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In 479, the Franks were still pagan (though the other Germanic groups in Gaul were Arian); Clovis converted to Catholicism in 496, at the instigation of his Burgundian wife. Source

Thanks Richard! Useful info! I should probably set their initial religion to pagan then (except Clovis wife and a few others maybe)... even if they converted just 15 years later. Having to deal with the conversion will also weaken them a little bit along the way, and that's good because right now their invasion power is scary... ;-)

Clovis conversion could even be scripted... so if he's alive and still ruling and still pagan (and not the player) in 496, he becomes a christian.

Thanks again for the info,

L.
 
In the game of thrones mod they have several landless titles. Maybe you could figure out how they did it there?

I've got several landless titles already in (mostly are mercenaries but not only those). The problem I was talking about can't be solved with landless titles, because the character has to be somewhere on the map. If I introduce papacy as a landless title, then the Pope himself would still be somewhere on the map, at some ruler's court... and that would feel totally wrong.

Keanon's solution might work, except for the fact that (I guess) you'd still see the titles "shields" hovering where you put the 1-pixel-provinces. I would still feel weird... a big "workaround"... and I don't like that. I'd rather have a Pope-less christianity. Seriously, I don't think you'll miss the pope in this specific setting.

I don't even know how we ended up talking about this because I never thought of it as a real problem! There are many other things and features that I want to focus on, before even trying to get the Pope (or the eastern roman Emperor) in.

L.
 
Hm.. methinks you need to expand map to entire world at this same scale, but blacken out countries that do not matter for time being yessss?
 
Hm.. methinks you need to expand map to entire world at this same scale, but blacken out countries that do not matter for time being yessss?

Methinks a map of this scale covering the entire world would be WAAAAY above the engine limitations (even entire France would not fit in the current 10Mpix limit), and would require a serious (very serious) modding team. I spent no less than 100 hours just working on the map (even before I created the first title, or character). I am willing to spend much more time on this project, but NOT working on the map, so I can assure you: the map is not going to cover more land than it does now. Sorry but it's an impossible task for a one-man team. I consider the map 97% done, it just need more details in some areas but I am very satisfied with it. I will probably add more provinces before release but that's not map work strictly speaking.

You see, the point of this mod is precisely to create a smaller scale experience for CKII. I don't care about having the rest of the world to play with! If you get into the right perspective, the British Isles and the area covered by this map are huge... endless things can happen there. The smaller scale makes the map a lot more immersive and visually convincing (in my humble opinion). It actually make things feel LARGER.

When I first played CKII, I did not love it because of one thing: the provinces were too small, the whole map too crowded. Some provinces are so small that the 3D model of the capital barely fits, and if you send four councillors over there, it's going to look like they're standing all four on a biscuit. TPATT and several other popular mods make this thing even worse (even if they add tons of fantastic features, no doubt about that!).

I didn't play more than 15-20 hours of vanilla CKII because it made my eyes go crazy with hundreds of tiny, brightly colored provinces.

Then the Game of Thrones mod came. I am a big fan of A Song of Ice and Fire and so I tried the mod as soon as I knew about it. It was love on first sight. I liked the setting, the CKII engine is a perfect simulator for Martin's world, but even more I liked the SCALE! No more tiny provinces, lots of details in the map... forests, valleys, roads... visually it was just a lot more immersive for me than vanilla CKII. It felt like being there. Honestly, Vanilla alps looks so ugly I could not stand playing as an italian ruler (and that was my first try, being italian myself). The GOT team in my opinion pushed mapmaking to a whole another level.

I played the GOT mod for more than 150 hours... (thanks Steam hours counter). And I stopped just because I started working on this mod, otherwise I'd still be playing... ;-)

I realized I wanted to try to take this approach a step further, creating a map that could feel even larger (covering a smaller area). I had no doubts about the setting... I've been trying to create a roman-britain-based game for almost ten years now (not joking). It started as a Role Playing Game project (paper and dices, not software), and I actually wrote a manual and made a lot of research. About a year ago I created a map for the RPG that was actually the starting point for THIS map (I started from the same photoshop file, I got all the land/sea borders already done, I knew the damn thing like my pockets).

Please, do not ask me to go on a larger scale with this mod, because my intent is exactly the opposite! I want it to be full of tiny details, compact but deep, not bigger but thinner...

Thanks!

L.
 
I've got several landless titles already in (mostly are mercenaries but not only those). The problem I was talking about can't be solved with landless titles, because the character has to be somewhere on the map. If I introduce papacy as a landless title, then the Pope himself would still be somewhere on the map, at some ruler's court... and that would feel totally wrong.

Keanon's solution might work, except for the fact that (I guess) you'd still see the titles "shields" hovering where you put the 1-pixel-provinces. I would still feel weird... a big "workaround"... and I don't like that. I'd rather have a Pope-less christianity. Seriously, I don't think you'll miss the pope in this specific setting.

I don't even know how we ended up talking about this because I never thought of it as a real problem! There are many other things and features that I want to focus on, before even trying to get the Pope (or the eastern roman Emperor) in.

L.
You could make a regional bishop the equivalent of the Pope, and "acting on his orders". Its not like anything happens to religious heads if they get conquered, anyway.
 
Methinks a map of this scale covering the entire world would be WAAAAY above the engine limitations (even entire France would not fit in the current 10Mpix limit), and would require a serious (very serious) modding team.

Have You seen Umbra Spherae? But You're probably right- to much terrain to cover. How big will continental France be? Because this little piece of Normandy is... little. :p
 
Have You seen Umbra Spherae? But You're probably right- to much terrain to cover. How big will continental France be? Because this little piece of Normandy is... little. :p
Little?
I'd say it's just under the size of Arabia in vanilla.
 
Methinks a map of this scale covering the entire world would be WAAAAY above the engine limitations (even entire France would not fit in the current 10Mpix limit), and would require a serious (very serious) modding team. I spent no less than 100 hours just working on the map (even before I created the first title, or character). I am willing to spend much more time on this project, but NOT working on the map, so I can assure you: the map is not going to cover more land than it does now. Sorry but it's an impossible task for a one-man team. I consider the map 97% done, it just need more details in some areas but I am very satisfied with it. I will probably add more provinces before release but that's not map work strictly speaking.

You see, the point of this mod is precisely to create a smaller scale experience for CKII. I don't care about having the rest of the world to play with! If you get into the right perspective, the British Isles and the area covered by this map are huge... endless things can happen there. The smaller scale makes the map a lot more immersive and visually convincing (in my humble opinion). It actually make things feel LARGER.

When I first played CKII, I did not love it because of one thing: the provinces were too small, the whole map too crowded. Some provinces are so small that the 3D model of the capital barely fits, and if you send four councillors over there, it's going to look like they're standing all four on a biscuit. TPATT and several other popular mods make this thing even worse (even if they add tons of fantastic features, no doubt about that!).

I didn't play more than 15-20 hours of vanilla CKII because it made my eyes go crazy with hundreds of tiny, brightly colored provinces.

Then the Game of Thrones mod came. I am a big fan of A Song of Ice and Fire and so I tried the mod as soon as I knew about it. It was love on first sight. I liked the setting, the CKII engine is a perfect simulator for Martin's world, but even more I liked the SCALE! No more tiny provinces, lots of details in the map... forests, valleys, roads... visually it was just a lot more immersive for me than vanilla CKII. It felt like being there. Honestly, Vanilla alps looks so ugly I could not stand playing as an italian ruler (and that was my first try, being italian myself). The GOT team in my opinion pushed mapmaking to a whole another level.

I played the GOT mod for more than 150 hours... (thanks Steam hours counter). And I stopped just because I started working on this mod, otherwise I'd still be playing... ;-)

I realized I wanted to try to take this approach a step further, creating a map that could feel even larger (covering a smaller area). I had no doubts about the setting... I've been trying to create a roman-britain-based game for almost ten years now (not joking). It started as a Role Playing Game project (paper and dices, not software), and I actually wrote a manual and made a lot of research. About a year ago I created a map for the RPG that was actually the starting point for THIS map (I started from the same photoshop file, I got all the land/sea borders already done, I knew the damn thing like my pockets).

Please, do not ask me to go on a larger scale with this mod, because my intent is exactly the opposite! I want it to be full of tiny details, compact but deep, not bigger but thinner...

Thanks!

L.

100% agree with you^^

how bigger is your map scale then ?
I'm working actually on a similar project for another region. My scale makes the map ~x5 / x6 bigger

the details on your map are impressive. did you tweak textures ?
 
Have You seen Umbra Spherae? But You're probably right- to much terrain to cover. How big will continental France be? Because this little piece of Normandy is... little. :p

Their map is still within the 10M pixel limit (and thus at a much smaller LOD than this map).
 
The Warlords series is one of my favourite books and if I hadn't chosen Veldmaarschalk I would have probably choosen Derfel Cadarn as my forum-nick :).

When I have the time I will definitely try this mod.
 
I hope there will be bookmarks for future centuries, the petty kingdoms of those days are 100x more interesting than these blobs.
And goddang, enough of the fantasy rubbish with merlin. Love the terrain though, good work!
 
I hope there will be bookmarks for future centuries, the petty kingdoms of those days are 100x more interesting than these blobs.
And goddang, enough of the fantasy rubbish with merlin.

Yes, I plan to have bookmarks in 479, 481 (big difference because a lot of things happen in those two years), around 508 and then around 550. In 550 AD Britain was already half-conquered by Saxons and several of their kingdoms were born: Mercia, Lindsey, Hwicce, Magonsaete, probably also Deira in the north... and sometime later came Northumbria and Wessex... and all these anglo-saxon kingdoms pushed Powys and Dumnonia towards the irish sea and cornwall respectively. As I tried to explain, one of the things that I like more of this mod is its tendency to go as history did. Usually 100 years after game start, the map looks really similar to real historical maps of 600 AD: those are never precise because we don't really know much, but you've got the rough size and location of new saxon kingdoms and you can see how british kingdoms were pushed west and made smaller and smaller.

If you like petty kindgdoms... there are at least four kindgoms in the 479 map that cover only 1 or 2 provinces, like Demetia, Siluria, Lleyn... it's surely challenging to play with one of those... because rising in power is going to be damn hard (you'll need to pick allies).

Anyway, I can understand your comment about "fantasy rubbish with Merlin", but I can assure you the Bernard Cornwell books are not fantasy. They are historical-based fiction, there's no magic in there, no spells, no magic swords, everything that happens could have really happened in history, and that's why I love them. You should read how the poor Merlin end up: old and blind and powerless. And drowned (ok, then a huge storm comes, but that's the nice thing... magic or supernatural powers are just "hints" and you, as the characters, can never be sure "was that a coincidence"? ...I love that writing).

Can not reccomend them enough... especially if you DON'T like fantasy!

L.

P.S. A proper Anglo-Saxon mod covering up to 900-1000AD would be great... but it's not my primary intent for now. If anyone is up to the task, it could easily be created and become a 'second part' of this one!
 
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100% agree with you^^

how bigger is your map scale then ?
I'm working actually on a similar project for another region. My scale makes the map ~x5 / x6 bigger

the details on your map are impressive. did you tweak textures ?

Well, I never tried to calculate the exact ratio! Let's see...

In vanilla, the distance between Cape North (Scandinavia's northern cape) and the strait of the Red Sea (southern tip of Arabian peninsula) is 1848 "linear" pixels... in real world is approx. 6500 kilometers (yes I know, earth is round, etc. but CKII map is not).

In my map, 1848 pixels are the distance between Edinburgh and Paris, and in reality that's 870 km.

So here you go... 6500/870... the ratio is 7.5.

The scale of this map is 7.5x the vanilla one. I told you it was a sort of CKII "zoomed in" experience... ;-)

What does your map cover? Is it historical (real world) or fictional (as GOT or Elder Scrolls)? Sorry, just curious!

And to answer your second question: no, I did not change the textures themselves, nor added more. I just tried to use the available ones in the best possible way. I used some of the desert ones for roads etc. since I had no deserts to worry about. Actually I realized that with talent and lots of hard work really amazing maps could be created, way better than this one, or GOTs, or Vanilla. The engine is quite simple and powerful, the problem is the total lack of modding tools! Doing it all with Photoshop and Notepad++ is crazy!

L.
 
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Yes, I plan to have bookmarks in 479, 481 (big difference because a lot of things happen in those two years), around 508 and then around 550. In 550 AD Britain was already half-conquered by Saxons and several of their kingdoms were born: Mercia, Lindsey, Hwicce, Magonsaete, probably also Deira in the north... and sometime later came Northumbria and Wessex... and all these anglo-saxon kingdoms pushed Powys and Dumnonia towards the irish sea and cornwall respectively. As I tried to explain, one of the things that I like more of this mod is its tendency to go as history did. Usually 100 years after game start, the map looks really similar to real historical maps of 600 AD: those are never precise because we don't really know much, but you've got the rough size and location of new saxon kingdoms and you can see how british kingdoms were pushed west and made smaller and smaller.

If you like petty kindgdoms... there are at least four kindgoms in the 479 map that cover only 1 or 2 provinces, like Demetia, Siluria, Lleyn... it's surely challenging to play with one of those... because rising in power is going to be damn hard (you'll need to pick allies).

Anyway, I can understand your comment about "fantasy rubbish with Merlin", but I can assure you the Bernard Cornwell books are not fantasy. They are historical-based fiction, there's no magic in there, no spells, no magic swords, everything that happens could have really happened in history, and that's why I love them. You should read how the poor Merlin end up: old and blind and powerless. And drowned (ok, then a huge storm comes, but that's the nice thing... magic or supernatural powers are just "hints" and you, as the characters, can never be sure "was that a coincidence"? ...I love that writing).

Can not reccomend them enough... especially if you DON'T like fantasy!

L.

P.S. A proper Anglo-Saxon mod covering up to 900-1000AD would be great... but it's not my primary intent for now. If anyone is up to the task, it could easily be created and become a 'second part' of this one!
Oh that's great. I love fantasy, but it's when the wand waving and EXCADABIBABABA rubbish + dragons + white hair comes in that I get annoyed. Partially the reason why I never really got into the GoT books + mod. That, and blobbing. I look forward to playing as Elmet :D. Are we going to be seeing titular kings appear more often during gameplay?
 
Well, I never tried to calculate the exact ratio! Let's see...

In vanilla, the distance between Cape North (Scandinavia's northern cape) and the strait of the Red Sea (southern tip of Arabian peninsula) is 1848 "linear" pixels... in real world is approx. 6500 kilometers (yes I know, earth is round, etc. but CKII map is not).

In my map, 1848 pixels are the distance between Edinburgh and Paris, and in reality that's 870 km.

So here you go... 6500/870... the ratio is 7.5.

The scale of this map is 7.5x the vanilla one. I told you it was a sort of CKII "zoomed in" experience... ;-)

What does your map cover? Is it historical (real world) or fictional (as GOT or Elder Scrolls)? Sorry, just curious!

And to answer your second question: no, I did not change the textures themselves, nor added more. I just tried to use the available ones in the best possible way. I used some of the desert ones for roads etc. since I had no deserts to worry about. Actually I realized that with talent and lots of hard work really amazing maps could be created, way better than this one, or GOTs, or Vanilla. The engine is quite simple and powerful, the problem is the total lack of modding tools! Doing it all with Photoshop and Notepad++ is crazy!

L.

-thanks for the calculation effort I wasn't expecting something so precise^^ well, I'm at 6.2x

-Alps region setup kingdom of Burgundy + North Italy ; year 1032 (so historical). the map itself extends from Burgundy to Rome and from Baleares to Tyrol. 2048*2048 map.

-I find some of the texture too big for the scale (snowy rocks especially but I think you don't use them so much for England^^). yes, the engine is very flexible and powerful.

All made by hand or do you use some semi-automated technics/shortcuts ?
 
Are we going to be seeing titular kings appear more often during gameplay?

Well, that depends on how things go, but I suppose you will. There are several titular kingdoms that can be created and do not exist at game start (in 479 at least). Some are hard to see because it's hard to get the conditions to create them. For example, the Kingdom of the Belgae in southern Britain, you need to be briton, independent, not a king already, and have your capital at Venta. That's not going to happen very often to the AI, because the lords of Venta usually never get powerful enough, they are frequently raided by saxons (jutes actually) from Cantia.

A group of titular titles works in a unique way: the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms and duchies (the still unformed ones). The saxon kingdoms of Mercia and Northumbria and Wessex are all "programmed" in as titular titles (historically, those three alone plus Anglia would cover more than half of britain in 650). Under these kingdoms are several titular Jarldoms (duchies) that, once created, become je dure, destroying the preexisting british duchies (called High Lordships). So if the saxons manage to conquer a lot of british lands, you'll see saxon jarldoms pop up first, and then (if several jarldoms are created) new saxon kingdoms will pop up. And they will be de jure, with jarldoms (duchies) and provinces (counties) below them. The former british ruler will have a custom Casus Belli to try and take his lands back since it has lost any "de jure" claim. It needs mass-playtesting, there could be problems hidden somewhere, but until now it seems to work very well.

I still have to work a lot on Ireland... if anyone has suggestions for irish titular titles, let them come! At game start in 479 Ireland is split into the historical five kingdoms of that time: Ulaid, Connacht(a), Munster, Leinster and Mide. Plus a couple of irish petty kingdoms on the coasts of Britain.
 
PM riadach for Irish stuff; he seems to be very knowledgeable.
 
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