Mission Drop Weight Limits

[Dracounguis]

I assume it's been mentioned before, but with all the tweaks in 1.1 it's really become something that would make this game more playable past the story-line.

There's already a 'meter' telling me how many tons I can do (obviously it maxes out at 400) but is essentially useless.

It would be nice if the missions limited my (and the OpFor's) weights. Not every mission should allow / require 4 Assault Mechs. There are plenty of 'grab the data/scientist' missions where you'd think 4 Light Mechs would be the preferred force. But if the OpFor has 8 Assault Mechs guarding...

All missions should boil down to:
Go here
Do This
You have X tons on this drop.

But as of now, you just grab your 4 best Assaults, stomp your way to X, kill the OpFor and get a ride home. If there was a weight limit then some non-"kill everything!" missions would actually require you to grab-n-go or maneuver and be precise on what you are doing. And maybe having a lance of lights might be worth keeping around in your ship.

 

[TaurianMerc]

This argument has been hashed out on here repeatedly. Personally I am against the idea, largely because from an in-universe standpoint it makes no sense. You have a Leopard dropship which can drop 4 mechs with no appreciable weight limit. What could possibly prevent me from taking an Atlas/King Crab combi?
There might be an argument for missions that have some sort of incentive for taking a particular class of mech - a collection mission with a time limit, before heavy reinforcements arrive, might reward sending a fast light to grab the objective before retreating to the cover of the heavier lance members. It would also allow those wanting to take all assaults to also have their way but it might be difficult to get to the objective before the enemy locks it down with their reinforcements and you would have to fight your way through.

 

[OSWALDtheOCTOPUS]

I admit the 4 mech cap is limiting. I can forsee it becoming more so if community and 3rd party content (such as with the Shadowrun Returns games) allows for vehicle use. A company or demi company with drop or battle value limits gap would allow for much scenario flexibility IMO.

 

[TKaz84]

I admit the 4 mech cap is limiting. I can forsee it becoming more so if community and 3rd party content (such as with the Shadowrun Returns games) allows for vehicle use. A company or demi company with drop or battle value limits gap would allow for much scenario flexibility IMO.

I honestly don't think we're going to see a player force expand beyond four mechs in anything less than a Battletech 2. When the designers say that they made this game to be about lance vs lance mech combat, I believe them. There are too many things that would have to change to accommodate multiple lances (the UI, the initiative system, the skills system (because now lance and company command skills become a thing!), the size of the maps, the different movement mechanics for the various ground vehicle types, how/if aerospace or VTOL assets will work, etc.) that are simply beyond the scope of what I believe this game is designed to be.

 

[OSWALDtheOCTOPUS]

Fair enough. If it gets us a sequel I'm all for it.

 

[Dracounguis]

This argument has been hashed out on here repeatedly. Personally I am against the idea, largely because from an in-universe standpoint it makes no sense. You have a Leopard dropship which can drop 4 mechs with no appreciable weight limit. What could possibly prevent me from taking an Atlas/King Crab combi?
There might be an argument for missions that have some sort of incentive for taking a particular class of mech - a collection mission with a time limit, before heavy reinforcements arrive, might reward sending a fast light to grab the objective before retreating to the cover of the heavier lance members. It would also allow those wanting to take all assaults to also have their way but it might be difficult to get to the objective before the enemy locks it down with their reinforcements and you would have to fight your way through.

Yeah, if you want to take an Atlas/KC combo for 200 tons and fight off a swarm of lighter Mechs; that'd be fine. It just gets a bit boring after endgame that you are 'forced' to take as much mass as possible since you will be fighting 8 Assault Mechs every freaking mission.

IMO, 'optimally' you'd choose your force and the NPC force would be tailored to balance your force. Now, I don't see that happening here ever, so it'd have to be baked into the mission requirements.

 

[Justin Kase]

It would be nice to have tangible reasons for limitations:

• Boggy/swampy - could reduce movement making certain weight classes nothing more than turrets.
• Thin ice shelf/volcanic crust - Risk of 'Mechs over a certain tonnage (and or jumping) breaking through.
• City maps - with to old school 'random basements' rule.
• Orbital insertion - Can only use 'Mechs with JumpJets and the units are more scattered than normal.

Adding in more timed or back to back missions would add more variance as well.

 

[Dracounguis]

It would be nice to have tangible reasons for limitations:

• Boggy/swampy - could reduce movement making certain weight classes nothing more than turrets.
• Thin ice shelf/volcanic crust - Risk of 'Mechs over a certain tonnage (and or jumping) breaking through.
• City maps - with to old school 'random basements' rule.
• Orbital insertion - Can only use 'Mechs with JumpJets and the units are more scattered than normal.

Adding in more timed or back to back missions would add more variance as well.

Or maybe a high G world so the Leopard doesn't want 400 tons of cargo.

 

[TaurianMerc]

Yeah, if you want to take an Atlas/KC combo for 200 tons

Wait, what? I meant 400 tons, you know a whole lance like we are able to carry in our lovely Leopard.

It just gets a bit boring after endgame that you are 'forced' to take as much mass as possible since you will be fighting 8 Assault Mechs every freaking mission.

Well, I've never been forced to run 4 assaults. I still maintain a nice shiny Shawk for my scout.

IMO, 'optimally' you'd choose your force and the NPC force would be tailored to balance your force. Now, I don't see that happening here ever, so it'd have to be baked into the mission requirements.

Well, the game has been around for 30 years or so and they still haven't found a way to properly balance things.

 

[Dracounguis]

Wait, what? I meant 400 tons, you know a whole lance like we are able to carry in our lovely Leopard.
Well, I've never been forced to run 4 assaults. I still maintain a nice shiny Shawk for my scout.
Well, the game has been around for 30 years or so and they still haven't found a way to properly balance things.

Why I said 'forced' not forced. Are you gonna take 4 Locusts against 8 Assault Mechs? So the way the game is set up, they 'force' you to move up the weight scale as the game progresses. You don't have to but it will make your chance of winning much greater.
Since I've not seen any mention of Batte Values (1 or 2) in this game we only have mass to balance things.

 

[Donvale]

As much as this argument has been done to death...
I am playing with the Drop Limit by Dificulty mod and the combat part of Battletech is simply a better game with drop limits!
I know people have lore and story concerns, but when that stops you making the game more fun to play to enforce them... well you better make sure your arguments are really sound!
I also play with a drop cost based on mech cost, which is more like a soft limit and while this also improves the game especially early on, you will eventually reach a point financially where you will happily lose money and just max out every drop to ensure low repair and high salvage and it's unfortunately the end game that needs help the most in the fun department!
Like all things though, they could simply have it as an optional dificulty setting, here's hoping they just add loads and loads of these every DLC patch!

 

[Justin Kase]

There are BattleValue fields in the 'Mech, Vehicle and Weapon files (possibly others too) - not sure if this is an abandoned idea, or if they are prepping for the future.