How many soldiers, and farmers/workers, are needed for province , and what level of maobilization pool is manageable, in order to ensure that mobilization never ever touches precious craftsmen and clerks ?
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Irioth said:
mobilization takes from farmer and labourer POPs first, so a very rough guild would be to see how many POPs you can have in your mob pool vs how many actually exist, and then base that as a percent, compare that to total % of farmer and labourer pops IN STATES you have in your nation.
So for ex if you have a 12 unit mob pool, and it says you can have up to 18, that means you are 66% full, if you have less than 66% of your state populations as farmers and labourers, then the game will also begin to convert craftsmen
so basically unless you stay majority non-industrial, you are going to get craftsmen and clerk pops removed when you mobilize, since the percent of your total national pop that is farmer/labourer will likely be too small to cover all the units in your mob pool.
Hmm, what you says confirms my initial impression, that mobilization is really much worse of an hurdle on a developed economy than a regular amry, it is way beterr to build an all-regulr army and if necessary expand the soldier POPs as needed, and set the mobilization pool at 0.
Really, the fact that the game de-evolves mobilized POPs to farmers/laborers is a nasty bug IMO.
Next issue becomes, how many soldier POPs are necessary to substitute the mobilization pool to all effects and ends ??
Really, the fact that the game de-evolves mobilized POPs to farmers/laborers is a nasty bug IMO.
Next issue becomes, how many soldier POPs are necessary to substitute the mobilization pool to all effects and ends ??
Irioth said:
Why not build regular armed forces and have large mobilisation pool? It is nice deterrent even if you never mobilise.
Irioth said:
It's only worse if you plan on taking an aggresive approach to your fellow neighbors in the late game period. One of course does not have to do this at all to win in Victoria, since economic score is weighted equally as military score in the final calculations. A peaceful economic juggernaut with a large mob pool to deter potential aggression can have the best of both scores.
Disagree with you on post-mobilization. Look at the experience of soldiers demobilized after WWI. They did not simply walk back into the jobs they left in '14-'18, a large precent of them remained unemployed for well over a year after demobilization while others had to relearn skills lost after serving in the fronts for 1-4 years.
this economic dislocation caused by demobilization is captured perfectly by the game model having all the POPs go back to being farmers/labourers.
As for substituting, each mob pool increase adds 4 units, so you need to produce 40 manpower, that is 40K soldier POPs, to replace each potential expansion of your reserves. Since that takes 40K in pops (160K raw population) out of productive service to your economy, in the end depending on having a huge military will reduce the potential economic growth you can have in your nation. And since its economic wealth that allows one to keep a powerful army supplied for the long term should war break out, I'd maintain its better to build up the economic potential of the nation first, so that if you do call upon your reserves, you still have the infrastructure in place in terms of factories to keep essential industries running to keep your troops in the field (unless of course you are expanding your mob pool to the maximum and calling every able bodied person up when you mobilize, which would indeed cause a crash of your economy, but isn't really necessary to have, IMHO.)
OHgamer said:
Yeah, but why one should give up the gratification of seeing glorious Wehrmacht or U.S. Army burn down Paris and Moscow down in WWI ?
OHgamer said:
It wouldn't be a bug IF the game would have a function (and a clickable option) to allow automatic POP conversions when there are open factory slots, maybe delayed in effect on demobilized POPs (say a year or two), quite possibly one that does not work as optimally as manual conversion, but one nonetheless, like POP splitting.
Being unemployed for a while post-mobilization is fine, but completely losing your previous job skills is stupid and utterly ahistorical IMO. In the WWI timeline, technological advancement was not so quick that staying in the army 1-4 years seriously wrecked your job skills. It's not like they got a Windows release every two years... All that post-war unemployement came from economic disruption. This is why I insist, permanent demobilization de-evolution of POPs is a nasty bug of the game.
Re-evolution is only a few mouse clicks. Money and goods used in it represent that disruption pretty well.Irioth said:
That said, why won't you have both army and reserve? Mobilization pool adds the military score and costs nothing to maintain. And reserves are not too good for planned agressive wars anyway: they suffer more atrittion in foreign lands.
NikkTheTrick said:
I don't mind the expense. I do mind a lot the bean-counter annoyance of doing it by hand *every bloody time, province by province*. Arrrggghh.
OHgamer said:
I do not understand you, OHGamer.
Why does 40K soldier pops take 160K "raw" population?
What is "raw" population? Why the factor x4?
notger.heinz said:
its my understanding that each POP is a male worker and they have a corresponding female, boy and girl attached to them making the population 4 times the amount of POPS
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.
That is interesting, especially since families in these days weren't similar to modern families. It was more like this: Zero to four old people, the couple, then zero to ten children, with the father and maybe the mother working for pay.
Anyway, it is an abstraction I can live with.
To the devs: Great game. Rome should have become like this game.
That is interesting, especially since families in these days weren't similar to modern families. It was more like this: Zero to four old people, the couple, then zero to ten children, with the father and maybe the mother working for pay.
Anyway, it is an abstraction I can live with.
To the devs: Great game. Rome should have become like this game.