Missing Service Fees Option for Healthcare and Deathcare, Garbage Management, Education and Research, Transportation while the options exist in the de

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Nov 24, 2013
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Information​

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Summary​

Missing Service Fees Option for Healthcare and Deathcare, Garbage Management, Education and Research, Transportation while the options exist in the devmode tools so they could easily be implemented to use

Steps to reproduce​

Just play the game

Expected Result​

The service fees options for the missing ones listed above.

Actual Result​

No Service fee setting for certain services

Game Version​

1.0.11f1

Affected Feature​

  • Gameplay

Platform​

  • Steam

Additional Information​

Additional Information​

For some reason we don't have options for certain service fees, Missing Service Fees Option for Healthcare and Deathcare, Garbage Management, Education and Research, Transportation while the options exist in the devmode tools so they could easily be implemented to use for everyone. Also no service fees option for roads and that one actually aint even in the devmode either

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They are meant to be free for garbage and anything else not electricity / water / sewer? That is game breaking. What is the purpose of local garbage services at all if they are free with an outside connection?
Some service fees are visible and adjustable by the player and some services are paid by the citizens, like in the case of transportation by paying for the tickets.
 
Some service fees are visible and adjustable by the player and some services are paid by the citizens, like in the case of transportation by paying for the tickets.

But there is no way to see what they're paying? In the case of transit, the player at least sets a ticket cost.

The end result is no need to build services, especially since the fees cims may be paying for outside connection services are opaque to the player. How can it be the case that all cims in a city of e.g. 10k are collectively paying another city to collect their garbage without complaint?

If there were a service fee, then the player will know when it is economically viable to transfer the burden of the service to the local city (exactly how it works with electricity and water -- why are those different?).

Is there any failure condition in this game?
 
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But there is no way to see what they're paying? In the case of transit, the player at least sets a ticket cost.

The end result is no need to build services, especially since the fees cims may be paying for outside connection services are opaque to the player. How can it be the case that all cims in a city of e.g. 10k are collectively paying another city to collect their garbage without complaint?

If there were a service fee, then the player will know when it is economically viable to transfer the burden of the service to the local city (exactly how it works with electricity and water -- why are those different?).

Is there any failure condition in this game?
I don't know if you're aware of this thread:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...anagement-in-the-game-is-a-deception.1604434/

But it's essentially a long talk about exactly this issue, with various people having made interesting tests.

Basically: You can more or less ignore the simulation, at least for a large amount of the time, and still get a successful city. Because the game will cover your bases for you where you yourself fail. There also doesn't seem to be a clear association between various parts of the system. Someone managed to create a city with zero outside connections, 0 population, which still somehow had production and tax revenue.

It seems if you're into city builders with simulations, this isn't the game. It will do your job for you where you neglect to do it, essentially taking away all the negative consequences that is part of the fun (at least for players who are interested in more than just city painting).
 
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Some service fees are visible and adjustable by the player and some services are paid by the citizens, like in the case of transportation by paying for the tickets.
I have to disagree because the Deathcare, Garbage Management, Education and Research and Transportation fees can be adjusted in the devmode tools so the option exist and gives us a lot more flexibility and makes for a far better experience in regards to our budgets. So I sure hope these are going to be in the normal UI sometime soon since they seem to work perfectly fine.
 
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I don't know if you're aware of this thread:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...anagement-in-the-game-is-a-deception.1604434/

But it's essentially a long talk about exactly this issue, with various people having made interesting tests.

Basically: You can more or less ignore the simulation, at least for a large amount of the time, and still get a successful city. Because the game will cover your bases for you where you yourself fail.

It seems if you're into city builders with simulations, this isn't the game. It will do your job for you where you neglect to do it, essentially taking away all the negative consequences that is part of the fun (at least for players who are interested in more than just city painting).

Yeah, I have seen that thread, and I guess that's really my main gripe: I don't see the point of a complex simulation if there is no failure condition. There isn't any problem solving to do, you just place things and the rest happens. You may as well randomize item placement and watch it play itself.

I could see some mods making a difference, like adding the service fees that are in the devtool, or removing the magic government subsidies. As it stands, there is no challenge, and that is such a shame.
 
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Yeah, I have seen that thread, and I guess that's really my main gripe: I don't see the point of a complex simulation if there is no failure condition. There isn't any problem solving to do, you just place things and the rest happens. You may as well randomize item placement and watch it play itself.

I could see some mods making a difference, like adding the service fees that are in the devtool, or removing the magic government subsidies. As it stands, there is no challenge, and that is such a shame.
That is the unfortunate conclusion I've come to myself after giving it a good chance myself. Especially because the game is clearly advertised on Steam as providing a complex simulation that should give you challenges, puzzles to solve, obstacles to adapt to, etc... It's just a completely different picture we're starting to see in the game :/

You end up asking yourself "What's the point of this?". Either the game fixes your problems for you, makes them less transparent, and there are quite a number of bugs in the economy as well which makes you question whether or not what you're seeing is actually correct. All the while having a sense of too much magic or fudging happening to the numbers that you don't know about. I don't know, it feels like a large chunk of the supposed simulation feels too well hidden away to understand it and see it play out.
 
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That is the unfortunate conclusion I've come to myself after giving it a good chance myself. Especially because the game is clearly advertised on Steam as providing a complex simulation that should give you challenges, puzzles to solve, obstacles to adapt to, etc... It's just a completely different picture we're starting to see in the game :/

You end up asking yourself "What's the point of this?". Either the game fixes your problems for you, makes them less transparent, and there are quite a number of bugs in the economy as well which makes you question whether or not what you're seeing is actually correct. All the while having a sense of too much magic or fudging happening to the numbers that you don't know about. I don't know, it feels like a large chunk of the supposed simulation feels too well hidden away to understand it and see it play out.

Or even just knowing why something happens. What formula determines the amount of government subsidy I'm getting? At least I could try to avoid it if I knew that, but in the meantime, I'm getting this subsidy (that I can't shut off) even though my city would be perfectly fine without it and I've got millions in the bank.

The fact that there's a loan option in the first place suggests to me that none of that is intended behavior, but without those details, it's impossible to know what is intentional and what is a bug.
 
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It is so disappointing to see that the garbage exporting is working as intended. Where are the negative consequences? I mean, I guess it's cool from the simulation's perspective that citizens are paying for the garbage exporting...but from my perspective as the player it's just free. I can't see it, I can't adjust it or monitor it in any way, and I experience no negative consequences from ignoring it that I can tell. Shouldn't it effect citizen happiness or something? Is the only effect that citizens have slightly less money? If so, how much less? How can I tell how much impact my trash exports are having so I know I need to do something about it? Maybe there are huge negative consequences to my tax revenue but how would I know?

I was waiting to see if a patch was released to fix the garbage bug but since this seems to be intentional I just submitted my refund request. Maybe I'll purchase again when the game is done.
 
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It is so disappointing to see that the garbage exporting is working as intended. Where are the negative consequences? I mean, I guess it's cool from the simulation's perspective that citizens are paying for the garbage exporting...but from my perspective as the player it's just free. I can't see it, I can't adjust it or monitor it in any way, and I experience no negative consequences from ignoring it that I can tell. Shouldn't it effect citizen happiness or something? Is the only effect that citizens have slightly less money? If so, how much less? How can I tell how much impact my trash exports are having so I know I need to do something about it? Maybe there are huge negative consequences to my tax revenue but how would I know?

I was waiting to see if a patch was released to fix the garbage bug but since this seems to be intentional I just submitted my refund request. Maybe I'll purchase again when the game is done.

It looks like a game-breaking bug because free garbage export eliminates the challenge of the entire mechanic. To say that it is intentional is to say that making the game less challenging was intentional -- and that is not the kind of game we were sold.
 
Btw also don't see any info how many visitors a park gets or a landmark. another feature that was present in CS1 but missing in CS2 as if we are simply not allowed to check if a park or landmark is even of any interest and if people actually visit it since you dont really see people animated in them
 
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But we can decide the ticket and parking fees, right?
We need a more intuitive understanding of the impact when services are outsourced,
Use this to determine where current municipal services should come from.
For players, neighbor processing is a free and powerful feature,and the garbage disposal is bugged.

Some service fees are visible and adjustable by the player and some services are paid by the citizens, like in the case of transportation by paying for the tickets.