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wraithstalke

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I dunno, if you can afford the manpower and you have a large army, counter intuitively it would be a good mission.

You complete it, disband troops and re-recruit them. It only takes (assuming no other discounts to costs, further discount will make it pay off faster) what, 150 years or so to pay itself off?
 
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ringhloth

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I realize that, but it still feels like it would have been much more useful before finishing the mission, thus it seems frustrating. Giving the mission a land maintenance bonus instead would make it feel better to me, even if it were the same magnitude and thus usually worse. By the way, many players are potentially not aware that this connection exists (those that don't read the forums or the wiki).

There are even more egregious examples (always in my opinion, of course), like converting a province providing a missionary power bonus. Sure, you can often convert more provinces after that, but there are also cases where you get the mission when you can't convert the province in the first place due to low missionary power.

I guess I like the way the conquest missions work, so would like more missions that work this way: they give you something immediately that helps you achieving the mission, then give you another bonus when finishing. Oh, and while I'm thinking of conquest missions and perhaps have your attention, would it be possible for them to provide claims for more than 15 years? Playing Ottos, it's pretty much impossible to conquer the Levant or Egypt in 15 years, so you need to cancel and restart the mission at least once.
If you don't need the benefit, don't take the mission? Not everything has to always be useful. Situational benefits are the best benefits.
 
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Styliaan

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If you don't need the benefit, don't take the mission? Not everything has to always be useful. Situational benefits are the best benefits.
The main issue i find is having a mission list nearly always consisting of things that serve no purpose.
Not sure whether to take one and remove it to try to get a reroll(which apparently rarely works) or just wait for a change.
 

ForzaA

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You complete it, disband troops and re-recruit them. It only takes (assuming no other discounts to costs, further discount will make it pay off faster) what, 150 years or so to pay itself off?
What do you think you are gaining by disbanding troops and recruiting them anew?

Maintenance cost of a unit is equal to a percentage of the recruitment cost that *currently* applies to recruiting that unit. Disbanding a unit and building a new one with discounts doesn't make the maintenance any cheaper.
 

MAHak

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What about this one, "Prove legitimacy". Get your legitimacy up to a 100, then receive the reward of +1 yearly legitimacy, kinda weird.
I guess it lets you get away easier with taken some legitimacy hits through RM's and events.
 
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Trin Tragula

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What about this one, "Prove legitimacy". Get your legitimacy up to a 100, then receive the reward of +1 yearly legitimacy

There's as far as I know no such mission/reward combo in the game.
The one I think your thinking of gives diprep as well as 0.5 legitimacy. It may have been changed between 1.13 and 1.12 though.

It's also a ruler modifier so it may last a while.
 
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alpaca

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Ohh so you're saing that the effect of lowered recruitment cost on maintenance cost is not retrospective? That is even more confusing

This really needs to be clarified a lot!

I mean if the effect is not retrospective the mission is indeed very useless and the comment made by Trin Tragula makes little sense.
To clarify, maintenance is based on your current global recruitment cost modifiers. Local modifiers don't matter, as far as I know (I tested this in-game with ships some time ago, but I'm reasonably sure it applies to land units, too). So the mission provides a -10% recruitment cost, which also provides -10% on your maintenance. So yes, the mission unlocks a pretty big reward.
 

wraithstalke

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What do you think you are gaining by disbanding troops and recruiting them anew?

Maintenance cost of a unit is equal to a percentage of the recruitment cost that *currently* applies to recruiting that unit. Disbanding a unit and building a new one with discounts doesn't make the maintenance any cheaper.

My apologies, I was under the assumption that it used cost at recruitment, after observing (prior to the building change in common sense) that some of my infantry units had different maintenance costs to each other.
 

Morwys

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This has been tweaked in the Beta. It now gives +1 Production, in addition to the 15% discount. Cool. :)

Nice!

Playing Ottos, it's pretty much impossible to conquer the Levant or Egypt in 15 years, so you need to cancel and restart the mission at least once.

Since the mission is supposed to be a 'get core in a lot of places quickly' type of mission, I second that. It should either give permanent (on longer lived) claims or be divided into "Conquer Syria" and "Conquer the Levant" missions.
 

Mauer

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All non fabricated claims over a large area should last longer than 25 years - forming a cultural union, historic events, historic missions, etc.
 

Styliaan

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Nice!



Since the mission is supposed to be a 'get core in a lot of places quickly' type of mission, I second that. It should either give permanent (on longer lived) claims or be divided into "Conquer Syria" and "Conquer the Levant" missions.
Dont take the mission till it is a one war completion. Now whether there is things you can do to stop this mission appearing, i dont know. But i didnt get the mission(or had one up already) until id already conquered a lot of that area. When it did appear, i noticed it only needed 1 territory. Easy choice to take it for the bonus it was going to give.
That Levant one is quite easy if you release Syria as a vassl and know which territories to take in the first war, for me, it just happened to be luck that i didnt do something to totally remove the missions chance to appear.

But other then uncommon situations they do seem a bit over the top, especially with Truce timers lasting as long as they do when you need to take large peace deals, doing part of the mission before accepting it, then hoping the mission reappears in the time you want it isnt reliable, especially if there are ways to invalidate the missions chances to appear by taking too much, or a certain territory that is needed for the mission to have a chance to appear when the prerequisites arent listed.
 

alpaca

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Dont take the mission till it is a one war completion. Now whether there is things you can do to stop this mission appearing, i dont know. But i didnt get the mission(or had one up already) until id already conquered a lot of that area. When it did appear, i noticed it only needed 1 territory. Easy choice to take it for the bonus it was going to give.
That Levant one is quite easy if you release Syria as a vassl and know which territories to take in the first war, for me, it just happened to be luck that i didnt do something to totally remove the missions chance to appear.

But other then uncommon situations they do seem a bit over the top, especially with Truce timers lasting as long as they do when you need to take large peace deals, doing part of the mission before accepting it, then hoping the mission reappears in the time you want it isnt reliable, especially if there are ways to invalidate the missions chances to appear by taking too much, or a certain territory that is needed for the mission to have a chance to appear when the prerequisites arent listed.
The free claims save you a lot of aggressive expansion, so it's certainly correct to take the mission, wage a war, cancel it, take another mission, finish or cancel that, rinse and repeat when the truce is over. This would still be the case even if the claims stayed, but at least it would make it possible to finish the mission in one go if you're role-playing.
 

Styliaan

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The free claims save you a lot of aggressive expansion, so it's certainly correct to take the mission, wage a war, cancel it, take another mission, finish or cancel that, rinse and repeat when the truce is over. This would still be the case even if the claims stayed, but at least it would make it possible to finish the mission in one go if you're role-playing.
In certain areas yea, never had a coalition against from taking out Mamluks in 2 wars + surrounding areas. Levant one is 1 i just repeated the same way to easy mode it, AE isnt an issue there.
Havent done too many of them types, so not sure where the other ones are located. But sounds like theyre useful for the Claims alone, whether you get them all in the alotted time or not is just a bonus for me.
Finishing them missions the way theyre intended doesnt seem to make much sense with AE, time alotted to complete etc.
 

grisamentum

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What do you think you are gaining by disbanding troops and recruiting them anew?

Maintenance cost of a unit is equal to a percentage of the recruitment cost that *currently* applies to recruiting that unit. Disbanding a unit and building a new one with discounts doesn't make the maintenance any cheaper.

Is that correct, or is that a recent change? I recall that I used to think that maintenance was only calculated as the cost you paid to recruit the unit and didn't update if new recruitment costs went down.
 

deckhand

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The free claims save you a lot of aggressive expansion, so it's certainly correct to take the mission, wage a war, cancel it, take another mission, finish or cancel that, rinse and repeat when the truce is over.
I don't think you have to cancel it. Even when you fail the mission (didn't capture all of Levant in first (or second) war), it may become available again later.

Is that correct, or is that a recent change? I recall that I used to think that maintenance was only calculated as the cost you paid to recruit the unit and didn't update if new recruitment costs went down.
I'm sure it has always been this way. It would be much more complicated to have a unique maintenance cost tied to each unit rather than using current recruitment cost for that unit type.
 

Gringovoir

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Also, if we are at it, in 1.11 seven cities of gold are scripted in such a way that if I have an active search for a city that can onle be found in specific region and all provinces from this region are discovered, I won't be able to abort the search and start new ones. Don't think it was WAD.
 

Morwys

Lord of Flies
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The free claims save you a lot of aggressive expansion, so it's certainly correct to take the mission, wage a war, cancel it, take another mission, finish or cancel that, rinse and repeat when the truce is over. This would still be the case even if the claims stayed, but at least it would make it possible to finish the mission in one go if you're role-playing.

Precisely.