Mission trees feedback thread; what would you like to see changed or added, and why?

[EarlKonrad]

Cannot make promises but we will keep it in mind,

A thread in the Suggestions Forum collecting all the suggestions for missions would be really useful to have them all collected and take them as inspiration if the right time comes.

I'll start. Generally speaking, I don't like missions which give you modifiers that last a short time (10 to 25 years). They not only tend to not be that impactful but they also don't last long at all. anything less than 25 years is a drop in a bucket if you consider that EU 4 runs for almost 280 years and Golden Ages last for 50 years. I'd like seeing temp. buff lasting as low as 25 years and as high as 50 years across the board. This would make them feel much more impactful, even if they are something small like 5% morale (yes, it is small but can be situationally useful, I know) or 10% trade efficiency.

Mission specific, I'd like to see a couple of trees revisited. The Ottomans, while having a ton or permaclaims, feel really old and bland because they just get permaclaims and some naval related temporary bonuses. Your reward for conquering stuff is more stuff to conquer. While this is great at making the AI expand, it isn't as exciting as all the mission we've got since this system was introduced. It isn't even that newer missions are that much stronger because if we look at Byzantium's tree (which was day 1 DLC) it gives not only a ton of permaclaims but also some useful temporary bonuses to help you while you expand your nation. The Ottoman's tree also has no interaction at all with their unique mechanics (understandably so as they were created almost half a decade later). Byzantium, on the other hand, has some religious missions that grand them Patriarcal Authority which is neat.

Moving on to France, when their mission was first introduced there were a lot of players on the forum asking how to complete "L'État, c'est moi" as they were either struggling with getting average Autonomy so low or had no idea how to heck for it. If there were so many players struggling with that mission, maybe its requirements should be eased a bit or the game should better convey how to complete it. As its stands, the only (that I know of) way to check for average autonomy is to check for progress reform. Maybe this information could be made easier to access?

Scotland. I'd like to see their mission "Rule Britannia" either give at least a permanent modifier and/or have the duration of the buffs increased. As it stands 20 years is not enough to build a navy for Scotland. As you start out rather small and poor, by the time you complete that mission your finances won't afford you to take advantage of the cheaper navy so the player will either not finish it for half a decade and then finish it after they built a couple of manufactories and are making more ducats, or they will simply not make use of the bonuses. Most likely it will be saved for when/if the player wants to sink Spain's navy and the cheaper/faster navy portion will get ignored entirely in favour of the stronger navy portion.

Palemberg. According to the wiki they have a mission called "Orang Laut" which gives -10% Yearly Naval Tradition Decay. Is this correct? If so, how can you reduce twice the maximum decay amount? I don't own Leviathan so I have no way of checking this. On a similar note, according to the wiki The Iroquoian tree has a mission called "First Confederacy" which gives +10 tribal allegiance. Correct me if I'm wrong but tribal allegiance is only used by a couple of Arabic nations and not by any NA Native. And, if some do, shouldn't this mission also give something else for Natives that don't? I think these two are either wrong in the wiki or me not understanding them correctly but anyway.

In terms of New Missions what I'd like to see the most are unique missions for the nations that were the focus for Cradle of Civilization and a unique generic tree for Cossack nations. It is unfortunate that Third Rome nations got unique trees after this new system was implemented while we are still MISSING trees for Middle Eastern nations. Similarly, Cossack revolter nations have bugger all for content (but this is the topic for another thread). The least they could get is a small unique tree.

 

[Romanix90]

Russia - Their mission tree is small for such a big nation. I suggested several times that it should be expanded in a way to encourage players to go for Caucasus and Central Asia like Russia historically did.

Byzantium - Their current missions are big and fine i guess but it would be cool that certain decisions and events be part of it. Like for example triumphant decisions and flavorfull events regarding Athens, Jerusalem and so on. Also perhaps to expand these events and decisions and integrate them into missions like lets say Alexandria captured event or triumph for Egypt. Also a mission regarding Byzantine name. Instead of decision to restore the Roman empire simply let player to decide its name like what you did in Leviathan regarding Malaya.

France - Their mission tree is huge and i would dare to suggest it being expanded. Like in the case with Origins where player have to make direction regarding religion in the case of France the player would have to choose. Whether to go for Egypt or to go for Algiers and Sub Saharan Africa.

These are some suggestion reworks that i would like to see.

 

[WindingArc]

• Temporary bonuses are alright if they're meant to help a country accomplish a specific, short-term objective.
  • Muscovy's/Russia's missionary strength bonuses to convert the steppe are a good example.
• Province-level bonuses are often better than tag-level bonuses.
• Conquering most of an area/region rather than an entire area/region should be the standard for mission completion.
• Projecting power is more interesting than pure conquest.
  • Merchant republics should be able to complete conquest missions by having provinces controlled by tags in their trade leagues, not just by non-tributary subjects.
  • Gaining trade power in a node is another way to project power without conquest.
• Missions should let countries do things they can't do within the scope of regular mechanics.
  • Gaining tributaries that don't share a border with the Emperor of China, like Ryukyu or the Philippine minors, would be good candidates for missions.

 

[Romanix90]

This is the second part of my wishlist :

1. Chinese generic missionn - These would be shared between Ming, Ming revolters tag, Mongols and Manchus. Since the devs and players are devided in the case of Ming geting unique missions i think that having Chinese generic would make some compromise. If north and south Indians can have different generic missions there's no reason China wouldn't have one.

2. Ottomans - Their missions are huge as it is however i would like them being expanded. Also perhaps some sort of disaster that would appear in late game to replicate historical downfall of Ottomans and missions to combat this disaster.

3. Turkish minors - Idea here is that Turkish minors should have missions that would lead them to restore Rum. I also suggest that restoring Rum be readjusted so that Constantinople is no longer required and that they don't get Ottoman government reform. I feel like that should exclusively be for Ottomans. Upon restoring Rum missions would expand to encourage player to restore the borders of the former Seljuk empire. Note that i'm not suggesting restoration of Seljuks but their former borders and since Rum was once subject to Seljuks who better to do it.

4. Mamluks - Another giant with small, like 4 - 5 unique missions. They definitively deserve some love here.

5 Arab minors and Arabia - Now Arab minors and Arabia should definitively get unique missions. Like Arab minors would have goal to form and unite Arabia, while Arabia to restore borders of former Caliphate. Perhaps Yemen and Oman could get something unique.

6. Georgia - Very interesting nation and definitely deserves some touch here. Don't know much about history of Georgia but they sure do deserve unique missions.

7. Trebizond - Now this is a Roman break away country. After 4th crusade this country emerged and lasted even after 1453. Very interesting nation in tuff situation. My suggestion here is that their missions would mainly revolve arround reforming Byzantium or, like i wrote in previous suggestion, give player choice to name their country how they see fit. Also their government type should change to elective monarchy, something like Poland.

8. Karabakh and Armenia - Another Christian nation in grim situation. Their missions should revolve on reestablishing the borders of Armenian empire.

9. Ardabil and Persia - Ardabil should start with some missions with the aim to form Persia, since that's what Ardabil Saffavid dinasty did. Perhaps grant them Qizilbash military, something unique to ensure that they can pull the punch as long as they remain muslim, Shia or Sunni. I also suggest that Persia should have religious direction on whether to stay Muslim or restore Zoroastrianism. Persian NI should also be moddified to represent their religious selection. So if player stay Muslim nothing changes, if you convert to Zoroastrianism the word Islam and anything asociated gets kicked out since you're now Zoroastrian. Also in the case you are Zoroastrian it is cool to keep title of Shah but Feudal Theocracy and ability to Sanciton Holy wars is something that Zoroastrians never did. So again i suggest this be changed only if Persia is Zoroastrian, if it's Muslim nothing changes.

10. Nubia and Nubian minors - Ever since Nubia is formabel tag, Nubian minors seems to be geting some unique flavor. To complete this flavor missions would do the trick. My suggestion here is that Nubian minors be encouraged to unite Nubians, and Nubia itself to go for Kushite restoration. Like invasion of Egypt and perhaps Holy land.

Now these are some of my thoughts on the region i find very interesting.

 

[Romanix90]

This one will purely be about Qing and EoC.

Qing should be like ultimate formable in China. Their NI are great so nothing to change there in my opinion. Their missions however should definitely be more unique and less to none generic. As for EoC most of the players avoid it since it's more penalizing than rewarding. I mean getting perma claims on China plus some extra GC is all cool and should remain. War for Chinese unification is also good CB but I think that whole EoC should be better. Not to extreme so Mingplosion don't happen but perhaps adjusted so if you're Qing you get most of the good things while if you play as Ming better brace yourself and be ready for trouble ahead. Also perhaps replicating some nasty effects from decline of Mali into Ming so Mingplosion is more frequent. Just suggestion.

 

[currylambchop]

Ming should have missions to rebuild the treasure fleet and establish more tributaries.

 

[Romanix90]

This one will be about Scandinavia and Baltics

1. Denmark - Very interesting nation. Well situated and in position to become member of HRE or focus on unifeing Scandinavia. Their missions should replicate this. Also a little bit of colonization etc. Not an expert of Scandinavia and Baltics so i'll just post short on each country.

2. Norway - Another well positioned nation. Them and Sweden should get a mission to liberate themself and perhaps colonization.

3. Sweden - Basically the same as Norway. Perhaps conquest of Baltics and some territories from Germany, plus colonization.

4. Livonian order - I know very little about Baltic nations so i'll keep it short.

5. Teutonic order

6. Kurland - Now what's interesting to me about this nation is that it have its own unique NI but no missions. I think that this nation should definitely get some.


This one is about Colonial nations and Post colonial states

1. Colonial generic - I think that CN should have their own unique generic missions where they could decide on whether to stay loyal or rebel against their colonial master.

2. USA - Their missions should revolve on securing NA for themself. Like establishing historical borders and so on. Also since religion dont play huge impact in USA because they guarante freedom of religion they shouldn't have missionaries. Now this is just an idea. In return they could culture convert thru any religion as long as that religion is in NA. Also perhaps conquest of Hawaii and Philipines.

3. Mexico - Idk much about Mexico but am familiar in Mexico US war. So perhaps their missions could reflect this. Like defence against USA or conquest of SA.

4. Columbia - Don't know much about Columbia so i'll leave it at that.

5. Brazil

6. La Plata/Argentina

7. Australia

Probably some more nations like Canada or Quebec. Just some thoughts.

 

[Stiopa866]

While there is a lot that could be written, I think that vanilla should explore the following two concepts:

- Dynamic Mission Rewards - which are mission rewards that vary depending on other triggers - often not specified in the triggers themselves - those can be used to give temporary reward to the players who care and who wish to go after certain goals - for example Poland can have a mission about defeating the ottoman empire - and one that gives you additional reward if you do it early

Other examples could be "Gain 25 Mil power for each privilege granted out of Nobility" or "Reduce autonomy by a further -10.0% if our stability is at least 3".
However, these benefits should be strictly temporary IMHO. The player should not be expected to go out of their way to get a permanent modifier for a 'side-quest'! The 'side-quests' should also be relatively quick and easy to fulfill, requiring investment of some monarch power or to take an additional challenge, rather than invest in conquer an additional areas' worth of provinces.

I'd like to add that the 'ifs' aren't new to the mission trees, but oftentimes they are hidden and not specified... (As an example, the requirement for GBR/ENG to be of different religion to yours in order to get the 'Restoration of Personal Union' cb in the Spanish GC mission tree...)

Another concept that could be explored by vanilla are 'Evolving modifiers', which would be permanent modifiers that start really weak, but slowly add up the more missions you complete . They are slightly painful to script, but if scripted carefully I think they can be helpful to give missions a more 'satisfactory' feel. (which is what many people complain about, the hatred of temporary buffs...). Of course this would need to be added with much care

Oh, and while at it, I think that the devs should definitely continue the policy introduced in the Manchu patch, whereas various triggers requiring conquest of areas/regions would require a number of provinces in the given area, rather than all of them. This gives the player the chance to strategize which war targets to choose from and how to play out their game just right. When strict regions are required from the player, it takes one major power/ally to take one province in that region to essentially screw up your plans.
Oh, and maybe one more thing: sometimes claims should be given out more 'generous' claims that target more than the next target of the missions, so that the user can take more lands than that are needed for the next 'mission' in line

Edit: Wanted to add some more comments.
Edit: added the 'Oh, and while at it' paragraph

 

[MateuszS]

1. HRE/Germany: add more missions (not necessarily conquer X ones) and break/overhaul military ones (claims on whole France/Baltics/Carpathia are just silly; even if these are to stay, break them so it won't look ridiculous). Currently these trees are not only the same, but simply bad.
2. Italy: looks better, although should have more missions (especially that has less missions than Italian minors, which is ridiculous).
3, Ottomans: while almost every other world power has formidable mission tree that is just fullfillment of it's wet dreams, Ottomans barely conquer what they held in real life; what about fancy missions like "break the Empire (HRE)", "conquer Italy", "conquer Persia/India/Spain" or whatever?

 

[Ogele]

I should bookmark this thread.

Just in case

 

[Hezekiah]

I think the HRE should get a unique mission tree instead of sharing much of her mission tree with Germany. In the ideal case, both nations should be provided with distinct bonuses throughout their mission trees. I would like to see the HRE's tree change based on the state religion, but that would be a lot of work on Tinto's part for small gains. I think the main two focuses could fall along these lines for the HRE:

• The HRE should have missions to create a united Europe, both politically and religiously.
  • Some missions could vary depending on what religion the empire has, what religion won the league war, and whether a peace of Westphalia was signed.
  • The various claims and other CBs should be justified by some sense of "Universal Empire" instead of "Blood and Iron", even if the flow is similar.
  • There are a lot of cultures in Europe; a mission reward that grants some way to treat true faith provinces of non-accepted cultures as "same culture group, but not accepted" provinces could help.
    
• The HRE should have missions to "reconquer" and pacify the territories held by the Roman Empire, indicating its claims as a successor state.

I would prefer Germany to gain missions more related to an "Enlightenment" or "Revolutionary" unified Germany as opposed to the current mission tree, which leans heavily on Victorian Germany. However, the missions are more fitting for Germany than for the Holy Roman Empire, so they could remain unchanged.

 

[MateuszS]

I think the HRE should get a unique mission tree instead of sharing much of her mission tree with Germany. In the ideal case, both nations should be provided with distinct bonuses throughout their mission trees. I would like to see the HRE's tree change based on the state religion, but that would be a lot of work on Tinto's part for small gains. I think the main two focuses could fall along these lines for the HRE:

• The HRE should have missions to create a united Europe, both politically and religiously.
  • Some missions could vary depending on what religion the empire has, what religion won the league war, and whether a peace of Westphalia was signed.
  • The various claims and other CBs should be justified by some sense of "Universal Empire" instead of "Blood and Iron", even if the flow is similar.
  • There are a lot of cultures in Europe; a mission reward that grants some way to treat true faith provinces of non-accepted cultures as "same culture group, but not accepted" provinces could help.
• The HRE should have missions to "reconquer" and pacify the territories held by the Roman Empire, indicating its claims as a successor state.

I would prefer Germany to gain missions more related to an "Enlightenment" or "Revolutionary" unified Germany as opposed to the current mission tree, which leans heavily on Victorian Germany. However, the missions are more fitting for Germany than for the Holy Roman Empire, so they could remain unchanged.

Agree. HRE should have missions based on medieval history and politics (unification of Charlemagne's empire, some crusader kings missions like liberate Constantinopole and Jerusalem, cesaropapism AKA own Rome, Teutonic legacy, dealig with schismatics etc.). For Germany I don't have clear idea yet (maybe some colonial endeavors?). Copypaste of free-claims-missions is just silly and lazy.

 

[Romanix90]

There are also some things regarding Colonial nations and other subjects i have in mind. It is my opinion that CN should be locked in Colonial Region, so for example you'll have no colonial Brazil colonize Mexico or anywhere else to that matter. In creation menu there should be expanded tools so player can choose capital for CN and perhaps historical flag that CN used. Also in the case that player misclicked no biggie you can use your ADM to move capital of your CN and other subjects like you do for your own nation. Regarding subjects it would be cool to have the ability to influence your subject like what ideas should they pick at the cost or even invest MP into research of either new tech or ideas as well as perhaps spreading main culture of your subject in their land at the same cost as you would do in your own country. These are some of my thoughts I would like to see in EU4.

 

[Romanix90]

I'll apologize to everyone if I'm boring but simply I have these ideas that I'd like to share with you. This one is regarding Eastern Catholic nations. As we all know countries like Hungary, Poland and Lithuania have under their control provinces that follow Orthodox religion. Now my suggestion is that Eastern Catholic nations have estate modifier that would grant +100 religious unity and - 100 missionary strength. In this case scenario let's call it Uniat administration and could be taken from Clergy estate. Countries that would have access to this are : Austria, Hungary, Poland, Lithuania and PLC.

 

[random_name_euIV]

I really like the trade missions of the new DLC and the possibility to achieve them peacefully. Different nations like Oman, Lübeck or Venice could be improved by similar missions.
Venice's mission tree has some minor gameplay problems:
50% trade power in Genoa is quite a lot,
the gaining at least two states mission breaks when turning the Balkan provinces into trade companies,
and the renovation of the doge palace could be connected with the newly added monuments.

Contentwise, I think some of the mission rewards should be permanent (Papacy, Carnevale, and Relazioni) and
the conquest of Tirol limited to Trent (maybe getting an province trade and defensiveness modifier like Portugal in Hormuz).

 

[NIborGER]

Already mentioned but I want to second that Byzantium is overdue for an overhaul of its mission-tree. With all the possibilities added, I think there is great opportunity to give a BYZ-playthrough a lot of flavour instead just some boring perma claims for conqueror province X. Also, I assume its one of the more frequent played nations so many players would benefit.


Other nations I do believe deserve some love regarding mission trees and gov reforms are: Hisn Kayfa, Persia, Aztecs, Maya, Lübeck and Inca.

• Hisn Kayfa: There already is an achievement to restore Saladins legacy. A missiontree that tie into that, giving it some extra flavour around the Ayyubids would be awesome and justified.
• Aztecs: IMO a sunset campaign is one of the most enjoyable playthroughs that go into the later years. Even as an OPM, a decent player usually completely outclasses any AI nation by 1600 without even trying. However, as Aztecs, or meso-american, its not that easy. So the AI nations still pose a challenge by 1600.
  • Currently it has the generic american missions, which don’t tie in well with its religious reforms and its only "unique" mission reform our religion has 20 prestige as reward which classifies as an insult, at best. Thus, I believe it deserves its own missiontree focused around consolidating Mexico, repelling the colonizers, sizing the Caribbeans and maybe finally colonizing Iberia to establish a beachhead in Europe. A cool reward would be an inversion of the trade flow between Caribbeans and Sevilla.
  • Furthermoreon gov reforms/reforming the religion: just copying the gov reform from a nation you happen to border when reforming feels really odd. Staying a monarchy should be the norm. Also, creating a nahuatl unique gov that lifes in the spirit of the flower wars could easily be done by recycling the mechanics from the QQ-gov reform (humiliate rivals and win battles to gain some rewards). Also, this way the bonus from tenochtitlan (-doom) might receive some use past the first years of the game.
• Maya: Unique religion with 0 unique flavour for any nation starting with that religion and the Mayan formable doesn't add anything remarkable as well.
  • Not totally sure how to make them unique. A just sunset invade anyways themed mission-tree would be wrong. However, since the formable is called the league of mayapan and mayan religion has many "trade in feathers" events, it sort of gives me Dutch republic vibes. So maybe something about forming a trade empire from the new world could work.
• Inca: IMO the most boring meso religion to reform and the one that takes the longest to reform since it is very isolated. No clue how to change that.
• Persia: Important nation historically not at all represented by its mission tree. Something about the struggle between Sunnis and Shias could give it great flavor. I don’t think ancient Persia references like expanding into Greece should be avoided (unless it’s a Zoroastrian Persia). I would rate this the most important arabian "major" since IMO there is nothing interesting about playing Ottos or maluks. As those you have already won the game by 1444 and thus a waste of time to play.
• Lübeck/Hansa: I know it has a mission tree but it’s mostly conquoer X including landlocked places. I don’t think it does the importance of the Hanse Justice, which was massive at it largest expansion. However, it was never a nation but a tradeunion of independent nations. Also, a mission reward idea: invert traderoute between english channel and lübeck. Furthermore, merchant republic mechanics are in need of a rework, or any faction based governments.
• Honourable mentions: QQ, Ardabil, TO, LO

PS: General meso stuff: with how decline of Mali, Mutapa, Khmer and Majapahit are modelled I think by now you as devs have much better tool at hand to replace the very 1 dimensional and easy avoidable "rapid collapse of society" modifier and replace it by a disaster that is challenging to overcome even for a human player.

PPS: this post got much bigger then I first thought.



*fixed some spelling

 

[EarlKonrad]

PS: General meso stuff: with how decline of mali, mutapa, khmer and majapahit are modelled I think by now you have much better tool at hand to replace the very 1 dimensional and easy avoidable "rapid collapse of society" modifier and replace it by a even for a human player challanging desaster.

Would love to see Mesoamericans + Quechuans (and other Andean people) getting a decent overhaul and a good mission tree. Despite all the jank associated with playing in the New World, playing as either the Aztecs or a Mayan tag can be fun. Incas suffer from being too isolated which I doubt can be fixed unless Devs figure out something to do in peace time other than dealing with endless rebel spam.

A generic mission tree pushing Middle East nations into forming Persia, a buff to Persia so that they can threaten Ottos and a unique mission for Ardabil would be amazing.

 

[moscal]

Mayans - missions focused on "pholosophy and science power". Mayan curiosity about world would give options to interesant tall game. Also as standard good would be also bonuses for "humanistic style game".

• "No more Star Wars" - historical SW's were extremely destructive for mayan civilization, Rethinking about this would give option to better stabilization of nation in long-time period.
• Millenarianism - historical "Caste War" was based also on millenarianistic ideas. Maybe with good leader and pholosopher or theologist reformed united Mayan would have option to ideological or religious radicalisation.
• Archaeological research and using of ancient ruins - ancient Mayans, Olmecs and others cultures left many ruins, finded still even today. Research next using this would be good point to extra free dev or regional reduce dev-cost.

Persia + minors - of course there must be a fragment of the conquest of Iran and internal religious choices (classical Shia vs Sunni or maybe other). Extra point should be rethinking do "Noble estate" should be lock in start game and unlock by missions.

• Caspian Nations - they also should have missions focused more on trading, economy and collaboration with steppe tribes.
• Azeri Nations - using Qizilbashes and export Shia to Anatolia and rest of Middle East. Some point to better military situation.
• Post-Timurid minors - focused on fight about Timur legacy, reform this to new persian despotism and lesser concern about religion. Maybe also way to raze mechanism.
• Mushasha - this was arabian nation, but had potential to be important point in persian chessboard. Missions should give option to create "centre of reformation" (like a hussite Bohemian), because Mushashan ideology had power to be attractive even without direct actions of state. And extra points to easier persianization of country and religious radicalization.
• "Third Force branche" - maybe for all persian minors and Persia or only for united Persia. Concept to adoption caucasian nations (main christians) to growthing central power and balancing power of Qizilbashes and clergs.
• "Cultural power" - important also should be branche about using persian diasport and minority to cultural and diplomatical preasure on muslim and indian world. Shortet for minors, longer branche for Persia.

 

[Vin55]

Baltics should get an update as should russia (too small compared to France or austria)

 

[annulen]

Colonial generic - I think that CN should have their own unique generic missions where they could decide on whether to stay loyal or rebel against their colonial master.

I second this. When playing for overlord, the only missions which your AI CNs can reasonably achieve (themselves or with your help to speed up process) are 3 missions from the first list (up to "Conquer New States") and 2 missions from the third (up to "Build Buildings"). Other missions are either impossible or irrelevant for subject nations. It would be great if there was something more interesting. On the other hand, it might be frustrating if with new mission tree AI CNs will rebel right after getting 50.1% LD just to fulfill mission

Also, HRE missions contain generic "Administrative missions", including aforementioned "Build Buildings". Problem is that it requires 5 temples and 5 workshops, and most of HRE countries don't have 5 provinces and struggle easily expand when controlled by AI. It would be great to have a similar "economic" mission for HRE minors which could be done without expansion.