Minor countries unplayable?

[Even Steven]

From my experience minor countries like Sweden and Finland are much harder to play in HoI 3. I dont want to sit and wait for ten years before I can declare war on another country.

I tried playing Finland and I had to use all of my Ic on supplies and it still weren't enough. Whats the point of having over 150 playable countries when theres only about 10 you can really do something with?

 

[Obermotz]

Please take a look at the AAR section and behold some quite sucessful attempts with hungary, finland and the like...

 

[finyou2]

Put noneutrality to your console and declare wars as much as you want...

 

[imre]

You can do many things like research some things and watch what happens in the world around you.. It is totally playable, just without war.

If you had less military then you shouldn't spend all your IC on supplies. Waging war is not a cheap business anyway. Also, recheck you have your best leaders at armygroup level and every logistics wizard empolyed. As Sweden has decent navy then of course add your navy (and air units too) under AG. This alone gives a considerable savings on supplies/fuel.

But if you want to wage war then why choose the neutral countries? If paradox wanted to help the historical outcome (i imagine they did to soothe the history-book players), then they probably found a way to keep Sweden and Swiss to be "more neutral" to avoid them running to a faction. Just a guess though. With long enough threat-rising and neutrality lowering (all the time from 36) you should still be able to get to war before the game ends..

 

[SuiciSpai]

Its more playable now than hoi 2. You can research what you like and dont depend on your research teams. If you want to declare war in 1940, join axis and set spyes to lower neutrality.

I played with argentina, brasil, rep spain, nat spain and some more... and in 1941 have around 100 IC and in 1943 around 200 IC . The problem is the leadership.. but you know, you buy the planes and the tanks to germany//urss, and you only reserarch doctrines, infantery and destroyers/aircarriers.

Anyway, nordic countries are harder.. germany at south and the urss at east, no neighbours-countries to invade in 1941!

 

[Panncakemouse]

Use spies to lower your neutrality and rais threat of whoever you want to wage war with.
in 1939 you can create the Nordic Empire

 

[menasure]

i'm not a programmer but i managed to incorporate neutrality lowering and threat lines in the laws once. my idea was that ideology is not the real threat for world peace but the actions whatever government takes.
i'd like to see the same happening for spy actions (why does the game assume that it's always a bunch of harmless hippies dedicated to world peace which you just caught???)
i'm still hoping that someone with better IT skills starts a 'minor/medium' countries mod one of these days to solve some of the particular problems minors face (like neutrality vs threat, IC vs productioncosts, oob's and leadership) without taking a complete alice in wonderland approach. the hidden agenda behind 'peaceful' politics kind of thing or something like that.
sure you can use cheats and set everyone to 0 neutrality in the blink of an eye but that's not really the same imo.

 

[General War]

On the contrary, I found minor states very playable. I had great fun with Rep. Spain. After wining the civil war, I fought a number of local wars which lead me all the way to South Africa and Caribbean. My Yugoslavia game was also very enjoyable.

In a way, playing the minors can be even more rewarding than majors. You have a chance to raise a country beyond its limitations, turn it to a local superpower and even challenge the big guys.

 

[menasure]

On the contrary, I found minor states very playable. I had great fun with Rep. Spain. After wining the civil war, I fought a number of local wars which lead me all the way to South Africa and Caribbean. My Yugoslavia game was also very enjoyable.

In a way, playing the minors can be even more rewarding than majors. You have a chance to raise a country beyond its limitations, turn it to a local superpower and even challenge the big guys.

the problem is that such things become much more unlikely after the 1.3 patch. you can't really lower you neutrality fast enough when your spies only generate a fraction of the threat they used to generate.

 

[General War]

the problem is that such things become much more unlikely after the 1.3 patch. you can't really lower you neutrality fast enough when your spies only generate a fraction of the threat they used to generate.

Unfortunately, you are right, at least according to what the readme says. I haven't played 1.3 long enough to test it so I don't know for sure.

 

[KungMarkatta]

From my experience minor countries like Sweden and Finland are much harder to play in HoI 3. I dont want to sit and wait for ten years before I can declare war on another country.

I tried playing Finland and I had to use all of my Ic on supplies and it still weren't enough. Whats the point of having over 150 playable countries when theres only about 10 you can really do something with?

I hear ya. In general the Leadership is far too low for countries like Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark etc. There is also deterministic residue left over from HOI2. Like - Finland have great officers because IRL they fought several years vs USSR. But Norways and Swedens leaders all suck because they did not fight that long or at all. Ofc there should be differences, and Finland might have the best officers - but all countries should have the potential of being great.

Like - if Finland had not entered the war - do you still think they would have 3 "max_skill = 9" officers?

Leadership should also be revamped for minors imo. I will just list my suggestions for the nordic countries here - on the top of my head:

Sweden: They have 3,1 - they should have around 6
Norway: They have 2,8 - they should have around 4
Finland: They have 2,9 - they should have around 4
Denmark: They have 2,9 - they should have around 4
Czechoslovakia: They have 3,1 - they should have around 7.
Poland: they have 5,7 - they should have around 8.
Estonia: They have 2,4 - so you can compare.
Italy: They have 11,0 - so you can compare.

Remember: 10 leadership is MORE than twice as good as 5 leadership. You get more discoveries faster (more IC, Supplies, and more research XP etc).

Just a few quick thoughts...

 

[vertinox]

From my experience minor countries like Sweden and Finland are much harder to play in HoI 3. I dont want to sit and wait for ten years before I can declare war on another country.

I tried playing Finland and I had to use all of my Ic on supplies and it still weren't enough. Whats the point of having over 150 playable countries when theres only about 10 you can really do something with?

I don't think minors are suppose to declare war on nations that are larger than them.

It might be plausible that Finland could attack Sweeden and anex them, but they aren't going to beat the Soviets in anything other than a stalemate fight nor should they.

The best any minor can hope for is to join an alliance and use that weight to defeat other smaller nations like itself or grabbing territory while the major takes the brunt of the war.

 

[peterhoi3]

From my experience minor countries like Sweden and Finland are much harder to play in HoI 3. I dont want to sit and wait for ten years before I can declare war on another country.

I tried playing Finland and I had to use all of my Ic on supplies and it still weren't enough. Whats the point of having over 150 playable countries when theres only about 10 you can really do something with?

The point is that minor countries are minor countries. You can´t play Finland and expect to conquer Scandinavia. In any case you can always edit the necessary files to reduce your neutrality and you are done.

 

[unity100]

Sweden: They have 3,1 - they should have around 6
Norway: They have 2,8 - they should have around 4
Finland: They have 2,9 - they should have around 4
Denmark: They have 2,9 - they should have around 4
Czechoslovakia: They have 3,1 - they should have around 7.
Poland: they have 5,7 - they should have around 8.
Estonia: They have 2,4 - so you can compare.
Italy: They have 11,0 - so you can compare.

Remember: 10 leadership is MORE than twice as good as 5 leadership. You get more discoveries faster (more IC, Supplies, and more research XP etc).

Just a few quick thoughts...

arent those numbers a bit overboard ?

sweden, norway didnt fought any wars since napoleonic wars ?
poland sucked grandly since end of 17th century ?
what did czechoslovakia do to deserve that high leadership ?

on the other hand italy's leadership seems a bit way too overvalued. for actually they sucked grandly in north africa, necessitating a german intervention. also i think italian people didnt want any wars or adventure.

 

[Razor]

Talking about Sweden I think it's IC and leadership is realistic enough for me. I manage to get 1940 infantry and 1942 agriculture by 1939 for instance. I do have some complains on manpower though.

 

[KungMarkatta]

arent those numbers a bit overboard ?

sweden, norway didnt fought any wars since napoleonic wars ?
poland sucked grandly since end of 17th century ?
what did czechoslovakia do to deserve that high leadership ?

on the other hand italy's leadership seems a bit way too overvalued. for actually they sucked grandly in north africa, necessitating a german intervention. also i think italian people didnt want any wars or adventure.

They might be a bit high, I did them several months ago when LS to Officer-ratio were very low.

You have to think about what LS is actually representing. Its the combined potential of diplomacy/science/industry/officers/spies. And I also strongly must say again that 4 leadership is more than twice as good as 2.

Lets take Sweden as an example (and I only mean when played by a human):

With 3,72 LS (highest education) your starting setup will be something like:

Tech: 2.0
Spies: 1.62 (to get 10 internal spies)
Dip: 0.10
Off: 0

After a few month you shift to this:

Tech: 3.62
Spies: 0.0
Dip: 0.10
Off: 0

And around 1939/1940 you shift to something like this:

Tech: 2.0
Spies: 0.0
Dip: 0.10
Off: 1.62

You can appr. get one tech finished each 6-9 month for each point invested in tech.

1936: 4 techs
1937: 6 techs
1938: 6 techs
1939: 5 techs

You need at least 6 industry techs... and as many on the INF tab... maybe one or two on the theory tab... and a few doctrines... then its over

Realistic? Perhaps... hard to tell... fun for a human playing a minor? I dont think so... Minors start with below 1918 tech everywhere with a few exceptions. With a small increase in LS a few minor nations could actually get som flavour.

My point is that increasing the minor countries LS is not unbalancing the game in anyway. All it does is increasing the fun-factor of playing one of these countries.

 

[KungMarkatta]

Talking about Sweden I think it's IC and leadership is realistic enough for me. I manage to get 1940 infantry and 1942 agriculture by 1939 for instance. I do have some complains on manpower though.

Wow even now with the increased penalty of researching ahead? And what kind of doctrines do you have to go with those infantry?

 

[tambov_wolf]

sweden, norway didnt fought any wars since napoleonic wars ?
poland sucked grandly since end of 17th century ?
what did czechoslovakia do to deserve that high leadership ?

Up until September 1st 1939 a lot of military experts if not majority of them thought Polish army was better than Russian.

Czechs were huge in military industry, especially small arms, but also AC and ARM. In Pz-38(t) identification (t) stands for "Czech" (even it's not that obvious).

P.S. That's actually a good idea to decline Munich agreement and see if Czechs can put up a fight with Germans.

 

[unity100]

Up until September 1st 1939 a lot of military experts if not majority of them thought Polish army was better than Russian.

Czechs were huge in military industry, especially small arms, but also AC and ARM. In Pz-38(t) identification (t) stands for "Czech" (even it's not that obvious).

yea i know about the success of pz38, however remember pzl11s were considered the best aircraft briefly when they were produced in poland back in 1930s too. by at the outset of the war they were way too obsolete.

granted pz38 wasnt obsolete 1-1.5 years into the war, but, does producing good small arms and one notable type of major war vehicle count as good leadership ? just like in your polish example ?

 

[Razor]

Wow even now with the increased penalty of researching ahead? And what kind of doctrines do you have to go with those infantry?

I research two of the infantry and artillery related techs under the "Land" tech tab (Infantry warfare and Assault Concentration) up to 1940 level giving me some 45% Org. Othervice nothing relating to doctrines. I concentrate to get as much org, defence and attack capabillities as possible so I can withstand a German attack.

I think one key is to research also the Education tech and to enact the "Large education investment" law as soon as possible.

At average I can research more then 3.5 projects simultanuously from 1/1/36 to start of war. I spend a little leadership points on diplomacy and intel only during the first year or even less.