Mobilisasstion

[pizza de oveja]

Hi there fellow vic addicts...
I was just reading the excellent vic manual by Memnon and just came to the section that talks about the mobilization. The manual is apparently about vic 1.3.
Do that still works that way in vainilla Revolutions??? I mean the part of all your pop's being mobilized getting downgraded to farmers and labourers when they are de-mobilized?
If thats so...
woh! its the policy that Rossevelt intendend for germany applied to the winnin side!
Doesnt anyone think that having your economy return to a preindustrial state was a bit to harsh and uncalled for and totally unrealistic?¿

 

[unmerged(70421)]

i am pretty sure that is no longer the case, tho i have been known to be wrong

 

[jonti-h]

I haven't heard that it has changed, but I may be wrong. It dies seem too harsh for me t oo - but perhaps the game cannot handle the changes in POP type?

 

[OHgamer]

Soldier POPs created by mobilization are made into farmer/labourer POPs upon demobilization at the end of their being mobilized.

For a good reason, it is entirely possible that during the course of the war, especially a long war, many of the crafts and clerk POPs that may be mobilized at the start of the war have been replaced with other POPs, so if you were to revert the POPs back to their original use, there would be way too many craftsmen/clerk POPs for the nation, resulting in major unemployment problems.

And while a human player could probably deal with that, the AI would not be nearly as capable, and the result would be massive problems for the AI nations on demobilization.

Thus it makes most sense to convert all mobilized POPs to farmer/labourer POPs at the end of a war. They'll be productive for the nation in those roles in the short term while the economic cost of demobilization will be reflected in the possible need to re-convert some of the POPs to other uses again. Especially for the AI, this is a much more workable proposition for it to handle.

 

[pizza de oveja]

Soldier POPs created by mobilization are made into farmer/labourer POPs upon demobilization at the end of their being mobilized.

For a good reason, it is entirely possible that during the course of the war, especially a long war,[...].

Excellent reply, as usual. Thx
It's sad things like that need to be done. The problem with unemployment would be to me a much more realistic and prefered solution(to me at least) but if that would really cripple the AI then I have to admit its clearly a better solution...

As it is now...I dont think I would mobilize ever short of the Ai countris having 100+ divs than me.

So If you say mobilize 20 divs, twenty pops will disapear from their work? is that how it works?

 

[jonti-h]

IIRC it takes farmers/labourers and unemployedpops before it takes clerks and craftsmen.

 

[unmerged(38835)]

Actually if you see it from the realism view it is not that far off.
After a long and bloody war it will take time and investment to rebuild your economy properly.

This is especially true if the previous poster, jonti-h is right and the specialists are drafted only in the most brutal wars.

Not sure if it working like this, i read about it as well, but i have not tested it.

 

[unmerged(38835)]

So If you say mobilize 20 divs, twenty pops will disapear from their work? is that how it works?

As far as my understanding goes, the manpower pool needed for mobilisation and according reeinforcement "drafts" from pops, unemployed/labourers/farmers and once they are depleted too much from clerks and craftsmen.
At least thats how i understand the vicky article about it.

 

[pizza de oveja]

Actually if you see it from the realism view it is not that far off.
After a long and bloody war it will take time and investment to rebuild your economy properly.

This is especially true if the previous poster, jonti-h is right and the specialists are drafted only in the most brutal wars.

Not sure if it working like this, i read about it as well, but i have not tested it.

Aint this the short of thing extremelly important that should be mentioned on the manual that never gets mentioned in paradox games when things like "the defense allows you to control the expenditure of your country on defense" or "here you can see how much divisions you have on reserve" kind of things ocuppies page after page???

Thx the god of games for this forum when you can suck on the good ol tit of wisdom of moderators...

 

[Gwalcmai]

This is especially true if the previous poster, jonti-h is right and the specialists are drafted only in the most brutal wars.

You always mobilize your entire pool. There is not partial mobilization for small wars. And the game will take all the pops it needs to get the manpower for the divisions you told it to create for you.

What jonti-h was saying is that, when picking the pops to turn into soldiers, the game will first go with the unemployed, then RGO workers, and only if you don't have enough of those two types to fill your manpower needs will it start taking industrial workers to turn into soldiers.

But if your mob pool is too large for the unemployed and RGO pops you have, it will always take industrial workers, regardless of the size of the war you mobilized for.

So... don't make your mob pool too large if you're worried about this.

I must play in a very ineffective manner, or something, I can't remember the game allowing me to make a mob pool large enough to even mobilize more than one region's worth of farmers... Maybe I keep too many of my people in the fields.

 

[Gwalcmai]

So If you say mobilize 20 divs, twenty pops will disapear from their work? is that how it works?

I think it takes 10k population for every division you mobilize. If your mob pool is 20 divisions, it might take, for instance, 4 50k pops. I can't remember if the calculation adds up the people in different pops, though.

 

[|AXiN|]

How does pop culture and its status within your state affect this? If I have a 20k unemployed Arab pop as ITA, are they mustered with the unemployed?

 

[Meanmanturbo]

How does pop culture and its status within your state affect this? If I have a 20k unemployed Arab pop as ITA, are they mustered with the unemployed?

I think only national (accepted culture) POPs are mobilized actualy. Dont know what happens with full citizenship though.

 

[jonti-h]

I think only national (accepted culture) POPs are mobilized actualy. Dont know what happens with full citizenship though.

I think you are right - this would presumably be to stop the annexing China and spamming infantry exploit.

 

[unmerged(48056)]

Which is why Mobilization is a horrribbbleee idea. And sure enough it was in real life, mobilization did it's fair share in wrecking the male populations of Europe during the Seven Year Wars and the Great War.


In VIP, Reserves have less firepower and reliability (sometimes as low as 5!). Meaning a huge stack of reserves on enemy territory will be lost due to attrition and other factors (I.E. chasing after the local women, running back home after looting precious arts... Other kinds of activity which were documented in the American Civil War and the Napoleonic)


I keep my mobilization pool large because it increases the war score and I mobilize the reserves when I need additional manpower. And I certainty never use them on assault or offense, I keep them in the reserve pool and deploy them if the A.I. launches amphibious invasions

 

[|AXiN|]

I don't think I've actually used mobilisation for a few years now, but I always try to keep my pool as large as possible for the military score.

 

[pizza de oveja]

Woh!
There are a lot new questions without an answer I hadn't even think about.
I guess the basic idea I had at the start continues to be valid (even more!)
Only mobilize when the enemy is taking pictures in the reichtag...
anyways thx a lot

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Woh!
There are a lot new questions without an answer I hadn't even think about.
I guess the basic idea I had at the start continues to be valid (even more!)
Only mobilize when the enemy is taking pictures in the reichtag...
anyways thx a lot

Bah!, In my current Sweden game my population is almost entierly industrialised and I have fought five succesfull agressive wars against Russia without allies (cept for Crimea ofc) using my full mob-pool every time. I also find the manpower boost useful for replenishing my large sranding army of guards and art (two guard and one art in every corps) which is at minimum strength in peactime (the normal manpower in sometimes not enough). I find it funny that Russia lets me mobilize and organize my attack time after time again, but hey, it the AI (I'm playing VIP by the way).

 

[pizza de oveja]

Sorry for polluting my own post but does anyone have the same problem I always have in wars in this game?
I though it was a problem i had with japan...but
In my current game with prussia, I am the most literate country of all, and I've been researching almost any land military tech that did become available, even trade for some...
But then all armies of great powers have 80+ more morale while my armies have like 40.
As I keep researching land techs as quickly as I can and I have the army funding at max, why does the ai always has that huge morale advantage???

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Sorry for polluting my own post but does anyone have the same problem I always have in wars in this game?
I though it was a problem i had with japan...but
In my current game with prussia, I am the most literate country of all, and I've been researching almost any land military tech that did become available, even trade for some...
But then all armies of great powers have 80+ more morale while my armies have like 40.
As I keep researching land techs as quickly as I can and I have the army funding at max, why does the ai always has that huge morale advantage???

The Jomnian idea, wich alot of AI choose fore some reason, gives a very large initial boost to morale comparing to Clauswitzian theory. Clauswitzian gives much more org, and improves more over time then Jomnian. Clauswitzian I belive is considerd much better then Jomnian. And Clauswitz is just so much then some random, Swiz dude