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Pirisinian

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I've noticed that Hellenic seems to be popping up around the same time as fore or pan-Hellenic. Isn't the whole point that those religions eventually become Hellenic? It's not like it was the result of a reform either because it always happens to a tiny random country and has at best 40 MA.

Also, is there any way of telling where the holy sites are? 'cause right now I have to click on each individual province with that religion.

Edit: I wish there was a way of restoring the de jure duchies immediately. As it is all the holy wars become immediately voided because the de jure duchy does not exist
 
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Nivve

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I've noticed that Hellenic seems to be popping up around the same time as fore or pan-Hellenic. Isn't the whole point that those religions eventually become Hellenic? It's not like it was the result of a reform either because it always happens to a tiny random country and has at best 40 MA.

Also, is there any way of telling where the holy sites are? 'cause right now I have to click on each individual province with that religion.

Edit: I wish there was a way of restoring the de jure duchies immediately. As it is all the holy wars become immediately voided because the de jure duchy does not exist

Hellenic is a decision IIRC which can be used when the religion you have now is lower than 45 MA (or something similar). So that explains why a lone county could switch over, as the ruler has the decision. I will check which file it is and remove this in the next version, as you are completely right, the old religions are unwanted here.

It is too bad, but there is absolutely no way of editing map modes for the holy regions. However, I can see about making a decision which spams you an event for every holy region with their location. It's not pretty, but it's way easier then clicking the individual provinces (which is a pain, I agree).

About the holy wars, I was not yet aware that they invalidate upon loading, I will see to fix it. The bad thing is that there is always a delay in events and hence the de jure duchies will be gone for a few days. What I can do, is changing the holy war casus belli itself, so it doesn't invalidates when (d_)k_europa is the de jure liege.

All added to the issue list :)

Is there a trick to getting a kingdom? I'm currently sitting on all of Ireland, but no option to go higher than a duchy.

How many duchies do you have? You only need three to create a kingdom title. If you have only two, you can even declare war across a sea province to get a third one.
If you have three, follow this procedure to see why you cannot create the title. If the title is not listed, report back here , as I will then see why it is not there and fix it for the next version.
(it's in the spoiler of the post; it is mentioning a duchy title, but you can look for the kingdom title in the same way).
 

Nivve

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I've noticed that Hellenic seems to be popping up around the same time as fore or pan-Hellenic. Isn't the whole point that those religions eventually become Hellenic? It's not like it was the result of a reform either because it always happens to a tiny random country and has at best 40 MA.

Also, is there any way of telling where the holy sites are? 'cause right now I have to click on each individual province with that religion.

Edit: I wish there was a way of restoring the de jure duchies immediately. As it is all the holy wars become immediately voided because the de jure duchy does not exist

Just a small question: Do you really mean holy wars and not the Kingdom ambition casus belli?
As far as I saw the kingdom ambition indeed invalidates (0.23 has that fixed), while the holy wars have no issue with de jure/de facto exchanges...

0.23 has a decision which shows a list of all holy sites. It's not the most pretty system (the 'list' is a series of decisions you can show/hide), but it's pretty much working. It also mentions the religion of the province the holy region is situated in.
Also a large amount of other fixes, of which a large amount unmentioned as they are fixes based on the validator, not debugging.
 

Pirisinian

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Just a small question: Do you really mean holy wars and not the Kingdom ambition casus belli?
As far as I saw the kingdom ambition indeed invalidates (0.23 has that fixed), while the holy wars have no issue with de jure/de facto exchanges...

0.23 has a decision which shows a list of all holy sites. It's not the most pretty system (the 'list' is a series of decisions you can show/hide), but it's pretty much working. It also mentions the religion of the province the holy region is situated in.
Also a large amount of other fixes, of which a large amount unmentioned as they are fixes based on the validator, not debugging.

Well as far as I can tell, the moment I load a save I can see that my country is on a holy war for a duchy. Then the day after I press play the war is completely gone with no message or anything. Understandable, since you can't holy war if all the duchies are titular.

Example: wars beforehand

2014-03-09_00001.jpg

And wars after:

2014-03-09_00002.jpg

I didn't cheat to get that money btw. By the middle-late game everyone is rolling in cash.
 
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Nivve

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Well as far as I can tell, the moment I load a save I can see that my country is on a holy war for a duchy. Then the day after I press play the war is completely gone with no message or anything. Understandable, since you can't holy war if all the duchies are titular.

Example: wars beforehand

View attachment 103417

And wars after:

View attachment 103418

I didn't cheat to get that money btw. By the middle-late game everyone is rolling in cash.

Interesting. I will have to think about the holy-wars and see whether I can cheat the system to make them stay.

And I am not too worried about the cash, currently there is little to prevent counties from getting a large amount of holdings, which is probably one of the main reasons behind that.
(I am still working on destroying holdings and limiting the holding creation further)
If after the system is compelte, people still get rich too easily I will have to look further for causes and measures.
 

Pirisinian

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And I am not too worried about the cash, currently there is little to prevent counties from getting a large amount of holdings, which is probably one of the main reasons behind that.
(I am still working on destroying holdings and limiting the holding creation further)
If after the system is compelte, people still get rich too easily I will have to look further for causes and measures.

Yeah, I know it's kind of unavoidable. Seems like the same thing happened in normal ck2+ as well.

It just removes a lot of the challenge later on as wars swiftly become games of "who can hire the most mercenaries first"
 

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Gave the mod a try and discovered an interesting issue. I got to an unreformed Aztec religion and came to find I got a not raiding debuf however the religion doesn't allow raiding might want to ether allow looting for the religion or take the debuff off in its current setup it just gets plan annoying and punishing for no good reason.
 

Nivve

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Yeah, I know it's kind of unavoidable. Seems like the same thing happened in normal ck2+ as well.

It just removes a lot of the challenge later on as wars swiftly become games of "who can hire the most mercenaries first"

I will add it to the issue_list in any case, so at least I will not forget about it. Then I will see when I am balancing later whether to do something about it or not (or mention it in the devchat for ck2+... not sure which is better).
Edit: Do you still have the save game? That would make debugging easier (it takes some time for an observe game to reach holy-warring status).


Gave the mod a try and discovered an interesting issue. I got to an unreformed Aztec religion and came to find I got a not raiding debuf however the religion doesn't allow raiding might want to ether allow looting for the religion or take the debuff off in its current setup it just gets plan annoying and punishing for no good reason.

Well, the religions are directly copied from vanilla/ck2plus, so I am not sure whether this is also present in the normal game. However for the time being I will just put raiding on, would make sense for pagans anyway.
Thanks for reporting it.
Edit: fixed in 0.24
 
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Nivve

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0.24
A very large amount of changes, so we'll have to see how it now plays out.
Religions are revamped because the random_lists are almost worthless (anyone noticed how much selenism spawned compared to the others... ridiculous...) and I have run most files through the validator again to catch a few stranded errors.
Also I included a draft of the elementalist faiths, even though I mentioned I wouldn't. They will spawn less frequently later (I still find them weird), but it will be fun having them in nonetheless.
And a lot of stuff I am too lazy to mention here :happy:


Edit: I have not been able to fix the holy wars becoming invalid when loading a game... the cause is still eluding me (as the valid doesn't mention de jure stuff at all).
 
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Pirisinian

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0.24
Religions are revamped because the random_lists are almost worthless (anyone noticed how much selenism spawned comapred tot he others... ridiculous...)

Heh. I just though I was being paranoid.

And yeah, I'll get that save to you as soon as I can.
 

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...Why in all my games the cultures and religions are spawning in exactly same places where they are in vanilla? After few months, when they got all spawned, it just turns into normal game with all counties independent.
 

Nivve

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...Why in all my games the cultures and religions are spawning in exactly same places where they are in vanilla? After few months, when they got all spawned, it just turns into normal game with all counties independent.

snip... It may be that there is a bug/wrong install/anything else at play here.. So just ignore the spoilered text for now as I may (or may not) have messed up 0.24 myself.
On the religions... that couldn't be farther from how it is in the mod. Random religions spawn and spread and the basic religions form a mingled vanilla pagan religion or a new monotheistic religion. If it doesn't you may have installed the mod wrong or encountered a severe bug of some kind I have not seen myself.

On the cultures, it is true that they roughly spawn in the same area. This was mainly due to portraits and graphics of the cultures. However the cultures spawn in their bubbles (so german will roughly spawn around germany) randomly and then spread randomly outward. In some games this resulted in a very familiar pattern, however I have had some games where slavic almost reached the west coast and the mingled cultures therefore starting popping up in that region. Which is the second difference, the mingling of the cultures. Girafee made a very nice system in which the borders between the cultures spawn a mingled form of said culture. Since the borders are in different places every game (as I mentioned, slavic can even reach that far west and border celtic), this presents a very different set-up of cultures, without the loss of immersion due to black-skinned people up in northern Sweden.

I suspect that there is something wrong with the installation on your end, as I don't recognise what you mention in any of my test games.
Is everyone supposed to be Ancestor Worship? 'Cause I feel like I did something wrong
Fresh installs of 0.24 (vanilla and ck2plus) seem to work fine on my end. Make sure to completely remove the old folder before copying the new one.


Edit: just noticed that the vanilla version has the CoAs misaligned. Remove the 'd_motanic.txt' file in '\\AND_vanilla\history\titles' to fix it.
 
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On the religions... that couldn't be farther from how it is in the mod. Random religions spawn and spread and the basic religions form a mingled vanilla pagan religion or a new monotheistic religion. If it doesn't you may have installed the mod wrong or encountered a severe bug of some kind I have not seen myself.

I've seen this as well. The thing I've noticed is that the installs I've tried have kept the vanilla rulers in place, with the same religions and cultures as they would in vanilla. That's why it's keeping the religions and cultures from vanilla. I'm assuming there's something wrong with the install, but I'm not sure what the problem is.
 

Nivve

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I've seen this as well. The thing I've noticed is that the installs I've tried have kept the vanilla rulers in place, with the same religions and cultures as they would in vanilla. That's why it's keeping the religions and cultures from vanilla. I'm assuming there's something wrong with the install, but I'm not sure what the problem is.

The issue sounds exactly like a dependency issue (so the vanilla files are loaded after the mod files, hence vanilla rulers are the holders of the provinces as the vanilla title files overwrite the KA title files), hence my inherent suspicion that the mod is installed wrong.

To be sure I will test it again when my buddy is awake (he is sleeping next to my pc), my laptop apparently cannot run the game..
I will also mention the checksum that you should have on a fresh install.
 
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Might I suggest having a religion capable of spawning only once and then spreading rather than seemingly literally appearing all over the map at random? As I was the only Animist in the South of Italy (Er, and in Europe outside of the far eastern part of the map actually) not only did I lack any useful alliances, the AI did as well (as there were around 4 different religions in the South of Italy alone)

EDIT: Also, apparently you can't have 6 counties in a duchy, shouldn't 6 be the limit, not 5?
 
Last edited:

Nivve

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I've seen this as well. The thing I've noticed is that the installs I've tried have kept the vanilla rulers in place, with the same religions and cultures as they would in vanilla. That's why it's keeping the religions and cultures from vanilla. I'm assuming there's something wrong with the install, but I'm not sure what the problem is.

I have tried multiple approaches, but I cannot reproduce it. I tried a completely fresh install, turning off all dlc's except The Old Gods... but it seems fine (even two years in, in all attempts).
The only thing I can think of is that your installs are wrong in some way.
What I suggest, aside from a fresh install, is to:
- replace the .mod files with the .mod files of 0.23 (or any other version that worked).
- check whether any other mods are activated that are not supposed to. (using the vanilla version while you meant to play it with ck2+ could lead to this error, as the ck2+ title histories could be loaded after my mods files)

My checksum is ILVJ for the vanilla version, so you can check whether your installs are indeed different from mine.

Might I suggest having a religion capable of spawning only once and then spreading rather than seemingly literally appearing all over the map at random? As I was the only Animist in the South of Italy (Er, and in Europe outside of the far eastern part of the map actually) not only did I lack any useful alliances, the AI did as well (as there were around 4 different religions in the South of Italy alone)

EDIT: Also, apparently you can't have 6 counties in a duchy, shouldn't 6 be the limit, not 5?

About the religions, that's already in. The basic religions are very vague in nature, and such it would actually be weird if they are only limited to a single spawn, while a wide range of regions in the world adhered to them independently.
The more specific religions, polytheistic and monotheistic, in contrast do spawn only once and are meant to spread from a single location (the same will be the case for reformed basic religions and such, but those are not created yet).

For the 6 duchy limit (edit: county limit of course...), that is a requirement that stems from the 'not every province is independent' period of Dynamic Duchies. Although I don't see how you would get 6 provinces and hence would reach this limitation (except when you're very lucky with inheriting counties), I can fix this in 0.25.
Edit: I will probably fix it when India expansion is out, as I will have to generate new titles/histories at that time anyway, so it would be double work if I do it now and have to do it again after that expansion is out.
You can manually remove the requirement in \\AND-CK2plus\KAforMultipleMods\common\landed_titles\07_KATitles.txt; simply look for your title and replace the following:
Code:
			AND = {

				primary_title = { title = c_artois }
				primary_title = { location = { has_province_modifier = no_liege } }
				OR = {
					AND = {
						num_of_count_titles = 3
						NOT = { num_of_count_titles = 6 }
					}
					primary_title = { location = { has_province_modifier = isolated } }
				}
			}

With:
Code:
			AND = {

				primary_title = { title = c_artois }
				primary_title = { location = { has_province_modifier = no_liege } }
				OR = {
					num_of_count_titles = 3
					primary_title = { location = { has_province_modifier = isolated } }
				}
			}
 
Last edited:

Xia

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Between a healthy dose of stewardship, gavelkind and a little bit of over extension it was quite easy to hit 6 counties, considering I even saw an AI controlled Firenze with 5 counties I assume it is possible to get a 5 demesne limit.

On my second run through I see now what you mean with the religions, I think in my first run the religions were messed up a bit due to a few counties having been inherited by someone on the opposite sides of the world; in my second run I didn't have the 8-10 religion chaos in Italy, pretty sure it was only 3 with a fourth on Sardinia.

The culture spread is very cool btw, playing as Navarra just now I was the first to get the Iberian culture, so roughly a third of modern day France ended up Iberian, whilst West African managed to get nearly up to Iberia (along with a random Hispanic culture country when Pisa somehow inherited La Coruna).
 
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