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Pbhuh

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With the 1.30 Austrian Update and the Emperor Expansion, a lot of Europe has been updated. But one thing that did seem overlooked was the Merchant Republics in general and especially The Hansa. I think the Hansa and features tied to merchant republics ought to be expanded and updated.

The Hansa

I think we need a new overarching Body for this similar in a way to perhaps the Holy Roman Empire and the Emperor of China.

There needs to be an interaction with and increased powers of the Hansa.

Currently the Hansa works roughly like any other trade league with no distinction in its importance and its member cities, while in reality the Hansa was integrated pretty much everywhere in Northern Europe. So we must create a member system where it lists all members of the Hansa together.

These are the Nations I propose to be part of a Hansa body:

Lübeck, defacto capital and meeting place
Hamburg
Bremen
Lüneburg
Mecklenburg
Stettin, as one of Pomeranian Duchies
Greifswald, as the other Pomeranian Duchy
Magdeburg
Goslar
Verden, as the Archbishopric of Bremen
Brandenburg
Teutonic Order
Livonian Order
Riga
Dortmund
Utrecht
Friesland
Münster

1594782398990.png



These nations won't be in a trade league, rather, these nations will get bonuses as part of being in the hansa. Bonuses I thought made sense were decreased shipbuilding cost and build time, increased trade efficiency, 1 extra merchant and potentially reduced development cost and reduced diplomatic tech cost.

They get to vote on what decisions to take. And the leader of the Hansa, which should be Lübeck, could make decisions. I feel that free cities should get more votes than other types of governments. And Lübeck get the most votes, while other nations get only 1 vote.

So what decisions should they have?

I think first of all an aggresive diplomatic ability. Embargo nation. It would force the entire hanseatic league to embargo a single nation.

Second, ask for contribution. This would force members to donate to a hansa treasury.

Third, spend the Hansa treasury. I think having decisions potentially linked to previous bonuses make sense, such as subsidize shipbuilding, subsidize technological innovations and other things.

Lastly, perhaps there ought to be a way to declare war, maybe on nations who harbor pirates and privateers or nations who threaten the trade or independance of Lübeck.

With these mechanics in place, the hansa could become a very unique mechanic in the game and really project its power. But in contrast it should remove the defensive alliances that are created with the current trade leagues. Its power should be economic and trade, not warfare necessarily.

But things brings us to another point.

The many districts the hansa had in other countries such as London, Bruges, Bergen and Novgorod.

Trading Posts

1594781316109.png


These nations dont really fit in the same category as the other members, but were a big part of the Hansa. And I think they ought to be included in some way, but there is a problem, there exists no mechanic which has a sort of trade post type system where one owns a small trading posts in another countries province.

Thus this should be included in this update. It would be a small trading post increasing trade both ways for the nations involved. The host of the trade company should get some increased trade power but also Lübeck or the Hansa in general.

But why stop there. Having a trade post mechanic can easily be expanded to other areas of the world. Venice and Genoa are good examples. They generally didnt control entire provinces in Crimea for example, but held on to trade posts in the region. With a mechanic like this this nuance can be much better represented.

Factions

1594781870121.png


In my opinion, factions are currently a subpar mechanic versus the strength that Estates now offer. Thus I think it only makes sense to integrate the faction system somehow into the new estate system.

How would it be different though? Well the factions would be retained much the same way as they would function as an estate. Instead of using crownland, perhaps their influence or power in your government should be shown in the piechart instead and crownland owned by the crown should be ignored for the factions.

This way, the mechanic is in many ways similar with the same type of diet system, but also slightly different in the way of how factions currently operate ingame.

Center Of Trades

With the Dharma update we gained access to 3 levels of Centers of Trades.

I think this ought to be expanded as well.

First of all there should be a base center of trade, say level 0 or something. This would signify that the province has POTENTIAL to become a center of trade later when investments are made.

These should most likely be found in places where a center of trade would appear later in the game, primarily in uncolonized places across the world but perhaps also in other places.

Level 0: NO BONUSES - Just Potential for Centers of Trade
Inland: Crossroads
Coastal: Natural Harbor

Level 1: Low Level Bonuses, current level 1 effects
Inland: Emporium
Coastal: Harbor

Level 2: In Between Current Level 1 and Level 2 - would require that your nation has at least 5% trade power in this tradenode, probably something like +7.5 trade power and +5% institution spread
Inland: Market Town
Coastal: Entrepot

Level 3: Current Level 2 - Would require at least 25% trade power in this tradenode
Inland: Regional Market
Coastal: Regional Port

Level 4: Current Level 3 - Would require at least 50% trade power in this tradenode
Inland: World Trade Center
Coastal: World Port

Last Notes


Would this all be added, I think there is potential for a lot of interesting mechanics, while the Hansa mostly faded out after 1500s, by adding this early game institution of power I think there can be a lot of counterplay with Nations across the Baltic and North Sea in how to deal with it and could lead to much more interesting gameplay for the Netherlands and the Kalmar union.

Which brings me to another point, Scandinavia. While I will leave that for another time, I do think if there was an update to come to the Hansa, the added content should also be Scandinavia.
 

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AirikrStrife

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I really like the intention, I have thought a lot about an updated hansa system, and especially after emperor which made 2pms of several erstwhile OPMs that was in the hansa (Lüneburg, Magdeburg)

I think the mechanic you propose maybe makes for too much of a effort for what is not necessarily that much gain. My current idea has been to change the trade league mechanic to something similar to to tributaries.

Basically Merchant republics (or states with that mechanic) can make members (these works as a sort of loose vassal, similar to tributaries)

Then there are a set of interactions, and benefits from doing that.

becoming a member in a trade league already give certain effects that wouldn't be needed to be changed,

  • The trade league leader gets an automatic “Trade Dispute” casus belli on any countries they would be able to generate such a casus belli on via spy action.
  • The trade league leader gets 50% Trade power.png trade power from all the league members.
  • The trade league leader gets a +2.5% bonus to Trade steering.png trade steering for each member in the league.
  • All members get a +20 Icon diplomacy relations.png relations bonus with all other members.
  • All members except the trade league leader get a +0.5% Goods produced modifier.png goods produced modifier for each percentage of trade power in the local trade node controlled by the trade league leader.
  • All members get a +20% bonus to their Ship trade power.png ship trade power.


giving them increased trade efficiency would I believe actually be bad as they're then more of a competition to the leader themselves, goods produced would directly translate to income AND increase the total trade value produced (merchant republics already give that bonus to all provinces in their trade nodes though. As you can see from the mechanic they actually take trade power from the league.

What making the members a "subject" have the benefit of making them all pop up in the subject window and from there a set of interactions can be designed, such as providing military support, easier to steer embargoes etc.


The difference between a league member and a real subject is obviously that a league member can have their own alliances and wars.

The change to current trade league as mass alliance change is that instead of automatically being dragged into defensive wars, all members of the league now get to choose like it's normal alliances, both for offensive and defensive wars,

So for example if denmark declares on Lübeck, all hansa members gets a call to arms and can decline if they so choose (although it should be generally unlikely, as defensive league wars should have an added positive modifier)

Same thing doing an offensive war, the league leader sees all it's members in the DOW screen and can choose to call them into wars, without paying favor, there should be an added chance of accepting if the cause of war is trade related.

This way we get historical set up when parts of the hansa went to war together and other parts didn't.


There would be no province limit for league members, but countries will be less likely to joing, or morel ikely to leave if they have more than two provinces.



On your other matters, I don't see the need for a change in the trade center mechanic, but changing the name of uncolonized emporiums to crossroads sounds good.

I agree that we need a rework of factions, currently there are very few tags using factions and in general that is a negative effect, on the other hand there are many tags (such as switzerland) there estates doesn't really make sense and would be better replaced with faction.

I think the idea of trade posts in foreign countries are good, in general I guess the mechanic that trade leagues give increased goods produced in provicnes in the trade node covers that to an extent.
 
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Pbhuh

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I really like the intention, I have thought a lot about an updated hansa system, and especially after emperor which made 2pms of several erstwhile OPMs that was in the hansa (Lüneburg, Magdeburg)

I think the mechanic you propose maybe makes for too much of a effort for what is not necessarily that much gain. My current idea has been to change the trade league mechanic to something similar to to tributaries.

Basically Merchant republics (or states with that mechanic) can make members (these works as a sort of loose vassal, similar to tributaries)

Then there are a set of interactions, and benefits from doing that.

becoming a member in a trade league already give certain effects that wouldn't be needed to be changed,

  • The trade league leader gets an automatic “Trade Dispute” casus belli on any countries they would be able to generate such a casus belli on via spy action.
  • The trade league leader gets 50% Trade power.png trade power from all the league members.
  • The trade league leader gets a +2.5% bonus to Trade steering.png trade steering for each member in the league.
  • All members get a +20 Icon diplomacy relations.png relations bonus with all other members.
  • All members except the trade league leader get a +0.5% Goods produced modifier.png goods produced modifier for each percentage of trade power in the local trade node controlled by the trade league leader.
  • All members get a +20% bonus to their Ship trade power.png ship trade power.


giving them increased trade efficiency would I believe actually be bad as they're then more of a competition to the leader themselves, goods produced would directly translate to income AND increase the total trade value produced (merchant republics already give that bonus to all provinces in their trade nodes though. As you can see from the mechanic they actually take trade power from the league.

What making the members a "subject" have the benefit of making them all pop up in the subject window and from there a set of interactions can be designed, such as providing military support, easier to steer embargoes etc.


The difference between a league member and a real subject is obviously that a league member can have their own alliances and wars.

The change to current trade league as mass alliance change is that instead of automatically being dragged into defensive wars, all members of the league now get to choose like it's normal alliances, both for offensive and defensive wars,

So for example if denmark declares on Lübeck, all hansa members gets a call to arms and can decline if they so choose (although it should be generally unlikely, as defensive league wars should have an added positive modifier)

Same thing doing an offensive war, the league leader sees all it's members in the DOW screen and can choose to call them into wars, without paying favor, there should be an added chance of accepting if the cause of war is trade related.

This way we get historical set up when parts of the hansa went to war together and other parts didn't.


There would be no province limit for league members, but countries will be less likely to joing, or morel ikely to leave if they have more than two provinces.



On your other matters, I don't see the need for a change in the trade center mechanic, but changing the name of uncolonized emporiums to crossroads sounds good.

I agree that we need a rework of factions, currently there are very few tags using factions and in general that is a negative effect, on the other hand there are many tags (such as switzerland) there estates doesn't really make sense and would be better replaced with faction.

I think the idea of trade posts in foreign countries are good, in general I guess the mechanic that trade leagues give increased goods produced in provicnes in the trade node covers that to an extent.

One thing I dislike about trade leagues is that they serve as a sort of defensive/offensive league and would not necesarily represent things like the hansa. While it works maybe for things like Venice, but thats debatable, the Hansa needs to be big but shouldnt be just the Leader getting bonuses, the Hansa was very lucrative for its members as well, hence I think the only way to accomplish it is by making it a distinct entity.

The Trade Center stuff is really there to expand the growth of a center of trade, instead of just getting one for free, allowing for more across the world as there are plenty of places that first had to grow first. Allowing for a level 0 where you get no benefits but the potential to upgrade really gives the player options.

It also allows for more nuance, now all level 1 center of trades are the same, all level 2 are the same all level 3, there is very little to show how much more valuable certain trade centers were.

Given this, a negative event lowering your center of trade by 1 could also be much better justified, Bruges is a good example.

It was the biggest center of trade in 1444 (not amsterdam, ugh, they really gotta nerf amsterdam to level 1 or even 0). But it faced issues with its inlet to the sea being silted up, after which Antwerp took its place and after that got sacked by the Spanish and subsequent 80 years war of Dutch Independance, all trade moved to Amsterdam.
 
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AirikrStrife

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One thing I dislike about trade leagues is that they serve as a sort of defensive/offensive league and would not necesarily represent things like the hansa. While it works maybe for things like Venice, but thats debatable, the Hansa needs to be big but shouldnt be just the Leader getting bonuses, the Hansa was very lucrative for its members as well, hence I think the only way to accomplish it is by making it a distinct entity.


The members are getting bonuses, but I think they appear invisible to players mostly, also because it's very little reason to actually play as a OPM staying in a trade league for very long, I've only been in trade leagues briefly as albania (before emperor) to gain more allies against ottos, or as rhodes with venice, or early set up for dithmarschen, but since trade leagues are discarded once you get a second province, unless wanting to pplay tall OPM vassal game there is no reason to ever stay in a trade league for long.

Even playing as the leader, having 5 OPM's in your league can also quickly become a minor thing once you start to expand, as OPM's will obviously be limited in how much they can bring in.

Secondly, there is the issue with the linearity of trade which even devs recently admitted were archaic and problematic, but still not having any plans for changing it. Giving trade power to members is actually not the best option for the league leader.

My solution is mostly about making the league more dynamic, and have the added benefit of having league members pop up in the subject screen allowing for some interactions to be able to happen. This could help facilitate some more coordinated gameplay, such as league members being payed to steer trade for the league leaders benefit, etc
 
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