Missionary Strength and Piety

[Siu-King**]

So out of nowhere, the two sides of piety bonuses are reversed in this patch.
It means if you crusade everyone, you will never get that +3% missionary strength.

Is that intended? Cause I don't see anything that warrants a nerf like this

 

[JusticeLighT]

Paradox thinks islam is as much humanist as Confucian. %.8.5 max missonary strenght for islam its so stupidity.

 

[Siu-King**]

Paradox thinks islam is as much humanist as Confucian. %.8.5 max missonary strenght for islam its so stupidity.

I rather hope someone fucked up the coding word of "pious" "impious"

 

[bly08]

It's apparently WAD but not really

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...apped-legalism-and-mysticism-bonuses.1055522/

 

[Siu-King**]

It's apparently WAD but not really
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...apped-legalism-and-mysticism-bonuses.1055522/

Looks like they are saying it's WAD but most evidence says otherwise, and they are just trying to cover up their mistake.

In any case, crusading same religion gives missionary strength is pure nonsense in gameplay sense

 

[makaramus]

well muslims were not hard converters aganist other religions... thats reason I think. dhimmi was more a thing than forcefully converting. both in india and anatolia

 

[HRErceg]

@makaramus Whole of the middle east, N Africa, India and Anatolia would say otherwise

 

[I'm gaming]

Mysticism helped converting heathen in real history. So giving missionary strength to Mysticism isn't wrong. The problem is, piety changes from declaring wars like old impious-pious model, which is totally wrong with current mysticism-legalism model.

Also, mysticism should give missionary strength against heathens, not missionary strength all, and give tolerance to heretics, not morale, and give manpower bonus, not fort defence. Legalism should give missionary strength against heretics, not tech cost reduction.

 

[makaramus]

@makaramus Whole of the middle east, N Africa, India and Anatolia would say otherwise

"hard converters" means that "you convert or you die" kind of people :/ reason behind this muslims MOSTLY had trouble NON BELIVERS(by that I mean people that have no religion)
muslims belived that christians and muslims beliving same god so forcing them to convert was not best kind of action. instead they tried to lure them to convert

 

[netherlink]

I don't care very much about whether its called pious, mysticism, legalism or what not, but i think it's totally not good to lose missionary strength when attacking heathens and gaining when attacking true faith. That's just annoying and makes no sense gameplay-wise.... unless it's intended to attack "brothers in faith" to gain missionary strength to convert the provinces you conquered in the wars before...

 

[makaramus]

I don't care very much about whether its called pious, mysticism, legalism or what not, but i think it's totally not good to lose missionary strength when attacking heathens and gaining when attacking true faith. That's just annoying and makes no sense gameplay-wise.... unless it's intended to attack "brothers in faith" to gain missionary strength to convert the provinces you conquered in the wars before...

what if this is a counter part to balance new "islamic schools" they gained? in that case makes sense actually

 

[Zwirbaum]

what if this is a counter part to balance new "islamic schools" they gained? in that case makes sense actually

If that is the case, it nerfs big chunk of the world for the people who do not own DLC without a reason.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If that is the case, it nerfs big chunk of the world for the people who do not own DLC without a reason.

That would be in line with previous DLCs, unfortunately.

Scholar invitations are kind of weak though, I guess the -10% AE and -10% dev can each have their moments.

The #1 problem with Islam now is that it's much, much weaker pre-idea groups, where previously its early game was one of the best due to piety + ruler stat decisions not depending on tech for conversion strength like decisions for strength in other religions. Religious or humanist was less urgent for Sunni in particular.

Now, it's yet another "take humanist" religion. Christianity > Hindu > Islam > Tengri/Fetish.

 

[Siu-King**]

The #1 problem with Islam now is that it's much, much weaker pre-idea groups, where previously its early game was one of the best due to piety + ruler stat decisions not depending on tech for conversion strength like decisions for strength in other religions. Religious or humanist was less urgent for Sunni in particular.

Now, it's yet another "take humanist" religion. Christianity > Hindu > Islam > Tengri/Fetish.

And the +1 strength from 5 dip ruler stat decision is removed as well...
so it's basically 4% loss

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yes, it's basically like playing animist with more missionaries.

You're way better off with the tolerance route if you stay in Islam. You probably CAN still mass convert with inquisitor cycling and 5-6 missionaries, but there's little upside to it.

 

[JusticeLighT]

missionary strength 14.5%-15% in the previous patch. now max missionary strenght as sunni or shia 8.5% totally 6% loss

 

[Siu-King**]

missionary strength 14.5%-15% in the previous patch. now max missionary strenght as sunni or shia 8.5% totally 6% loss

base 2%
inquisitor 2%
religious 3%
stab 1.5%
= 8.5%

piety 3%
previous ruler decision 1%
= 12.5%

2 policy gives 2%

 

[JusticeLighT]

base 2%
inquisitor 2%
religious 3%
= 7%

piety 3%
previous ruler decision 1%
2 policy gives 2%

 

[Ostovar Hossein]

I don't care very much about whether its called pious, mysticism, legalism or what not, but i think it's totally not good to lose missionary strength when attacking heathens and gaining when attacking true faith. That's just annoying and makes no sense gameplay-wise.... unless it's intended to attack "brothers in faith" to gain missionary strength to convert the provinces you conquered in the wars before...

Haha lol imao you made my day.

 

[Rabid]

And the +1 strength from 5 dip ruler stat decision is removed as well...
so it's basically 4% loss

This one still exists, it's the 3 admin "sheik-ul-islam" decision which is removed.