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Ufnal

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Wow, that's a fast response! I'm impressed! :) It certainly encourages to provide more feedback - though I'm not sure if you want more people to spam their thoughts here... ;)

But in case you do - I feel that magicians are very underwhelming. Realm magic isn't that bad (to be fair, I haven't tried realm war magic yet), but during the battles a magician leading a weaker army doesn't seem to change the tide of the battle. It's especially visible in elves vs gnolls or other demihumans battles, where a superior number guarantees the filthy barbarians victory, even when the elven magics should somehow influence the outcome. I'm not sure what exactly I'd like to see done with this problem. In Game of Thrones mod, they use a special battle tactics when dragons are in a battle, that makes the army a lot more powerful (i don't remember the exact numbers, but the bonus was HUGE). Maybe something similar for flanks commanded by magicians?
 

LDRevolution

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Wow, that's a fast response! I'm impressed! :) It certainly encourages to provide more feedback - though I'm not sure if you want more people to spam their thoughts here... ;)

But in case you do - I feel that magicians are very underwhelming. Realm magic isn't that bad (to be fair, I haven't tried realm war magic yet), but during the battles a magician leading a weaker army doesn't seem to change the tide of the battle. It's especially visible in elves vs gnolls or other demihumans battles, where a superior number guarantees the filthy barbarians victory, even when the elven magics should somehow influence the outcome. I'm not sure what exactly I'd like to see done with this problem. In Game of Thrones mod, they use a special battle tactics when dragons are in a battle, that makes the army a lot more powerful (i don't remember the exact numbers, but the bonus was HUGE). Maybe something similar for flanks commanded by magicians?

In D&D mages/wizards are known for being able to become very OP. This hasn't been completely integrated yet, but becoming a high level mage yourself sure is rewarding and more if you get Long Life BP. We also have some nice features planned for magic users the likes of which I will not share yet.

Also we sure dont mind any feedback/bug reports/suggestions on this same thread, I honestly dont see the need of making a separate thread for something that can easily be done here.
 

Blood Royal

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But in case you do - I feel that magicians are very underwhelming. Realm magic isn't that bad (to be fair, I haven't tried realm war magic yet)

If you have a legendary mage/sorcerer, and make a legendary level lightning storm spell, it should give something like 40% damage to both troop size and morale for the opposing side. Lesser versions of the spell do less damage, but in theory it s possible to have a mage turn the side of a batle single-handedly at least. It's based on the dragon fire scripts from GoT, though of course not as powerful. You have to spend time and money making that spell first, however, and once you use it, you have to make another.
 

Blood Royal

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I had a thought actually (with MP games in mind):

The last mega-war we had between two continental factions was pretty stressful in the sense of two sides moving around 160k troops and sieging endless provinces, etc, just for one duchy-gain.

What if we doubled the warscore from battles, and halved it for held territory? Then the mega wars would come down to the great battles (which are fun) instead of the many sieges (which are not so fun).

I did this for the MEP, and it seemed to work really well.

Thoughts?

Edit: I'd also be open to doubling the amount of troops provinces can support without attrition, on that note.
 
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Ufnal

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If you have a legendary mage/sorcerer, and make a legendary level lightning storm spell, it should give something like 40% damage to both troop size and morale for the opposing side. Lesser versions of the spell do less damage, but in theory it s possible to have a mage turn the side of a batle single-handedly at least. It's based on the dragon fire scripts from GoT, though of course not as powerful. You have to spend time and money making that spell first, however, and once you use it, you have to make another.

This is a war realm spell, I presume?


BTW, seeing human lords marry goblin and wraith women is... disturbing.
 

JonStryker

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I had a thought actually (with MP games in mind):

The last mega-war we had between two continental factions was pretty stressful in the sense of two sides moving around 160k troops and sieging endless provinces, etc, just for one duchy-gain.

What if we doubled the warscore from battles, and halved it for held territory? Then the mega wars would come down to the great battles (which are fun) instead of the many sieges (which are not so fun).

I did this for the MEP, and it seemed to work really well.

Thoughts?

Edit: I'd also be open to doubling the amount of troops provinces can support without attrition, on that note.

I am in favor of making battles give more warscore. Changing attrition? Not so much. I haven't played the MEP mod in a while but pretty much disabling this very viable gameplay element wasn't something I particularly liked.
 

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This is a war realm spell, I presume?

BTW, seeing human lords marry goblin and wraith women is... disturbing.

Yes, you can only craft the spell during a war, and only cast it when you yourself are engaged in battle. As for weird marriages, it'll get looked at eventually, but ... I'm still not sure about disabling them entirely. I prefer the infertility fix so at least they won't get weird kids.

I am in favor of making battles give more warscore. Changing attrition? Not so much. I haven't played the MEP mod in a while but pretty much disabling this very viable gameplay element wasn't something I particularly liked.

Yeah, the attrition thing might cripple the strategy aspect of managing your troops wisely. We don't want it to be the battle of the doomstacks where the side with the most numbers always win, but on the other hand, as you and I both know managing 150k+ troops in little stacks of 9k when attacking in enemy territory is kind of a pain. I'd rather have attrition only start at 18k, but... not sure how that would work out in an mp game.

For the next MP campaign, let's try with doubling war score from battles at least and maybe keep the province war-score as-is. In medieval times it often came down to a few big battles after all, and I think it's realistic that they have more of an impact than they do currently.
 

Ufnal

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Two more things:

1. I gather that "Bid for the Iron Throne" no longer works, but a) why? b) why not discard the misleading end of the event chain?

It's a shame really, because I wouldn't have bothered conquering outside Empire's de jure territories. ;P

2. The tourney seems to be bugged. When I tried to do it, i got an event with two options with both event description & the options having corrupted text (some kind of squares? o_O) and when I clicked one of the options the tourney turned into a feast. o_O

Still, I am in awe. This works really, really well! Brechtur is already united, Avanil has a state of cold war between two main powers, the northerners are getting wrecked by White Witch in the west and gnolls/goblins in the east, the eastern elves destroyed the Raven... So much story, so much fun! If only the Gorgon wasn't so passive... ;)
 

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Two more things:

1. I gather that "Bid for the Iron Throne" no longer works, but a) why? b) why not discard the misleading end of the event chain?

It's a shame really, because I wouldn't have bothered conquering outside Empire's de jure territories. ;P

2. The tourney seems to be bugged. When I tried to do it, i got an event with two options with both event description & the options having corrupted text (some kind of squares? o_O) and when I clicked one of the options the tourney turned into a feast. o_O

Still, I am in awe. This works really, really well! Brechtur is already united, Avanil has a state of cold war between two main powers, the northerners are getting wrecked by White Witch in the west and gnolls/goblins in the east, the eastern elves destroyed the Raven... So much story, so much fun! If only the Gorgon wasn't so passive... ;)

Do you care to post a screenshot?
 

Ufnal

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Do you care to post a screenshot?

I would, if I thought of making one when it happened. :/ Silly me, sorry.


But coming back to the Anuire Empire storyline, something is off. The chain of events about making a bid for the Throne was supposed to not work, wasn't it? Then why, after 3 generations of Boeruine Archdukes collecting duchies and kingdoms and fighting with Avanils who hold the second greatest number of holdings in Anuire, suddenly the lord of Ilien becomes an event-propelled Emperor of Anuire, with all the realms not under Boeruine and Avanil [ok, the corpse of Ghoere and the Anuire City abstained, too] swearing fealty to him? o_O This time I do have a screenshot, though I doubt it'll be very useful.


EDIT: A month later, all the realms broke free again erupted into a tyranny war and the Empire of Anuire is just Ilien and 3 provinces they won in wars before. o_O

EDIT2: Now lords of Alamie (who were under Avanil) suddenly snatched the crown. I don't even know what's going on.
And the funniest part? My Boeruine Archduke didn't inherit a claim on Alamie so I can't even try to get what's rightfully mine through conquest. :(
 
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Initially, the Anuire empire storyline went - buy dukes, get x realm size, become emperor.

That turned out to be unbalanced, however, as in MP games it was possible to unite Anuire in 20 years and this wrecked it for everyone else just getting started.

So I removed the event where you get crowned emperor after 125 realm size or whatever it is - now you need the full 80% of duchies, which makes for better MP gameplay at least.

However, another issue came up, and that was me as Elves being able to take on all of Anuire without them doing anyting to stop me, really. So I made a second event chain for unification (and also for Rjurik, Brecht, Khinasi regions) that if they were losing a lot of land to holy wars or subjugations, they would unite.

Now the trick is, when writing this event, I couldn't figure out how to target the most powerful or the most prestigious ruler to give the crown to. So I had to abstract it; any ruler of the proper culture and good side religion with 3000 prestige has a random chance of being declared emperor when the region decides to unite. In a way, it's not such a bad solution - imagine Anuire being split in two between Boeruine and Avanil; they can't decide on who gets the throne, but they certainly don't want their rival to get it. So a compromise candidate in this case was selected, the prestigious ruler of Ilien.

In some games the "council" will decide to pick Avanil, Boeruine, or whatever, but it'll always be a high prestige candidate.

As for your edits: That's proly WAD; certain old Anuireans dynasties have claims to e_anuire, so when the title forms, they make a new grab for it.

EDIT: You say Brechtur united... who were they under attack from, if you say the Gorgon was idle? Hehe, we're always eager to hear about gameplay stuff, as we actually spend most of our time modding, and not playing the actual mod :p
 
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LDRevolution

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EDIT2: Now lords of Alamie (who were under Avanil) suddenly snatched the crown. I don't even know what's going on.
And the funniest part? My Boeruine Archduke didn't inherit a claim on Alamie so I can't even try to get what's rightfully mine through conquest. :(

Certain anuirean houses can claim the Iron Throne through their close kinship with the now extinct imperial line.

EDIT: Also some rulers that do not have connections to the IT still claim to be the next rulers staking their claim; Gavin Tael of Ghoere and Jaison Raenech of Osoerde.
 

JonStryker

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I think the new duchies look nice (the ones agreed upon before):
e07WCk5.jpg



Ugly hills view:
69shyWN.jpg
 
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Blood Royal

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maybe there should be special trait add to the character when save 80% that would flag them as choice as emperor?

But why? When you have 80% of the provinces you need, you can already form the empire...

I think the new duchies look nice (the ones agreed upon before):


They do!
 

Ufnal

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Initially, the Anuire empire storyline went - buy dukes, get x realm size, become emperor.

That turned out to be unbalanced, however, as in MP games it was possible to unite Anuire in 20 years and this wrecked it for everyone else just getting started.

So I removed the event where you get crowned emperor after 125 realm size or whatever it is - now you need the full 80% of duchies, which makes for better MP gameplay at least.

However, another issue came up, and that was me as Elves being able to take on all of Anuire without them doing anyting to stop me, really. So I made a second event chain for unification (and also for Rjurik, Brecht, Khinasi regions) that if they were losing a lot of land to holy wars or subjugations, they would unite.

Now the trick is, when writing this event, I couldn't figure out how to target the most powerful or the most prestigious ruler to give the crown to. So I had to abstract it; any ruler of the proper culture and good side religion with 3000 prestige has a random chance of being declared emperor when the region decides to unite. In a way, it's not such a bad solution - imagine Anuire being split in two between Boeruine and Avanil; they can't decide on who gets the throne, but they certainly don't want their rival to get it. So a compromise candidate in this case was selected, the prestigious ruler of Ilien.

In some games the "council" will decide to pick Avanil, Boeruine, or whatever, but it'll always be a high prestige candidate.

As for your edits: That's proly WAD; certain old Anuireans dynasties have claims to e_anuire, so when the title forms, they make a new grab for it.

Thank you for the explanation, seems well-thought and legit. ;) Although there were no real attacks from the outside that I've noticed (it worked much better with Brecht, which united because of enormous pressure from various monstrous realms - the chain of events proceeded naturally and seamlessly, I loved it!), and Avanil immediately started a war to get the crown for themselves [btw, neither them nor my realm had any chance at being proposed as emperors, because we spent our Prestige on convincing the dukes to become our vassals... -.- Maybe number of holdings instead of Prestige?], so the compromise doesn't seem that likely story-wise. I'd go with bribes and schemes and stealing the imperial crown, myself. ;)

However, I'd suggest that the main lines of Anuireans (Brecht, Avanil, Boeruine) automatically inherited the imperial claim. I lost mine as Boeruine in ~3 generations. :(
 

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Glad you're enjoying the mod! Next time you play, try and see if anyone has taken 30 anuirean cultured provinces, because it really shouldn't trigger unless that is the case... the unification event for Anuire. Maybe someone got maimed, turned to Kriesha religion or something to cure it, and started holy warring his neighbors? The fear factor/unification counter will still apply if a non-gods-of-good religion guy with Anuirean culture attacks his neighbors.

And if you play a very long game (100+ years) we'd like to see screenshots of how the political map looks as well :)

As for using holding size - again, the problem is that I can't find a command that says "has the *most* prestige, or has the *most* holdings"... so if I set it to holding size, say 75, if no one has 75 holdings, then the unification event will never trigger.
 

Ufnal

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I'm not sure which is more likely, there being nobody with 75 holdings or nobody with 3k Prestige. ;)

I'm at 1605 if I remember correctly, screenshots + some commentary of how things happened can be arranged if you wish. ;)
 

Ufnal

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So, the year is 1608 and the political situation in the land of Cerilia is as follows:

Birthright.jpg

Let's go clockwise from the Rjurik. The Highlands are for the most part the White Witch's turf. There is also a significant presence of my Boeruine forces, as I have conquered one of the local duchies to overthrow its outlaw overlord (and put another outlaw in his place, whom I have repeatedly tried to convert, to no avail -.-). I have also had some skirmishes with local lords as well as wrestled two more valuable provinces from the Witch. Apart from that, the local powers are the goblin Black Skull Barony, some giant tribes (which seem to have no special traits, making them quite weak... Also one of their leaders is a half-elf and a train magician, who is also Attractive and Quick o_O), the Siren's land, the Elves of Lluabraight (currently conquering the giants and marrying with them o_O) and Svinik, whose lords intermarried with frickin' Wraiths a few generations ago, which led to some very strange looking Rjuriki [is that the correct plural form?]. The honest-to-Erik kings of Halskapa and Stjordvik probably feel pretty alienated in this company. ;) Oh, and in the East they got their arses kicked by the Brecht. It's a sad time to be a Rjurik.

The Brechtür are united again. I am very pleased with this region, story-wise, as they have cast aside their differences and united despite no single strong contender (only the League of Rheulgard, Grabentod and two tiny Kingdoms in Rohrmarch abstained) and for a good reason. The Gorgon took a few provinces in the west, the Vampires in the south, the Gnolls of the Gnoll Fells in the east (before the dwarves drove them away; and anyway they mostly concentrating on chewing on the local Rjurik enclaves. Poor Rjurik). The most powerful foe of the Brecht way of life, as well as the most powerful realm of the whole Cerilia (at least in terms of numbers) is, however, the goblin realm of Kal Kalathor. Although they took only one Brecht province, they are a threat enough to justify the recreation of united Brechtür. The goblin menace conquered the whole Great Steppe and Rhzlev, as well as making some incursions further east and the already mentioned Brecht province. What is more, the ruling clan of Kal Kalathor managed to bloodtheft some Masela bloodline, which is probably one of the reasons why the current ruler has a Negotiation score of 38 (sic!), along with Long Life, Divine Aura and two other blood powers, and a lot of good traits (Kind, Zealous, Ambitious, Mystic... Seriously?!?), which keeps the whole realm loyal to him. Basically, his Vos neighbours are pretty much f***ed.

Speaking of Vos, there's not that much left of them. There's Lutkhovsky and Melyy, as well as some sad remains of the Rhzlev kingdom on the east coast and the only semi-powerful Vos realm, Yeninkiy Kingdom (btw, those Vos names are kinda hilarious to me as a Slavic person xD). What didn't fall prey to the goblins was conquered by King Allan of Cwmb Bheinn. Basically, he decided that the Raven was a nuisance (if I remember this right, he was close to conquering the whole Dragon Coast), so the elves rotflstomped him when I wasn't looking. There are some Vos underlings converted to Nature worship, but much of the ex-Vos land is now in elven hands. As for the Raven, he had to flee to Malyy court and finally "died in a suspicious accident", leaving behind a dynasty of 27 living members, not counting the descendants of his daughters (he sired 23 children, most of them powerful mages with high intellect traits and Fear blood power).

The land of Khinasi is also quite interesting. The Western Khinasi have destroyed the Sphinx and unified their lands (although it was not the powerful, unified Al Ariya that got the crown, but the smaller Al Malakeh. [BTW, there seem to be two king-tier titles for Al Ariya - "Sheikhdom of Ariya" and "Balad Al Ariya", and the first one is incorporating some land from the second one, despite both being in hands of the same person, who BTW I supposed would be the Khinasi Emperor). The reason for the unification was probably what's happening in the Southeast - the Ghul is ever-threatening (although in process of being conquered by Kal Khalator, of all things), the Snake has crafted himself quite a realm both on the isles and in the mainland (by conquering most of Khourane, leaving it's ruler with no option but to join the Khinasi Empire), Djafra is torn apart by a civil war, Merasaf is half-dead and the Magian is doing quite well, even managing to skirmish with the Serpent. The other power that could stand against The Serpent was, funnily enough, The Lances of Dawn, which invaded his lands and hit hard enough for the Khinasi to be able to mount a counteroffensive against the dreaded Awnsheghlien. The only Khinasi power in the far east is Min Dhousai, a realm of Cuiraécen-worshipers. BTW, the Khinasi Empress is a Laerme worshiper. Strange, I would've thought they'd want an Avani worshiper.

[this is btw one of my biggest problems with this mod - although I understand the engine limitations, it makes worshipers of different Gods of Good hate each other (quite hard, if they have a Zealous trait or sth), which I don't like; maybe treating "Gods of good" as religion and assigning specific god worship by traits would be better? It would simulate d&d henotheism quite well, but on the other hand there seems to be more conflict between the churches of Gods of Good in Birthright than, say, in Forgotten Realms, so I don't really know... :(

And as I'm already offtopicing, I found it strange that the various churches and religious orders spent most of their time warring with their lords trying to revoke their lands. The CK mechanics of desiring holdings in counties you control does that, but I'm not sure if it's realistic in Birthright setting? I'm still not really knowledgeable about it...]


And finally we're getting into my familiar territory. Anuire. As you can see, the region is divided between 3 main powers: Boeruine, Avanil and the Empire [ruled by the lord of Alamie]. My Boeruine is currently conquering Diemed due to my favourite scheme - first I helped one of my subjects that had a Diemed claim get the Diemed throne and break free from the Empire, and then when he thought he'd just be independent I reminded him that he's my subject (in game terms - got a Diemed claim for him breaking free) and voila - an easy conquest incoming. I've done the same with Taeghas (only then they were breaking free of Avanil control). My Boeruine also conquered the goblins, outlaws and other scum in the north, impressed the rulers of Cariele and Mhoried with Prestige, convinced Dhoesone (whose ruler is my current Archduke's grandmother) that they should join (the two main reasons were probably me forming the Kingdom of Northern Marches and the argument "C'mon grandma, I'm your only heir anyway) and bribed the Imperial City into vassalage. Meanwhile the Avanil managed to conquer almost all of Ghoere as well as incorporating Alamie (until they snatched the Emperorship) and Tuornen. The Empire situation I described a few posts ago, basically I have no idea how and why that happened (Osoerde and Ghoere are parts of the Empire btw, only in a tyranny war. Meanwhile, the Avanil are warring to put somebody else on the throne, but not their current ruler, despite him having a claim. Strange. o_O) Meanwhile, the Spider fell in a battle, quite fast too, and Rhuobhe got conquered by me also with no problem (maybe because I managed to catch his army without him leading?) and now plots his revenge at the court of one of Tuarhievel's Vassals. BTW, Tuarhievel became a Gheallie Sidhe realm and did some invading on Dhoesone (despite their rulers being close kin with the lady of Dhoesone). I managed to win a war with them and get one of Dhoesone provinces back, albeit only after some save-loading and getting to understand precisely how the various bonuses from traits worked (and why a 26 military guy can be less effective than a 19 military brave sorceress). Finding their main stack without their ruler as a commander helped, too. Still, it was a hard battle even at 13k men vs 9k elves. Fear the Hunt.


Ok so that's it for now, hope it wasn't too long nor boring. ;) And to the creators of this mod - thank you! It's already as good, if not better, strategic story-telling machine then the original game, and a wonderful tribute to Birthright! <3
 
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