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Battle Resolution enhanced.

This small mod attempts to resolve some of the issues I have with the battle system that Paradox have presented and the 98% of the time, foregone results that come from it. Although not a modder (some Total war), I have based my changes on what I feel is right after playing wargames for many, many years. :eek:hmy:

The mod is now available as 3 types;

Lite version 1.5: Mod friendly....no changing of files.
Siege events 1.5: Six siege events to add a bit more variety.
Full version: W.I.P. Next version will add full culture specific armies and tactics.

Updated for 1.5c Paradox patch.

1.5 Lite

* Slight changes for Paradox 1.5b patch.

* Added some culture specific tactics (more to come).

* Added 'Prepare for melee phase' (The side who changes first will benefit).

* Most tactics now have a attack or defense type.

* Flanks should pick a more suitable counter-tactic.

1.0e Lite

* Reworked tactic modifiers

* 10 new tactics based on traits which are;

1) For the King......My favourite, this tactic can change a battle.

2 & 3) Prepared positions......A defensive tactic for both Skirmish & Melee.

4) Daring Attack.......You need the brave trait for this one.

5) Knight's Charge......Only for heavy horse.

6) Charge of Folly......Pride comes before a fall.

7) Cavalry Flank Attack......Light or Heavy will do.

8) Lethal Volley......Unleash Hell.

9) Ambush.......Clever brilliant strategist.

10) Last Stand.....The name says it all.

For all the above tactics, I have used the swarm volley icon to show that a special tactic is being used. I tried to have additional icons made, but it seems that can not be done at present.

* I changed the martial ranking system as follows;

1) Basic....Just basic modifier, same as leaderless flank.

2) Normal..Slightly better than basic.

3) Good....Better than normal.

* Flank Morale....Based on suggestions by Guildencrantz ;) Flanks will now break at different values according to leader traits. i.e. A flank led by a craven leader will break much sooner than one led by a brave one. So if your skilled tactician happens to be craven, watch out!

Note: In the Lite version, the morale breaking point is 25 (vanilla setting) This will mean that leaderless flanks can outlast poorer led flanks. In the full version, I have adjusted accordingly.

* Pursuit.....You can only pursue now if you have Light Cavalry. This may or may not work :)

1.0d

* Updated combat tactics selection

* Added 2 siege events

1.0c

* Fixed & updated trigger prerequisites for tactics availability

* Added Feint & Stand Fast tactics

1.0b

* Added small defense bonus to applicable units in Plain terrain.

* Defender bonus against Naval Invasion done.

* Siege time is now back to vanilla setting.

* Increased sailing time in high seas slightly.

* Reworked combat tactics based on a concept by Six gun south

* Leader martial skill now more important in selecting a better tactic
from three types of modifier; Poor, Normal & Good

* Simplified tactics available to three for skirmish & three for melee
plus a couple of vanilla ones.

* Added separate localization file for modified tactics.

1.0

* Modified all three phases of combat unit stats (Archers and light horse are now more deadlier in skirmish, horse archers nerfed slightly)etc

* Changed morale values for all units except light infantary & heavy horse

* Added defensive bonus to certain troops in Forest terrain

* Increased defender bonus to certain troops in appropriate terrain

* Attacking across rivers and straits is now harder

* Slightly increased mountain defense factor

* Changed siege morale loss to compensate for changes made to units
Mediafire: Battle mod V1.5 Lite
Stick in your mod folder and select from start screen.

I would like feedback on this, positive or negative. I have only tested in european battles so far.

Also available in;

REALITY KINGS 1066

The Prince and the Thane

and elements of;

Project Rodrigo


Link for my new Siege events v1.5. Read the included readme file.

Mediafire: Siege events v1.5


Many thanks to Six Gun South for his concept on battle tactics which I used as a basis for my version.
Thanks to Guildencrantz for his flank morale suggestions and Avee allowing testing to be much easier :) and of course his Death Causes mod.
Thanks also to Kaivin for allowing me to modify his modifiers :)


To do when time & inspirition allows;

* Add new siege events - WIP
* Add new tactics...10 done...more to come
* Loss of flank or centre leader during combat impacting morale loss on that flank - Done
* Attrition losses to forces laying siege
* Increasing force amount needed to lay siege (Maybe hardcoded)
* Using leader traits to have more impact on how they behave during combat - Done
* Tweaks to defender bonus and unit stats as needed - WIP
* Naval invasion to be done - Done
* Defender bonus on Plains terrain (Defender normally picked the battle position so sounds reasonable) - Done


I have no problem with this mod or parts of, being used in other mods AS LONG AS permission and/or credit is given.
Those who do not (you know who you are) will be thrown in the dungeon and left to rot.
:mad:

•Events: 1.000.062.000 - 1.000.062.999
 
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steveuk666

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About the mod...a brief explanation of what it does and why I made that decision.​

The mod is split over 4 main components which are;

Unit stats: (Not in Lite version)

Just tweaking of Attack/Defence and Morale values.

Example: Vanilla morale for archers was 1 yet for light infantry it was 3. Now in my understanding of medieval warfare why would light infantry which in reality was the local peasantry called up to fight, have more morale than a unit that possessed a skill?
Of course it would have been better for Paradox to have separated peasants and light infantry as there were trained soldiers who could be regarded as light (some pike units for example). So to make the best of a bad situation I increased archers to 3 which seems a reasonable assumption.
I have made changes to the majority of the units, all subject to further tweaking of course.


Defender bonus: (Not in Lite version)

I have made a lot of changes to this over vanilla settings giving the defender quite a lot of help. I have used tactical modifiers in a strategic setting. The actual notion that you could only attack an army by crossing a river in say Essex is ridiculous. But as the scale of the provinces consists of only one terrain type, there is no other option.
I further based the bonus on the assumption that the defender would in most cases, have chosen the terrain to fight on.


Combat tactics:

The latest version 1.5, further refines what leaders can and cannot do depending on their skill/traits and also adds some culture specific tactics to the mix. Leader traits now have more influence over tactic availability and morale threshold. New tactics have been added which are only available if the leader has the required trait.


Siege: (Not in Lite version) but available as seperate download.

An attempt to try and get some more realism in the game and my first go at understanding event scripts.

Plague: The defending holding is infected by the plague. The garrison surrenders...siege over.

Reinforcement: The defending holding is reinforced. This can lead to the attacking force not having enough to continue the siege as some attackers give up in despair. New event to include player reinforced.

Surrender: A cowardly commander may rather surrender than fight.

Siege engine: The use of siege engines can quicken the inevitable.

Surrender: Another surrender event with dual choice outcome.

I hope to write many more siege events and as my knowledge of the system increases, hopefully they will be more entertaining.


Thanks to Baneslave and others for answering my persistent questions :)
 
Last edited:

unmerged(464250)

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Is there anyway you can "randomly" boost a side's effective combat value by between 1x and 3x? And perhaps make this depend on variables or traits which the leaders possess?

Is there anyway you can make combat less deadly so that more troops are likely to survive in 50% of cases?
 

steveuk666

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Is there anyway you can "randomly" boost a side's effective combat value by between 1x and 3x? And perhaps make this depend on variables or traits which the leaders possess?

Is there anyway you can make combat less deadly so that more troops are likely to survive in 50% of cases?
1) I would like to link troop stats more closely to the leaders traits, unfortunately I have not found a way yet.

2) You can change the death rate in combat. Not sure about 50% of the time though. You could increase the value that a unit breaks which is 25% at the moment.
 

unmerged(464250)

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Thanks for your response...

So, they always break at 25%? This has nothing do with morale? (Sorry I don't understand this yet). It might be one reason why battles so often end in total elimination of one side or another. I think this might be a tad overdone.

Can you "roll a die" and randomly multiply a side's overall "combat value" by 3 or divide it by 3? In anyway? For the duration of the combat? Through any trick of coding?

If you could do this and somehow come up with a way to modify this die roll by certain skills, I think the combat system would be much better off.

What if someone were a "great horseman", you you assign a 15% chance that the horse in battle would gain a 25% bonus?
 

steveuk666

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Thanks for your response...

So, they always break at 25%? This has nothing do with morale? (Sorry I don't understand this yet). It might be one reason why battles so often end in total elimination of one side or another. I think this might be a tad overdone.

Can you "roll a die" and randomly multiply a side's overall "combat value" by 3 or divide it by 3? In anyway? For the duration of the combat? Through any trick of coding?

If you could do this and somehow come up with a way to modify this die roll by certain skills, I think the combat system would be much better off.

What if someone were a "great horseman", you you assign a 15% chance that the horse in battle would gain a 25% bonus?
The 25% is for morale. Basically, when a flank or centre takes damage, it reduces morale until =<25% and then routs and the victorious flank switches to pursue mode.

I see no way at present for adding random seeds, but there are some good modders on here that may be able to answer that for you.
 

unmerged(464250)

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Or, what if a general were a "great tactician", could you have his army retreat at 40% morale if losing?

Or not engage at all if outnumbered by X%? (I have no clue as to how retreating is handled)
 

steveuk666

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Or, what if a general were a "great tactician", could you have his army retreat at 40% morale if losing?

Or not engage at all if outnumbered by X%? (I have no clue as to how retreating is handled)
1) AFAIK no. As I mentioned above, the retreat kicks in when morale on that flank drops to 25%. I have found no way as of yet to change that flanks morale in relation to traits exhibited by that flanks commander.

2) AFAIK hardcoded and can not be changed

At the moment, no one really seems to have got to grips with the combat system or indeed understood it. With my limited knowledge I know you can;

- increase/decrease casualties
- change the morale breaking point (but not individually - using leader traits - per flank) etc
- increase/decrease chances of leaders getting killed, wounded etc (not in effect until after combat) although trying some things on this!
- alter the flanking and martial bonus

and thats about it.
 

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I've been screwing around with the combat system as well, focusing on combat_tactics.txt, my mini-mod can be found here, care to join forces? It's a small tweak, but I'm gaining some understanding of the system, and tactics are its most dynamic part. There are limitations, for example you can't have leaders match their tactics, as there don't seem to be any triggers related to enemy morale or behavior, but you can do quite a lot with them.

Edit: Actually, a second look through the files made me realize that I was wrong, you can use the "enemy" scope and affect the likelihood of certain tactics and they do counter each other. This could change a lot and we could manage the probability a lot better, for instance affect the likelihood of making mistakes.

* Using leader traits to have more impact on how they behave during combat (Again, help please modders)
I'm working on exactly what you mentioned above. This is fairly easy to do, especially with the rationalized probabilities in my mod that make calculations easier. I'm thinking of a simple 10% bonus/malus to various tactics (factor 1.1 or factor 0.9), e.g. brave and wroth leaders are 10% more likely to charge or advance (and cravens 10% less likely), patient ones more likely to shieldwall, stand fast or use volleys, deceitful prefer raids over straight-up attacks, et cetera. Later on I might design some traits describing preferred command styles, 1 per character gained when they first lead a flank, but that's further down the road.

I believe it's likely the morale breaking point can potentially be altered per leader, since it's in that file coded as an MTTH and those are susceptible to factors.
 
Last edited:

Syren

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Nice work both of you, combat is one of the most undeveloped parts of the game and I am looking forward to modders changing that.
 

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I've been screwing around with the combat system as well, focusing on combat_tactics.txt, my mini-mod can be found here, care to join forces? It's a small tweak, but I'm gaining some understanding of the system, and tactics are its most dynamic part. There are limitations, for example you can't have leaders match their tactics, as there don't seem to be any triggers related to enemy morale or behavior, but you can do quite a lot with them.

Edit: Actually, a second look through the files made me realize that I was wrong, you can use the "enemy" scope and affect the likelihood of certain tactics and they do counter each other. This could change a lot and we could manage the probability a lot better, for instance affect the likelihood of making mistakes.



I'm working on exactly what you mentioned above. This is fairly easy to do, especially with the rationalized probabilities in my mod that make calculations easier. I'm thinking of a simple 10% bonus/malus to various tactics (factor 1.1 or factor 0.9), e.g. brave and wroth leaders are 10% more likely to charge or advance (and cravens 10% less likely), patient ones more likely to shieldwall, stand fast or use volleys, deceitful prefer raids over straight-up attacks, et cetera. Later on I might design some traits describing preferred command styles, 1 per character gained when they first lead a flank, but that's further down the road.

I believe it's likely the morale breaking point can potentially be altered per leader, since it's in that file coded as an MTTH and those are susceptible to factors.
Hi,

I played around with the original combat_tactics from CK2 but decided to use them in a much more refined way. As they stood, I thought it gave too much power to large empires as of course they produce many more leaders.

I like the sound of what you have done by trying to make a more exact marshall rating pay dividends but what I wanted to do in time was make those dividends quite refined.

For example;

Skimish phase - should only benefit: Archers - L.Cavalry - H.Archers and probably L.Infantary as well

Starting at 10% and upwards benefit depending on tactic chosen which of course depends on the leaders skill. How many levels do you have?

My main goal originally was to have morale as the big factor in warfare because leaders played such a huge part in keeping their men together. Unfortunately lack of time and knowledge of the scripting system has meant no real progress on that front.

I will download your file and have a look in game and if agreeable, perhaps we can team up or keep seperate but help each other out. Either way, maybe I could use your file to save starting from scratch and make changes as I proposed above....of course I would give full credit :p
 

unmerged(464250)

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Nice work both of you, combat is one of the most undeveloped parts of the game and I am looking forward to modders changing that.
+1
 

unmerged(464250)

Second Lieutenant
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I still think the greatest weakness of the system is *always* giving the same bonuses in every situation.

For intsance, if you are in a "mountain" region, you always get the same bonus. But this depeneded on the leaders tactical/operational skills. It was entirely possible that a good maneuverer could force someone who was on the tactical defensive to going to the tactical offensive -- putting the erstwhile defender on the offensive and giving the "invader" the mountain bonus.

Here's one... how about taking a certain pass before your enemy does and then forcing him to come at you through a combination of political and operation circumstances?

Or, the "invader" could simply maneuver so as to negate the "defensive bonus of the mountains".

I would *prefer* a system where if you were in the mountains, you would have a 2 in 10 chance of getting a strong bonus, a 4 in 10 chance of getting a medium bonus and then having these rolls modified by your own general and your opposing general's relevant modifiers.
 

steveuk666

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Apr 17, 2009
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first questions first:
inter-mod compatibility?
This will work with any mod that does not change the following;

static_modifiers
defines.lua
terrain
combat_tactics

Even if the mod in question is using one of the above, it could be easily integrated.