[MOD]Crackdtoothgrin's Data-Driven Map

[Keanon]

I'll fix the problem. I already know what it is. Can't promise an upload until tonight or tomorrow. Just a topology problem.

Can I suggest adding an alternative topology map without cutting out the water? It makes lakes in higher altitudes so ugly, i'd honestly rather be without the waves

 

[Keanon]

Absolutely beautiful. Unfortunately i too won't be able to use the default map until I upgrade in a month or so, but I did have one suggestion. The province Zjolmo makes an "arm" into Bavaria/Austria that looks very odd, both on the political map (in starts where Bohemia/Great Moravia controls the province) and on the culture map (since it's bohemian culture). Would it be possible to cut off the part of Zjolmo south of the Danube and attach it to another province? I think it would look better, even if it means some of the holdings in the province are inaccurate.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that, after playing for awhile, the positions file for the small version is really bad. Cities and councilors aren't a big deal but in a lot of places it's impossible to tell which province an army is actually in, which is a real problem for gameplay. I know it probably isn't a priority but if it could get a better position file, even if it just places armies properly in provinces, it would be appreciated.

Placing the armies takes the same time as placing the rest. We're talking probably close to 50, if not 100 hours. If you want it you'll probably have to do it yourself. It helps to know though, that positions are by default at the very northernmost point of every province.

 

[Palfouri]

Placing the armies takes the same time as placing the rest. We're talking probably close to 50, if not 100 hours. If you want it you'll probably have to do it yourself. It helps to know though, that positions are by default at the very northernmost point of every province.

Really? I started doing it myself on your advice, and honestly it only took me about a half hour to fix army positions in Europe and North Africa with Nudge. You probably know more about map modding than I do, though, so maybe I'm missing something.

That said, I'm still working on it, and I can upload it when it's done if anyone wants it.

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

Really? I started doing it myself on your advice, and honestly it only took me about a half hour to fix army positions in Europe and North Africa with Nudge. You probably know more about map modding than I do, though, so maybe I'm missing something.

That said, I'm still working on it, and I can upload it when it's done if anyone wants it.

I'm on mobile, so my response will be brief, but I would not mind linking an updated positions file of you make one. The mod is still in alpha, so I expect a lot of tweaking over the next few weeks while I finish things up.

The positions fixing process definitely can vary in time depending on your level of accuracy. I plan on having them realistically-placed and operate on a weaker gaming rig than many in here, and don't anticipate it being fast. Beyond the placement there is also rotation and height to consider.

To other commenters: Please keep the comments rolling. Beyond the empty files that I need to create/fix: I am open to suggestions. The whole Austria/Znojmo thing is a point of contention, since that whole region in vanilla is f***ed, for lack of a better word. I may just revert to putting it back up in Moravia and having an ugly Austria instead.

 

[Ciccillo Rre]

Crackd', I congratulate with you. The map looks simply pure awesomeness, and I have few words to describe how much I have been impressed. This is excellent work and deserves great appraisal. In addition, it addresses so many of those small little issues that have annoyed me since game launch with province placement and borders (especially in Northern Italy, Eastern Anatolia, the Holy Land as well as other areas). Finally, a brief test of one in-game year showed no speed difference when using this mod, and I am the one who complained here. Thank you.

Unfortunately, I doubt Paradox will want to integrate this into the basic version of the game: there are too many small, almost-unrecognizable provinces (Venice, Malta, Ragusa, Kleve, Hamburg, Derbent etc.) and the devs hate them for the sake of accessibility. They are right in their own way; still I want your map by all means for use in mods. I hope I am wrong about Paradox anyways.

Back to the topic. Your map is pure awesomeness and I am seriously considering to change the spirit of my mod and transform it into one that is specifically tailored at your map (if you want we can collaborate on the matter.) But before this, there are some small issues with province borders that I think need to be addressed in the Vanilla version, but I need time and screenshots for me to show and motivate these issues to you in detail. I reserve to do this as soon as possible. Of all of them, the Znojmo province problem - mentioned above by Palfouri - is probably the first and foremost, and I am not sure what the appropriate solution is.

Before I address issues that are specific of some provinces and/or areas, let me list few problems with the current version.

- The minimap on the right-bottom corner of the screen is missing.

- The game opens by showing the West Sahara part of the map. This is very negligible but at the same time not really desirable.

- There are no cities on the map and the center of each province - I mean where CoAs are displayed - is for all of them in its northernmost and westernmost possible point (if I understand correctly). I believe that you are aware of these issues as you write in your readme file but, at present, this problem alone makes the map unplayable for me.

- I haven't had the time to test it, but what are your plans about navigable rivers? In Vanilla, they always work as province borders and troops can unload on either side; but in your map these revers seem to often cut provinces through. Does it mean that troops can only unload in one province in some cases? I would approve the idea but this has an important gameplay effect (some provinces would become riskier than others).

- India is very weird to see, and I believe that playing in Bengala or Deccan would feel very unnatural unless one gets really used to it. I understand it's too late to change matters but I would like to know what was the reason for the choice of this projection (Vinland maybe?). Also, what will happen if the game is extended to China (hopefully not)? While the Vanilla map may accommodate China somewhat fine, how would you feel about changing your map? (A very hypothetical question I know).

 

[SBolshevik]

There's elevated land in the White Sea, like between the Peloponnese and Asia Minor:

EDIT: Also the case with most of the lakes in Karelia, it seems.

 

[exin]

Hey Crack! Map is looking more and more awesome ^^.

Here's a small map about the Romanian Principalities and what their limits were.
http://static.elefant.ro/images/73/...pana-la-mijlocul-secolului-xvi_1_fullsize.jpg

Basically Moldavia does not reach farther than the Prut river.

 

[JonStryker]

Placing the armies takes the same time as placing the rest. We're talking probably close to 50, if not 100 hours. If you want it you'll probably have to do it yourself. It helps to know though, that positions are by default at the very northernmost point of every province.

Doing province number * ~6 clicks is dreadful but doable in <2 hours.
It's sad that auto-placement is so off these days. iirc at some point armies were placed in the center of a province some patches ago.

 

[Lyrecryer]

Can I use this map for my Lands of Time Mod? I been trying to make my own map but I think your map is much better than mine.

 

[Keanon]

Doing province number * ~6 clicks is dreadful but doable in <2 hours.
It's sad that auto-placement is so off these days. iirc at some point armies were placed in the center of a province some patches ago.

I might've overestimated the amount of vanilla provinces, but I think it's more than 2 hours honestly, atleast with India.

 

[starwarsfan541]

Just loaded this up and it is amazing, can wait to see the version with new provinces eventually.

 

[Teutonic_Thrash]

I can happily report that, aside from the small already-mentioned problems, this map works fine with (SWMH-less/NBRT-less) HIP.

 

[Palfouri]

I'm on mobile, so my response will be brief, but I would not mind linking an updated positions file of you make one. The mod is still in alpha, so I expect a lot of tweaking over the next few weeks while I finish things up.

The positions fixing process definitely can vary in time depending on your level of accuracy. I plan on having them realistically-placed and operate on a weaker gaming rig than many in here, and don't anticipate it being fast. Beyond the placement there is also rotation and height to consider.

To other commenters: Please keep the comments rolling. Beyond the empty files that I need to create/fix: I am open to suggestions. The whole Austria/Znojmo thing is a point of contention, since that whole region in vanilla is f***ed, for lack of a better word. I may just revert to putting it back up in Moravia and having an ugly Austria instead.

Here is a positions file for the small version that should have the army (but nothing else) positions fixed for all provinces except the Indian ones. I'll go back and fix those plus ports and any provinces people find I've missed.

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

I'll have a proper response later, but here are the topology files you need to fix the water height issues. Just drop them into the mod and you should be good to go.

Default Version

Small Version

 

[Owl8]

>load up map for a look.

oh, that's why it took a ungodly amount of time to get through anatolia.

 

[Vratislav]

Looks absolutely stunning. Any plans to merge this with other mods?

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

Really enjoying the new map! Only thing, is that you have to zoom in quite far before the province names show up.

Some of the provinces are quite small, and the default version is a substantial bit larger than vanilla, so there is definitely some zooming that is needed. I may try and see if there is a settings.txt or some other file that controls zoom speed since the map is larger.

Enjoying it so far.

Minor issue, however, although given the scaled up map it is a bit of an annoyance: the minimap does not appear (there is a semi-transparent black shape instead, and it is unclickable -i.e. clicing in some point of the minimap-shape does not move the camera towards there.

I'm currently working on the minimap issue, and hope to have a solution fairly quickly.

Cant wait to try this tommorrow. Is this just the altered vanilla option or does it also have new provinces yet?

Just the vanilla.

Absolutely beautiful. Unfortunately i too won't be able to use the default map until I upgrade in a month or so, but I did have one suggestion. The province Zjolmo makes an "arm" into Bavaria/Austria that looks very odd, both on the political map (in starts where Bohemia/Great Moravia controls the province) and on the culture map (since it's bohemian culture). Would it be possible to cut off the part of Zjolmo south of the Danube and attach it to another province? I think it would look better, even if it means some of the holdings in the province are inaccurate.

In the Vanilla game, no mods, it's obvious that the province of Znojmo is meant to physically be in the same place as Upper Austria. It's a point of contention of mine as to what to do with it. I believe I am going to go against JonStryker's suggestions and deal with my version having an ugly Austria and Bohemia/Moravia. There's no good compromise that I can find.

Can I suggest adding an alternative topology map without cutting out the water? It makes lakes in higher altitudes so ugly, i'd honestly rather be without the waves

I fixed the topology issue that others noticed, including making higher altitude lakes above the water line. I am considering a version of the map, combined with a suggestion for settings.txt, that raises all the water levels above the water line, making it more of a flat map. If you want to do it yourself, open the topology.bmp and use the wand selection to grab the water (which should all be RGB 89-89-89) and then make that something like RGB 97-97-97. It might even have the effect of using my custom colormap for the water, which I think is pretty good.

Hey Crack! Map is looking more and more awesome ^^.

Here's a small map about the Romanian Principalities and what their limits were.
http://static.elefant.ro/images/73/...pana-la-mijlocul-secolului-xvi_1_fullsize.jpg

Basically Moldavia does not reach farther than the Prut river.

True, and when I make my own Moldavia; It won't. Vanilla's files indicate that the provinces should, and I decided to focus on making the nearby Rus principalities more accurate since I find them to be more important.

Can I use this map for my Lands of Time Mod? I been trying to make my own map but I think your map is much better than mine.

Go right ahead. I don't mind. And make sure to keep checking in so that way you can get any updates I make. There will be some over the next month or so while I move the project from Alpha to Beta to Final and then start to make changes.

Just loaded this up and it is amazing, can wait to see the version with new provinces eventually.

Glad you're enjoying it!

I can happily report that, aside from the small already-mentioned problems, this map works fine with (SWMH-less/NBRT-less) HIP.

Good. It should work with anything that does not change vanilla map files.

Here is a positions file for the small version that should have the army (but nothing else) positions fixed for all provinces except the Indian ones. I'll go back and fix those plus ports and any provinces people find I've missed.

Thanks for posting. Feel free to continue doing so as you make changes.

>load up map for a look.

oh, that's why it took a ungodly amount of time to get through anatolia.

Yeah. Anatolia is rugged country.

Looks absolutely stunning. Any plans to merge this with other mods?

I have no plans to merge this with other mods myself. Anyone else can, if they want, though. I do not mind as long as attribution is given to me for the amount of work that I've put into it, haha.

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

Crackd', I congratulate with you. The map looks simply pure awesomeness, and I have few words to describe how much I have been impressed. This is excellent work and deserves great appraisal. In addition, it addresses so many of those small little issues that have annoyed me since game launch with province placement and borders (especially in Northern Italy, Eastern Anatolia, the Holy Land as well as other areas). Finally, a brief test of one in-game year showed no speed difference when using this mod, and I am the one who complained here. Thank you.

No problem! Glad I could fix so many salient issues for you.

Unfortunately, I doubt Paradox will want to integrate this into the basic version of the game: there are too many small, almost-unrecognizable provinces (Venice, Malta, Ragusa, Kleve, Hamburg, Derbent etc.) and the devs hate them for the sake of accessibility. They are right in their own way; still I want your map by all means for use in mods. I hope I am wrong about Paradox anyways.

I don't really want them to use it. I honestly think that the forums would explode if that change was forced. Keeping it as a mod lets me control it.

Back to the topic. Your map is pure awesomeness and I am seriously considering to change the spirit of my mod and transform it into one that is specifically tailored at your map (if you want we can collaborate on the matter.) But before this, there are some small issues with province borders that I think need to be addressed in the Vanilla version, but I need time and screenshots for me to show and motivate these issues to you in detail. I reserve to do this as soon as possible. Of all of them, the Znojmo province problem - mentioned above by Palfouri - is probably the first and foremost, and I am not sure what the appropriate solution is.

If you have suggestions, feel free to make them. I'm really trying to move past this version and get on to making my own changes, though, so nothing too extensive. The Znojmo problem is one, and the whole situation in Eastern Anatolia is another.

Before I address issues that are specific of some provinces and/or areas, let me list few problems with the current version.

- The minimap on the right-bottom corner of the screen is missing.

Working on that. I thought what I had provided worked, but I apparently need to finagle with it a bit more.

- The game opens by showing the West Sahara part of the map. This is very negligible but at the same time not really desirable.

Do you know where I can fix that?

- There are no cities on the map and the center of each province - I mean where CoAs are displayed - is for all of them in its northernmost and westernmost possible point (if I understand correctly). I believe that you are aware of these issues as you write in your readme file but, at present, this problem alone makes the map unplayable for me.

Positions are being worked on. They're a pain in the tusch, and time-consuming, but I hope to have them done sometime soon.

- I haven't had the time to test it, but what are your plans about navigable rivers? In Vanilla, they always work as province borders and troops can unload on either side; but in your map these revers seem to often cut provinces through. Does it mean that troops can only unload in one province in some cases? I would approve the idea but this has an important gameplay effect (some provinces would become riskier than others).

I intend on having navigable rivers occasionally be borders, and occasionally run through provinces. This does make certain provinces more important strategically, and it should. I'm not a fan of a multiplayer style balance where everything is equal and fair. Life is not fair. History is not fair. And some provinces should be more important on a strategic level: Mountain passes, rivers, certain coasts and sea zones. That is by design.

- India is very weird to see, and I believe that playing in Bengala or Deccan would feel very unnatural unless one gets really used to it. I understand it's too late to change matters but I would like to know what was the reason for the choice of this projection (Vinland maybe?). Also, what will happen if the game is extended to China (hopefully not)? While the Vanilla map may accommodate China somewhat fine, how would you feel about changing your map? (A very hypothetical question I know).

The reason for the projection is because I wanted to have accurate province sizes with the least amount of distortion. The flat map approach heavily distorts certain areas and makes big areas on the Equator small. It's inaccurate geographically, at least moreso than my version.

There's also this: My map is based on actual geographic projection, which is easily replicable. You can, quite literally, take any other map that you know the projection for and convert it to my Alber EA Conic and use it. For instance, I could download a Roman Road outline shapefile, drop it in GIs software, click a few buttons, and put that over my map. I can do the same for cities, trees, province boundaries. People who are making modern day scenarios can take administrative borders, convert to Albers, and then make provinces. Basically, in addition to being geographically accurate, it allows you to take any known projection for whatever you want and turn it into a game asset.

 

[Thure]

For your Austria rework... Two very good maps for medieval Styria:

http://austria-forum.org/attach/Wis...tsatlas/Steiermark, Entstehung/Steiermark.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/f/f5/Steiermark-im-Mittelalter.jpg

 

[zijistark]

I can happily report that, aside from the small already-mentioned problems, this map works fine with (SWMH-less/NBRT-less) HIP.

I haven't tried it yet, but it should also work fine with HIP w/ NBRT+ enabled (and SWMH obviously disabled). That's the "light" version of NBRT+ which doesn't use custom terrain types for the SWMH map, but either way, it's a massive improvement than not using NBRT+, and hey, it's right there when you're installing HIP.