Mobile Warfare VS. Superior Fire Power

[Tacticus101]

One of the things that a lot of people miss in Grand Battle Plan is that it gives the highest Army Wide Breakthrough in the game, even without planning. That means they have the best breakthrough for everything other than proper tank divisions, which I think a lot of people underestimate.

 

[P3D]

One of the things that a lot of people miss in Grand Battle Plan is that it gives the highest Army Wide Breakthrough in the game, even without planning. That means they have the best breakthrough for everything other than proper tank divisions, which I think a lot of people underestimate.

Anything besides Tanks gives negligible breakthrough, and negligible*1.2 is still negligible. The only two exceptions are Mechanized (overpriced) and Japan vs China (40-wide INF+Art has enough BT to defend against the Chinese SA).

 

[BaddoSpirito]

All doctrines have uses for different nations. Mobile warfare is by far the best doctrine if you are going mainly tanks so this is what you almost always get with Germany and usually with Soviet.

Superior firepower is good for a variety of situations. It gives good defense and good SA so it is an all-around good doctrine for infantry and maybe slower and defensive tank play like holding a landing with heavy tanks for example. SF also allows things like 10-width marines or paratroopers with good amount of SA from support.

Grand battleplan is good for mostly static and narrow fronts and port/coast defense so it can be good for France and Japan. Maybe Italy depending on team strategy.

Mass assault is good if you lack manpower and will mainly be playing defensive so countries like Raj and UK are good for mass assault.

 

[Tacticus101]

Anything besides Tanks gives negligible breakthrough, and negligible*1.2 is still negligible. The only two exceptions are Mechanized (overpriced) and Japan vs China (40-wide INF+Art has enough BT to defend against the Chinese SA).

True, but it also applies to tanks, so it is a small bonus on top of that. Infantry might have very low breakthrough, but it is not completely negligible, certainly not if you build better infantry equipment. It adds up and 20% more does make a difference.

 

[melkor88]

I love going mobile, mainly as I like to put lots of resources into tanks, no matter who I play as.

 

[Surimi]

Anything besides Tanks gives negligible breakthrough, and negligible*1.2 is still negligible.

I don't know.. obviously tanks are the best but I wouldn't call the breakthrough on rocket artillery/trucks negligible, for example.

I'm a big fan of rocket trucks generally though so maybe I'm biased.

 

[P3D]

I don't know.. obviously tanks are the best but I wouldn't call the breakthrough on rocket artillery/trucks negligible, for example.

I'm a big fan of rocket trucks generally though so maybe I'm biased.

Well, all the games I play, if I spend the production to make a unit mobile, I'd rather spend some more to get proper tanks with hardness and armor that won't get pierced by SpAA. I cannot exploit mobility if the unit cannot break through the frontline.

 

[Tacticus101]

Well, all the games I play, if I spend the production to make a unit mobile, I'd rather spend some more to get proper tanks with hardness and armor that won't get pierced by SpAA. I cannot exploit mobility if the unit cannot break through the frontline.

Well, I mean, motorised units are far cheaper. If you want large numbers of fast divisions motorised work very well, and light tanks are often too vulnerable to add. Unless you are Germany, you cant get Medium or Heavy tanks to go at the same speed as motorised units either.

 

[ocelot64]

What are the benifits for each considering in most cases it depends on which doctrine better fits your circumstance, however what are the strong points over each other?

I played as Canada using Grand Battle (Assault) and Mobile Warfare (Mobile Infantry+Modern Blitzkrieg) in separate scenarios. I used Superior Firepower, too. I find Mobile Warfare pretty good, if you plan to use mobile infantry (motorised and mechanised). It might be tempting to use the desperate defence tree to get 5% extra manpower for a country with good industry and low manpower pool (like Canada). Mobile warfare is optimised for offensive warfare, not so much for defensive. I find the bonus to speed nice to have, but you can also overrun enemy infantry division even with their default speed.

Superior Firepower is more suitable for use with leg infantry. It'S famous for its great bonus to soft attack, plus additional organisation to support units.
I like both doctrines. You need to know which strategy you want to employ and choose your doctrine accordingly.

 

[War Emblem]

Considering all the well thought out opinions in this thread it seems HOI4 has done a good job with all the doctrines and players use the ones which suit their play style. I enjoyed the in depth analysis of France. I have not yet played France might try them next with a mobile infantry focus.

 

[Triton1037]

Agreed I think that it's wonderful that a game can be so well designed that it can spur debate over what mechanic to do. It seems of little importance right now as most games are this complicated, but looking at the past where "pong" was groundbreaking it is amazing to see how far we've come in such a short time.

 

[Triton1037]

I haven't given my opinion on this subject because I was curious to see what people were saying, and personally I prefer superior firepower because I often find myself playing defensive, with a nation with low manpower. (I like playing minor nations).

 

[Meglok]

Mobile warfare is all about tanks. Germany due to it's ministers is well suited for this doctrine.

Superior firepower is for gun bunnies and for nations that focus on infantry with heavy gun/rocket battalions or support. Almost specifically written for the US. With the new production rules Japan can also really benefit from SF right side. It can't afford a lot of artillery or AT because of resources but support or rockets can be done.

 

[The-False-Being26]

The plus 25% attack at night on grand battle plan seems like it would be rather powerful. After all about half of all battles are fought at night.

 

[seattle]

The plus 25% attack at night on grand battle plan seems like it would be rather powerful. After all about half of all battles are fought at night.

While true that doesn't mean that half of the impact of a battle is calculated at night. The night fighting makes only for a fraction of the total result. Improving a handful by 25% still only makes it a handful * 1.25.

 

[Tacticus101]

While true that doesn't mean that half of the impact of a battle is calculated at night. The night fighting makes only for a fraction of the total result. Improving a handful by 25% still only makes it a handful * 1.25.

Well, it is only a fraction of the total because the 50% night fighting penalty to attack really lowers the damage you do at night. The bonus from grand battleplan actually means you can do some significant damage whilst invading at night, and makes it much more significant.

It is more than just multiplying a small fraction by 1.25.

 

[P3D]

Assuming 8 hours nighttime, "Infiltration Assault" increases your overall damage by 6-18%, depending on the Attack/Defense ratios.
Similarly, the infantry NV equipment tech has a 2-6% effect.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Assuming 8 hours nighttime

But literally why?

 

[Alex_brunius]

Assuming 8 hours nighttime, "Infiltration Assault" increases your overall damage by 6-18%, depending on the Attack/Defense ratios.
Similarly, the infantry NV equipment tech has a 2-6% effect.

If we assume 8 hours night we can divide the day in 3, and night baseline is 50% which means the baseline will be 2.5 full efficiency 8 hour passes per day. 2.75 (+25% at night ) is a base improvement over 2.5 by exactly 10% (2.75/2.5).

So when I do the math I get it to be an averaged 10% increase of your overall attack values.

If night time instead is assumed to be 12 hours then we get 1.75/1.5 = +16.7% increase

 

[Meglok]

Assuming 8 hours nighttime, "Infiltration Assault" increases your overall damage by 6-18%, depending on the Attack/Defense ratios.
Similarly, the infantry NV equipment tech has a 2-6% effect.

But literally why?

Well, we know the air system breaks the day into a night cycle lasting 8 hours. One can guess the same system is used across game play.