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Zoston

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Would build holding work even if the maximum of provinces has been reached?
And what would the algorithm for making the rich and poor areas be?

Right now for the next version I have made building additional holdings much more expensive which would help to simulate both of hte above, but I would like ways to destroy holdings and holding upgrades. Right now I only know that destroying holding upgrades is possible.
You'd have to do some testing as to what is or isn't possible, I'm not sure on all the limits. Build holding does work even if the maximum has been reached (but not above 7 iirc). My personal basic suggestion is to make it dependent on the size of the empire. So large empires will have their capital and major provinces grow to the full seven holdings, whereas backwaters will be lucky just to get three. Similarly to how Rome and Constantinople grew to be giant cities because they were the centre of large empires.
For a fully flexible system you'd have to be able to destroy holdings, which is impossible iirc. But I think it's a good compromise to have the early empires decide where the rich provinces with lots of holdings will be. For example if Sicily conquers Italy, then Sicily will likely become a 7-holding province, while Venice stays at 3. But if Venice conquers Italy it would be in reverse.
That's just my basic simple suggestion, you can always come up with something more ambitious if you want to of course.

Making holdings way more expensive helps a lot to of course, but in the long run it just delays the problem I think.

EDIT: Oh and I was also thinking just now. If you use events and the build holding command, I think you could probably add basic things like the event for building a fourth holding requiring that no neighbouring province has 4 or more holdings. Basic stuff so that you'll have like regional capital provinces with 4 or 5 holdings, which can be decided mostly randomly.
 
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Making events for building holdings could be interesting, but making them more expensive is probably sufficient. I have the modifier set to 1.5 and by year 400 few provinces have more than three holdings. More than that is almost exclusively reserved for very wealthy kings who became that wealthy by having an excessively large number of vassals. This sort of scenario plays out very infrequently and when it does it doesn't tend to last more than a few hundred years.

Giving the AI more things to spend it's money on would also contribute. I think another reason why the AI never hordes enough money to build these higher tier holdings in my games is at least in part due to being able to buy mercenaries. Wars are near constant and mercs are always being bought up. I've even seen the AI lose land to them when they ran out of gold to pay.
 

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Is there any way to make a title be named on the mao after the culture of the top liege similar to how some titles are shown with the name of the dynasty?

Is there any way to make the demesne limit higher for some cultures?
 

Zoston

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Is there any way to make a title be named on the mao after the culture of the top liege similar to how some titles are shown with the name of the dynasty?

Is there any way to make the demesne limit higher for some cultures?
I don't think so. The title as name of dynasty is a specific Muslim feature from SoI that has to be set in the culture files. Afaik the only thing you can do is have specific cultures use dynasty name instead of title name, but that's it.

There's apparently a static culture modifier: http://ckiiwiki.com/Static_Modifiers, but afai can tell there's no command to increase/decrease demesne limit. You can try using events to give all character's of a certain culture a trait that increases/decrease stewardship. But not sure if that'll get you what you want. (Though you could check if the SHORT_REIGN_LENGTH modifier from the legalism tech also increases demesne limit)
 

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After some testing I have come to the conclution that it's not the religion that matters, but the culture. For example if I change the fatamid sultan to a german the name Egypt will show. However changing the religion does nothing. I could also change back from the german kingdom of egypt to andalusian culture, and the name Fatamid is shown again, even if he is a catholic. However, if I do this with a title that isn't shown by the name oif the dynasty like france or the HRE it is never show by the name of the rulers dynasty. So I guess something in the title must also affect but I don't know what.

I doubt the SHORT_REIGN_LENGTH affect demesne limit. The legalism effect on demesne limit is in defines.lua. But that would affect everyones demesne limit. Is it possible to give people of one culture a temporary bonus to legalism?
I could increase stewardship, but when you get close to 100 in stewardship it goes back to zero (it's probably a 8 bit value). So it will be hard getting absurd sizes for the demesne limit.
 

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I doubt the SHORT_REIGN_LENGTH affect demesne limit. The legalism effect on demesne limit is in defines.lua. But that would affect everyones demesne limit. Is it possible to give people of one culture a temporary bonus to legalism?
I could increase stewardship, but when you get close to 100 in stewardship it goes back to zero (it's probably a 8 bit value). So it will be hard getting absurd sizes for the demesne limit.

The game gives you:
- Base demense size
- Modifiers based on rank
- Modifiers based on stewardship
- Modifiers based on being in Gavelkind

Unless you want Gavelkind characters to have massive demenses, and no one else, or giving some people an extra 20-40 stewardship (and in Gavelkind, that's 6.5 - 13 holdings), that's all you can do. You might want to balance out the effect of that much stewardship on tax income, though, so the characters don't become fantastically wealthy (maybe the +40 stewardship comes with -40% tax income?).
 

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I am considering using gavelkind, since nobody really likes and uses gavelkind anyway, I guess it's no big deal.

Edit: I just noticed that the create holy seat decisions slows down the game awfully since I have one for each religion and decisions are tested every day. Is there any way to scope to the religious leader title even if it doesn't exist?

Does anybody have any other idea how a religious seat would be created instead of via decision?

Edit2: Never mind. I managed to work around it.
 
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Gladdig, thanks for making this mod its brilliant.
Now I have some questions: Would it be possible to decrease the amount of holdings per county to 4 (from 7 where it is now)? Or scale up the price for additional holdings?
If so how would I go about doing this?
 

Zoston

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After some testing I have come to the conclution that it's not the religion that matters, but the culture. For example if I change the fatamid sultan to a german the name Egypt will show. However changing the religion does nothing. I could also change back from the german kingdom of egypt to andalusian culture, and the name Fatamid is shown again, even if he is a catholic. However, if I do this with a title that isn't shown by the name oif the dynasty like france or the HRE it is never show by the name of the rulers dynasty. So I guess something in the title must also affect but I don't know what.
Within the 00_cultures.txt there's a codeline "dynasty_title_names = yes", this sets whether a culture uses the dynasty name or the title name. I'm not sure why it doesn't work using France instead of Egypt, I had some problems in one game where the dynasty titles would only kick in after there'd been a change in dynasty, but I'm not sure how you're testing it.
 

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Gladdig, thanks for making this mod its brilliant.
Now I have some questions: Would it be possible to decrease the amount of holdings per county to 4 (from 7 where it is now)? Or scale up the price for additional holdings?
If so how would I go about doing this?
The price will scale much worse in the next version.

Within the 00_cultures.txt there's a codeline "dynasty_title_names = yes", this sets whether a culture uses the dynasty name or the title name. I'm not sure why it doesn't work using France instead of Egypt, I had some problems in one game where the dynasty titles would only kick in after there'd been a change in dynasty, but I'm not sure how you're testing it.
I didn't try changing dynasty.
I also now noticed that it doesn't seem to work with independent counts either.
 

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Hello! This mod is wonderful! I love how it works and the way the world forms and evolves cultures and religions!

Only a few of issues I noticed, which are entirely subjective but I find to be of detriment to my enjoyment of the game. Other opinions may differ or I may have got the wrong end of the stick or not seen an obvious solution so do please let me know if that is the case.

1) Not sure if this is a bug, or I just didn't wait long enough, but the King above me had open elective as succession law, and as a vassal I clicked on the laws page and there was no successor nominated, just a question mark icon and no nominate button. There seemed to be no way to affect succession, which seemed completely random from my perspective.

2) Once the world becomes 'civilized', as far as I can tell it defaults to Agnatic for everyone and the AI seldom chooses to change that of its own accord, and it's not a faction / plot option to change your liege laws in that way. As someone who vastly prefers using tactical marriages and either factions / pushing claims or spymaster murders to get rid of male heirs to usurp thrones, I found it practically impossible to do this since everywhere I looked at was Agnatic. I suppose I could have done a matrilineal marriage but find this a lot more difficult. Any way to encourage at least a few more kingdoms into Agnatic Cognatic would make the resultant world a lot more fun to play in.

3) I'm not sure what the deal with the event that pops up where I have a choice of either dying, or a knight appearing in my court, but I clicked the knight option and suddenly an insane amount of troops (like 30-40 thousand in 10 thousand stacks) appeared from nowhere in my counties, more than any ruler in the world had at that stage (most I'd seen or had was about 1000), and wiped me out mercilessly. This wasn't clear from the event text, which suggested I would have a character appear in my court who I assumed I would be able to make a marshal or something and more a bonus than a game ending event. I also don't understand what happened or where all those soldiers came from or why there were so many. Also given the Gavelkind situation I found several times I would respond to a call to arms of a brother and find out he had picked this option, and again, the one act of agreeing to war with him would be a 100% certain game ender. I couldn't see any way to identify these crazy guys beforehand, so ended up having to turn down every call to arms I received just in case.

4) Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the ruler designer doesn't seem to work with this mod, or at least it doesn't if you change your dynasty name. I'll try next time leaving the dynasty name alone, but changing it resulted in my children not being of my dynasty meaning auto game over after one lifetime.

I'd also appreciate if anyone had any tips how to survive the savage period at the start, as after about 10 tries on very easy (and I consider myself a decent if not good player) I found it impossible to survive. Especially with all the events out of my control where I can get overrun by the magically appearing mega stacks or have myself auto-declare war on a bigger enemy who can then take all my land and will refuse surrender. I only got through it to play the rest finally by using observe and selecting a duke after the savage period ended. Though admittedly I did start at the earliest date

Thanks again for this mod, despite these things listed above it's one of the cleverest and most interesting mods I've seen for this game.
 
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Gladdig_kaga

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Hello! This mod is wonderful! I love how it works and the way the world forms and evolves cultures and religions!

Only a few of issues I noticed, which are entirely subjective but I find to be of detriment to my enjoyment of the game. Other opinions may differ or I may have got the wrong end of the stick or not seen an obvious solution so do please let me know if that is the case.

1) Not sure if this is a bug, or I just didn't wait long enough, but the King above me had open elective as succession law, and as a vassal I clicked on the laws page and there was no successor nominated, just a question mark icon and no nominate button. There seemed to be no way to affect succession, which seemed completely random from my perspective.

2) Once the world becomes 'civilized', as far as I can tell it defaults to Agnatic for everyone and the AI seldom chooses to change that of its own accord, and it's not a faction / plot option to change your liege laws in that way. As someone who vastly prefers using tactical marriages and either factions / pushing claims or spymaster murders to get rid of male heirs to usurp thrones, I found it practically impossible to do this since everywhere I looked at was Agnatic. I suppose I could have done a matrilineal marriage but find this a lot more difficult. Any way to encourage at least a few more kingdoms into Agnatic Cognatic would make the resultant world a lot more fun to play in.

3) I'm not sure what the deal with the event that pops up where I have a choice of either dying, or a knight appearing in my court, but I clicked the knight option and suddenly an insane amount of troops (like 30-40 thousand in 10 thousand stacks) appeared from nowhere in my counties, more than any ruler in the world had at that stage (most I'd seen or had was about 1000), and wiped me out mercilessly. This wasn't clear from the event text, which suggested I would have a character appear in my court who I assumed I would be able to make a marshal or something and more a bonus than a game ending event. I also don't understand what happened or where all those soldiers came from or why there were so many. Also given the Gavelkind situation I found several times I would respond to a call to arms of a brother and find out he had picked this option, and again, the one act of agreeing to war with him would be a 100% certain game ender. I couldn't see any way to identify these crazy guys beforehand, so ended up having to turn down every call to arms I received just in case.

4) Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the ruler designer doesn't seem to work with this mod, or at least it doesn't if you change your dynasty name. I'll try next time leaving the dynasty name alone, but changing it resulted in my children not being of my dynasty meaning auto game over after one lifetime.

I'd also appreciate if anyone had any tips how to survive the savage period at the start, as after about 10 tries on very easy (and I consider myself a decent if not good player) I found it impossible to survive. Especially with all the events out of my control where I can get overrun by the magically appearing mega stacks or have myself auto-declare war on a bigger enemy who can then take all my land and will refuse surrender. I only got through it to play the rest finally by using observe and selecting a duke after the savage period ended. Though admittedly I did start at the earliest date

Thanks again for this mod, despite these things listed above it's one of the cleverest and most interesting mods I've seen for this game.
1) It's a bug. I haven't seen it though.

2)I'll make everyone agnatic-cognatic when they civilize.

3)Doesn't it say that he has his mind set on conquering you entierly since your people think you're weak? But that gut is removed in teh next version since I have redesigned the horde system to make it faster and funnier to play.

4)I have had so many problems with every other version of this mod that it's hard to keep track if I had fixed it in the current version or not. Does anybody else have problems with ruler designer? At least it is working in the coming up version. =)

5)Don't attack with your army until you have about a thousand soldiers. Get that by using your martial to train troops while you build a church and upgrade your castle and later the church. And use your chancelor to oversee contruction as well. safe lands away to children until you have about 6 safe children, then give lands to a child on the border and they'll expand themselves. Now whenever you need them you can call them into war.
Never get negative prestige! And try not to have a too big demesne.

I'm not cruel at the beginning when I imprison and execute all my sons but the oldest one, am I? It seems so right....
No ofcourse not, you're basically a saint. :p
 

stars2heaven

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Actually, the open elective thing is not a bug. This is a case where a mayor became king. It happens all the time and is not the same as a king switching to elective monarchy. Successors are randomly generated. That is probably why once a kingdom becomes open elective it never changes.
 

stars2heaven

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3) I'm not sure what the deal with the event that pops up where I have a choice of either dying, or a knight appearing in my court, but I clicked the knight option and suddenly an insane amount of troops (like 30-40 thousand in 10 thousand stacks) appeared from nowhere in my counties, more than any ruler in the world had at that stage (most I'd seen or had was about 1000), and wiped me out mercilessly. This wasn't clear from the event text, which suggested I would have a character appear in my court who I assumed I would be able to make a marshal or something and more a bonus than a game ending event. I also don't understand what happened or where all those soldiers came from or why there were so many. Also given the Gavelkind situation I found several times I would respond to a call to arms of a brother and find out he had picked this option, and again, the one act of agreeing to war with him would be a 100% certain game ender. I couldn't see any way to identify these crazy guys beforehand, so ended up having to turn down every call to arms I received just in case.

this happened because you went negative on your prestige. You probably went negative on your prestige because you were hoarding too many counties. Give some away to family, preferably your heir

I'd also appreciate if anyone had any tips how to survive the savage period at the start, as after about 10 tries on very easy (and I consider myself a decent if not good player) I found it impossible to survive. Especially with all the events out of my control where I can get overrun by the magically appearing mega stacks or have myself auto-declare war on a bigger enemy who can then take all my land and will refuse surrender. I only got through it to play the rest finally by using observe and selecting a duke after the savage period ended. Though admittedly I did start at the earliest date

1. Try to stay at war with those YOU choose. You don't want to be forced into a conflict with the wrong person at the wrong time. This won't happen so long as you are at war with someone, so pick someone weak.

2. don't expand in just any direction. You want to minimize the number of neighbors you have so that fewer wars will be declared on you. The best way to do this is to take counties that lead to you having the fewest possible neighbors.

3. When it's getting close to time for the cultural shift around 111, you will want to keep as much land as you can. Try to get rid of some of your heirs somehow and try to have a larger demesne. It may eat up some prestige but so long as you don't go negative you'll be fine. Once the shift happens the barbarians next door who wouldn't attack you before (if they are of your culture) will be happy to do so now.

4. Try to spread your own culture and religion around a little by giving away land that you don't want or need. It will help protect you early on and create a more interesting game later. Barbarians are less inclined to attack others of their own culture when there are foreigners around to attack instead.

5. If someone declares war on you you don't have to take their land. You could just defeat their army, make them no longer a threat to you, and use their county as a sort of wall between you and whats beyond them. I don this all the time and it can really help.

6. Once you've won a fight, don't always enforce demands. Let the county transfer to you automatically. Enforcing demands won't give you the gold and sometime you have the recently conquered penalty.

7. Occasionally dismiss your troops, even if you are at war. It will help you to restore your numbers. Remember, even though you levies are always restoring you can't raise them until a certain percentage has restored while you have levies raised. If you dismiss the raised levies you can then raise everything. It can sometimes be a significant boost.

8. When you give away land, put your heir in a location that allows him to expand. Then place your other children/relatives somewhere behind him. He will gain more land and they will help him do it. Then, after succession, you should get all his land.

9. Another way to deal with succession is to conquer enough baronies to disinherit most of your male children. You will not be able to spread your religion and culture very far and the resulting game will be less interesting, but it is possible to keep a greater number of your original counties if you take this path.

10. If you have spread your dynasty all over the place, consider using seniority succession for a while. It is terrible once you get too big, but is very useful early in the game and allows you to unite more dynasty lands than other succession types.
 

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Actually, the open elective thing is not a bug. This is a case where a mayor became king. It happens all the time and is not the same as a king switching to elective monarchy. Successors are randomly generated. That is probably why once a kingdom becomes open elective it never changes.
Sounds like it's time for a violent revolution against the evil democracy!
 

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I could increase stewardship, but when you get close to 100 in stewardship it goes back to zero (it's probably a 8 bit value). So it will be hard getting absurd sizes for the demesne limit.

Actually it is more like 130ish (I cheat alot for fun games...don't tell anyone ;D) but that doesn't really do anything...but you should be able to keep about 30ish provinces.
 

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If I am correct that it is a 8 bit number it's 2^8/2 = 256/2 = 128 so not 130!!! xD

I think the new version will be released later today, but even though most of the details for the next release are on the first page, no one seem to be complaining about anything. And since everyone can't all like the same thing it can only mean one thing: You haven't read it! Bad community, no icecream for you today!
 

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Thanks for the tips / explanations guys! Got through the horde and made the Cornwall Empire. Was awesome :D Love this mod!

Also one other minor thing I was unsure of: Why are the dynasty names 'First XXX' and not 'XXX'? Since I couldn't use the Ruler Designer for the reasons I posted, I've got 'First Cornwallian' as my dynasty name instead of 'Cornwallian' all the way to the year 700 (observe) which seems a bit odd.