[MOD] Britannia 479 AD - The Winter King

[Mixxer5]

A standard Marian/Imperial Legion was 6000 men, but the later legions (post Constantine) contained only 1000 for a field legion of professional Comitatenses (who were comparable to traditional legionaries) or around 3000 for a border legion of the more militia-like Limitanei (who were generally spear-armed light infantry).

Both would be supplemented by a varying number and type of auxiliary units, which were typically about 800 men strong but could vary tremendously by type and location.

The 'Roman legion' that shows up is presumably a Legio Comitatenses, since the troops already available to Soissons would have been Limitanei anyway.

So it should be 1000 warriors/soldiers for the legion plus however many auxiliaries Luca wants them to have.

As far as I'm concerned after battle for Adrianopolis (IV century) legions were never used again- I hadn't read book yet, so I assumed that normal legions were used there. If it's as You say though, fine no problem. Om the other hand- late Rome forces were sign of of internal weakness of Empire. Recreating it would be great opportunity to restore old ways of military tactics (which could be successfully used in medieval too).

I'm talking about Pentarchs, sorry. The ones that are given specific bishoprics that they sit in.

But Miaphisytes don't have Pentarchs Orthodox do and they're already being used for Old gods.


One more thing- How about making (randomly, some 10% chances) invasion against Franks by Byzantium possible? In reality Justinian the Great wasn't successful enough, losing too much resources in Italy. Would he be more successful, he could invade Frankish empire and maybe even defeat it. Of course it'd fit best when bigger map is introduced, so war for Gaul can be shown. Also, if Justinian is successful, invasions from east could happen against him.

 

[JimThePocket]

As far as I'm concerned after battle for Adrianopolis (IV century) legions were never used again- I hadn't read book yet, so I assumed that normal legions were used there. If it's as You say though, fine no problem. Om the other hand- late Rome forces were sign of of internal weakness of Empire. Recreating it would be great opportunity to restore old ways of military tactics (which could be successfully used in medieval too).

It depends on what you consider a 'Roman Legion' to be really, since a lot of old sources are pretty free with the word and the ERE would apply the name to several different things for the next few centuries. The traditional style Marian legions certainly disappeared after Constantine's reforms, and whilst the late-Roman Legio Comiatenses (the type used at Adrianople) existed during the fifth century, they were probably pretty sparse a few decades in. Aetius, for example, supposedly lacked any regular soldiers for his war against Attila, and the sources we have suggest that around 76 Comitatus 'Legions' were dissolved or obliterated between 395 and 425.

The last records of any sort of 'Legion' in the WRE are around 460ad, but by that point it's a bit of a confusing mess and we don't know what military strength Rome had in the brief years before its fall, though it doubtless wasn't much.

When it comes to renewing the legions I'd think that following a Constantinian model would make more sense. Not only would it be more natural to try and recreate an army that existed 50 years ago rather than 200 years ago, but the smaller Legions were a lot more flexible in practice. Rome didn't fall because the late Roman army sucked, it was still qualitatively better than most of Rome's enemies, but legions are expensive.

 

[Ols]

Miaphystites do have Pentarchs. Their Papacy sits in Alexandria and they have a patriach in Antioch in quite a few games where the Miaphystite Duke of Edessa holds the area. Start as him or as Abyssinia and you can see that.
The autocephaly mechanic is the same too, as there's an autocephalous patriach in Abyssinia subordinate to the Coptic Pope who has ecclesiastical the Miaphystite regions in Egypt and anywhere else if Antioch has fallen to Orthodoxy, Catholicism or Islam. (It does to all 3 at some point.)

miaphysite = {
graphical_culture = westerngfx

icon = 11
color = { 0.7 0.7 0.4 }

crusade_name = "CRUSADE"
scripture_name = THE_BIBLE

god_names = {
GOD_GOD GOD_THE_LORD GOD_JESUS GOD_THE_BLESSED_VIRGIN
}

investiture = no
autocephaly = yes
can_excommunicate = yes
can_grant_divorce = yes
can_grant_invasion_cb = invasion
can_grant_claim = yes
can_call_crusade = no
}

I don't know where the code for the Pentarchy actually is so I can work out if it's possible to set up different pentarchy seats for different religions, but Luca strongly implied it was not possible as it was hard coded.

 

[Luca0312]

I think having multiple religions with autocephalous priests IS possible, and right now the main reason I haven't done it is localization... there is only one possible localized title for Pentarchs and Patriarchs. Right now in The Winter King they have been changed to Archdruid and Druid respectively. If I add autocephaly to roman religion, their top priests would be called the same way as Old Gods religion, and I still haven't found a pair of titles that would make sense for both...

 

[Luca0312]

What do you have in mind for CoA ? depending on what you want to see, you can adapt some stuff from my Coa mod. Or you can still ask for technical advice if needed.

Keep up the good work^^

I'd love to adapt some of the art from your pack, thank you Arko!

I haven't looked into CoAs yet but I will... it's still a rather obscure side of CKII for me. I just plan to have simpler, nicer and more historically 'plausible' random CoAs for towns, temples and castles. And while I'm at it I might rework some of the dynastic CoAs as well. But I've got some other things to finish before that (event chains and a few new provinces I'm adding). It's just hard to prioritize things... :wacko:

 

[Ols]

Well, I don't really know what would work for the Romans then. There's probably some generic name that can be given to them, I guess. They don't actually need Pentarchs, autocephaly = yes would be good enough for them considering there isn't really a historical basis for having some Roman cultist set up in some far flung corner of Britannia. It's a shame there's no real use for the Muslim code, I can't really think of a way in which it could be applied, unless of course to give the Gaelic religion some flavour and make them seem more unique.

 

[Luca0312]

One more thing- How about making (randomly, some 10% chances) invasion against Franks by Byzantium possible? In reality Justinian the Great wasn't successful enough, losing too much resources in Italy. Would he be more successful, he could invade Frankish empire and maybe even defeat it. Of course it'd fit best when bigger map is introduced, so war for Gaul can be shown. Also, if Justinian is successful, invasions from east could happen against him.

I promise this is the last version of the mod where Franks or Romans can feel safe and hang their shields to the wall once they control Gaul. No more. Look out for new threats from the south...

 

[Luca0312]

It's a shame there's no real use for the Muslim code, I can't really think of a way in which it could be applied, unless of course to give the Gaelic religion some flavour and make them seem more unique.

I thought about that since day 1, but Muslim have many hard-coded mechanics (decadence just to name one) that would need to be dealt with... I'm afraid adapting all of that to this scenario would be quite complicated.

 

[ZhugeKongming]

I support adding the rest of Scotland and maybe a little bit more of Gaul, but otherwise I love the small scale of this map and I'd hate to see it bloated by adding a bunch of new land provinces in Britain or tons of new sea provinces to include Scandinavia.

I'd also love to see the history files updated so that we have bookmarks for the beginning of each book. I don't think it's necessary to include every single event and circumstance from the books, though.

 

[Ols]

Adding a bit more of Gaul down to the southern border of the Domain of Soissons wouldn't hurt. Expanding the map in a way that would have to change its scale (but not necessarily its North-South East-West ratio) would be pointless. That said, Benoic was, according to the history I checked, part of Soissons so accuracy doesn't matter a huge amount down there. The other problem with expanding is that the Scottish Highlands would probably have a lot of space with nothing to put in it. At best a few Vikings and raiders could base themselves up there and mess with kingdoms later in the game. Again, it might be a lot of work for no real reason.

I'm trying to install Derfel Cadarn in a revived Kingdom of Iscenia, having to resist the temptation in the meantime to simply press the weak claim he got on Anglia after 5 of its kings died in short order. If I do press it, will the title collapse? If it became Iscenia or broke up into High Lordships, that'd be great.

One last thing, Uther Pendragon ALWAYS seems to recover from his illness when I play him. Is this working as intended? I legitimised Arthur in each playthrough expecting a quick succession, but in every case he died of something else like personal combat a few years down the line or lived to his 80's. If an event is killing him that wont fire when Dumnonia is played, it somewhat changes the dynamics of the game for the south of Britannia because he meets the requirements to quickly conquer Cantia, create Canturia and then beat back the Anglians or even Invade them within a decade or two. I took one county of Cantia and got the option to become Britannia, and managed it after attacking Gwent in a short campaign. Maybe the requirements to proclaim it should be land in 3 or more Kingdom titles, rather than two.

 

[Luca0312]

I support adding the rest of Scotland and maybe a little bit more of Gaul, but otherwise I love the small scale of this map and I'd hate to see it bloated by adding a bunch of new land provinces in Britain or tons of new sea provinces to include Scandinavia.

I'd also love to see the history files updated so that we have bookmarks for the beginning of each book. I don't think it's necessary to include every single event and circumstance from the books, though.

Don't worry Calanctus, I'm with you about loving the scale of the map and any future expansion will stay true to this original concept.

Having bookmarks for the beginning of each book was really my original intent... but at the time I had not realized yet how much work is needed to fill the history files. Going all the way to 650 or 700 would require thousands of characters.

However, the last book start date should be roughly around 510 if I recall correctly, so that wouldn't be so complicated. As I said two posts ago, it's just hard to prioritize things!

 

[Luca0312]

I'm trying to install Derfel Cadarn in a revived Kingdom of Iscenia, having to resist the temptation in the meantime to simply press the weak claim he got on Anglia after 5 of its kings died in short order. If I do press it, will the title collapse? If it became Iscenia or broke up into High Lordships, that'd be great.

I'm not 100% sure about this... but if Derfel is still briton culture, the Kingdom of Anglia would probably dissolve. Did you check what do the tooltips on the 'Claim Anglia' declare-war-button say? You know the 'If we win the war...' text.

Anyway, I think you can choose what to do here rather freely... you can claim Anglia and if it doesn't dissolve, just make it your secondary title after Icenia or destroy it. You'll be King of Icenia and rule over both the Anglo-Saxon jarls and the briton Vassal Kings of Cantabrigia and Trinovantia.

Can I ask if you got the de-jure map changes when Icenia was formed? Anglia should not be on the de jure map anymore... right?

 

[Ols]

Icenia hasn't formed. I'm playing as Arthur Pendragon and I'm holding Londinium in addition to all of de jure Dumnonia + Cantuaria. I have Derfel in my court so I can attempt to press his claim. Let me check what happens.

Nope. It didn't dissolve. Derfel is ruling as a Briton, Old God worshipping King of Anglia. The borders didn't change when to got the title, only the former King became a High Lord in all the remaining holdings that weren't held by Saxon Shore and Derfel got Thunrulsea. For now, the chain of vassalage is working fine.

 

[Luca0312]

Icenia hasn't formed. I'm playing as Arthur Pendragon and I'm holding Londinium in addition to all of de jure Dumnonia + Cantuaria. I have Derfel in my court so I can attempt to press his claim. Let me check what happens.

I'm not sure what an AI-controlled Derfel would do if you put him on the throne of Anglia. Interesting test. Let me know. I'm particularly curious about his attitude towards Arthur/you later, since he'd no longer be his/your vassal.

 

[Ols]

He's got a -150 tyrant modifier at the moment, so it might not be a valid test. I legitimised both of Arthur's sons when the asked me to then panicked because they weren't Pendragons, so imprisoned and killed them to secure succession to my legit sons. He has the +100 pressed my claim, not sure how long that will last. He'll probably be enraged at me when that goes though, because I suspect tyrant will be permanent despite me no longer being his liege. He's also depressed and has no heirs yet. I'm hoping House Cadarn will continue before he goes and kills himself.

I switched to playing as Derfel and found out he had no money, so I gave him some to create the Briton titles. He hasn't done it yet.

A few years down the line Saxon Shore has rebelled with a claim being pressed to Anglia. Looks like Derfel will win. Oh, hold on, East Saxe has rebelled too, I'll have to intervene.
That was a victory, but it seems the two High Lords have married and share their son as heir to both. If Aelle II, High Lord of East Saxe dies, he's the legitimate pretender to Anglia and will hold all but one of its counties. I'll have to intervene a few times yet.

Derfel isn't legitimised, so he produced a Hashtud, Anglo-Saxon heir. I think bastards producing heirs of other dynasties needs to be revised somewhat.

And now he's dead. The Hashtuds rule in a regency now. I'm continuing to conquer it properly.

 

[JimThePocket]

New buildings.txt works great.

In other news, boy howdy are Anglia tough. It's great fun trying to hold them back.

Some more random questions:

1) Are druids supposed to die so often? I get through a couple a year. It's getting rather expensive.

2) What happens to Excalibur when Arthur dies?

 

[Luca0312]

New buildings.txt works great.

In other news, boy howdy are Anglia tough. It's great fun trying to hold them back.

Some more random questions:

1) Are druids supposed to die so often? I get through a couple a year. It's getting rather expensive.

2) What happens to Excalibur when Arthur dies?

1) They don't die, they are removed from the druids order if their skills drop below certain min requirements (it might happen if they start with skills just above the requirements and then get traits like drunkard, etc.). When they are removed from the order, they can no longer be your spiritual advisor, but... they still are in your court, and they probably still have some very decent skills. Make use of them. Good tutors or even chancellors.

2) Lost. Currently, the only way to get it is through the 'Restore the Old Gods' ambition/storyline (by the way, ANY character of Old Gods religion can get Excalibur this way). I really should add the option to pass it to heirs. I will look into AGoT valyrian swords files and ask for their permission to adapt them...

 

[Luca0312]

He's got a -150 tyrant modifier at the moment, so it might not be a valid test. I legitimised both of Arthur's sons when the asked me to then panicked because they weren't Pendragons, so imprisoned and killed them to secure succession to my legit sons. He has the +100 pressed my claim, not sure how long that will last. He'll probably be enraged at me when that goes though, because I suspect tyrant will be permanent despite me no longer being his liege. He's also depressed and has no heirs yet. I'm hoping House Cadarn will continue before he goes and kills himself.

I switched to playing as Derfel and found out he had no money, so I gave him some to create the Briton titles. He hasn't done it yet.

A few years down the line Saxon Shore has rebelled with a claim being pressed to Anglia. Looks like Derfel will win. Oh, hold on, East Saxe has rebelled too, I'll have to intervene.
That was a victory, but it seems the two High Lords have married and share their son as heir to both. If Aelle II, High Lord of East Saxe dies, he's the legitimate pretender to Anglia and will hold all but one of its counties. I'll have to intervene a few times yet.

Derfel isn't legitimised, so he produced a Hashtud, Anglo-Saxon heir. I think bastards producing heirs of other dynasties needs to be revised somewhat.

And now he's dead. The Hashtuds rule in a regency now. I'm continuing to conquer it properly.

LOL... quite a nasty and arbitrary Arthur you got yourself there...

By the way, about suicides... currently AI rulers do commit suicide only if they are depressed AND have less than -200 gold (negative). AI non-rulers will do it only if they have both negative prestige and piety. All (AI rulers or non-rulers) must also have some other trait like stressed, weak, craven, lunatic, paranoid or drunkard. Also no traits like strong, brave or trusting. And finally, Anglo-Saxons and Franks will not do it regardless of how poor their life might be. This should keep the suicides in control, but if it doesn't (I mean if you guys see too many suicides happening) let me know.

About bastards/heirs, do you have any idea how we could achieve what you suggest?

Thanks!

L.

 

[Ols]

If you can make it so bastards can marry normally, that'd work. Since all the ones you've added seem to be lowborn or have a different dynasty, it wouldn't cause much damage.

 

[Luca0312]

If you can make it so bastards can marry normally, that'd work. Since all the ones you've added seem to be lowborn or have a different dynasty, it wouldn't cause much damage.

I hope to be wrong but... isn't that hard-coded?