations of the so-called "Earth Bones," or from gradual changes from one generation to the next.
 

Orinsul

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The issue at hand isnt lore, but game mechanics and what its possible to mod and what the game does or doesnt allow events to be triggered by or effect.
 

WildPeacock

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So, when there will be the next dev diary?

I posted it for evaluation in our Development's forum and it should be up tomorrow.

Normally Rallas would do this but he is busy with real life events.
 

Morrowind3

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OH.
MY.
GOD.
You sir, Have ALL of my support for this mod!
Well, Not like I'm useful enough to provide any support, But the gesture matters. ;D
 

FoX111

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Cant wait for it. I'd buy the game again just for this mod.
 

WildPeacock

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DEVELOPMENT DIARY 5

Inhospitable and mysterious Argonia! Homeland of the reptilian people know as Argonians and their tree-overlords, the Hist. This region encompasses all of Black Marsh, the Imperial pejorative for the region and its coastal islands.

During the present period (and most of its history actually) Argonia is divided between five fierce tribes that constantly fight among themselves over some small swampland territory. This is not a land of great Colovian Kings or powerful Breton Dukes but a land of Chiefs and Matrons.

Political division:
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4144/2012090700001n.jpg

Each tribe has its own unique culture and traditions, those differences generate much instability in the region and are responsible for most conflicts. But not everything is bad for the Argonians! While they may be divided politically and culturally they are extremely united religiously; they have the only region without heresies or internal schisms.

Cultural and Religious division:
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8480/2012090700002v.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2456/2012090700003.jpg

Interesting Characters:

Agaceph Tribe: Being the biggest tribe in Argonia makes High Chief Asum a perfect character to expand your realm with the objective of forming the infamous Kingdom of Argonia. Your biggest adversity will be the foreign invasions by the united Dunmer and the not-so-united Nibenese. To say nothing of the cultural jest that is Argonia and the big threat represented by the fast-expanding Paatru Tribe in the south.

High Chief Asum Aleut: http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6990/2012090700006m.jpg

Count of Riverbridge: As the only Mer to hold land in Argonia, Count Rindral has the protection of House Dres and Resdayn to backup his enslaving excursions against the pesky Argonian tribes. His only worry will be if Resdayn faces intern problems and the argonians decide that they want their lands back.

Count Rindral Nerano: http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/1720/2012090700005d.jpg

Duke of Stormhold: Tenmar Caro! Illustrious descendant of the Caro Dynasty! Infamous constructor of the Argonian-whipping place known Tenmar Wall! After years of battle he and his mercs finally conquered the Stormhold Duchy from those reptilian salvages and, with care, may be able to conquer all of Argonia and establish himself as King. That is... If the Nibenese, or the Argonians themselves, don't conquer his lands first.

Duke Tenmar Caro: http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9426/2012090700007.jpg

OBS: To anyone curious, or that wants to know a little bit more of the Lore, the Culture names were taken from the famous book series called "The Argonian Account". In the book those names referred to Argonians tribes/races.

OBS²: None of the portraits are in their final version.
 
Last edited:

Straigthtsilver

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The Argonian and Dunmer portraits are incredible! My excitement for this mod just increased tenfold after this Dev Diary.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to marry a race that you cannot produce children with to form an alliance? Obviously this would be a terrible idea if you don't have any heirs, but could be useful if your ruler is of advanced age and with several children already.
 

WildPeacock

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The Argonian and Dunmer portraits are incredible! My excitement for this mod just increased tenfold after this Dev Diary.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to marry a race that you cannot produce children with to form an alliance? Obviously this would be a terrible idea if you don't have any heirs, but could be useful if your ruler is of advanced age and with several children already.

Well, as I don't know if it's possible to us to limit marriage itself, I believe it will be free. ;D

Nevertheless we will try to discourage NPC inter-racial marriages for the sake of gameplay. We have thought about a "Divorce" event when your child dies at birth because of the whole "incompatibility" thing.
 
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