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Hiyo

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I've spent the past hundred years or so in my game trying to re-form the various Lord Paramount-cies. The Iron Throne, over the years, was seized by someone from everywhere except Dorne and the Iron Islands. When they seized it, they absorbed or destroyed their existing titles. The end result is a constant cycle of kings and near endless rebellion. For example, my aunt, nephew, and half-brother have been shuffling it between each other over the past 10 years.
 

HobbesMkII

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You didn't really answer my post about the demon in the Spider's fire. If there was indeed a demon (and we have little reason to believe that there wasn't) then we can clearly say that there is something behind the Red Faith. The practising of the Red Priests might be completely wrong, this is true, but that in and of itself is irrelevant- we have more reasons to believe that there is something supernatural about that particular religion than we do when it comes to the others. For all I know the Red God is really a blood thirsty demon.

And the Red Priestess is able to preform magic even when there were no dragons on the earth.

But I agree with you that, as far as the mod goes, it doesn't matter all that much right now. Latter, if all religions get their own events/etc it will matter.

As for the Drowned God, I just thought that they 'drowned' a person and revived him using tactics that we have to day- mouth to mouth, etc. I don't remember anything unusual about it.

I don't think Varys is any less susceptible to belief than anyone else. Just because he's shown himself to be a great cynic where it comes the game of thrones proves nothing about his susceptibility to religion. A lot of highly educated and adept politicians from Antiquity to the 1700s appear to have sincerely believed it when a priest claimed they were being shown a witch's black magic or the work of the devil.

The Drowned God effecting a personality shift on a drowned person doesn't greatly surprise me. You're surviving a near-death experience. Very few people don't change in some way because of that. Also, you could always suffer brain damage from oxygen deprivation, which could also cause you to undergo a personality change.

I'm unsure of how great the Red Priests' powers were prior to dragons. We're introduced only to one before that, Thoros of Myr, who has to light his sword on fire. Even if Varys didn't fall for a parlor trick (Melisandre augments her powers with smoke and powders, keep in mind), then it's quite possible that scrying the future, through fire reading, green dreams, or green sight aren't the same as the Warlocks' magic or raising the dead or birthing shadow assassins.

I have heard "the author is dead," but it's from a theory of literary criticism that is well over 70 years old (and today isn't very popular except in some high schools), and was meant to applied to a very specific type of work (mainstream literary fiction). GRRM's comments are clearly incredibly important to the mod, as otherwise we'd have to exclude all the CoAs he's described over the years, change the age of majority, disregard history only he's mentioned (the She-Wolves of Winterfell, for instance), etc. etc. The intentional fallacy approach (which is that phrase's fancy name) is clearly poorly designed for fantasy worlds, which are laid out in far greater detail by their author than what makes it onto the page. To disregard GRRM for the mod would be like saying to a Catholic it'd be perfectly alright to disregard the edicts laid out by Popes prior to the current one, because those men are also dead.
 

Cluiz

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As to the frequency of rebellions, half the problem (aside from the plot for the Iron Throne) is the fact that the King can revoke titles from vassals who have wronged him. So you end up with the Iron Throne holding territories across Westeros, resented by each of their vassals. I can't figure out why new rulers seem to do this, though. Perhaps its because the "buy loyalty" plot is an imprisonable offence, which in turn leads to revoked titles and increased tyranny upon a successful arrest, and a rapidly growing rebellion in the event of failure?

I have noticed that the majority of rulers seem to accrue the 'Tyrant' trait quite quickly, both Lords Paramount and Kings. They get pretty banish-happy.
 

metalinvader665

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Yep, something has to be done about the tyrant trait, because it means the Iron Throne is in a constant state of war with someone, usually a duke, but occasionally a Lord Paramount when the AI gets REALLY stupid (not that randomly arresting vassals for no reason and then releasing them a few days later isn't stupid).

And the Nights Watch is pretty unrealistically filled with nobles. It's hard to see the resemblance to the book Nights Watch when you have Tywin Lannister as Lord Commander and tons of formerly powerful Crownlander and Stormlander lords as rangers, stewards, etc. Not to mention how none of the banished men ever seem to go to the Shadow Tower or Eastwatch. Hell, in my game Bowen Marsh (when he was Lord Commander) revoked the Shadow Tower for zero reason, and became known as "Bowen the Tyrant."

Also, as I asked earlier, will I be able to grant Salladhor Saan land in the next version of the mod?
 

vilPRO

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Hey,
First of all great job guys! I really love this mod!
I espicially like the portaits so is there anyway for me to include the clothes in my unmodded game version? What would I have to do/copy?

On side note; can't wait for the Others to be included :D
 

GenghisCan

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Yep. In my current game, the six year old Lord Paramount of the Vale is a tyrant.
 

von Sachsen

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Te. Kenzo

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Rebellion are common, and finish ever with a status quo, so the same revolter lord after some months revolt again
in the robert rebellion scenario, i started as the mad king, but the war finish after one day with status quo
 

Gantolandon

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It appears that currently if Robert dies, this means an immediate end of the war. It seems to be an unfortunate implication of CK2 CBs, but it spoils the immersion a bit: Eddard Stark and Jon Arryn wouldn't probably leave it as that. Even if they did, the war started with Aerys demanding both Robert and Ned and Jon Arryn refusing. Currently he just lets Lords Paramount of the North and Vale rule in peace, not even trying to change them.
 

Ivashanko

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I don't think Varys is any less susceptible to belief than anyone else. Just because he's shown himself to be a great cynic where it comes the game of thrones proves nothing about his susceptibility to religion. A lot of highly educated and adept politicians from Antiquity to the 1700s appear to have sincerely believed it when a priest claimed they were being shown a witch's black magic or the work of the devil.

I have heard "the author is dead," but it's from a theory of literary criticism that is well over 70 years old (and today isn't very popular except in some high schools), and was meant to applied to a very specific type of work (mainstream literary fiction). GRRM's comments are clearly incredibly important to the mod, as otherwise we'd have to exclude all the CoAs he's described over the years, change the age of majority, disregard history only he's mentioned (the She-Wolves of Winterfell, for instance), etc. etc. The intentional fallacy approach (which is that phrase's fancy name) is clearly poorly designed for fantasy worlds, which are laid out in far greater detail by their author than what makes it onto the page. To disregard GRRM for the mod would be like saying to a Catholic it'd be perfectly alright to disregard the edicts laid out by Popes prior to the current one, because those men are also dead.

I agree with you about the Drowned God. We know that the Red Priestess has had powers for a long time, since she was a girl (it is stated in one of her chapters- she thinks it rather than says it). As for Varys, we will have to agree to disagree- it is a matter of faith (Varsy does not worship the Red God), but rather a retelling of what he heard and what he saw.

Most importantly, however, I regret to tell you that your conceptions of 'the author is dead' are wrong. For a start the very basic idea has been around far longer than seventy years- it goes back centuries, even to Don Quixote, where people wrote sequals without caring what the author thought about them. Chekov and Tolstoy would often have debates, each one telling the other that their interrpitation of their own works was wrong. Galileo's analysis of one of his characters was ignored, and he was thrown in prison because of it (those who tell you that it was because of his stance against the Church ignore that it was a Cardinal who funded his research- a Cardinal who became Pope, and then was insulted by Galileo through his portrayal of his friend in his most famous work).

Intentional fallacy approach is not the same thing as 'the author is dead'. Intentional fallacy approach is the criticism of analysis of an author's life in an effort to try and find out the 'truth' behind a work of literature. I disagree with this approach- a work of literature should not be seperated from its place in history, which is what occurs when people ignore the writer altogether. 'The author is dead' states that an author's analysis of his own work is no more valid or 'right' than mine, yours, or anyone else's as long as the analysis in question is supported by the novels.

Now, I'm not saying that the author isn't able to shape his own work- he can still write sequels after all. I'm just saying that anything outside of what is in the books is extra information that you can accept or deny. He says there is no proof of Gods in his work- that is a valid opinion, but I respectfully disagree.
 

Krazy_Welsh_Lad

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Forgot to mention, in one of my previous games. THE FREYS GOT BANNISHED TO THE WALL!!!!! The whole family was no longer rulers of the crossing :D was so happy, dont know how it happened but when i saw the watch was ruled by frey i was pretty chuffed haha
 

Orinsul

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Forgot to mention, in one of my previous games. THE FREYS GOT BANNISHED TO THE WALL!!!!! The whole family was no longer rulers of the crossing :D was so happy, dont know how it happened but when i saw the watch was ruled by frey i was pretty chuffed haha

Thats pretty common, when a lord loses his land, him and all his courtiers get banished outside of the realm.
In this mod, the Wall is basically the only place outside of the realm, so everyone ends up there.
 

Kelruss

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Intentional fallacy approach is not the same thing as 'the author is dead'. Intentional fallacy approach is the criticism of analysis of an author's life in an effort to try and find out the 'truth' behind a work of literature. I disagree with this approach- a work of literature should not be seperated from its place in history, which is what occurs when people ignore the writer altogether. 'The author is dead' states that an author's analysis of his own work is no more valid or 'right' than mine, yours, or anyone else's as long as the analysis in question is supported by the novels.

Now, I'm not saying that the author isn't able to shape his own work- he can still write sequels after all. I'm just saying that anything outside of what is in the books is extra information that you can accept or deny. He says there is no proof of Gods in his work- that is a valid opinion, but I respectfully disagree.
Except there's a flaw in your argument here: most of what's created in the mod is based on evidence supplied by the author, quite often evidence supplied by direct emails or discussions with GRRM (such as, who's homosexual). The author's intentions are considered final word here, simply because in the construction of this mod, flubbing those details would dramatically shift large parts of the mod; and then you wouldn't have "A Game of Thrones Mod", you'd have "A Mod Inspired by A Game of Thrones". And it wouldn't be the same.

Second, there's no textual evidence that definitively proves the existence of any gods in the books. Visions, prophecies, answered prayers, etc.; these can all be conjecture or self-deception or triggered in various other manners. Just as in the real world, people have visions of saints and angels and Jesus and god, so too in Westeros and its world do people have odd visions. In the real world, we don't necessarily always accept whatever visions people claim to have (though certainly, we occasionally do).

If you go, "but the magic!" well, that's not really definitive evidence. From the text of the books, magic is incredibly strengthened with the appearance of the dragons; which would seem to suggest that Dany is the source of magic, in which case, well, there, you can play as a god by playing as the Targaryens. If there are gods, why did the Old Gods allow their weirwoods to be cut down? Why did the Seven allow Melisandre to burn them? What about the plurality of death-worship in the halls of the Faceless Ones? Who made the Others? There's no more proof of the existence of Gods in A Song of Ice and Fire than there is the real world. It's all faith. Any thoughts or commands or actions or inaction attributed to them is just as much conjecture here as it is in the real world.

And finally, that brings me to the last and probably most important point: modding in the ability to play as gods changes the mod entirely. You're not talking about a Crusader Kings 2 mod. You're talking about a completely different game. It sounds more like the Sims than Crusader Kings. In fact, there are plenty of simulation/god games for you to mod which would more easily lend themselves to that kind of style of play.

If you mod in the existence of gods, and someone decides to play as a regular house, now it becomes completely pointless, when R'Hollor can just immolate your people on will. So a large part of the game: playing as families (indeed, the whole basic mechanic of the game that you are a dynasty) becomes completely foolish.

And if you're really insistent on playing as a god; I have one suggestion for you: cheat.
 

Rozmarzony

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Feb 14, 2012
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If you go, "but the magic!" well, that's not really definitive evidence. From the text of the books, magic is incredibly strengthened with the appearance of the dragons; which would seem to suggest that Dany is the source of magic

Untrue. Magic monsters and magic appears before Dany's Dragons. For example, direwolfs in North, Others invaders, blood magic (Mirri Maz Duur) all before dragons. I think, "something" make magic so strong, that the Dany could have her Dragons. But what? Idk.
Dragons only makes alchemist more powerfull.
 
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