Mixing WSS and Motorised

[Phili]

In a January 36 start Germany has three Panzer divisions of; 2LArm + Mot + Eng and a WSS division of 3WSS.
Which with some reorganizing and new builds I can turn into 3 Panzer Divisions of ; LArm + 2 Mot + Eng.
And 3 WSS Divisions of; LArm + 2 WSS + AC.

I organize these, one of each, into three Panzerkommand Corps which gives me the start of a PanzerArmy

I'm wondering if it would be better to have, 1Mot + 1WSS in each division instead of 2Mot or 2WSS.

My original decision was based on WSS having higher org than Motor which compensates for having an AC instead of Engineers and their defensive bonuses: but have I got that wrong?

 

[Kovax]

There are a lot of factors that come into play: the slightly higher hardness of the ACs, the terrain penalty reductions for the ENG, increased Suppression for the WSS, and slightly different offensive and defensive stats, but overall the two divisions aren't that drastically different. I guess the question is, are you trying to make them into nearly identical functional blocks, or are you trying to specialize them for different purposes? Personally, I don't see them as substantially different, and would use them more or less interchangeably, unless some situation happened to call for the one's stronger points.

 

[Animum24]

There basically is no wrong in HOI3. You can combine brigades in any way as long as you got some front width going.
I treat my SS as normal motorised or mechanised divisions or use them to combine them with tanks. Just as you do.

You could try your idea but I honestly think that there will be virtually no difference in performance.

Additionally I don't like AC as I see engineers as essentials for my mobile divisions and so I would have to research an extra 2 techs for that, which I normally don't have the LS capacity for.

 

[Kovax]

Personally, I use Engineers primarily in Infantry divisions (one per Corps), for dealing with fortifications, cities, rivers, and heavy woods. I add AC to some of my fast exploitation divisions (LARM or MOT), where the speed bonus is far more important than the modest amount of firepower that either AC or ENG will add. I may (or may not) add ENG to one ARM division per Corps, again for its enhanced river-crossing capabilities and reduced terrain penalties, at the cost of a division slot which could be used for another MOT for far more raw firepower and durability while in the open plains.

As said, there is no "wrong" in HOI3; go with whatever works for you.

 

[Phili]

I guess the question is, are you trying to make them into nearly identical functional blocks, or are you trying to specialize them for different purposes? Personally, I don't see them as substantially different, and would use them more or less interchangeably, unless some situation happened to call for the one's stronger points.

I was going for specialization. The Panzer Division with its Engineer brigade was for river crossing and the SS Division with its AC was for speed and Urban assault. But the differences between them are so small I wonder if other factors like terrain and division leaders are a bigger influence. If they are then a standard mix of 1Mot + 1WSS would be better.
I do wonder what other players do with those opening Panzer Divisions and what is the best use of WSS?

The LArm and SS Divisions are allocated to 2 or 3 Panzerkommando Corps with some Motor Divisions of 3Motor + 1AC. They are used for exploitation.
MArm divisions are allocated to a Panzerkorps and the Motor divisions with them have more than just AC's.

 

[Animum24]

I do wonder what other players do with those opening Panzer Divisions and what is the best use of WSS?

Normally I take one LArm brigade out from every division and train 3 more mot+eng to go with them. Then I wait for the SpArt Brigade and add them to it. And I also upgrade them to medium armour. I usually don't use LArm as I think that MArm is fast enough with 8kmh.
WSS I use as Mot or Mech Inf. TDs, SpArt or Eng go with them. Simple and efficient.

 

[Kovax]

LARM is useful against units with no AT, but the AI for most major powers typically adds AT to a lot of divisions, making them "situational", unless you're using them against minor countries. I tend to upgrade any starting LARM to ARM somewhere along the line, but it's not a priority; they're "useful" as is, but ARM is MORE useful to me. My ARM divisions are generally followed by MOT divisions (with SPART when available), so I've got staying power to back up the initial armor punch. Adding AC to most of those divisions speeds up the advance in the provinces where armor SHOULD be operating, at the expense of foregoing ENG to enhance progress in provinces where ARM SHOULDN'T be attacking in the first place.

Go with whatever works for you; I find it far less important to tweak the last bit of performance out of a unit than to utilize its existing capabilities well. In my opinion, there is no "perfect" unit to use across the board. Personally, I'd probably put the WSS brigades with the harder hitting divisions, and put the AC with the faster but less powerful exploitation divisions, making each more specialized. In a couple of GER games, I left the WSS in Berlin to do what they were originally organized to do: protect "whatsisface" with the funny moustache, or else used them to suppress revolts in foreign capitals under GER occupation. It's not like you need them on the front lines against the AI.

 

[Phili]

Thank you for all the replies.
In my current game I've decided to replace one motor brigade in a division that would normally have motor, with a WSS when its available. Then add "SS" to the Division name.

 

[Henryii2]

I usually mix two of them with 1x ARM and 2x SPART (or 1x SPART if I haven't researched superior firepower), using them as elite Panzer divisions.

 

[Phili]

Thank you for all the replies.
In my current game I've decided to replace one motor brigade in a division that would normally have motor, with a WSS when its available. Then add "SS" to the Division name.

I stopped this game early it wasn't working the way I wanted.

I usually mix two of them with 1x ARM and 2x SPART (or 1x SPART if I haven't researched superior firepower), using them as elite Panzer divisions.

This is close to my original division of LARM + 2WSS + 1AC which I used in the belief that WSS had a +1 to speed as mentioned in an old thread only I can't find any evidence of it in my games. Maybe I need a specific mod for that +1 speed.

In my latest game I'm going for a Division of 1WSS + 1AC for its suppression value, partisan hunting and attracting fuel to airfields/ports. Normally I use 1CAV + 1AC for this so a mix of WSS Divisions and Garrisons on the important provinces and CAV Divisions on the less important areas might work.

 

[Big Nev]

I stopped this game early it wasn't working the way I wanted.



This is close to my original division of LARM + 2WSS + 1AC which I used in the belief that WSS had a +1 to speed as mentioned in an old thread only I can't find any evidence of it in my games. Maybe I need a specific mod for that +1 speed.

In my latest game I'm going for a Division of 1WSS + 1AC for its suppression value, partisan hunting and attracting fuel to airfields/ports. Normally I use 1CAV + 1AC for this so a mix of WSS Divisions and Garrisons on the important provinces and CAV Divisions on the less important areas might work.

+1 movement rate?

I found THIS in the WSS file in the UNits folder: "maximum_speed = 8.00 #Now are MOT, we sold out.

I can only assume the comment left in there is a reference left by the Dev's to a possibility of WSS being implemented as Mech instead of Mot in TFH, or maybe they were Mech in an earlier version. I don't have any other idea why WSS would be faster than any other Mot unit.

 

[Nick U]

I too was under the impression that WSS was faster than MOT, but can't find any proof to that claim now.

But going back to the original question, I use my WSS in one of two ways:

1. Single WSS paired with single AC brigade and used in rear areas as partisan suppression units. Their in built suppression value reduces the likelihood or a nearby revolt, but if it does happen they can quickly move several hexs (without strategic movement) and destroy the revolt easily. Typically one such pairing can effective cover an area of about 7 hexes radius. In addition they act as a supply and fuel pull so I base them on an airfield and then can quickly rush paratroopers in to hit revolt targets further afield with only the base 24 hour delay in their deployment. Generally much cheaper than having a patchwork pattern of Militia/Garrison divisions every 2 or 3 hexes.

2. Two WSS paired with LARM and AC. The total weight of this division is just 40 and can be lifted by a single Transport Ship. These units are absolutely lethal against Infantry only divisions found in the likes of Africa, India and Asia and can be easily ferried around to capture key coastal ports and provinces. When the 5th slot becomes available you can add ENG or SPART to make a weight of 48 and by then you should have Landing Craft or Assault Ships available.

 

[EllisDee]

I thought WSS had the same upgrade path as MEC, making them faster than MOT.

I use WSS the same as i use MEC. SPART, 2 WSS, LARM or ARM, and then an ENG or something to round it off. They have unique models which is nice, but they're also Waffen SS, so it's a bit icky to use them...the MEC models Germany has are cool anyway.