Ooh, those events sounds interesting. Been trying to do something similar, but been having trouble. I look forwards to your mod's release! You have my permission to incorporate my mod, thank you for asking.
[MOD] Cantrefi: Wales Divided
- Thread starter Ijtzoi
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Great, thanks! The idea is that in the Celtic world the personal authority of the individual is far more important than lineage. For example, the primary heir of the King of Wales may not have enough authority after succession events to retain his King title (Ireland is different though, the High Kingship should always exist but get passed a bit). Pretty much the only thing holding me back from releasing something is a difficulty with causing wars by event after the death of the Irish High King.
Just a side note When I studied Welsh history in Bangor The "High King" Would be called Prince of Wales and the holders of different provinces was Kings. That is actually why the crown prince of England is called Prince of Wales to this day. The saying was cultural and definitely also in this period of time. On another note the island shown by Gwynnedd Named Anglesey was at this point a separate county and would provide an extra county for the "Prince of Wales".
I've always been interested in the Welsh language and culture and began playing Dyfed and Welsh counties as soon as I started playing CKII. I'll have to try this mod out, looks good! Too bad the map is so small or you could have fitted in all the "historical" counties of Wales like Radnor and Denbight and Anglesea (Ynys-Mon)
Totius Albionis (a mapmod that improves the Britain area exclusively) and Ard Ri (which itself, incorporates Totious Albionis) both incorporate Cantrefi, so if you like Welsh history take a look at them too *shameless plug*
Totius Albionis (a mapmod that improves the Britain area exclusively) and Ard Ri (which itself, incorporates Totious Albionis) both incorporate Cantrefi, so if you like Welsh history take a look at them too *shameless plug*
Ard Ri looks absolutely awesome! Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but it seems to be the best rendition of Wales available, by far.
Have you seen RedRooster's Matter of Britain map? His Wales puts all others to shame, though admittedly he's got a much, much larger area to work with.
So, turns out 1.08 features some new Welsh characters for the history files! Lots of 'em, filling out the history for centuries. This was enough to stir my lazy self for an update to the mod, which rolls in all these changes (I tried to have the merge keep most of Theodotus' changes) and fixes a couple of squibbles I never really noticed, like the baronies not being independent when there's a Morgannwg. I've tested it, and it seems to work.
While I was at it, I set the first post to link to all the mods which include this, since I've come to think of it more as a mod component than an overhaul in itself. 'Swhy I haven't released my [exceedingly minor] changes to Welsh culture and succession laws with it. If I missed any, let me know and I'll put in a link. Totius Albionis seems to have some issues with shield positioning now, for some reason, but I put in a recommendation for it anyhow, on account of it being great.
While I was at it, I set the first post to link to all the mods which include this, since I've come to think of it more as a mod component than an overhaul in itself. 'Swhy I haven't released my [exceedingly minor] changes to Welsh culture and succession laws with it. If I missed any, let me know and I'll put in a link. Totius Albionis seems to have some issues with shield positioning now, for some reason, but I put in a recommendation for it anyhow, on account of it being great.
Could you talk about some of the new and fixed characters added in 1.08, please? I have limited knowledge of the Welsh but would be keen to learn more.
???
I was under the impression the "big title" of the Welsh was the King of the Britons, with the Prince of Wales being a title developed centuries later (13th, I think), when the English started pushing the Welsh into vassalage.
Is he a character in vanilla or just this mod? If the former, report it in the bug forum.
Correct, I just checked.
I absolutely do not claim any expertise in Welsh history or naming practices, so if you guys have spotted any bugs in vanilla then please mention them in the bug forum. I've attempted to clean up some of the names here.
Also, as a way to comprimise with this mod, I've considered submitting for inclusion another barony or two in the vanilla Welsh setup. To specify, this means we can represent more Welsh holdings (with their ruling dynasties) without having to add more provinces, which Paradox won't do.
I'm sorry to hijack this thread, but I assume there are some Welsh experts here and therefore relevant examples of what I'm talking about could be suggested. Please use the vanilla 1.08 setup as a guide, though, and not this mod's.
I think we can all agree that helping to better represent the Welsh (and indeed to strengthen them against foreign incursion) in vanilla can only be a good thing.
I think Maelienydd should be split into 2 counties (Maelienydd and Buellt) and 4 Baronies (Maelienydd, Buellt, Elflael, and Gwertheyrnion). They would be part of the new duchy of Rhwng Gwy a Hafren.
One of the dynasties has a long line of unconnected characters down the left-hand side of their family tree, which leads me to suggest that someone has the wrong parent(s).
Thanks everyone for the replies and interest, I've been insanely busy lately and haven't had much chance to reply or work on the mod.
Also, I really, really do not like 2-county duchies. Other even numbers are also bad, but two is the worst. Gameplay wise, they always get usurped back and forth until one of them conquers the other. There really isn't historical precedent. I miss CK1 requiring a two-thirds majority.
Now, I believe theoretically Brycheiniog was part of Rhwng Gwy a Hafren, so I could make it three if I do split Buellt out, but Powys and Morgannwg would also need to have a split. Rather than go into all this subdividing and create three new provinces in an already-crowded region, we can take note of how Powys would sometimes claim it had rights based on old ties to invade parts of Rhwng Gwy a Hafren. I remember hearing that somewhere, and it's interpreted in Cantrefi as Maelienydd being de jure Powish.
One fix I would want to see in vanilla is removing "de " from Welsh dynasty names. The dynasties they do have [Mathrafal, Aberffraw, Dinefwr] are all ingame holdings and they don't get "de"s. It's weird seeing a "Dinefwr" and a "de Dinefwr" dynasty, especially considering "de" is Welsh for "South". But hey, maybe the "Mathrafals" are really the "gogledd Mathrafals".
*An English king giving it to a different vassal than Gwynedd doesn't count.
**I predict the majority of 1066 games would go like this: Gwynedd creates the duchy, de jure conquers Gwent, creates Wales [has 4 of 8 provinces], absorbs Deheubarth. Almost always this would probably happen.
I kind of hope you're talking about the screenshot in the first post. That's pretty outdated, the version on my hard drive has Dyfed west of Ystrad Tywi. I don't think I've changed it from the version in the post, so it should be right. Is Ystrad Tywi really the westmost in your copy? I know that at least one mod which incorporates this had issues with that, but Cantrefi pure should be fine.
Argh. And here I was thinking the merge went right. I guess something went wrong somewhere. I think I included a renamed version of the pre-108 characters file: changing "history/characters/Welshold" [no file extension] to "history/characters/Welsh.txt" should erase the new characters and clean up the dynasties. Maybe I'll be able to do a proper merge, but it'll probably be some time before I can get around to it.
There are a few reasons Rhwng Gwy a Hafren isn't properly represented here. First of all, if a province is too small, it is really hard to fit all the units, councillors and such on it and still have them properly selectable. I'm already pushing this boundary with the current system, there've been times it was hard to tell what units was where and to give proper move orders.
Also, I really, really do not like 2-county duchies. Other even numbers are also bad, but two is the worst. Gameplay wise, they always get usurped back and forth until one of them conquers the other. There really isn't historical precedent. I miss CK1 requiring a two-thirds majority.
Now, I believe theoretically Brycheiniog was part of Rhwng Gwy a Hafren, so I could make it three if I do split Buellt out, but Powys and Morgannwg would also need to have a split. Rather than go into all this subdividing and create three new provinces in an already-crowded region, we can take note of how Powys would sometimes claim it had rights based on old ties to invade parts of Rhwng Gwy a Hafren. I remember hearing that somewhere, and it's interpreted in Cantrefi as Maelienydd being de jure Powish.
I don't know how much difference a few new holdings would make. It would just make the two duchies more valuable. I don't really consider the big issue with the vanilla setup to be that Wales is weak or that it doesn't have enough families, but how united it all is between two kingdoms [ignoring Cornwall] when there was so much more to Wales than that. Powys splits from Gwynedd very shortly, and splits farther between its rules kids. How often do you see Powys split from Gwynedd in vanilla*, or a barony, any barony, become independent? A Wales which is weaker than England, maybe even moreso than it should be, is acceptable to me. I like a challenge. But a Wales made of two indivisible duchies... I really don't see that representing the period at all. It might be better for them to split Powys and Gwent into a Rhwng Gwy a Hafren duchy, but there are so many issues with that gameplay wise** and history wise that I wouldn't support it. If they do add more holdings in vanilla I wouldn't complain, but I don't see it as better representing things. That's just me and I am hilariously far from being a Welsh expert though.
One fix I would want to see in vanilla is removing "de " from Welsh dynasty names. The dynasties they do have [Mathrafal, Aberffraw, Dinefwr] are all ingame holdings and they don't get "de"s. It's weird seeing a "Dinefwr" and a "de Dinefwr" dynasty, especially considering "de" is Welsh for "South". But hey, maybe the "Mathrafals" are really the "gogledd Mathrafals".
*An English king giving it to a different vassal than Gwynedd doesn't count.
**I predict the majority of 1066 games would go like this: Gwynedd creates the duchy, de jure conquers Gwent, creates Wales [has 4 of 8 provinces], absorbs Deheubarth. Almost always this would probably happen.
Thanks, I just wish I had more chance to update it more. The character issues at the minimum need to be fixed.
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