[MOD] A New World, The Dawn of Empires

[ryousei]

"The" modified version? Not to sound selfish or anything, but this seems a bit shameless. Not only did I not ever get a question if you could change my mod and upload it (which I think most people actually do), but then you actually come here and suggest people use that instead on the mods forum? At least I'd like to be asked first...
But sure, if anyone wants to use an old modified version of my mod go ahead. =P

Firstly, I'd like to say hugely great work on this mod, I've always loved this type of mod, played all of them back then they weren't nearly as a good as this one. And I have alot of respect for you guys who make the games better seeing as I'm too noob to do it.


On this issue though, I'm very sorry if you feel any of us stole your work. But I'm not sure if you remember, during the setup for the first MP game based on this mod, I asked in this topic (~pg 20ish) if you/we could change some things in this topic to suit a MP game. To which DeCyde replied it was easy for him to do it himself and you made some positive comments that I can't quite remember but also saying that you play MP with the official version and it works out.
Following that, you even came into our MP thread telling us to post here the changes we were suggesting in the MP thread.

Again I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but I think we all got the impression you were totally fine with it and actually wanted us to also share our ideas/changes with you and the bigger community.

Also I really like the attitude you took earlier about ignoring much of the negative criticism and requests that don't match your own vision for this mod, I think you are right in that you can't please everyone. In the same way, we don't really want to pressure you to change the official mod into something we want if its not something you want, so it will be good if we can get your blessing to make our own modifications to suit our public multiplayer purposes. (BTW I also play the official mod in single player, its very fun too but its much more luck based than the one we use for MP).

 

[Gladdig_kaga]

What factions can be formed are in common/objectives/00_factions.txt. Then there are faction related decisions in decisions/faction_decisions.txt and faction related events in events/plot_events.txt.

Wow you're fast! Thanks!

Firstly, I'd like to say hugely great work on this mod, I've always loved this type of mod, played all of them back then they weren't nearly as a good as this one. And I have alot of respect for you guys who make the games better seeing as I'm too noob to do it.


On this issue though, I'm very sorry if you feel any of us stole your work. But I'm not sure if you remember, during the setup for the first MP game based on this mod, I asked in this topic (~pg 20ish) if you/we could change some things in this topic to suit a MP game. To which DeCyde replied it was easy for him to do it himself and you made some positive comments that I can't quite remember but also saying that you play MP with the official version and it works out.
Following that, you even came into our MP thread telling us to post here the changes we were suggesting in the MP thread.

Again I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but I think we all got the impression you were totally fine with it and actually wanted us to also share our ideas/changes with you and the bigger community.

Also I really like the attitude you took earlier about ignoring much of the negative criticism and requests that don't match your own vision for this mod, I think you are right in that you can't please everyone. In the same way, we don't really want to pressure you to change the official mod into something we want if its not something you want, so it will be good if we can get your blessing to make our own modifications to suit our public multiplayer purposes. (BTW I also play the official mod in single player, its very fun too but its much more luck based than the one we use for MP).

When I posted in that thread I had just skimmed through the comments, since I didn't really like the rules of the MP, so I missed that you where actually going to make a huge modmod (is that the correct word? xD), I thought it was a discussion about if this mod even is playable in multiplayer. But I saw alot of ideas that never reached this thread, so I asked to to come with the ideas here. But even then barely anything reached this thread, so I felt like I was missing out on important criticism.

Later I noticed that it actually where a submod, one or two weeks ago, but was unsure what to do about it or how I felt about it (still with the feeling that I was going to miss out on criticism and ideas, but at the same time that otherwise it doesn't really hurt me in any way.)

Then suddenly right after the release of a new version, someone is actually giving me criticism, about the non horde start being a bit unplayable due to a misstake I made (much needed criticism), but then I see the response to that, that I felt then to be more or less "don't bother with the new version, go and play this modified old version that I've made instead". Which more or less would lead to (at least the way I felt it) the only real problem I had with someone going and making their own version of my mod and making their own thread about it, criticism going to that thread, but not mine.

It was probably a bit harsh reaction, but all that together with lack of sleep and a really really bad day, one can make rash decisions.

 

[Arron17]

I'm confused about the start of the game. I did 20 Years of the horde mode and when I become civilized everywhere I've captured turns back into individual counties again. What's going on?

 

[Bloodly]

Started at 51, got through to 113. I'm a King-did it as soon as I got the initial 'We will act more civilised' event(Cost pretty much everything I had). How the heck am I gonna hand out 242 provinces?(It was...interesting leading death stacks around later and basically building up force while it wanders around-this being the only way to build up force to take the stack-if you even bother). Apparently there's a self-destruct coming-I hope it's soon because practically every province is getting the Thieves Guild and Smugglers Ring and so on, so it's very difficult to act on much. Worse yet, I'm still at war with some people and though I'm civilised, I still have the Barbarism buff. I keep getting a 'The hordes have accepted our greatness' event. Wonder what it'll lead to?

Thoughts:

You're gonna have to use Train Troops and selective building if you want any ships at all during Barbarism(You need to have enough positive % and enough potential ships to break through the -100% to Levy/Garrison. A similar thing with a Chancellor can get you a pitiful dribble of cash), which means an Island start isn't very effective unless it's somewhere like Ireland. On the other hand, this also means you're not likely to be harassed once your island's clear.

Don't even bother handing anything off-the nature of rando-war means that they're likely to turn on you by RNG-sometimes immediately. The problem here is rando-war doesn't respect what should be blood ties or at least gratitude.

Can't shake the imagery of these new soldiers crawling out of the ground every time a conquest happens.

Second holding is 500. Third is 1250. What the heck? You're not gonna get your initial 3 for a LONG time, to say nothing of filling your holding slots past that-God knows what those prices are set to. People are likely to spread the holdings than build in one place given those prices. It kinda negates having all the holding slots there in the first place, it feels like.

Still got the ahead penalties, which have been consistent at 80%. Hope it drops soon.

 

[Oden19]

Hello!
I have noticed that some holdings in the new provinces can´t be given to vassals.

 

[stars2heaven]

Started at 51, got through to 113. I'm a King-did it as soon as I got the initial 'We will act more civilised' event(Cost pretty much everything I had). How the heck am I gonna hand out 242 provinces?(It was...interesting leading death stacks around later and basically building up force while it wanders around-this being the only way to build up force to take the stack-if you even bother). Apparently there's a self-destruct coming-I hope it's soon because practically every province is getting the Thieves Guild and Smugglers Ring and so on, so it's very difficult to act on much. Worse yet, I'm still at war with some people and though I'm civilised, I still have the Barbarism buff. I keep getting a 'The hordes have accepted our greatness' event. Wonder what it'll lead to?

I think this is a bug. You should not be able to become a king at all just after you become civilized. What should happen is the self destruct you mentioned. You should go back to one county before being able to make any titles. Currently, making a title first prevents this from happening.

Thoughts:

Second holding is 500. Third is 1250. What the heck? You're not gonna get your initial 3 for a LONG time, to say nothing of filling your holding slots past that-God knows what those prices are set to. People are likely to spread the holdings than build in one place given those prices. It kinda negates having all the holding slots there in the first place, it feels like.

In my opinion this is a good thing. What will happen is only the wealthiest of kingdoms will build the extra holdings and it will help to differentiate wealthier areas from poorer areas. It also creates an element of strategy that wasn't there before. Now, fighting over key provinces where a lot of holdings have been built is definitely worth it. In the previous version the whole world was destined for 7 holdings in every province withing only a few hundred years. It made small areas that should be very weak and poor become monsters and made for scenarios that made little sense.

Still got the ahead penalties, which have been consistent at 80%. Hope it drops soon.

It won't change till around year 200-300. This is to help mitigate technology progression which was out of control in the previous version.

 

[stars2heaven]

Hello!
I have noticed that some holdings in the new provinces can´t be given to vassals.

Which ones and at what year?

 

[stars2heaven]

I'm confused about the start of the game. I did 20 Years of the horde mode and when I become civilized everywhere I've captured turns back into individual counties again. What's going on?

I think Gladdigs purpose of the initial stage has absolutely nothing to do with expanding your borders. It has everything to do with expanding your culture and religion. Then you go back to a single county and start to play the real game. The previous version was similar in ways to this with the large families and the gavelkind succession forcing you back to a much smaller number of holdings at some point.

 

[Bloodly]

In my opinion this is a good thing. What will happen is only the wealthiest of kingdoms will build the extra holdings and it will help to differentiate wealthier areas from poorer areas. It also creates an element of strategy that wasn't there before. Now, fighting over key provinces where a lot of holdings have been built is definitely worth it. In the previous version the whole world was destined for 7 holdings in every province withing only a few hundred years. It made small areas that should be very weak and poor become monsters and made for scenarios that made little sense.

The thing that determines 'rich or poor' is what's in the holding slots and what's been built there. Given that there's 7 holding slots for everyone, the reasoning makes little sense. The AI will rarely have the money for the provinces, because it will never actively save up for it, preferring to enhance what it has and spend on things like feasts 24-7(The main reason the Pope and Venice are able to build their stuff in standard so fast is they're getting so much because of what they are). And one of the major points of this set-up is new, alternate history. The idea of 'scenarioes that makes little sense' itself makes little sense.

It won't change till around year 200-300. This is to help mitigate technology progression which was out of control in the previous version.

Disappointing. I already have issues with rate of progression in 'standard'. This is worse. I want to feel like shooting for Universitys and Cathedral Schools is having a real effect.

EDIT: reloaded from a little bit before civilising. This time when the man showed up asking, the option was 'What will everyone else think?' losing minor prestige. That seems odd? Why was it different the first time(We simply had the option of 'we'd do it').

 

[stars2heaven]

The thing that determines 'rich or poor' is what's in the holding slots and what's been built there. Given that there's 7 holding slots for everyone, the reasoning makes little sense. The AI will rarely have the money for the provinces, because it will never actively save up for it, preferring to enhance what it has and spend on things like feasts 24-7. And one of the major points of this set-up is new, alternate history. The idea of 'scenarioes that makes little sense' itself makes little sense.

This isn't true. The AI often hoards it's money into the tens of thousands. Also, wealthy kingdoms become wealthy when they become very large. Set your game to observe and allow it to run for several hundred years. You will see this is true. The capitals of large kingdoms and duchies will have several holdings in them while small islands and provinces that are on their own usually have no more than 3.

Disappointing. I already have issues with rate of progression in 'standard'. This is worse. I want to feel like shooting fro Universitys and Cathedral Schools in having a real effect.

I don't understand. Doing that will have an effect because it will help mitigate the ahead penalty. In the previous version you always have something between a 200-300% bonus to tech progression which made universities and schools almost pointless.

In anycase, you can change both of these to whatever you like in the defines.lua file. .5 is the value for building costs in vanilla and setting the years to a lower number will give you a higher tech boost. You can also increase tech growth chance and everything else you might want to speed things up.

 

[Gohatwoono]

Is it possible to reduce the rate of epidemics by a tiny bit? I'm having three or four diseases hitting all my provinces every 5 or so years. Especially annoying is all the kids getting syphilis and dying at age 8. Aside from my first ruler I haven't had any character get above 23. The last one was killed by syphillis at 11. I keep having to reload because I run out of dynasty members. Is this something thats programmed in early on to ensure early instability? I guess if that is the intention its working, but I would rather know if it eventually ends, rather than play another 30 years only to find out that syphilis is continuing to wipe out three out of every ffour children.

 

[stars2heaven]

Is it possible to reduce the rate of epidemics by a tiny bit? I'm having three or four diseases hitting all my provinces every 5 or so years. Especially annoying is all the kids getting syphilis and dying at age 8. Aside from my first ruler I haven't had any character get above 23. The last one was killed by syphillis at 11. I keep having to reload because I run out of dynasty members. Is this something thats programmed in early on to ensure early instability? I guess if that is the intention its working, but I would rather know if it eventually ends, rather than play another 30 years only to find out that syphilis is continuing to wipe out three out of every ffour children.

I think you just had bad luck. Nothing was changed in regards to how frequently diseases occur. Everything works the same way that it does in vanilla.

 

[lemmy101]

Hello just trying new version of the mod out, and I can't seem to get any levies from my territories.

Built up about 10 territories but lost all my guys due to one unfortunate battle, and now people are declaring war on me on conquest for X, Y, Z and even if they only have 200 men there's literally nothing I can do to stop them.

One battle goes the wrong way and it's become a game over situation :/ What's changed between this and the last version in that regard? I can't train troops or anything since my city levies (about 10 counties) all amounts up to about 100 men :/ so it's like auto-game over and I've assassinated guys but it just puts another random lord in charge and carries on regardless.

 

[Gladdig_kaga]

Started at 51, got through to 113. I'm a King-did it as soon as I got the initial 'We will act more civilised' event(Cost pretty much everything I had). How the heck am I gonna hand out 242 provinces?(It was...interesting leading death stacks around later and basically building up force while it wanders around-this being the only way to build up force to take the stack-if you even bother). Apparently there's a self-destruct coming-I hope it's soon because practically every province is getting the Thieves Guild and Smugglers Ring and so on, so it's very difficult to act on much. Worse yet, I'm still at war with some people and though I'm civilised, I still have the Barbarism buff. I keep getting a 'The hordes have accepted our greatness' event. Wonder what it'll lead to?

Thoughts:

You're gonna have to use Train Troops and selective building if you want any ships at all during Barbarism(You need to have enough positive % and enough potential ships to break through the -100% to Levy/Garrison. A similar thing with a Chancellor can get you a pitiful dribble of cash), which means an Island start isn't very effective unless it's somewhere like Ireland. On the other hand, this also means you're not likely to be harassed once your island's clear.

Don't even bother handing anything off-the nature of rando-war means that they're likely to turn on you by RNG-sometimes immediately. The problem here is rando-war doesn't respect what should be blood ties or at least gratitude.

Can't shake the imagery of these new soldiers crawling out of the ground every time a conquest happens.

Second holding is 500. Third is 1250. What the heck? You're not gonna get your initial 3 for a LONG time, to say nothing of filling your holding slots past that-God knows what those prices are set to. People are likely to spread the holdings than build in one place given those prices. It kinda negates having all the holding slots there in the first place, it feels like.

Still got the ahead penalties, which have been consistent at 80%. Hope it drops soon.

The self destruct should come one day after you got civilized via events. Before that you shouldn't be a king, so how did you become king?
The extra holding spaces are there to make it possible to build more, not to fill out all with 7 holdings, then there won't be any difference. =P

The thing that determines 'rich or poor' is what's in the holding slots and what's been built there. Given that there's 7 holding slots for everyone, the reasoning makes little sense. The AI will rarely have the money for the provinces, because it will never actively save up for it, preferring to enhance what it has and spend on things like feasts 24-7(The main reason the Pope and Venice are able to build their stuff in standard so fast is they're getting so much because of what they are). And one of the major points of this set-up is new, alternate history. The idea of 'scenarioes that makes little sense' itself makes little sense.



Disappointing. I already have issues with rate of progression in 'standard'. This is worse. I want to feel like shooting for Universitys and Cathedral Schools is having a real effect.

EDIT: reloaded from a little bit before civilising. This time when the man showed up asking, the option was 'What will everyone else think?' losing minor prestige. That seems odd? Why was it different the first time(We simply had the option of 'we'd do it').

In the old versions everyone got an income of several hundreds per month, that was what I was trying to avoid.

People said technology went way to fast in previous versions, and since I don't know jack about technology, I tried to make it go slower. And right now more people have said yay than complained.

There are several event's that handles different scenarios for civilizing. Therefore I might have missed one. You shouldn't have a choice as that would make the game too easy. And a 50 % of your map with your culture group isnät very funny either I guess.

Hello just trying new version of the mod out, and I can't seem to get any levies from my territories. Have about 10 territories but lost all my guys in a battle due to one unfortunate battle, and now people are declaring war on me on conquest for X, Y, Z and even if they only have 200 men there's literally nothing I can do. One battle goes the wrong way and it's become a game over situation :/ What's changed between this and the last version in that regard? I can't train troops or anything since my city levies (about 10 counties) all amounts up to about 100 men :/ so it's like auto-game over and I've assassinated guys but it just puts another random lord in charge and carries on regardless.

Try not to defend yourself but instead attack their unguarded provinces with what you have. Right now this system is too easy if you do that. =P

I think you just had bad luck. Nothing was changed in regards to how frequently diseases occur. Everything works the same way that it does in vanilla.

Well they are as frequent in vanilla, except that they can happen any time after year 111. In vanilla they only happened during some decades and then never again.

 

[stars2heaven]

nvm

 

[lemmy101]

with 100 guys? when the guys declaring war on me have 1-5000 stacks?

 

[stars2heaven]

with 100 guys? when the guys declaring war on me have 1-5000 stacks?

The size of their army is actually their weakness. I don't even bother confronting their armies most of the time. I split my armies into groups of 300 and send them all to claim my enemy's counties. Hopefully he won't take more than 1 or 2 of mine and I'll net all of his. It might even be possible to take all of them without him taking any of yours. I'll load up a pic I took of my strategy for victory and it will be apparent what I do.

I set up my armies even before war begins. When it does, I often get instant victory. In the beginning, set your armies up in places where you can potentially defend and also where you can take territory from whoever declares war on you or whoever you declare war on. This is kind of gamey though....up to you if this is the sort of thing you want to do. I'm not sure if I like the fact that I can do this, to be honest. In some ways the previous system was better because this couldn't be done. I just wanted to expand my religion and culture as far as possible to make the proceeding game more difficult.

 

[Bloodly]

It amuses me that those screenshots are Bullom-same guys I'm using for my playthough. Went about the same from the looks of it.

And the AI can have worse than 5000. I've seen 32000. Same deal applies-avoid the enemy and take the provinces. You can take them back later and the enemy generally can't stop you all if you split up.

 

[stars2heaven]

It amuses me that those screenshots are Bullom-same guys I'm using for my playthough. Went about the same from the looks of it.

And the AI can have worse than 5000. I've seen 32000. Same deal applies-avoid the enemy and take the provinces. You can take them back later and the enemy generally can't stop you all if you split up.

I actually made it alot further..all the way up into norway and down into Italy. Rome gave me some real trouble though towards the end. They had captured a lot of previously civilized provinces and those had large garrisons so I couldn't insta grab the provinces and my 300 size armies didn't work either. They also had a very large army close to 20k strong. It was the first time I had to group my people together to defeat someone.

 

[ryousei]

Wow you're fast! Thanks!


When I posted in that thread I had just skimmed through the comments, since I didn't really like the rules of the MP, so I missed that you where actually going to make a huge modmod (is that the correct word? xD), I thought it was a discussion about if this mod even is playable in multiplayer. But I saw alot of ideas that never reached this thread, so I asked to to come with the ideas here. But even then barely anything reached this thread, so I felt like I was missing out on important criticism.

Later I noticed that it actually where a submod, one or two weeks ago, but was unsure what to do about it or how I felt about it (still with the feeling that I was going to miss out on criticism and ideas, but at the same time that otherwise it doesn't really hurt me in any way.)

Then suddenly right after the release of a new version, someone is actually giving me criticism, about the non horde start being a bit unplayable due to a misstake I made (much needed criticism), but then I see the response to that, that I felt then to be more or less "don't bother with the new version, go and play this modified old version that I've made instead". Which more or less would lead to (at least the way I felt it) the only real problem I had with someone going and making their own version of my mod and making their own thread about it, criticism going to that thread, but not mine.

It was probably a bit harsh reaction, but all that together with lack of sleep and a really really bad day, one can make rash decisions.

Totally understandable, we should have probably asked more directly. I just hope we have your permission now =).

Of course we can post all the changes we made here into this forum too to see if you like it. But tbh, the changes are mostly to reduce random elements so MP is more fair, many of the features we removed are quite fun in SP. Eg. I think it was made that barbarians can no longer attacked civilised, because its sort of luck if theres a big barbarian blob near you, and also luck how many of your counties still have barbarian left. For competitive MP its not really fun if problems only plague some players and not others.

People said technology went way to fast in previous versions, and since I don't know jack about technology, I tried to make it go slower. And right now more people have said yay than complained.

Personally I think faster technology growth would be abit better. Of course it depends on the length of people's games. I think atm, it would take at least 700 or more years for a county to get max tech even if you race for universities. Thats too long for me.