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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

riknap

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PROJECT A.B.C.D.E.
Advanced Battles & Combat Depth Essentials

[a comprehensive combat overhaul project]



Release Version: DOWNLOAD 0C_Vanilla, DOWNLOAD 0C1_HIP-PB
Steam Workshop: Vanilla, HIP-PB
Date Released: August 28, 2014 (1852, UTC+8), and September 3, 2014 (2227, UTC+8)
CK2 Compatibility: 2.1.6 and some earlier versions
Mod Compatibility: vanilla,HIP-PB, Lux Invicta (to be integrated); CK2+ (pending the rewrite)
Next Update ETA: some time from now



[HR][/HR]

O. SCREENSHOTS:










I. INTRODUCTION:

(So, after a year or so of hibernation and existing only as a blog post in the forums, this mod project finally starts getting momentum enough that I decided to make a proper thread.)

This project is a bifocal attempt that aims to rebalance combat via a tweak of both unit stats to make each unit a functional combatant in its own right as well as combat mechanics in general (like how long battles last - specifically, making them last longer than they do in vanilla), and most importantly a complete overhaul of the tactics of the vanilla CK2 game and eventually code it into a modification module.
The tactics system is quite flexible in and detailed enough that it allows a rock-paper-scissors system that makes units more nuanced in the field. The problem with vanilla tactics though is that they aren't nuanced enough to allow a wide variety of possibilities depending on army composition. Granted, army composition in vanilla is relatively homogeneous, but with mods like Better Armies or Lux Invicta, army composition is not taken advantage of properly.

The project aims to change that by adding a large amount of different tactics that are applicable for different situations, each which has a strength or weakness relative to other tactics, to more closely represent the chaotic flow of the battlefield. To illustrate, vanilla has around 26 generic tactics - this project is estimated to have more than 100 generic tactics whose availability is dependent on traits, terrain, unit composition, and attributes like martial, intrigue, and learning. The latter two of course would only apply to special tactics (mostly ambush/subversion-type for the former, and unique/innovative tactics for the latter)

To see how such a system could potentially improve CK2 combat mechanics, you could read about coanda's detailed FAQ on how tactics in general work.

I won't exactly be adding/doing duel-events and battle-event mods, as there are a lot of mods that do so anyway with better skill than I could possibly hope to achieve - not to mention it'll be a headache to maintain compatibility with the main overhaul mods (that use defines.lua) anyway.
Currently a massive WIP for some time now, I finally have enough modding time to focus on it and actually bring it into codification. That said, I earlier noted how this project was mostly developed to take advantage of Lux Invicta-style non-homogeneous armies, so a lot of the concepts here focus on specialized-composition armies (which is achievable in vanilla anyway via using retinues as well as mercs/holy orders which tend to have a certain composition)

[HR][/HR]

II. UNIT REBALANCE:

The funny thing about "rebalancing" troops is that they're actually a byproduct of the situation of Lux Invicta which has a lot of cultures with unique troop-ratios due to the way cultural buildings are set, which made me want to standardize all troops and make them "balanced" relative to each other in terms of stats.
And so, I decided first to play some TW games for a while to sort of reimagine how different troop types would function in battle and how to rebalance their stats to fit the Lux Invicta setting. Then, I needed to confirm just how combat damage works, and came to the following thought process:

first, troop deaths are determined by [Total Attack Points Received / Total Defence Points Available]*[Troop Kill Factor]. These determine how many troops you lose per day. vanilla has it set at 0.015, and I decided to set it a 2/3, ie. 0.01 (well, technically it's been freely floating whenever I randomly tweaked it, but I thought I'd use this value as the standard now).

Second, morale loss is determined by [Troop Morale Points Lost + Morale Loss Factor]. As each soldier has a base morale point, each troop death reduces the total morale points pool (hence morale drops faster) as well as incurs a morale loss factor too (even more morale loss). This made morale a sort of "HP" system that determined just how long a battle would last. Since it has been agreed upon previously that Lux Invicta battles are all about small scale drawn out conflicts, I've decided to both increase the base morale of all troops as well as reducing the morale loss factor to 3 (vanilla had it pegged at 6).

As such, below is the matrix I've decided on so far:

Light Infantry
cost = 1
morale = 3
attack = 4/3/3
defence = 3/3/4
notes: I've tweaked LI a bit so that they function more as all-around-skirmishers rather than simply junk troops. They're still the least valuable troop per person, but at least they're less trash now.


Heavy Infantry
cost = 2
morale = 5
attack = 1/8/2
defence = 6/4/3
notes: A slight few tweaks from vanilla, heavy infantry are twice as expensive as light infantry, but are slightly stronger in skirmish/melee as well as a bit more defence. These units are offensively-oriented, and thus have a minimal melee defence boost to reflect their high risk, high-reward combat.

Pikemen
cost = 2
morale = 5
attack = 0.1/6.9/1
defence = 6/8/2
notes: Pikemen-type troops had a bit of rebalance to them, having equal morale with heavy infantry now but still defensively-oreinted. Their melee attack is relatively slighly weaker than heavy infantry, but they have twice the defensive capabilities in melee of heavy infantry (a vanilla ratio anyway) in exchange for weaker performance in pursuit. Also, the decimal-value skirmish is mostly a vanilla safeguard I retained to keep them marginally useful in siege assaults (which apparently use skirmish values).

Light Cavalry
cost = 2.5
morale = 4
attack = 5/4.5/12
defence = 6/4/6
notes: Light Cavalry had been rebalanced by a fair amount. They have strengthened a significantly strengthened skirmish offensive and boosted pursuit value and thus more valuable as a combat unit.

Heavy Cavalry
cost = 5
morale = 8
attack = 0.5/10/9
defence = 6/7/5
notes: Heavy Cavalry underwent a fair amount of rebalance as well. I've reduced their base morale relative to vanilla, as well as slightly boosting their skirmish/pursuit offensive in exchange for reducing their skirmish/melee defences.

Archers
cost = 1
morale = 3
attack = 8/3/2
defence = 1/3/3
notes: Archers also were rebalanced by much as well. Aside from having the same base morale of light infantry (3), they now have a stronger skirmish value (twice of light infantry) and a bit more melee in exchange for reduced skirmish defences. This essentially makes them a glass-cannon variant of light infantry then, but significantly more stronger than the vanilla version.

To be able to obtain a useful comparison, I'm using a concept called "relative worth" which factors in morale, which I treat as a sort of "HP" bar instead of ignoring it all together as coanda did. I did this by adding in all the offensive/defensive "pips" of a unit, then multiplying it by its morale, then dividing by the greatest common factor, which gives the ratio which determines their maintenance factor:
1 light infantry, archer = 2 heavy infantry, pikeman = 2.5 light cavalry = 5 heavy cavalry.
Horse Archers, Camels, Elephants, and other vanilla special troops are not yet part of the balance yet, and I'll be making them up as I go ahead with making the special troops matrix and find relevant cultures that would use them (and tweaking accordingly). But a tentative strength ratio I have is 1 LI = 3 HA = 3 Cm, 10 El. But of course, that'll change as I get a more in-depth look into them.

note: and yeah, some might have noticed I just essentially just edited this from a large chunk of a thread I made in the LI sub-forums, but hey, this was essentially previously a project started for Lux Invicta :p

[HR][/HR]

III. TACTICS OVERHAUL:

And here comes the bulk of the mod (and ironically the part with the shorter introduction). Generally, as has been noted previously by PAnZuRiEL with his previous two mods (the gist of which is noted in the OP of Concerning Military Matters), vanilla tactics have a lot of weaknesses that can be addressed. They mainly boil down to two critical matters that they fail to make use of well enough: terrain, and unit composition.
That said, this is probably where our two projects diverge in focus. PAnZuRiEL's desired emphasis is on terrain, which certainly is a critical component in battles. I however would like to focus primarily on unit composition first (as this project is designed to take advantage of unique army compositions after all). As such, all of my tactics take the various potential compositions of armies as their main rubric - that is, an army that has a high ratio of cavalry is significantly more likely to use cavalry-based tactics in both skirmish and melee just as much as a pike-and-bow defence retinue is more likely to use archery-oriented tactics in the offence, and perhaps even ambushes with the appropriate terrain if the leader is skilled enough.

That said, the following is the cumulative list of tactics I've designed so far - you might notice that I haven't actually finished assigning statistics to most melee tactics. Well, I've been only working on this project rarely in the past, but they'll be updated properly as I work on the project now.

#format:

tactic_name (! prefix means a bad tactic)
- ideal_composition (bell curve distribution of modifier weight, ideally 3 to 5 intervals), flank leader required/bonus/unnecessary, ideal/trigger_martial_skill (depending on tactic) , weighting_traits
= vs *"weakness_and_strengths_vis_a_vis_other_tactics*" ^ enemy_tactic_trigger
> TYPE(HI/LI/PI/AR/LC/HC/HA are heavy/lightinfantry/pikemen/archer/light/heavycavalry/horsearchers, where camels and elephants are treated as LC/HC respectively)_O(ffensive)/D(effensive) +-(relevant modifier)


#misc notes
note: further subdivision would be necessary for more effective counter-effects
note: for modifiers, ideally max/min of 100 to 150% except for specialist/unique tactics
note: for tactic affinity, vs "A" means against a specific tactic while vs *A* means against a group of tactics
note: there still is no tactic synergy designed/written (ie. tactics benefiting from another flank's/centre's tactic choice)
note: unless noted, basic skirmish tactic lasts 4 days, melee 5 days
note: currently, only horse archer special troops have their unique tactics and modifiers. camel cavalry will currently follow light cavalry designations until I can make separate tactics for them, while war elephants follow heavy cavalry designations (with requisite amounts reduced by 1/10th) for that matter
note: regarding the bell-curve distribution, there are two variants: the first which has a right-side component which decreases the chance/weight if you go over the ratio, and the second has only a left-side component, thus you get the max chance/weight once you hit the ideal ratio
notes: offensive/defensive tactics simply indicate where the buffs are concentrated (ie. offensive/defensive buffs), and are not restricted to attacker/defenders

#####SKIRMISH PHASE#####

##Offensive Tactics##

*Cavalry Strikes*
- weak vs Shield Formations & Manoeuvres
- strong vs Infantry Screening

mobile swarm (HA neutral)
- 30+-10% HA
= vs *Shield Formations* x-0.5 vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+0.5
> HA_O +0.5 HA_D +0.5 AR_O -0.5 LI_O -0.75 HI_O -1 PI_O -1

rotating swarm (HA good)
- 60-20% HA, flank leader req, Cavalry Commander
= vs *Shield Formations* x-0.5 vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+0.5
> HA_O +1 HA_D +1 AR_O -0.25 LI_O -0.75 HI_O -1 PI_O -1

horseman harass (LC neutral)
- 30+-10% LC
= vs *Shield Formations* x-0.25 vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+0.25
> LC_O +0.5 LC_D +0.25 AR_O -0.5 LI_O -0.75 HI_O -1 PI_O -1

cavalry hit and run (LC good)
- 60-20% LC, flank leader req, Cavalry Commander req
= vs *Shield Formations* x-0.25 vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+0.25
> LC_O +1.5 LC_D +0.5 AR_O -0.5 LI_O -0.75 HI_O -1 PI_O -1

cavalry raiding (LC good)
- 60-20% LC, flank leader req, martial > 16 & Cavalry Commander bon-trig
= vs *Shield Formations* x-0.25 vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.25 vs *Infantry Screening* v+0.5
> LC_O +3 LC_D +0.75 AR_O -0.5 LI_O -0.75 HI_O -1 PI_O -1

swarm and harass (HA good)
-30-10% LC and 30+-10%HA, flank leader req, martial > 16 req, Cav Commander bon
= vs *Shield Formations* x-0.25 vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* +0.5
> LC_O + 1.5 HA_O +1.5 LC AR_O -0.5 LI_O -1 HI_O -1 PI_O -1

*Archery Strikes*
- weak vs Shield Formations & Manoeuvres & Ambushes
- strong vs Cavalry Strikes

Light Volley (AR neutral)
- 30+-10% AR
= vs *Shield Formations* x-0.5 vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.25 vs *Ambush* x-0.75 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x+0.5
> AR_O +0.5

Heavy Barrage (AR good)
- 60-20% AR, flank leader bon
= vs *Shield Formations* x-0.5 vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.25 vs *Ambush* x-0.75 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x+0.5
> AR_O +0.75

!Indiscriminate Barrage (AR bad)
- 30-10% AR, no flank leader bon, cruel, wroth bon
= vs *Shield Formations* x-0.5 vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.25 vs *Ambush* x-0.75 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x+0.5
> AR_O +1.5 AR_D -0.25 HI_D -0.5 PI_D -0.5 LI_D -0.5 LC_D -0.25 HC_D -0.25 HA_D -0.25

Arced Arrow Assault (AR neutral)
- 50-15% LI or 50-15% HI, and 30+-10% AR , flank leader bon
= vs *Shield Formations* x-0.25 vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.25 vs *Ambush* x-0.75 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x+0.25
> AR_O +0.5 AR_D +1

Ambush Volley (AR good)
- 30-10% AR, flank leader req, intrigue > 8 OR rough/mountain/jungle/experimenter req, forest/hill/mountain/jungle terrain req
= vs *Manoeuvres* x-0.25 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x+0.75 vs *Infantry Screening* x+0.75 (special bonii)
> AR_O +1.5 AR_D +1 LI_O +1

*Infantry Screening*
- weak vs Archery Strikes & Cavalry Strikes
- strong vs Ambushes & Manoeuvres

Average Light Bait Vanguard (LI neutral)
- 60-20% LI
= vs *Archery Strikes* x-0.75 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x-0.75 vs *Manoeuvres* x+0.75 vs *Ambushes* x+0.5
>LI_D -0.5 LI_O +0.5 HI_D +0.25 PI_D +0.25 AR_D +0.25 LC_D +0.25 HC_D +0.25 AR_O -0.75

Skilled Light Bait Vanguard (LI good)
- 60-20% LI, flank leader req-bon, light foot bon
= vs *Archery Strikes* x-0.5 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x-0.5 vs *Manoeuvres* x1 vs *Ambushes* x+0.75
>LI_D -0.25 LI_O +0.75 HI_D +0.5, PI_D +0.5, AR_D +0.5 LC_D +0.5 HC_D +0.5 AR_O -0.5

Heavy Advance Vanguard (HI neutral)
- 60-20% HI
= vs *Archery Strikes* x-0.5 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x-0.5 vs *Manoeuvres* x+0.75 vs *Ambushes* x+0.5
>HI_D -0.25 LI_D +0.5 PI_D +0.5 AR_D +0.5 LC_D +0.3 HC_D +0.5 AR_O -0.6

Average Light Foot Feint (LI neutral)
- 40-15% LI, flank leader req, martial > 16 req
= vs *Archery Strikes* x-0.5 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x-0.5 vs *Manoeuvres* x+0.75 vs *Ambushes* x+0.5
>LI_O +0.5 LI_D + 0.25 AR_O +0.5

Skilled Light Foot Feint (LI good)
- 40-15% LI, flank leader req, martial > 16 req, light foot req-bon,
= vs *Archery Strikes* x-0.25 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x-0.25 vs *Manoeuvres* x+1 vs *Ambushes* x+0.75
>LI_O +1 LI_D +0.5 AR +1

Heavy Foot Feint (HI neutral)
- 40-15% HI, 30+-10% AR, flank leader req, heavy infantry leader bon
= vs *Archery Strikes* x-0.5 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x-0.5 vs *Manoeuvres* x+1 vs *Ambushes* x+0.75
>HI_D -0.25 AR_O +1


##Defensive Tactics##

*Shield Formations*
- weak vs Infantry Screening
- strong vs Cavalry Strikes

weak shield link (HI neutral)
- 30+-10% HI, NO flank leader bon
= vs *Infantry Screening* x-0.25 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x+0.25
>HI_D +0.15 AR_O -0.5 LI_O -0.5

shield chain (HI neutral)
- 40+-15% HI, flank leader bon
= vs *Infantry Screening* x-0.25 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x+0.25
>HI_D +0.3 LI_D +0.3 AR_O -0.5 LI_O -0.5

shield wall (HI good)
- 60-20% HI, flank leader bon, heavy infantry leader bon
= vs *Infantry Screening* x-0.25 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x+0.5
>HI_D +0.75 PI_D +0.25 LI_D +0.75 AR_O -0.5 LI_O -0.5

strong shield wall (HI good)
- 75-25% HI, flank leader req, heavy infantry leader bon
= vs *Infantry Screening* x-0.25 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x+0.5
>HI_D +1 PI_D +0.5 LI_D +1 AR_O -0.5 LI_O -0.5

spike wall (PI good)
- 40-15% HI 40-15% PI, flank leader bon
= vs *Infantry Screening* x-0.25 vs *Cavalry Strikes* x+2
>HI_D +1 PI_D +1 LI_D +1 PI_O +2 AR_O -0.5 LI_O -0.5

*Manoeuvres*
- weak vs Infantry Screening
- strong vs Ambushes

!Obvious feint (LI bad)
- NO flank leader bon, martial < 8 bon
= vs *Infantry Screening* x-0.5 vs *Ambushes x+0.25
>HI_D -0.3 PI_D -0.3 LI_D -0.3 AR_D -0.3 HA_D -0.3 LC_D -0.3 AR_O +0.1 LC_O +0.1 HA_O +0.1

Skillful feint (LI neutral)
- flank leader req, martial > 8 req
= vs *Infantry Screening* x-0.25 vs *Ambushes x+0.5
>HI_D -0.1 PI_D -0.1 LI_D -0.1 HA_D -0.1 LI_O +0.2 AR_O + 0.2 LC_O +0.2 HA_O +0.2

Misdirection (LI good)
- flank leader req, martial > 16 experimenter/trickster bon
= vs *Infantry Screening* x-0.25 vs *Ambushes x+0.75
>HI_D +0.25 PI_D +0.25 LI_D +0.25 AR_D +0.25 LC_D +0.25 HA_D +0.25 LI_O +0.3 AR_O +0.3 LC_O +0.3 HA_O +0.3

Obfuscation (LI good)
- flank leader req, martial > 24 experimenter/trickster req-bon
= vs *Ambushes x+1
>HI_D +0.5 PI_D +0.5 HC_D +0.5 LI_D +1 AR_D +1 LC_D +1 HA_D +1 LI_O +0.5 AR_O +0.5 LC_O +0.5 HA_O +0.5

*Ambushes*
- weak vs Manoeuvres
- strong vs Infantry Screening
notes: higher bonus for terrain-traits (5), then unit traits (4), then experimenter/trickster/organizer (3)

desert ambush (LC neutral)
- flank leader req, martial > 8 req, intrigue > 8 req, desert terrain, desert expert/experimenter/trickster bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1
>LI_O +0.25 AR_O +0.25 LC_O +0.5 HA_O +0.5 HC_O +0.5 CM_O 1 (special)

crushing desert ambush (LC good)
- flank leader req, martial > 16 req, intrigue > 8 req, desert terrain, desert expert/experimenter/trickster req-bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.25 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1.5
>LI_O +0.5 AR_O +0.5 LC_O +1 HA_O +1 HC_O +1 CM_O +2 (special)

hill-side ambush (AR neutral)
- flank leader req, martial > 8 req, intrigue > 8 req, hill terrain, rough terrain/experimenter/trickster bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1
>AR_D +0.3 LI_D +0.3 HI_D +0.3 PI_D +0.3 AR_O +0.75 LI_O +0.4 HA_O +0.4 HC_O +0.4 LC_O +0.4

crushing hill-side ambush (AR good)
- flank leader req, martial > 16 req-bon, intrigue > 8 req, hill terrain, rough expert/experimenter/trickster req-bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.25 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1.5
>AR_D +0.75 LI_D +0.75 HI_D +0.75 PI_D +0.75 AR_O +1.5 LI_O +1 HA_O +1 HC_O +1 LC_O +1

mountain ambush (HI neutral)
- flank leader req, martial > 8 req, intrigue > 8 req, mountain terrain, mountain expert/experimenter/trickster bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1
>AR_D +0.75 LI_D +0.75 HI_D +1 PI_D +0.5 LI_O +0.75 AR_O +0.75 LC_O -0.5 HC_O -0.5 HA_O -0.5

crushing mountain ambush (HI good)
- flank leader req, martial > 16 req, intrigue > 8 req, mountain terrain, mountain expert/experimenter/trickster req-bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.25 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1.5
>AR_D +1.5 LI_D +1.5 HI_D +2 PI_D +0.75 LI_O +1.5 AR_O +1.5 LC_O -0.5 HC_O -0.5 HA_O -0.5

forest ambush (LI neutral)
- flank leader req, martial > 8 req, intrigue > 8 req, forest terrain, rough terrain/experimenter/trickster bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1
>AR_D +0.5 LI_D +0.5 HI_D +0.25 PI_D +0.25 LI_O +1 AR_O +0.75 LC_O -0.3 HC_O -0.3 HA_O -0.3

crushing forest ambush (LI good)
- flank leader req, martial > 16 req, intrigue > 8 req, forest terrain, rough expert/experimenter/trickster req-bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.25 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1.5
>AR_D +1 LI_D +1 HI_D +0.5 PI_D +0.5 LI_O +2 AR_O +1.5 LC_O -0.3 HC_O -0.3 HA_O -0.3

jungle ambush (PI neutral)
- flank leader req, martial > 8 req, intrigue > 8 req, jungle terrain, jungle terrain/experimenter/trickster bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1
>AR_D +0.5 LI_D +0.5 HI_D +0.25 PI_D +0.5 LI_O +0.75 AR_O +0.75 LC_O -0.3 HC_O -0.3 HA_O -0.3

crushing jungle ambush (PI good)
- flank leader req, martial > 16 req, intrigue > 8 req, forest terrain, jungle expert/experimenter/trickster req-bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.25 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1.5
>AR_D +1 LI_D +1 HI_D +0.5 PI_D +1 LI_O +1.5 AR_O +1.5 LC_O -0.3 HC_O -0.3 HA_O -0.3

lure and bait (LI neutral)
- 40-15% LI or 40-15% HI or 40-15% PI, flank leader req, martial > 8 req, plains/farmland/steppe terrain, flat terrain expert/experimenter/organizer bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1
> LI_D +1, HR_D +0.75, PI_D +0.75, HI_D +0.75

hit and run (LI neutral)
- 60-20% LI or 60-20% AR, flank leader req, plains/farmland/steppe terrain, martial > 8 req flat terrain expert/organizer/light foot bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.5 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1
>AR_O +1 LI_O +0.5 AR_D -0.25 LI_D -0.25

skillful hit and run (LI good)
- 50-15% LI or 50-15% AR, flank leader req, plains/farmland/steppe terrain, martial > 16 req flat terrain expert/organizer/light foot req
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.25 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1.5
>AR_O +1.5 LI_O +1.5

surprise assault (HC good)
- 30-10% LC or 30-10% HC or 30-10% HA, martial > 16 req, intrigue > 8 req, plains terrain, cavalry leader/flat terrain expert/organizer bon
= vs *Manoeuvres x-0.25 vs *Infantry Screening* x+1.5
>AR_O -0.15 LI_O -0.15 HC_O +2 LC_O +1 HA_O +1 HC_D +2 LC_D +1 HA_D +1


##Melee Transitions##

*Standard Charge*
- strong vs NONE
- weak vs Defensive Traps & Combined Arms Advance & Mounted Combined Defensive

!Bungled Advance (PI bad)
- NO flank leader bon, martial < 8 bon, day 12+, 4 days, shift~>melee
= vs *Defensive Traps* x-0.75 vs *Combined Arms Advance* x-0.75 vs *Mounted Combined Defensive* x-0.75 vs *Infantry Screening* x-0.5 (special)
>HI_D -1.5 PI_D -1.5 LI_D -0.75 AR_D -0.75

General Advance (PI neutral)
- flank leader req, martial > 8 req, day 12+, 4 days, shift~>melee
= vs *Defensive Traps* x-0.5 vs *Combined Arms Advance* x-0.5 vs *Mounted Combined Defensive* x-0.5
>HI_D -0.5 PI_D -0.5 LI_D -0.25 AR_D -0.25

Methodical Advance (PI good)
- flank leader req, martial > 16 req, day 12+, 4 days, shift~>melee
= vs *Defensive Traps* x-0.5 vs *Combined Arms Advance* x-0.5 vs *Mounted Combined Defensive* x-0.5
>LI_D +0.25 AR_D +0.25

Intricate Complex Advance (PI good)
- flank leader req, martial > 24 req, day 12+, 4 days, shift~>melee
= vs *Defensive Traps* x-0.25 vs *Combined Arms Advance* x-0.25 vs *Mounted Combined Defensive* x-0.25
>HI_D +0.75 PI_D +0.75 LI_D +1.5 AR_D +1.5

*Combined Arms Charge*
- weak vs NONE
- strong vs Standard Charge

Supported Cavalry Charge (HC neutral)
- 30+-10% HC/LC/HA, flank leader req, martial > 16 bon, cavalry leader bon, day 9+, 3 days, shift~>melee
>HC_O +0.5 LC_O +0.5 HA_O +0.5

Coordinated Cavalry Charge (HC good)
- 60-20% HC/LC/HA, flank leader req, martial > 24 req, cavalry leader, day 9+, 3 days, shift~>melee
>HC_O +1 LC_O +1 HA_O +1

!Unsupported Cavalry Charge (HC bad)
- 30-10% HC/LC, NO flank leader bon, martial < 8 bon, wroth/(ditto) bon, day 9+, 3 days, shift~>melee
>HC_D -0.75 LC_D -0.75 HA_D -0.75 HC_O +0.5 LC_O +0.5 HA_O +0.5

!Cavalry Charge on Skirmishers (HC bad)
- 30-10% AR/LI bon, NO flank leader bon, wroth/cruel/(ditto) req, day 6+, 3 days, shift~>melee
>AR_D -3 LI_D -3 AR_O -1 LI_O -1 HC_O +0.5 LC_O +0.5 HA_O +0.5

!Collateral-Casualty Cavalry Charge (HC bad)
- 30-10% HI/PI bon, NO flank leader bon, wroth/cruel bon, day 6+, 3 days, shift~>melee
>HI_D -2 PI_D -2 HC_O +0.5 LC_O +0.5 HA_O +0.5

Coordinated-Volley Advance (AR neutral)
- 30+-10% AR, martial > 16 bon, organizer bon, day 12+, 5 days, shift~>melee
>AR_D +2 AR_O +1

Synchronised-Volley Advance (AR good)
- 60-20% AR, flank leader req, martial > 16 req, organizer req, day 12+, 5 days, shift~>melee
>AR_D +4 AR_O +1.5

!Uncoordinated-Volley Advance (AR bad)
- 30-10% AR, NO flank leader bon, martial < 8 bon, day 12+, 5 days, shift~>melee
>LI_D -1 HI_D -1 PI_D -1 >AR_D +1 AR_O +1

Infantry Rapid Charge - (HI neutral)
- 30-10% HI/PI/LI/AR bon flank leader req, aggressive leader bon, day 3+, 2 days, shift~>melee
>LI_D -1 HI_D -1 PI_D -1

Fervoured Frontal Charge (HI good)
- 30-10% bon, flank leader req, wroth, zealous, aggressive leader bon, day 3+, 2 days, shift~>melee
>LI_D -1 HI_D -1 PI_D -1 HC_D -0.5 LC_D -0.5 HA_D -0.5 LI_O +1 HC_O +0.5 LC_O +0.5 HA_O +0.5

!Chaotic Frontal Charge (HI bad)
- NO flank leader bon, martial < 8 bon, wroth bon, day 3+, 2 days, shift~>melee
>LI_D -2 HI_D -2 PI_D -2 LC_D -2 HC_D -2

*Opportunity Attacks*
(tactics that trigger when the enemy has a certain tactic)
- weak vs NONE
- strong vs TRIGGER TACTICS
notes: yeah, I still haven't thought of any tactics to go in here, but I'll be adding/making up some in the future as I go along.

#####MELEE PHASE#####

##Offensive Tactics##

*Foot-Melee Advance*
- weak vs Cavalry Counter-charge & Ranged Combined Defensive
- strong vs Blundered Advance

Massed Advance - 70% HI/LI
>HI_D -0.5 LI_D -0.5 HI_O +0.75 LI_D +0.75 HC_O -3 LC_O -3 HA_O -3 AR_O -3

Planned Massed Advance - 70% HI/LI, martial > 8
>HI_D -0.25 LI_D -0.25 HI_O +0.75 LI_D +0.75 HC_O -2 LC_O -2 HA_O -2 AR_O -2

Organized Massed Advance - 70% HI/LI, martial > 16
>HI_O +0.1 LI_D +1 HC_O -1 LC_O -1 HA_O -1 AR_O -1

Alternating Massed Advance - 70% HI/LI, martial > 25, learning > 16
>HI_D +0.25 LI_D +0.25 HI_O +1 LI_D +1

Intricate Massed Advance - 70% HI/LI, martial > 25, learning > 24
>HI_D +0.75 LI_D +0.75 HI_O +1.5 LI_D +1.5

Spearwall Advance - 70& PI
>PI_D +0.5 PI_O +0.5 HC_O -3 LC_O -3 HA_O -3 AR_O -3

Combined Spearwall Advance - 50% PI, 20% HI/LI, martial > 8
>

Chequered Spearewall Advance - 60% PI, 20% HI/LI, martial > 16
>

Spear-Winged Infantry Advance - 40% HI/LI, 20% PI
>

Foot-Flanked Spear Advance - 40% PI, 20% HI/LI
>

*Range-Melee Advance*
- weak vs Cavalry Counter-charge
- strong vs Massed Infantry & Blundered Advance

Flanking Volley - 30% PI/LI/HI, 30% AR, martial > 8
>

Overhead Volley - 30% PI/LI/HI, 30% AR, martial > 16
>

Chequered Volley-Advance - 30% PI/LI/HI, 30% AR, martial > 24
>

Feint and Advance - 30% PI/LI/HI, 30% AR martial > 16, intrigue > 16, light foot leader, heavy infantry leader
>

Ordered Combined Melee - 30% PI/LI/HI, 30% AR, brave, gregarious, heavy infantry leader, experimenter
>

Guarded Barrage - 20% PI/LI/HI, 40% AR, martial > 8
>

Secured Barrage - 20% PI/LI/HI, 50% AR, martial > 16
>

Shielded Barrage - 30% PI/LI/HI, 50% AR, martial > 24
>

*Cavalry-Melee Advance*
- weak vs Ranged-Melee Advance
- strong vs Massed Infantry & Blundered Advance

Basic Cavalry Charge - 40% HC
>

Solid Cavalry Charge - 50% HC, brave, inspiring leader, cavalry leader
>

Wedged Cavalry Charge - 50% HC, martial > 16, Cavalry Commander,e experimenter
>

Charge and Harrass - 30% HI/LI, 30% LC
>

Assault and Raid - 30% HI/LI, 30% LC, martial > 16, Cavalry Commander
>

Flanking Cavalry Charge - 30% HC/LC 30% HI/PI/LI, martial > 16
>

Ripple Cavalry Charge - 30% HC/LC, Cavalry Commander, Experimenter
>

Hammer and Anvil - 30% HI/LI, 30% HC/LC
>

Cavalry Pincer - 30% HI/LI, 30% HC/LC, Cavalry Commander
>

Mobile Superiority - enem < 20% HC/LC, Cavalry Commander, experimenter
>

Skirmisher Overrun - enem > 60% AR, Cavalry Commander
>

*Combined Arms Advance*
- weak vs Defensive Traps
- strong vs Blundered Advance

Rapid Advance - 40% HI/LI 20% HC/LC, martial > 16 aggressive leader
>
notes: yeah, I still don't have much in this category


##Defensive Tactics##

*Massed Infantry*
- weak vs Combined Arms
- strong vs Foot-Melee Advance

!Weak Infantry Block - 30% HI/LI/PI, martial < 8, shy, craven,
>

Tight Infantry Block - 50% HI/LI/PI, martial > 16
>

Cohesive Infantry Wall - 60% HI/LI/PI, martial > 16
>

Spearwall - 40% PI
>

Reinforced Spearwall - 30%PI 30% HI, martial > 16
>

Superior Spearwall - 40%PI 30% HI, martial > 24
>

Failed Feined Collapse - 50% LI
>

Successful Feined Collapse - 50% LI, martial > 16, light foot leader
>

Footman Pincer - 50% LI, martial > 24, light foot leader
>

Heavy Pincer - 30% LI, 30% HI, martial > 16
>

Countercharge - aggressive leader
>

Feinting Countercharge - martial > 16, aggresive leader
>

*Cavalry Counter-charge*
- weak vs Ranged Combined Defensive & Combined Arms
- strong vs Cavalry-Melee Advance & Ranged-Melee Advance

Cavalry Bait and Switch - cavalry leader
>

Cavalry Superiority - enem < 20% HC/LC
>

Harrasing Swarm - 40% HA, martial > 16
>

Feinting Swarm - 30% HA, martial > 24
>

Direct Countercharge - 60% HC
>

Rippled Countercharge - martial > 16
>

Feinted Countercharge - martial > 24, cavalry leader
>

Ambush Cavalry Charge - martial > 16, rough terrain leader
>

!Discordant Countercharge - martial < 8
>

!Premature Countercharge - aggressive leader, wroth
>

!Trampling Countercharge - wroth, cruel
>

*Ranged Combined Defensive*
- weak vs Combined Arms
- strong vs Cavalry-Melee Advance

Static Barrage - 40% HI/PI,40% AR
>

Hold the Line - 30% HI/PI 40% AR, martial > 24, brave, gregarious
>

Melee Bowmanship - 60% HI 30% AR, martial > 16, brave, aggressive leader
>

Integrated Archers -40% HI 40% AR, martial > 26
>

Pike and Shoot - 40$ PI 40% AR, martial > 16
>

!Mismanaged Barrage - martial < 8
>

*Mounted Combined Defensive*
- weak vs Offensive Formations
- strong vs Blundered Advance

Cavalry Bait and Retreat - 30% LC/HC, enm > 40% HC/LC/HA, martial > 16
>

Hold and Harass - 40% HI/PI 30% LC/HC/HA, enm < 10% HC/LC/HA, martial > 16
>

Defensive Mounted Anvil - 50% HI/PI, 30% HC
>


##Special Tactics##

*Blundered Advance*
- weak vs NONE/ALL (all get affinity bonus vs this)
- strong vs NONE/ALL (tactic has mostly maluses with minimal bonii)

!Chaotic Massed Advance - 70% HI/LI, martial < 8, shy, wroth, stutterer
>

!Uncoordinated Massed Advance - 70% HI/LI, martial < 8
>

!Chaotic Spearwall Advance - 70% PI, martial < 8, shy, wroth, stutterer
>

!Diseastrous Foot Charge - 40% HI/LI/PI, martial < 8, shy, wroth, stutterer
>

!Chaotic Combined Melee - 30% PI/LI/HI, 30% AR, cruel, wroth
>

!Uncoordinated Rapid Advance - 40% HI/LI 20% HC/LC, aggressive leader
>


*Offensive Formations*
(misc tactics - martial/learning dependent)
- weak vs NONE
- strong vs TRIGGER TACTIC

*Defensive Traps*
(misc tactics - martial/intrigue dependent)
- weak vs NONE
- strong vs TRIGGER TACTIC

notes: yep, completely empty. I was hoping to come up with unique tactics here, but I'll guess that'll have to wait for now.

*Melee Avoidance*
(TRANSITION TO SKIRMISH)
notes: again, skirmish values are automatically used
- weak vs NONE
- strong vs TRIGGER TACTICS

Volleying Fall-back - 70% AR, martial > 24, light foot commander, shift~>skirmish
>

Cavalry Breakaway - 60% LC/HA, martial > 24, cavalry commander, shift~>skirmish
>

Fallback and Reorganize - 70% LI, martial > 24, light foot commander, experimenter, shift~>skirmish
>

#####PURSUE/SIEGE PHASE#####

NOTES: I am not actually sure just how pursuit/siege tactics work. They probably are valid phases by themselves, but for now they'll be considered vestigial
##Pursue Tactics##
(note: it appears to be a defensive tactic)

*Standard Pursuits*
Orderly Retreat - martial > 16, brave, gregarious
>
Chaotic Retreat - martial < 16, craven, wroth
>

#Siege Tactics
(note: untested placeholder)


NOTES: And yeah, you might have noticed I haven't added/noted anything about cultural tactics yet. For the most part, I'll be initially simply reusing vanilla tactics with some modifications (like giving emphasis to the cultural retinue composition) and balancing (like giving it appropriate weaknes/strengths as well as tweaking the requirements and effects to be on the same level as the others). If I ever get working on cultural tactics, it'll first be for Lux Invicta first, which I would then port for vanilla cultures.

[HR][/HR]
IV. STATUS:

As you may have noticed, this project is not only a massive WIP in terms of actual coding, but in the design aspect as well...
like I still need to study further how to add modifiers so that a high-martial commander is more likely to choose the "better" tactics, not to mention I have a lot of categories that I don't even have tactics in-for, plus the glaring fact that the melee tactics don't even have modifiers yet and only exist as a sort of mental-url that helps me remember what I visualized but not managed to put into writing/coding yet. And I'm still not sure how to make tactics trigger another tactic yet either hahaha. I'm so naive...

This will be a long-term project I've decided to finally get working on (especially since I finally have enough modding time freed up since my LI-modding duties have been currently taken over by more competent council-members :rofl: ).

Still, there are four general phases I'd like to work on this:
I coding in most skirmish tactics - 100%
II coding in most melee tactics - 0%
III fleshing out these tactics - 0%
III porting cultural tactics - 0%

yeah, a WIP indeed....
I'll at least try to come up with an update/release every time a phase is completed, so let's see what happens with that...

For the moment, while melee tactics are uncoded, I'll be borrowing Six Gun South's Better Armies tactics, mostly because I also borrowed his sprites and it's easier to just use his tactics since the sprite assignments are done already (well, technically, I'm using my own sprites now anyway, but I liked the three-tier system enough that it'll probably be the main model of how I distribute iconography).

[hr][/hr]
X. TL;DR:

I'm trying to recreate combat from scratch (well, not really, exactly, anyway) in a way that'll hopefully make troop-composition matter, and feedback is of course beneficial for both of us (well, for me first, then for you if I manage to actually pull this through .... and don't get threadlocked for dilly-dallying like my time-traveller invasion project had been :3 )

While I know hypotheticals don't exactly deserve as much attention as work with actual results anyway, if you have something you'd like to discuss/contribute regarding tactics/coding of them, by all means do share. I'm always on the lookout for ideas to incorporate (not to mention this thread also potentially becomes a tumbleweed circuit as well for the lack of discussion aside from me posting and talking to myself as is usual anyway).

[hr][/hr]
XX. CREDITS:

Better Armies, by Six Gun South (I borrowed his sprites as well as his other tactics as placeholders while mine isn't done)
richvh (for bugtesting)
Darkgamma (for icon design help)
PAnZuRiEL (for borrowed ideas from his two tactics projects)
 
Last edited:

riknap

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just looking at that post I made suddenly gives me a headache ....
there's over a hundred tactics there, and... I've only managed to code a miniscule amount so far :rofl:

ah well. reserving this post in case I need it
 

frankatank109

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Well I don't really understand combat and tactics in CK2, never have, chances are I never will. Nonetheless this mod still manages to make me excited, and I can't wait for a release, maybe by then I'll finally understand...
 

riknap

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aye, the combat component of CK2, both in tactics and unit balance, is certainly one of the more underdeveloped systems it has. There's a lot of potential with the tactics system that is not made use of mainly because vanilla army compositions are too homogenous (you can fundamentally work around over this with retinues at least) and tactics too random (ie. they don't make use of your unit composition enough - an army with a large force of heavy cavalry for example can find that cavalry suddenly made useless because a tactic that severely nerfs them has been randomly chosen), no different from EU-style dice rolls really.

while I still can't say how well my project would make battles involving similarly-homogenous armies better, if you use retinues you should be able at least to influence combat-tactics choices far more than you can with vanilla right now. at the very least, players should at least have more input in combat (whether by selecting leaders with certain commander traits or stats and whatnot) than the current state of randomnity it has now (right now, having 1% of a troop type is enough to make a certain tactic which benefits that minority and nerfs a larger component of your army. For example, even if you have a 50% ratio of heavy cavalry due to cataphracts or whatnot and have only 5% heavy infantry, you can still trigger the Advance tactic which boosts heavy infantry.... but severely nerfs your heavy cavalry. That's just... Total-War-AI-esque :p )

ah well, let's just see how things work out once I actually manage to code them all in first, before we flesh them out :rofl:
 

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aye, the combat component of CK2, both in tactics and unit balance, is certainly one of the more underdeveloped systems it has. There's a lot of potential with the tactics system that is not made use of mainly because vanilla army compositions are too homogenous (you can fundamentally work around over this with retinues at least) and tactics too random (ie. they don't make use of your unit composition enough - an army with a large force of heavy cavalry for example can find that cavalry suddenly made useless because a tactic that severely nerfs them has been randomly chosen), no different from EU-style dice rolls really.

while I still can't say how well my project would make battles involving similarly-homogenous armies better, if you use retinues you should be able at least to influence combat-tactics choices far more than you can with vanilla right now. at the very least, players should at least have more input in combat (whether by selecting leaders with certain commander traits or stats and whatnot) than the current state of randomnity it has now (right now, having 1% of a troop type is enough to make a certain tactic which benefits that minority and nerfs a larger component of your army. For example, even if you have a 50% ratio of heavy cavalry due to cataphracts or whatnot and have only 5% heavy infantry, you can still trigger the Advance tactic which boosts heavy infantry.... but severely nerfs your heavy cavalry. That's just... Total-War-AI-esque :p )

ah well, let's just see how things work out once I actually manage to code them all in first, before we flesh them out :rofl:
Doesn't ASOIAF has something on that, for tactics? I know they've fairly heavily modified them, including differing levels of the same type of tactic depending on traits and stats...
 

riknap

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Doesn't ASOIAF has something on that, for tactics? I know they've fairly heavily modified them, including differing levels of the same type of tactic depending on traits and stats...
while I'm not sure if they changed it post-RoI recently, but the previous AGOT mod tactics (at least the pre-RoI copy I have) are still heavily based on vanilla, yet more accurately expounds on them by giving each tactic five tiers. while that's certainly a better state than vanilla's, it's not exactly what I had in mind.
Basically, what I want is to create unique tactics that depend on unit composition a lot. instead of merely 15 skirmish tactics, I have roughly 40~50 different skirmish tactics that take army composition into account, plus around 70+ melee tactics which also take various compositions into account instead of vanilla's roughly 15 or so as well. Of course, that doesn't involve cultural tactics which are currently something I'll just tweak instead of overhauling for the moment.

In short, this project is basically an attempt at a comprehensive CK2 combat overhaul instead of simply improving vanilla tactics (which different mods have done quite well in different extents too). So essentially, a different scope/approach altogether :3
 

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while I'm not sure if they changed it post-RoI recently, but the previous AGOT mod tactics (at least the pre-RoI copy I have) are still heavily based on vanilla, yet more accurately expounds on them by giving each tactic five tiers. while that's certainly a better state than vanilla's, it's not exactly what I had in mind.
Basically, what I want is to create unique tactics that depend on unit composition a lot. instead of merely 15 skirmish tactics, I have roughly 40~50 different skirmish tactics that take army composition into account, plus around 70+ melee tactics which also take various compositions into account instead of vanilla's roughly 15 or so as well. Of course, that doesn't involve cultural tactics which are currently something I'll just tweak instead of overhauling for the moment.

In short, this project is basically an attempt at a comprehensive CK2 combat overhaul instead of simply improving vanilla tactics (which different mods have done quite well in different extents too). So essentially, a different scope/approach altogether :3
Roger.

Too bad Paradox can't buy it from ya :p
 

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I'd worry more about if I can actually encode them all in the first place before even thinking about Pdox adopting the concept :rofl:
(well, since I'm focusing 70% of my modding time here now, it should be fine I guess ^_^ )
 

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so I decided to clean up the list by first making an outline that lists the relevant tactic-groups as well as their strengths and weaknesses vis-a-vis other tactic-groups. Since I'm not that well versed as an armchair general, I'm curious if anyone has feedback on them.

I've also updated the OP by adding in the half-done re-organization of the outline (because I was having trouble coding it myself since I got confused by the disorganized draft-ish outline previously) for that matter. I still haven't finished it - the OP currently is organized for most the Skirmish Phase Tactics (sans *Opportunity Attacks*), after which it becomes a mess of incomplete/draft tactics.

Still, most of the tactics I want to add are in anyway. I just need ideas for the empty categories (specifically *Opportunity Attacks*, *Combined Arms Advance*, *Offensive Formations*, *Defensive Traps*, and *Melee Avoidance*).

Suggestions, anyone? ( I mean, anyone who actually reads this thread of course - it's basically accumulating tumbleweeds as usual :rofl: )

[hr][/hr]

notes: offensive/defensive tactics simply indicate where the buffs are concentrated (ie. offensive/defensive buffs), and are not restricted to attacker/defenders

#####SKIRMISH PHASE#####
##Offensive Tactics##

*Cavalry Strikes*
- weak vs Shield Formations & Manoeuvres
- strong vs Infantry Screening

*Archery Strikes*
- weak vs Shield Formations & Manoeuvres & Ambushes
- strong vs Cavalry Strikes

*Infantry Screening*
- weak vs Archery Strikes & Cavalry Strikes
- strong vs Ambushes & Manoeuvres

##Defensive Tactics##

*Shield Formations*
- weak vs Infantry Screening
- strong vs Cavalry Strikes

*Manoeuvres*
- weak vs Infantry Screening
- strong vs Ambushes

*Ambushes*
- weak vs Manoeuvres
- strong vs Infantry Screening


##Melee Transitions##
(TRANSITION TO MELEE)
note: transition to melee automatically uses melee stats and melee tactics for defender
note: transition after 15 days (except for opportunity attacks at 10 days)

*Standard Charge*
- strong vs NONE
- weak vs Defensive Traps & Combined Arms Advance & Mounted Combined Defensive

*Combined Arms Charge*
- weak vs NONE
- strong vs Standard Charge

*Opportunity Attacks*
(tactics that trigger when the enemy has a certain tactic)
- weak vs NONE
- strong vs TRIGGER TACTICS

#####MELEE PHASE#####

##Offensive Tactics##

*Foot-Melee Advance*
- weak vs Cavalry Counter-charge & Ranged Combined Defensive
- strong vs Blundered Advance

*Range-Melee Advance*
- weak vs Cavalry Counter-charge
- strong vs Massed Infantry & Blundered Advance

*Cavalry-Melee Advance*
- weak vs Ranged-Melee Advance
- strong vs Massed Infantry & Blundered Advance

*Combined Arms Advance*
- weak vs Defensive Traps
- strong vs Blundered Advance


##Defensive Tactics##

*Massed Infantry*
- weak vs Combined Arms
- strong vs Foot-Melee Advance

*Cavalry Counter-charge*
- weak vs Ranged Combined Defensive & Combined Arms
- strong vs Cavalry-Melee Advance & Ranged-Melee Advance

*Ranged Combined Defensive*
- weak vs Combined Arms
- strong vs Cavalry-Melee Advance

*Mounted Combined Defensive*
- weak vs Offensive Formations
- strong vs Blundered Advance


##Special Tactics##

*Blundered Advance*
- weak vs NONE/ALL (all get affinity bonus vs this)
- strong vs NONE/ALL (tactic has mostly maluses with minimal bonii)

*Offensive Formations*
(misc tactics - martial/learning dependent)
- weak vs NONE
- strong vs TRIGGER TACTIC

*Defensive Traps*
(misc tactics - martial/intrigue dependent)
- weak vs NONE
- strong vs TRIGGER TACTIC

*Melee Avoidance*
(TRANSITION TO SKIRMISH)
notes: again, skirmish values are automatically used
- weak vs NONE
- strong vs TRIGGER TACTICS
 
Last edited:

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v0A_VANILLA release

PHASE 1 UPDATE - version 0A_Vanilla released

DOWNLOAD 0A_Vanilla

Release Notes:
All Skirmish Tactics added in, but not fully fleshed out.
Borrowed Six Gun South's Better Armies's tactics and sprites.

Known Issues:
a "light_infantry_offensive" tactic shows up, but I'm unable to make it disappear without locking some code in a quarantine


[hr][/hr]

Heh, so I finally mananged to get a release out.
This works with vanilla for now.

As I noted, I'm having difficulty finding out why that non-tactic shows up.
Can anyone help? ( I mean, assuming anyone even reads this thread >_< )
Here's the code block that seems to cause it (ie. removing this removes the bug)
Code:
#Desert Ambush#
sk_am_desertambush = {
	days = 4
	sprite = 11
	group = sk_ambushes

	trigger = {
		phase = skirmish
		flank_has_leader = yes
		location = {
		terrain = desert
		}
		leader = {
		martial = 8
		intrigue = 8
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		days = 3		
		# commander
		modifier = {
			factor = 5
			leader = {
			OR = { 
			trait = desert_terrain_leader #bonus
			trait = experimenter #bonus
			trait = trickster #bonus
				}
			}
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 5
			leader = {
			martial = 16 #bonus
			}
		#composition independent
		#location
		modifier = {
			factor = 5
			location = {
				terrain = desert
			}			
		}
		}
		
	}
	light_infantry_offensive = 0.25
	archers_offensive = 0.25
	light_cavalry_offensive = 0.5
	camel_cavalry_offensive = 1
	horse_archers_offensive = 0.5
	
	enemy = {
		group = sk_manoeuvres
		factor = -0.5
	}
	enemy = {
		group = sk_infantryscreening
		factor = 1
	}

}

#Crushing Desert Ambush#
sk_am_crushingdesertambush = {
	days = 4
	sprite = 7
	group = sk_ambushes

	trigger = {
		phase = skirmish
		flank_has_leader = yes
		location = {
		terrain = desert
		}
		leader = {
		martial = 16
		intrigue = 8
		OR = { 
			trait = desert_terrain_leader 
			trait = experimenter 
			trait = trickster 
				}
			}
		}
	

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		days = 3		
		# commander
		modifier = {
			factor = 5
			leader = {
			OR = { 
			trait = desert_terrain_leader #bonus
			trait = experimenter #bonus
			trait = trickster #bonus
				}
			
			}		
		}
		#composition independent
		#location
		modifier = {
			factor = 5
			location = {
				terrain = desert
			}			
		}
		
	}
	light_infantry_offensive = 0.5
	archers_offensive = 0.5
	light_cavalry_offensive = 1
	camel_cavalry_offensive = 2
	horse_archers_offensive = 1
	
	enemy = {
		group = sk_manoeuvres
		factor = -0.25
	}
	enemy = {
		group = sk_infantryscreening
		factor = 1.5
	}

}

Aside from that, I'm also not really fully satisfied with the way tactics are being selected/weighted, and I'd like your opinion on how to fully tighten them up as well. I've updated the OP, so the list of tactics and their relevant modifiers there is exactly how they're coded (barring unintentional typos I might have failed to catch).
 
Last edited:

riknap

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v0B_VANILLA/HIP UPDATE

PHASE 1 UPDATE - version 0B_Vanilla and 0B_HIP released

DOWNLOAD 0B_Vanilla
DOWNLOAD 0B_HIP

Release Notes:
All Skirmish Tactics are in and bug-fixed, but not fully fleshed out yet.
Still borrowed Six Gun South's Better Armies's tactics.
Added a new set of icons for tactics

Known Issues:
HIP updated for v 2.854 with Project Balance, so some of PB's balances are implemented. Remove the defines.lua if you don't like PB's balance tweaking (and forgo the Unit Rebalance module as a result)
Better Armies tactics (ie. the melee filler tactics) were made pre-RoI, so elephants are not affected by melee tactics (skirmish tactics affect them though).
Since Better Armies tactics are used as the melee filler tactics, there may be some cultural incompatibilities that just results in some tactics not being chosen.

[hr][/hr]

Heh, so I finally mananged to get an update, and included HIP as well - more accurately, I'm simply taking their defines.lua with PB selected and adding in my tweaks. So presumably, this technically requires Project Balance, but I'm guessing at least 90% probably use PB as well anyway, so... there's that.

The Lux Invicta release is probably going to be part of the LI release proper, so I won't release a separate update for now. I'll probably separate them again for the phase II update (and re-integrate phase II once it has been bug-fixed... somehow).

Anyway, that aside, this is mostly a bug-fix update (hopefully removing all the CTD's from the past) and some graphic fixes (I made the icons by re-editing the vanilla icons from scratch, tweaking their colour hues instead: reddish for bad, orange-ish for neutral, greenish for good).

Thanks a lot to richvh for helping me remove the bugs (at least for the LI version. the HIP/Vanilla versions might have some residual bugs coming from the original Better Armies tactics) as well as Darkgamma for putting up with me with that mutual confusion about "background" layers.
 
Last edited:

loup99

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Known Issues:
HIP updated for v 2.854 with Project Balance active
Just wondering, what does this mean? Is it incompatible with HIP on older versions of PB-SWMH or simply SWMH? :huh:

EDIT: Isn't that only the SWMH versioning number? Does that means that it requires PB-SWMH on that version in addition to PB? HIP as a whole uses dates to number their updates, if I remember correctly.
 
Last edited:

Choksquaker

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OMG OMG OMG!!!

Cant wait to try this mod along HIP!!!

One question: There is a well-know bug related to special units sprites (mongol archers, byzantine cataphracts,etc) brought by Rajas of India. If i apply the unnoficial fix, will i
be able to play HIP or your mod?
 

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I.... just used the HIP version number really. Since I usually install HIP with all options (sans VIET Immersion), I believe it technically requires Project Balance as well (I haven't checked in detail how the different versions work. Meneth might help me clarify that in the other thread)

I'm not sure what the unofficial fix is about, but if it doesn't change the files "combat_tactics.txt, defines.lua, combat_tactics_strip.dds, and combat.gfx", there should be no problem.
I believe it shouldn't, since IIRC the issue was either with the avatars or the icons. I can't remember :laugh:

If you're referring to this fix however, then that might be an issue, since the Better Armies mod that I'm using as filler for my melee portion was made pre-RoI. More accurately, there are no tactics that involves elephants in the melee phase, so they technically aren't affected by melee tactics right now (elephants are affected by the ABCDE skirmish tactics though).
 
Last edited:

richvh

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Riknap, you forgot to include a .mod.

Edit: Looking at a validator output on the vanilla file, you're using what I assume are VIET cultures (cornish, sicilian, sicilian_greek, etc), and still using NOT = { martial = 0 } (my edits on the LI file in that regard have not been carried over here.)
 
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riknap

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Riknap, you forgot to include a .mod.
yay me...

I'll reupload them in a while, but for now, here they are:
vanilla: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1y9vmrn6iqmxezb/projectABCDE_vanilla.mod?dl=0
HIP: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h2gguhbsfmepv5g/projectABCDE_HIP.mod?dl=0

Edit: Looking at a validator output on the vanilla file, you're using what I assume are VIET cultures (cornish, sicilian, sicilian_greek, etc), and still using NOT = { martial = 0 } (my edits on the LI file in that regard have not been carried over here.)
they were.
more accurately, that code belongs to Better Armies. the code you edited in LI was the non-cultural melee part, while the cultural-melee part was not edited (I'll do a quick replace and change them as I reupload it)
as for cultures, I haven't really taken a look at them, since the melee code is a placeholder as I'm concerned (and will be replaced in the next phase). that said, since Better Armies was originally made specifically for CK2plus, I believe those are CK2+ cultures.
 
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richvh

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Here are the bogus cultures (a different set than I encountered in the LI file, though some are the same):
--- Error 1 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [bad_saracen_archer_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 15034, column 5):
"sicilian" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 2 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [bad_saracen_archer_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 15036, column 5):
"sicilian_greek" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 3 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [bad_saracen_archer_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 15035, column 5):
"sicilian_arabic" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 4 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [saracen_archer_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 14891, column 5):
"sicilian" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 5 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [saracen_archer_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 14892, column 5):
"sicilian_arabic" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 6 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [saracen_archer_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 14893, column 5):
"sicilian_greek" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 7 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [good_saracen_archer_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 14734, column 5):
"sicilian_arabic" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 8 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [good_saracen_archer_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 14733, column 5):
"sicilian" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 9 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [good_saracen_archer_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 14735, column 5):
"sicilian_greek" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 10 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [bad_heavy_cav_charge_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture_group] (Line 7422, column 5):
"crusader_group" is not a valid CultureGroup or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 11 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [heavy_cav_charge_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture_group] (Line 7274, column 5):
"crusader_group" is not a valid CultureGroup or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 12 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [good_heavy_cav_charge_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture_group] (Line 7111, column 5):
"crusader_group" is not a valid CultureGroup or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 13 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [bad_housecarl_advance_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 6146, column 5):
"english_norse" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 14 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [good_housecarl_advance_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 5848, column 5):
"english_norse" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 15 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [bad_longbow_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 5721, column 5):
"cornish" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 16 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [good_longbow_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 5422, column 5):
"cornish" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
--- Error 17 of 17 ---
At <mod>\common\combat_tactics.txt [longbow_volley_tactic\trigger\leader\OR\culture] (Line 5579, column 5):
"cornish" is not a valid Culture or ThisChar, ThisProv, ThisTitle, or OpinionClauseDefinedTypes.
You can just do a search and replace on the martial bit. (I used NOT = { martial = 1 } as the replacement.)

The other errors that turned up were all the invalid tactic group errors, which I've put an error report in the Validator thread about. I don't have HIP installed, so won't check that one.
 

riknap

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I honestly don't know what to do with the cultures :rofl:
if they don't cause CTD's, then I'll just leave them be. that'll probably only result in those tactics not being chosen, I think...


edit:
the files are now updated (8/28/2014, 0032hrs, UTC+8).
the same links should now be pointing to the new files (.mod files included and small fixes to a modifier).
I didn't change the culture definitions for now, since I don't exactly know what to replace them with and they're intended as filler anyway. If they don't cause CTD's, then that's good enough.
 
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richvh

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The ones in the LI file were all in OR clauses, I just commented out the stray cultures. Shouldn't cause CTDs, but I won't guarantee it.
 

Choksquaker

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I.... just used the HIP version number really. Since I usually install HIP with all options (sans VIET Immersion), I believe it technically requires Project Balance as well (I haven't checked in detail how the different versions work. Meneth might help me clarify that in the other thread)

I'm not sure what the unofficial fix is about, but if it doesn't change the files "combat_tactics.txt, defines.lua, combat_tactics_strip.dds, and combat.gfx", there should be no problem.
I believe it shouldn't, since IIRC the issue was either with the avatars or the icons. I can't remember :laugh:

If you're referring to this fix however, then that might be an issue, since the Better Armies mod that I'm using as filler for my melee portion was made pre-RoI. More accurately, there are no tactics that involves elephants in the melee phase, so they technically aren't affected by melee tactics right now (elephants are affected by the ABCDE skirmish tactics though).

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...phract-Unit-Visual-Fix&highlight=horse+archer

Thats the fix i was talking about. It changes the defines.lua, so i guess i have no choice other than wait for patch 2.1.7 , and GOD only knows when Paradox will release it :(

This broke my spirit, i feel like a peasant leader crushed in CK2 ......
 
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