[Mod] A Game of Thrones (Original Super Thread)
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Strange doesnt mean right. If there are Others and Dragons and etc, why shouldnt there stranger monsters or magics in the east?
The Red God is implied to be the product of folk-memories of the long dark, with their 'devil' being an Other and their messiah a hero who fought them, so its reasonable to assume the religion developed from half-forgotten history and stories spreading east from westeros and being interpreted by people without knowledge of the Winters there or the Others, as this ties them into the title plot, the prophecy of the Ice and Fire, the dragons, prince who was promised, winter is coming etc, grand theme. As Melisande's misinterpretation of the prophecy as having to do with her religion is important in the narrative to setting it up early on.
Also their magic is shown to be linked to Dragons the same as everyone else [whereas if they came from a divine source they wouldnt wane in the absence and grow in the presence of Dragons].
That there is power in the people who follow it doesnt mean it is true. The books make it quite clear that you shouldnt see anything as absolutely true, thats the whole point of having a narrative driven by multiple and opposing perspectives over a thrid person empirical, all-seeing single narrator.
If someone interprets something true falsely it does not make the thing they attribute it to true. Legend says a hill in cornwall once was the site of a castle of King Arthurs, that it turns out there was truely a castle there does not mean it must have been the castle of King Arthur. Its equally possible that the faith of R'hollor is based on misunderstanding the same information as the prophecy of the prince who was promised as it is that Daenerys is Azor reborn. And its just as likely that neither is true but both born from human interpretation of the same earlier story.
And anyway, back to my chief point. Does it matter in respect to how the world is to be represented in the mod?
If it was a setting, like some fantasy settings are, where 'gods' come down and actually do stuff, then it'd matter. But as its a setting where the supernatural stays out of politics, is it worth discussing?
The Red God is implied to be the product of folk-memories of the long dark, with their 'devil' being an Other and their messiah a hero who fought them, so its reasonable to assume the religion developed from half-forgotten history and stories spreading east from westeros and being interpreted by people without knowledge of the Winters there or the Others, as this ties them into the title plot, the prophecy of the Ice and Fire, the dragons, prince who was promised, winter is coming etc, grand theme. As Melisande's misinterpretation of the prophecy as having to do with her religion is important in the narrative to setting it up early on.
Also their magic is shown to be linked to Dragons the same as everyone else [whereas if they came from a divine source they wouldnt wane in the absence and grow in the presence of Dragons].
That there is power in the people who follow it doesnt mean it is true. The books make it quite clear that you shouldnt see anything as absolutely true, thats the whole point of having a narrative driven by multiple and opposing perspectives over a thrid person empirical, all-seeing single narrator.
If someone interprets something true falsely it does not make the thing they attribute it to true. Legend says a hill in cornwall once was the site of a castle of King Arthurs, that it turns out there was truely a castle there does not mean it must have been the castle of King Arthur. Its equally possible that the faith of R'hollor is based on misunderstanding the same information as the prophecy of the prince who was promised as it is that Daenerys is Azor reborn. And its just as likely that neither is true but both born from human interpretation of the same earlier story.
And anyway, back to my chief point. Does it matter in respect to how the world is to be represented in the mod?
If it was a setting, like some fantasy settings are, where 'gods' come down and actually do stuff, then it'd matter. But as its a setting where the supernatural stays out of politics, is it worth discussing?
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Thank you. I hope someone will see it to help me.
Sometimes things just dont copy properly, with computers not being infallible, so delete-and-re-installing is always worth a try.
Yes as religion drives politics, why not say gods do the same
In any sense if magic is apart of nature, then couldn't we say nature is benevolent? As Daenerys dreamed that if she placed the dragon eggs into a large fire. They would be born, so we can say gods exist. Humans ascending to the place of gods? As some humans in the book show they have unique powers. Perhaps some found there way into immortality. With that alone should justify the rhllor existed. Old and the new a well.By the way. The Drowned God Can make people survive ahh drowning and they all come back somewhat changed. The uncle of Theon for example who was the funniest guy of the iron island which probably means really funny he became a fanatical priest. Or the court jester that one changed ,too and the Old Gods speak through visions to Bran for example. So not only the God of Light has power just his own way of showing it.
he became a fanatical priest. Or the court jester that one changed ,too and the Old Gods speak through visions to Bran for example. So not only the God of Light has power just his own way of showing it.
By the way. The Drowned God Can make people survive ahh drowning and they all come back somewhat changed. The uncle of Theon for example who was the funniest guy of the iron island which probably means really funny
Yep good way of pointing it out kudos.
Why doesn't the Iron Throne have a CB on independant Kingdoms? I would think that they would, isn't there some way easier to get one than condescending to marrying into them? I won Robert's Rebellion as House Targaryen yet the Vale (although it was like Jon Ayrn's nephew) declared independance as King of Mountain and Vale and yet I can't even declare war against them to regain control?
You didn't really answer my post about the demon in the Spider's fire. If there was indeed a demon (and we have little reason to believe that there wasn't) then we can clearly say that there is something behind the Red Faith. The practising of the Red Priests might be completely wrong, this is true, but that in and of itself is irrelevant- we have more reasons to believe that there is something supernatural about that particular religion than we do when it comes to the others. For all I know the Red God is really a blood thirsty demon.
And the Red Priestess is able to preform magic even when there were no dragons on the earth.
But I agree with you that, as far as the mod goes, it doesn't matter all that much right now. Latter, if all religions get their own events/etc it will matter.
As for the Drowned God, I just thought that they 'drowned' a person and revived him using tactics that we have to day- mouth to mouth, etc. I don't remember anything unusual about it.
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from the book " A Clash of Kings"
"A memory prodded at Theon. in one of his rare curt letters, Lord Balon had written of his youngest brother going down in a storm, and turning holy when he washed up safe on shore. “Uncle Aeron?” he said doubtfully."
...
“Young I was, and vain,” Aeron Greyjoy said, “but the sea washed my follies and my vanities away. That man drowned, nephew. His lungs filled with seawater, and the fish ate the scales off his eyes. When I rose again, I saw clearly.”
So its not some kind of baywatch-like ritual.
(and there are mor examples where drowning changed a person completely)
from the book " A Clash of Kings"
"A memory prodded at Theon. in one of his rare curt letters, Lord Balon had written of his youngest brother going down in a storm, and turning holy when he washed up safe on shore. “Uncle Aeron?” he said doubtfully."
...
“Young I was, and vain,” Aeron Greyjoy said, “but the sea washed my follies and my vanities away. That man drowned, nephew. His lungs filled with seawater, and the fish ate the scales off his eyes. When I rose again, I saw clearly.”
So its not some kind of baywatch-like ritual.
(and there are mor examples where drowning changed a person completely)
I thought that 'brush with death' was just a life changing experience- something that is not particularly uncommon in our world.
Edit: I could easily be wrong about the Drowned God. I don't really remember much about him.
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If I recalll, there's a "Royal Claim on <Kingdom>" option for going to war.
The iron throne should have a permanent CB on any independent kingdom, which I believe the last paradox patch broke. It should be fixed for the next version.
Some odd things I have noticed.
-Two rebellions in two years.
- I had this personal battle event and lost against a man with martial skill 4. My martial skill was 24.
- I fought a battle with my 27000 against 25000 and with far better generals (22-20-18 against 11-16-19) and I lost heavily.
-Two rebellions in two years.
- I had this personal battle event and lost against a man with martial skill 4. My martial skill was 24.
- I fought a battle with my 27000 against 25000 and with far better generals (22-20-18 against 11-16-19) and I lost heavily.
“Young I was, and vain,” Aeron Greyjoy said, “but the sea washed my follies and my vanities away. That man drowned, nephew. His lungs filled with seawater, and the fish ate the scales off his eyes. When I rose again, I saw clearly.”
So its not some kind of baywatch-like ritual.
Meh. I could hear even more overblown hyperbole from someone who was river baptized down in the Appalachians.
You guys are reading into the prose of a world with magic and coming up with gods the same way the peasants and zealots of the books do. Either way, a cut and dry answer on the question doesn't seem in style with the series.
Your comment is pretty rude but if thats your style. Ok. I just qouted the books. A universe created by an authour who has implemented magic and other things. Do you really believe in this universe gods are just something the people have made up to sleep at night. I could also say that if people believe that something is true and that it does exist it then exists in a certain way because people act different because of their believes.
I'm not interested in the way the believers phrase their prayers- I'm interested in the forces that answer them. We have a little information on what gives the followers of the Old Gods power (the Children of the Forest, their trees, the 'being born with special powers' etc), but not much on the Red Faith. I admit I think it's likely that R'hollor is actually some sort of blood thirsty demon rather than a protective God, but that still means there are some sort of supernatural forces in the world.
As I said before it doesn't really affect the mod.
1) Rebellions are really common.
2) I think they stated earlier that personal battles are dependent on traits, not martial score. (ex. Strong, Tall, etc.) Although, I think martial score should play a part myself.
3) Terrain might have played a big part in that. Were you attacking?
As to the frequency of rebellions, half the problem (aside from the plot for the Iron Throne) is the fact that the King can revoke titles from vassals who have wronged him. So you end up with the Iron Throne holding territories across Westeros, resented by each of their vassals. I can't figure out why new rulers seem to do this, though. Perhaps its because the "buy loyalty" plot is an imprisonable offence, which in turn leads to revoked titles and increased tyranny upon a successful arrest, and a rapidly growing rebellion in the event of failure?
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